Bill James blasts current day baseball statisticians

[jung]

https://nypost.com/2024/07/02/sports...hread%20on%20X.

I agree Bill. But you started this mess and you even engaged in minutia first.

[cp176]

There really is something about "too much information" leads to "paralysis analysis" on occasion. Ask the greatest hitters of all time what studying advanced metrics or whatever did for them, this is what you might get. The Tony Perez secret to hitting - I see the ball, I hit the ball.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not really clear what these "large-scale issues" Bill is referring to are supposed to be.

[Bellhorn04]

Bill is sounding kind of bitter these days. He made a crack in spring training about the Red Sox roster, saying they only needed to upgrade about 18-19 spots or something like that.

[jung]

Bill is sounding kind of bitter these days. He made a crack in spring training about the Red Sox roster, saying they only needed to upgrade about 18-19 spots or something like that.

Bill's comments regarding advanced stats have nothing specifically to do with the Red Sox.

His comments are about how far flung and contrary to the good of the game all this statistical nonsense has become. Players have been ground down to a nominal standard that discounts aspect of the game that are actually at the heart of the popularity of the game.....AND.....MLB's insistence on trying to use them to expand the game's popularity have been a giant FAIL. If you like spread sheets and minutia you are happy. If you like the game itself.....not so much. But we can use the Red Sox as an exhibit for the issues.

As for this constant insistence on lifting the ball, Duran has 10 HR's, Rafiela has 9, Wong has 7. We have two legitimate HR threats on the current roster and not on the IL. Those would be Rafi and O'Neal. The rest are still swinging for the fences with occasional success. Yoshida has warning track power but he is still swinging like its going over the fence. Duran is less effects than Rafaela who is a JOKE in this regard.

Oh and the way the stat masters have screwed up pitching is even worse. Our Sox staff is running out of gas at the start of July.....not that they can go deeper than 5-6 innings. They can go 5-6 innings to the end of June. Cora trying to find ways to extend rest between starts.

[notin]

Bill's comments regarding advanced stats have nothing specifically to do with the Red Sox.

His comments are about how far flung and contrary to the good of the game all this statistical nonsense has become. Players have been ground down to a nominal standard that discounts aspect of the game that are actually at the heart of the popularity of the game.....AND.....MLB's insistence on trying to use them to expand the game's popularity have been a giant FAIL. If you like spread sheets and minutia you are happy. If you like the game itself.....not so much. But we can use the Red Sox as an exhibit for the issues.

As for this constant insistence on lifting the ball, Duran has 10 HR's, Rafiela has 9, Wong has 7. We have two legitimate HR threats on the current roster and not on the IL. Those would be Rafi and O'Neal. The rest are still swinging for the fences with occasional success. Yoshida has warning track power but he is still swinging like its going over the fence. Duran is less effects than Rafaela who is a JOKE in this regard.

Oh and the way the stat masters have screwed up pitching is even worse. Our Sox staff is running out of gas at the start of July.....not that they can go deeper than 5-6 innings. They can go 5-6 innings to the end of June. Cora trying to find ways to extend rest between starts.

Lifting the ball isn’t a new concept, and it doesn’t become one just because someone coined the phrase “launch angle.” Ted Williams recognized it as the root cause of productive hitting over three quarters of a century ago, and he probably wasn’t the first to do so.

The best strategy for running a team is “hit it in the air, but keep it on the ground.” A lot of metrics are just massive expansions of this simple principle. Now I would agree that some hitters should try to keep that launch angle under 30 degrees, and get back to the disappearing art of being a line drive hitter.

I do think a lot of metric stuff is mis-cited. For example, many think sabermetrics frown on bunting. Not true. They frown on sacrifice bunting. But if you can bunt for a base hit, that’s a different matter…

[Dipre]

Managers have been applying these simplified principles for years.

Earl Weaver spent his entire managerial career advocating for OBP+Power for his lineup, and K's+Ground Balls for his pitchers. "We hit out of the park, and don't let the other team hit it out of the park" was his idea. We just know the intricacies of these concepts nowadays.

[jung]

Lifting the ball isn’t a new concept, and it doesn’t become one just because someone coined the phrase “launch angle.” Ted Williams recognized it as the root cause of productive hitting over three quarters of a century ago, and he probably wasn’t the first to do so.

The best strategy for running a team is “hit it in the air, but keep it on the ground.” A lot of metrics are just massive expansions of this simple principle. Now I would agree that some hitters should try to keep that launch angle under 30 degrees, and get back to the disappearing art of being a line drive hitter.

I do think a lot of metric stuff is mis-cited. For example, many think sabermetrics frown on bunting. Not true. They frown on sacrifice bunting. But if you can bunt for a base hit, that’s a different matter…

Again using the Sox as an example....Ted Willians had actual power like Rafi and like O'Neal. Duran does not, Yoshida does not, Rafaela is a Joke in this regard as is Wong.

Our speedsters would do much more good for this team getting on base and disrupting the other team's pitcher than hitting one run home runs.

This Red Sox edition is mightily helped by the reality that MLB is chock full of crap teams.

[jung]

Managers have been applying these simplified principles for years.

Earl Weaver spent his entire managerial career advocating for OBP+Power for his lineup, and K's+Ground Balls for his pitchers. "We hit out of the park, and don't let the other team hit it out of the park" was his idea. We just know the intricacies of these concepts nowadays.

But he did not have Mark Beleaguer swinging for the fences.

Weaver favored 3 run HR's. Ya' gotta have two on to hit a 3 run HR.

[Maxbialystock]

Again using the Sox as an example....Ted Willians had actual power like Rafi and like O'Neal. Duran does not, Yoshida does not, Rafaela is a Joke in this regard as is Wong.

Our speedsters would do much more good for this team getting on base and disrupting the other team's pitcher than hitting one run home runs.

This Red Sox edition is mightily helped by the reality that MLB is chock full of crap teams.

Oh stop it. Just stop it. I freely grant this 2024 Sox team is riddled with imperfections, but you have jumped into the deep end without your water wings.

This team, which you have grossly misjudged, is playing good ball despite a frightening bad infield defense, a no-name rotation, an almost no-name lineup (Devers is well known), and a bullpen that in the recent Miami series looked awful. Fortunately Crawford, Bello, and Pivetta all had terrific starts.

You appear to be completely unaware that these no-name Sox are succeeding in part because they have the best manager in MLB and one of the best pitching coaches.

[notin]

Again using the Sox as an example....Ted Willians had actual power like Rafi and like O'Neal. Duran does not, Yoshida does not, Rafaela is a Joke in this regard as is Wong.

Our speedsters would do much more good for this team getting on base and disrupting the other team's pitcher than hitting one run home runs.

This Red Sox edition is mightily helped by the reality that MLB is chock full of crap teams.

Right. They need to stop being so efficient and scoring and stuff. Why score runs when you can irritate the opposing pitcher…

[Dipre]

But he did not have Mark Beleaguer swinging for the fences.

Weaver favored 3 run HR's. Ya' gotta have two on to hit a 3 run HR.

Did I not clearly state in my post "OBP+power"?