Chris Sale traded to Braves

[notin]

Sale pitched 102.2 last year. Not great but 102.2 more than zero.

I've yet to see an explanation for how subtracting innings is a plus.

It wouldn't have broken any rules to keep Sale and sign Giolito.

Not about rules. You know that.

Sale pitched 102 IP last year, but missed a huge chunk in the middle of the season with an injury. He missed almost all of 2022 with an injury. He kissed most of 2022 with an injury. He missed all of 2020 with an injury. He ended 2019 with an injury and a mediocre 4.40 ERA for the season. Thinking he was just going to step in and pitch like this for 150-180 IP bordered on a fantasy. And his AAV was what? $25.6mill for a huge question mark?

If you honestly can’t see why he was moved after that 5 year stretch detailed above at what he had cost, not sure what to say. Atlanta rolled the dice and it’s paying off huge, but if Sale was on the 60 day IL right now, would you be surprised?

Giolito on the 60 day IL actually is much more surprising, especially since he could have been a one year solution. 23yo Vaughn Grissom’s inability to recover from simple injuries is also somewhat surprising.

This deal has been a disaster for Boston. And probably never gets made if Sale had shown anything close to durability from 2020 through 2023. 100 IP interrupted by an injury is not an acceptable display of durability…

[Bellhorn04]

Not about rules. You know that.

Sale pitched 102 IP last year, but missed a huge chunk in the middle of the season with an injury. He missed almost all of 2022 with an injury. He kissed most of 2022 with an injury. He missed all of 2020 with an injury. He ended 2019 with an injury and a mediocre 4.40 ERA for the season. Thinking he was just going to step in and pitch like this for 150-180 IP bordered on a fantasy. And his AAV was what? $25.6mill for a huge question mark?

If you honestly can’t see why he was moved after that 5 year stretch detailed above at what he had cost, not sure what to say. Atlanta rolled the dice and it’s paying off huge, but if Sale was on the 60 day IL right now, would you be surprised?

Giolito on the 60 day IL actually is much more surprising, especially since he could have been a one year solution. 23yo Vaughn Grissom’s inability to recover from simple injuries is also somewhat surprising.

This deal has been a disaster for Boston. And probably never gets made if Sale had shown anything close to durability from 2020 through 2023. 100 IP interrupted by an injury is not an acceptable display of durability…

There was only one year left though. Not much to lose by keeping him.

And they only saved $10 million.

There are plenty of reasons to question the underlying logic of this move, when you look at the totality of what they did.

[Bellhorn04]

As for Giolito, it's not the fact that he get injured that made it a questionable signing. It's that

a) He was the worst pitcher in baseball the last 2 months of 2023.
b) His contract guaranteed $38 million but had an opt out that meant if he pitched great we'd probably lose him after one year.

All in all, there's just no way you can give a passing grade to what they did for the rotation. It was just another offseason of negligence.

[notin]

There was only one year left though. Not much to lose by keeping him.

And they only saved $10 million.

There are plenty of reasons to question the underlying logic of this move, when you look at the totality of what they did.

I think there are reasons to question the results of what they did, but the logic made sense at the time…

[Bellhorn04]

I think there are reasons to question the results of what they did, but the logic made sense at the time…

At the time we didn't know Giolito would be the only addition.

I was silly enough to think if they were trading Sale it meant a big addition was coming.

[notin]

As for Giolito, it's not the fact that he get injured that made it a questionable signing. It's that

a) He was the worst pitcher in baseball the last 2 months of 2023.
b) His contract guaranteed $38 million but had an opt out that meant if he pitched great we'd probably lose him after one year.

All in all, there's just no way you can give a passing grade to what they did for the rotation. It was just another offseason of negligence.

No. Negligence would have been rolling Sale out there again and watching him get hurt and miss 3/4 of the season. They were proactive in getting a pitcher with a solid track record of showing up for work, something Sale hasn’t had in a long time.

Yes, Giolito struggled after for his final 60 IP last year. But he also pitched 126 IP before it happened. When was the last time Sale even pitched 126 IP in a season? Let alone added on 60 more?

[Bellhorn04]

No. Negligence would have been rolling Sale out there again and watching him get hurt and miss 3/4 of the season. They were proactive in getting a pitcher with a solid track record of showing up for work, something Sale hasn’t had in a long time.

