Red Sox ownership

[Maxbialystock]

Great discussion, everyone about Baseball Digest and other sources of stats. I confess I mostly use espn's MLB section for mine. Plus for individual players I will consult baseball reference.

I'm also an NCAA basketball fan and there kenpom.com has the best stats.

Since this is the Sox ownership thread, a reminder--I'm inclined to defend John Henry. I have absolutely zero affection for the man, but think his stewardship has been excellent.

In addition, I too am appalled at some of those large and long contracts for individual players, especially pitchers, who rarely live up to them.

Consider, for example, Mookie Betts. In 6 seasons with the Sox, his accumulated WAR was 42.3 and he was paid a total of $32M. In 5 seasons with the Dodgers his accumulated WAR is 26.6, for which he has been paid $194M, including the $65M bonus and all of this year's salary.

[moonslav59]

Great discussion, everyone about Baseball Digest and other sources of stats. I confess I mostly use espn's MLB section for mine. Plus for individual players I will consult baseball reference.

I'm also an NCAA basketball fan and there kenpom.com has the best stats.

Since this is the Sox ownership thread, a reminder--I'm inclined to defend John Henry. I have absolutely zero affection for the man, but think his stewardship has been excellent.

In addition, I too am appalled at some of those large and long contracts for individual players, especially pitchers, who rarely live up to them.

Consider, for example, Mookie Betts. In 6 seasons with the Sox, his accumulated WAR was 42.3 and he was paid a total of $32M. In 5 seasons with the Dodgers his accumulated WAR is 26.6, for which he has been paid $194M, including the $65M bonus and all of this year's salary.

Are you appalled at how much JH makes?

[Bellhorn04]

In addition, I too am appalled at some of those large and long contracts for individual players, especially pitchers, who rarely live up to them.

Consider, for example, Mookie Betts. In 6 seasons with the Sox, his accumulated WAR was 42.3 and he was paid a total of $32M. In 5 seasons with the Dodgers his accumulated WAR is 26.6, for which he has been paid $194M, including the $65M bonus and all of this year's salary.

Hopefully you're joking with this wacky comparison. But if you're not, all you're showing is that the Red Sox got an incredible bargain because of how the payroll system works in MLB. Also, that bonus has to be pro-rated over the contract. Betts's AAV is 30.4 million.

Wacky!

[Maxbialystock]

Hopefully you're joking with this wacky comparison. But if you're not, all you're showing is that the Red Sox got an incredible bargain because of how the payroll system works in MLB. Also, that bonus has to be pro-rated over the contract. Betts's AAV is 30.4 million.

Wacky!

Wacky? I think it's a truism that a player's best playing years are before age 30 and his best income years are after 30.

Yes, absolutely, in his early years with the Sox Mookie was an unbelievable bargain. Right now so are Duran and Houck. On the other hand, thanks to arbitration, in Mookie's last year with the Sox, 2019, his salary was $20M. When I looked up his Dodgers contract, it said he was paid the $65M bonus up front and not pro-rated.

[Maxbialystock]

Are you appalled at how much JH makes?

Interesting question. I think his income is mostly from outside baseball. He made a lot money as a commodities trader, which is what enabled him to buy the Sox for $660M. That said, however, his current estimated net worth, $4M, is mostly based on the value of the Red Sox franchise.

As it turns out, buying the Sox was a terrific investment, but it was made valuable by those WS wins and other Sox-related schemes. I have to agree those WS wins were frequently the result of investments in players, some of whom, like Mookie, came up through the Sox system, and some of whom were traded for or simply hired as free agents.

[Bellhorn04]

Wacky? I think it's a truism that a player's best playing years are before age 30 and his best income years are after 30.

Yes, absolutely, in his early years with the Sox Mookie was an unbelievable bargain. Right now so are Duran and Houck. On the other hand, thanks to arbitration, in Mookie's last year, 2019, with the Sox his salary was $20M. When I looked up his contract, it said he was paid the $65M bonus up front and not pro-rated.

Yes, he was paid the bonus up front, but up front bonuses and deferrals are all factored into the Average Annual Value of 30.4 million (or 365/12), which is clearly the fairest measure of what he is actually making.

If we only use what the player is actually being paid, Ohtani is only making 2 million for 2024. But his AAV is 46 million because of the deferred money.

Also, to get really technical, in 2020 players only received 40% of their salary because of COVID, so that year Betts would have been paid about 11 million instead of 27 million.

[Maxbialystock]

Yes, he was paid the bonus up front, but up front bonuses and deferrals are all factored into the Average Annual Value of 30.4 million (or 365/12), which is clearly the fairest measure of what he is actually making.

If we only use what the player is actually being paid, Ohtani is only making 2 million for 2024. But his AAV is 46 million because of the deferred money.

Also, to get really technical, in 2020 players only received 40% of their salary because of COVID, so that year Betts would have been paid about 11 million instead of 27 million.

Thanks for the info on 2020. 40% makes sense. They played 60/162 games, 37%, so 40% was just a tad over. Plus, of course, no one came to the games.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

This exchange hinges on one's definition of what constitutes a "bargain."

If I'm the Celtics' owner, maybe it's a bargain to pay market value to keep my stars in their primes so the fans will keep buying tickets and swag to follow annual sustained title contenders.

[moonslav59]

Interesting question. I think his income is mostly from outside baseball. He made a lot money as a commodities trader, which is what enabled him to buy the Sox for $660M. That said, however, his current estimated net worth, $4M, is mostly based on the value of the Red Sox franchise.

As it turns out, buying the Sox was a terrific investment, but it was made valuable by those WS wins and other Sox-related schemes. I have to agree those WS wins were frequently the result of investments in players, some of whom, like Mookie, came up through the Sox system, and some of whom were traded for or simply hired as free agents.

He’s made way more than Betts, and when he sells the team, let’s talk.