Trades?

[moonslav59]

Finally you agree with me. I've been saying that for a month--that DD was about to break the bank at monte carlo--and that's why JH dumped him.

DD almost traded Betts, so there is some evidence he was doing what JH wanted, probably not liking it. He did not replace K and K, which is more evidence he might have been willing to stick around through the massive cuts, but I don’t think he liked it, at all.

To me, that was a source of friction. DD was not “about to break the bank,” because JH writes the checks.

IMO, DD would not have liked being the GM in 2020, and JH did not view DD as the type of GM with an expertise of building winners with cheap budgets and no serious farm infusions for a 5 year period.

That’s when JH decided to go for a GM that was thought to be good at building winners on low budgets.

I’m not sure what you mean by “finally” seeing it your way. This has been my opinion for over5 years and seems to differ a bit from yours.

I do not think DD would have spent more than bloom did, because JH would never have let him. JH actually started restricting spending shortly after the Sale and Bogey extensions and Nate re-up deal.

[notin]

Sox relief pitching: 2018- 46 saves. 20 blown saves. 2019: 33 saves. 31 blown saves. From a plus 26 to a plus 2. As usual, I will supply the facts. You will supply the spin and the " context" (aka excuses)

Also,

2018: Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi combined for 579 IP
2019: Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi combined for 497 IP

That’s a lot to ask the bullpen to make up…

[dgalehouse]

A few more facts,

2019 bullpen: 665 IP, 4.14 FIP/4.40 ERA, 10.5K/9, 5.6 fWAR
2018 bullpen: 561 IP, 3.90 FIP/3.72 ERA, 9.6K/9, 4.1 fWAR

“Spin” is looking at saves and blown saves and pretending it measures bullpen performance…

Saves and blown saves is an indication of games won and games lost. That is what matters the most. ERA is a gauge of effectiveness. I honestly don't know what fWAR . is. Nor do I care. But if you can save fewer games and blow more saves and have a higher ERA, and still wind up with a better fWAR , then I would have to question it's worth.

[****THEYANKEES]

"Falling in the standings" - sure, let's make it sound more dramatic than it really was. It was one bad season, no more, no less. And not as bad as some other Red Sox seasons Henry has been witnessing.

DD had inked Bogaerts to an extension through 2022, so that's wrong too.

no shit. and lets not forget DD had just led the Sox to three straight AL East titles for the FIRST TIME in history AND a WOrld Series Championship in 2018. one off year and you fire the guy. unfuckingreal. like you said, i think he's the most mercurial, egotistical POS owner since Frankensteinbrenner.

[notin]

Saves and blown saves is an indication of games won and games lost. That is what matters the most. ERA is a gauge of effectiveness. I honestly don't know what fWAR . is. Nor do I care. But if you can save fewer games and blow more saves and have a higher ERA, and still wind up with a better fWAR , then I would have to question it's worth.

Saves are wins but blown saves are kind of meaningless. First of all, they’re not necessarily losses. Second, you can get multiple blown saves in a game. And really, a relief pitcher can be effective but still get a blown save, thanks to inherited runners. Not to mention, a pitcher can be credited with a blown save in almost any inning and didn’t need to give up an earned run to get one. Ryan Brasier was credited with a blown save in the fifth inning when he was in Boston. How is that indicative of a win or a loss?

The reason that fWAR was better was the similar FIP (unless you like blaming pitchers for weak defense) over the 100+ more innings pitched. That’s a huge chunk of innings, and a big reason the 2019 team didn’t do as well. The starters were more of a problem than the bullpen that year…

[moonslav59]

Saves and blown saves is an indication of games won and games lost. That is what matters the most. ERA is a gauge of effectiveness. I honestly don't know what fWAR . is. Nor do I care. But if you can save fewer games and blow more saves and have a higher ERA, and still wind up with a better fWAR , then I would have to question it's worth.

You mention WAR a lot, for someone who doesn’t care.

In short, IP is a big factor in the total value of a pitcher or pen, as it should have value.

[Hugh2]

Also,

2018: Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi combined for 579 IP
2019: Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi combined for 497 IP

That’s a lot to ask the bullpen to make up…

It’s pretty well known that a taxed bullpen is a less effective bullpen. And I think everyone in here would agree with that. Of course a good bullpen is also reliant on…..well a good bullpen.

[notin]

You mention WAR a lot, for someone who doesn’t care.

In short, IP is a big factor in the total value of a pitcher or pen, as it should have value.

There’s also a reasonable chance dgalehouse thinks all blown saves occur in the ninth inning. And are losses…

[Hugh2]

There’s also a reasonable chance dgalehouse thinks all blown saves occur in the ninth inning. And are losses…

Many blown saves do turn into wins, and involve relief innings where pitchers performed well.

There’s also high leverage relief situation in innings where you don’t have the lead.

All stats on their own are incomplete, and can’t tell you everything.

[Bellhorn04]

The stupidest thing about blown saves is that they include inherited runners. If you come in with a 1 run lead, bases loaded and no outs and retire the side allowing one run to score, you're credited with:

-A scoreless inning.
-(Anecdotally) a great job.
-A blown save.

[notin]

The stupidest thing about blown saves is that they include inherited runners. If you come in with a 1 run lead, bases loaded and no outs and retire the side allowing one run to score, you're credited with:

-A scoreless inning.
-(Anecdotally) a great job.
-A blown save.

There are so many situational examples of why blown saves carry the appropriate abbreviation of BS.

And even saves themselves are corrupted, because any pitcher who pitches the last 3 innings of a game without blowing a lead of any size is credited with a save…

[Hugh2]

The stupidest thing about blown saves is that they include inherited runners. If you come in with a 1 run lead, bases loaded and no outs and retire the side allowing one run to score, you're credited with:

-A scoreless inning.
-(Anecdotally) a great job.
-A blown save.

You can kind of make the argument that a blown save is a team stat

[Randy Red Sox]

how did we get to blown saves on this thread?

[Bellhorn04]

how did we get to blown saves on this thread?

All our threads eventually become catchall threads.

[notin]

Many blown saves do turn into wins, and involve relief innings where pitchers performed well.

There’s also high leverage relief situation in innings where you don’t have the lead.

All stats on their own are incomplete, and can’t tell you everything.

I went thru the game logs for the 2019 bullpen.

I found 29 of their blown saves. Their record in those 29 games - 13 wins 16 losses.

Granted, I never went thru to see if any games had multiple blown saves. That’s too much to ask.

But with that bullpen, a blown save is not an indicator of a loss…