But it does happen. Some guys are super wild, and barely throw strikes, but when they do, it's picture perfect. Go watch a couple of the few good starts Victor Zambrano had in 2004, and you'll see exactly what I mean. Dude's all over the place in the same AB, but the strikes he does throw are usually in the corners, and low in the strike zone, as if he was painting. Pure insanity.
WAR is good for something.
Let's say the catcher puts his mitt right on the edge of the K zone, but close enough that the ump will call a strike 99% of the time, if you hit the mitt every time.Originally Posted by Bellhorn04
Pitcher A misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the K zone side. Pitcher B misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the out of zone size.
In theory, Pitcher A has great control and good to great command.
Pitcher B has horrible control but good to great command, as he misses the mitt by the same amount as pitcher A.
Is this correct?
It just seems off to me, for some reason, although I get the definitions applied by people who analyze pitchers.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
Can't quantify it on a single pitch.
WAR is good for something.
I guess if you come very close to the target set by your catcher, but always to the non K-zone side. You have "command," because you just barely miss the target, but poor control, because it's often outside the K zone.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
I'm saying what if this happens 90% of the time?
Catchers rarely set the target right down the middle.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
Player A throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about half of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good control, but not good command.
Player B throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command and control.
Player C throws 48% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command but not good control.
This oversimplifies things, as a lot of pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose, but you get the gist of it.
WAR is good for something.
Not bad -- Player C is harder to hit, but not as reliable than A or B?
Here's a chart from a new MLB.com article about Monty... not sure their formula (but it does show that Burnes is still a good option):
Pitchers with highest in-zone run value in 2023
Regular and postseason combined
Gerrit Cole: +65 runs prevented
Blake Snell: +56 runs prevented
Sonny Gray: +53 runs prevented
Zac Gallen: +49 runs prevented
Kodai Senga: +49 runs prevented
Kyle Bradish: +48 runs prevented
Cristian Javier: +46 runs prevented
Corbin Burnes: +45 runs prevented
Zack Wheeler: +44 runs prevented
Jordan Montgomery: +43 runs prevented
We understand the set definitions of the terms used.
I'm just saying, it goes against intuition to look at my examples of picther A & B and say the guy who misses the mitt by a wide margin, almost every time has "better control" than I guy who misses the mitt by 1/2 inch almost every time, but always to the non K-zone side has "poor control."
The word control has long-standing connotations to it from other uses of the word.
I'm fine with using two terms to distinguish between two different areas of pitcher analyzation, but it just seems counterintuitive to me to say pitcher A had better control than pitcher B, because more of his way off the mitt pitches end up being stikes.
I'm not trying to start an argument or lobby for a change in terms, but it's hard for me to think a guy who misses the mitt by as much as "A" does to say he has great control.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
Command is a myth. It's just whether a pitcher is clutch or not.
Aces.
WAR is good for something.
Post of the week.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
I’m thinking following the farm might be more interesting, fun and satisfying than the big club.
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