Yes, Giolito struggled after for his final 60 IP last year. But he also pitched 126 IP before it happened. When was the last time Sale even pitched 126 IP in a season? Let alone added on 60 more?

Again they could have had both. Not sure why that point has to be repeated. You can never have enough pitching.

If you think they did enough and weren't negligent that's fine, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm not changing mine. I haven't seen anything to convince me they didn't do too little.

[Randy Red Sox]

No. Negligence would have been rolling Sale out there again and watching him get hurt and miss 3/4 of the season. They were proactive in getting a pitcher with a solid track record of showing up for work, something Sale hasn’t had in a long time.

Yes, Giolito struggled after for his final 60 IP last year. But he also pitched 126 IP before it happened. When was the last time Sale even pitched 126 IP in a season? Let alone added on 60 more?

this year and the Braves thank us very much

[notin]

At the time we didn't know Giolito would be the only addition.

I was silly enough to think if they were trading Sale it meant a big addition was coming.

I actually didn’t, although Montgomery rumors were a little enticing. I did like Bello-Crawford-Houck more than most. And probably still do. Although my faith in them was definitely in the wrong order, as Bello was my favorite and Houck my least.

Honestly the Sale-Giolito debacle wasn’t the worst decision this off-season. Just the most overblown. The worst one was once again forcing Whitlock into the rotation. Unlike the Sale trade, this is a move that had already resulted in multiple failures and looks to have depleted a very worn out bullpen even further right now. Sale/Giolito has just been horrible luck. But how Whitlock was handled was stubborn, ignorant, and negligent…

[notin]

this year and the Braves thank us very much

Check your math and then explain how it factored into decisions made in December 2023…

[Bellhorn04]

I actually didn’t, although Montgomery rumors were a little enticing. I did like Bello-Crawford-Houck more than most. And probably still do. Although my faith in them was definitely in the wrong order, as Bello was my favorite and Houck my least.

Honestly the Sale-Giolito debacle wasn’t the worst decision this off-season. Just the most overblown. The worst one was once again forcing Whitlock into the rotation. Unlike the Sale trade, this is a move that had already resulted in multiple failures and looks to have depleted a very worn out bullpen even further right now. Sale/Giolito has just been horrible luck. But how Whitlock was handled was stubborn, ignorant, and negligent…

And I think the decision to give Whitlock another shot at starting was part of the decision to trade Sale, too.

[notin]

Again they could have had both. Not sure why that point has to be repeated. You can never have enough pitching.

If you think they did enough and weren't negligent that's fine, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm not changing mine. I haven't seen anything to convince me they didn't do too little.

I don’t think they wanted both or that Giolito was such hot property they needed to add him. I think the goal was to get some pitching out of the $29mill they committed to Sale. There were only two options.

1. Count on Sale
2. Move as much of Sale’s salary and spend it on a pitcher who will actually pitch.

To me, option one is no different than the repeated attempts to force Whitlock into the rotation, something no one has supported…

[notin]

And I think the decision to give Whitlock another shot at starting was part of the decision to trade Sale, too.

I have no idea if or how they were connected. Both pitchers were expected in the rotation in 2022 and 2023 and neither proved reliable. They tried to keep the wrong one in the rotation in 2024…

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think they wanted both or that Giolito was such hot property they needed to add him. I think the goal was to get some pitching out of the $29mill they committed to Sale. There were only two options.

1. Count on Sale
2. Move as much of Sale’s salary and spend it on a pitcher who will actually pitch.

To me, option one is no different than the repeated attempts to force Whitlock into the rotation, something no one has supported…

They didn't have to "count on" Sale, IMHO. Consider him your fungible #5 starter who may need to be jettisoned at some point, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

There's a ton of guesswork and luck in pitching rotations these days. Nobody can plan for all the shit that happens.

[notin]

They didn't have to "count on" Sale, IMHO. Consider him your fungible #5 starter who may need to be jettisoned at some point, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

There's a ton of guesswork and luck in pitching rotations these days. Nobody can plan for all the shit that happens.

How many teams have a $29mill fungible starter?

Henry has gotten cheap, but even teams that haven’t don’t spend that on “fungible starters.”

If Sale was a free agent this off-season, he doesn’t get that kind of money…