Of course I know that. You don't help your argument by saying stupid stuff like that.Originally Posted by notin
Of course I know that. You don't help your argument by saying stupid stuff like that.
Old school is good school.
That’s what happens with zero moderation.
There are other Sox chat forums out there where that type of conversation is kept in check and threads stay on subject.
Not saying one is better than the other, just what is.
The 2019 relief pitching was a big reason for the disappointing season. To say that it was better than the 2018 bullpen is so preposterous that I am just going to attribute that to you being a contrarian. No objective observer would ever make that statement. I don't need to rehash all of the details of the blown save rule. A blown save is not a good thing. Everyone knows that. And I certainly did say that injuries and under performance from the rotation was also a factor. End of discussion.
Old school is good school.
I agreed with the rotation stuff. I felt it was understated.
And sorry, the 2019 bullpen was better than the 2018. And blown saves are irrelevant towards that, as shown. Sure they were not as good at closer in 2019, but the closer is only one of 8 guys in the bullpen. Saying the bullpen is worse because of the closer is like saying the 2019 lineup is better because Brock Holt was an upgrade over Eduardo Nunez/Ian Kinsler…
He’s NN Notin🤭🙈.
Does Dombrowski count as an objective observer? Because at the trade deadline that year, he added a starter, not a reliever. Cashner did become a massive flop after starting 6 games with an ERA over 8.00 and was eventually moved to the bullpen. But if the bullpen was the obvious problem, why didn’t he add a reliever?
and even worse is that a relief pitcher truly can blow a save in the top of the 9th and then get credit for the win if his team comes back in the bottom of the 9th. now THAT is fucking stupid.
Not a good analogy. Here is a better one. Saying the bullpen was better except for the closer is like saying my new car is better except for the engine. As a fan of Dombrowski, I have always criticized him for neglecting the bullpen in 2019. Both before the season, during the season and at the deadline.
Old school is good school.
My favorite complaint by a pitcher is when he throws a ball away, an unearned run scores, and he says he lost on a day when he had a good ERA...
... as if fielding your position isn't part of playing "pitcher" (if a run scores because of the pitcher, it should count as earned -- if the opposition makes him so nervous that he gags, didn't they earn that run against him?).
In the movie Moneyball there is a scene near the end in which Billy Beane goes to Boston and Fenway Park to meet with John Henry, who raves about how little the A's paid (in team payroll) for each win in 2022 compared to how much the Yankees paid. He also praises sabermetrics, Bill Henry, whom he hired, and the great job Billy Beane did with the A's that season. Then JH hands Beane an offer to become the highest paid GM in MLB, which Beane later declines.
What we now know is that, while JH liked the notion of low-cost wins, his brain trust, including Theo Epstein, always seemed to be able to make a good case for acquiring excellent players who didn't come cheap. As a result, the Sox under JH not only ended the 86 year drought/curse, but won 3 more WS. Those 4 WS wins are the most by any MLB team, 2003-2023, and pretty strong evidence that John Henry is not as you describe him. Interestingly, three of the WS wins--2004, 2013, and 2018--all happened in part because JH or his brain trust decided to fire the manager and hire a new one. Francona, Farrell, and Cora all won the WS in their first seasons as the Sox manager.
I think what happened in 2019 was the John Henry, having won 4 WS, finally decided to try the route/methodology described in the movie Moneyball. And, while there is some evidence that DD had done something like that with the Florida Marlins, by 2015, when he was hired by JH, he had morphed into a CBO who who had a terrific eye for talent and and no fear in making deals to get it. Thus it was no accident that the 2018 and 2019 Boston Red Sox payrolls were both the highest in MLB.
To give DD his due, he has been been an effective, successful GM/CBO for 36 years and with 5 different teams and is currently doing a heckuva job with the Phillies. He won one WS with the Marlins in 1997 and one with the Sox in 2018. He led Detroit to the 2006 WS, which they lost to the Cardinals and the Phillies to the 2022 WS, which they lost to the Astros.
Nevertheless, it's clear JH wants to try a different direction, if only because pitchers especially are a huge gamble whose salaries are always guaranteed but never their performance. On the other hand, the Sox pitchers with the three best WAR's right now--Houck (3.4), Crawford (1.6), and Bernardino (1.6)--are all paid the minimum MLB salary.
Also Detroit to the 2012 WS, which they lost to the Giants.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
LOL....good point.
there is no doubt Henry has made some brilliant moves since he took over, but as you pointed out, he decided to take a different route after 2019. i think that route is due to his ego, greed and incredibly poor front office decisions have made this team into a perennial cellar dweller.
At least he names the posters.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
I think ego and greed have little to do with Henry's decision to take a different direction for the Red Sox. Rather I think it was an un emotional corporate decision made by Henry and his business partners which they think is in the best long term interests of FSG.
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