Trades?

[notin]

Well that’s precisely my point. I think you need to evaluate players and have convictions and stick to them. Maybe you like Yama and go over the cap for him but you miss out. You don’t just go over and sign Snell because you had the money to do so if you don’t like him long term.

Was pitching a need? Yes, but I think you blame the strategy over a long term horizon than one given offseason. Pitching was a need not because they didn’t invest this past offseason but rather because of the 6 years of decision making and roster construction leading up.

If you look to over correct in one offseason by just throwing money around you could dig a hole!!!!

Think of it this way.

How excited would some be if the Sox signed both Snell and Montgomery back in March?

Sure, there’d be some detractors, and those complaining about the money but nobody would think the rotation wouldn’t be improved. But we’d be so much worse off right now, and way over the cap.

Appropriately timed example, because according to Lou Merloni, this is essentially how the Padres got Bogaerts. Apparently he was not their prime target, but Trea Turner was. However, Turner’s wife is from Philadelphia, and after they offered him $400mill, Turner all but begged the Padres not to counter. The Padres took their unspent capital and then offered the bulk of it to Bogaerts.

So, this does happen….

[Hugh2]

And of course we always cherry pick the examples that suit our bias. There are other starting pitcher signings that are doing well.

But yes, every pitcher signing is risky.

Agreed, but not my point here.

You neither I don’t know what the Sox internal evaluations of said pitchers were.

You don’t just spend money to spend money.

It can both be true that that statement is accurate and Henry has gone soft and is unwilling to open up the purse.

[moonslav59]

he should be spending up to the tax line or nearly so very year. this isn't a small or mid-market organization.

I agree, but my point was that JH is not doing anything new, here.

The bigger change over the last 5 years is that 5-6 other teams decided to go nutty on spending.

[moonslav59]

And of course we always cherry pick the examples that suit our bias. There are other starting pitcher signings that are doing well.

But yes, every pitcher signing is risky.

IMO, last winter produced some very good SPer signings, many the under the radar types, like Lugo, Imanaga and several others. Some had lower AAVs than Gio.

Of course this is hindsight, but many of us advocated for some of the mid level deals that could have been made while keeping us under the tax line.

These lost chances may have also brightened the next season or two, as well. It didn’t have to be all about 2024.

[Old Red]

A pretty good month of June going 15-10, and right in the think of things for a wildcard spot. What is holding the Red Sox back somewhat is their play at Fenway where they have a losing record. Have a month in July like they did in June, and that Wildcard spot could be theirs, and yes I know it would be a disappointment to some to not be sellers, and bring back some more suspects, but to actually do some buying. That would really put Brez in a tough spot on what to do, but wheel, and deal to me would be a lot more fun than to do nothing, or worst sell. I know on here prying away some prospects would be like pulling teeth, and real painful to some, but if the Red Sox play winning ball in July you’ll just have to endure the pain, because playing in October would be fun for a change, and most important the here, and now is what it’s all about.

[Old Red]

Let’s get some good trade talk going. Vlad JR is rumored to be on the block. Let’s go big, and get him. Casas, and a high draft pick, or two. No sense in playing around with rentals. Get JH to open up his checkbook to extend him, and watch him, and Raffy hit back to back, and hammer away. Now that sounds like fun.

[Nick]

Let’s get some good trade talk going. Vlad JR is rumored to be on the block. Let’s go big, and get him. Casas, and a high draft pick, or two. No sense in playing around with rentals. Get JH to open up his checkbook to extend him, and watch him, and Raffy hit back to back, and hammer away. Now that sounds like fun.

Going big is good. Position players are less riskier than pitchers. It would be something to add Vlad to returning Casas. Vlad can DH and relieve lefty 1B bat. To think

Devers (10 yrs), Story (4+1), Yoshida (4), Rafaela (8), Casas (5), Duran (5), Wong (5), Abreu (6), Grissom (6), Valdez (6), Hamilton (6) and Gonzalez (5), all under team control for few years.

I don't want to trade Teel, Mayer or Anthony but with so many team controlled players on the book, I would think it's okay to trade everyone else to acquire established talent now........No?

Our pen has team controlled guys in Weissert (6), Bernardino (6), Slaten (6), Kelly (5) and now Horn (6). Throw in starters Josh W (5), Bello (6+1), Tanner (4) and Kutter (5). We need a top of the line guy both as a starter and another as a closer.

We don't have to decimate the farm. With so many controllable players in the majors, we have time to fill in prospects 11-30 or if you like 4-30.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Draft picks are not tradeable.

[Old Red]

Draft picks are not tradeable.

Already known, and I should have clarified, but I was talking about the big 3. Once again thanks for chipping in.

[Old Red]

Going big is good. Position players are less riskier than pitchers. It would be something to add Vlad to returning Casas. Vlad can DH and relieve lefty 1B bat. To think

Devers (10 yrs), Story (4+1), Yoshida (4), Rafaela (8), Casas (5), Duran (5), Wong (5), Abreu (6), Grissom (6), Valdez (6), Hamilton (6) and Gonzalez (5), all under team control for few years.

I don't want to trade Teel, Mayer or Anthony but with so many team controlled players on the book, I would think it's okay to trade everyone else to acquire established talent now........No?

Our pen has team controlled guys in Weissert (6), Bernardino (6), Slaten (6), Kelly (5) and now Horn (6). Throw in starters Josh W (5), Bello (6+1), Tanner (4) and Kutter (5). We need a top of the line guy both as a starter and another as a closer.

We don't have to decimate the farm. With so many controllable players in the majors, we have time to fill in prospects 11-30 or if you like 4-30.

Casas would be part of the Vlad JR trade.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Last 3 years Casas OPS .846 Guerrero Jr. .812

I'd keep Casas and two top prospects.

[Nick]

Casas would be part of the Vlad JR trade.

No to that....2025 is Vlad's final arbitration year. We have Casa for another 4 years. Not sure why we would give up any prospects in that deal. I wouldn't do it straight up.

4 years versus 1, no thanks.

[Old Red]

No to that....2025 is Vlad's final arbitration year. We have Casa for another 4 years. Not sure why we would give up any prospects in that deal. I wouldn't do it straight up.

4 years versus 1, no thanks.

If you read my original post I said JH would have to open up his checkbook to get JR extended, so it was never going to be a 4 years vs 1.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

No to that....2025 is Vlad's final arbitration year. We have Casa for another 4 years. Not sure why we would give up any prospects in that deal. I wouldn't do it straight up.

4 years versus 1, no thanks.

I put in Mayer/Anthony/Casas for Vlad into BTV for hahaha's and my computer actually started laughing at me.

I kid, I actually think this is a good case for why BTV isn't reliable. They seem to be undervaluing Vlad. According to them Boston should not only reject Casas for Vlad straight up (which I would) but Toronto has to add significant value to make it work.

[Old Red]

Last 3 years Casas OPS .846 Guerrero Jr. .812

I'd keep Casas and two top prospects.

Just a thought, or suggestion, but thanks for responding. Just throwing things out there that to me is better than the usual constant selling off of Jansen, Martin, Pivetta, or O’Neill talk.