Hanley Ramirez

[oldtimer]

I share your feeling, but I'm acting on an assumption that might be totally wrong- we will not make a major acquisition to replace Papi. I'm working on what our current roster minus Papi might look like next year.

We may need to put tradition behind us for a short time, so we can put the best hitting team on the field next year. I see the great advantage of putting top athletes in AAA to improve their defense, if there is no starting role on the 25 man roster. That's a long-standing tradition that has a lot of merit. However, our offense may need help, and right now, I see Moncada and Swihart (along with beni in LF) as the leading candidates to greatly increase their MLB PAs from 2016 to 2017. They are ahead of Pablo, Hernandez, Holt, Vazquez and maybe even Young (vs RHPs anyway) on offense.

The issue is how to get their bats into the line-up without severely limiting our defense. Moncada looks to need much more time at 3B to be decent on defense. Playing DH and practicing 3B on his off time may not be the ideal chocie, but if his bat can help us win, we may have to put him at DH for a while anyway (vs RHPs). One major reason I suggested Swihart learn 1B or 3B was so he wouldn't have to DH. I have no idea how Sox management views his possibilities as a corner IF'er, and I defer to their judgment on that one. I don't see Swihart beating out Leon next year, and I'm not sure even healthy, he's above Vaz on the depth chart. Putting him in AAA might be a good idea, but we'd need Leon or Vaz to get hurt or suck for him to ever get out of AAA, unless he just totally started raking AAA pitching. This is one reason, I have discussed trading Swihart. Clearly, other teams have greater needs at catching than us.

I'd love to keep Swihart. If he could play 1B and HanRam DH, or 3B and Shaw 1B and HR DH, then he could get is PAs at the ML level easily. It would also be nice to have a 3rd catcher for late inning moves. That's why I prefer trading Holt over Swihart, even with the return for Swihart being greater. Plus, Swihart does give us catcher depth, in case of injury or implosion.

I don't like the idea of DH'ing Swihart or Moncada. I'd prefer HanRan DH vs RHPs and Young vs LHPs, with Swihart and Moncada pushing to win a corner IF job away from Shaw or HanRam (who could DH full time). There may even be competition from Pablo, but I'm not counting on that.

First of all I agree with the premise that we shouldn't and won't go after an ageing power hitter and get into a long term contract that could easily turn sour. I understand and share your view of Swihart having a better chance to make the team but I would concentrate on 1st base and assume he would also have utility value in both the outfield and 2nd backup catcher. He is young and has potential to help the team going forward.

The Moncada situation is really up in the air as he definitely is not ready to play at the major league level at this time. How much more grooming will he need? I suspect he will start the season in AAA and depending on his progress could be up if a need develops or at least by the all star break. That still is a hope as he really wasn't showing the mental toughness needed. Under those circumstances Shaw can't be traded , since hill and Rutledge are not solid options and Holt would only be a stop gap. I like Rutledge as perhaps a backup but also Hernandez looks like he is more flexible. Then there is Devers in the background. Third is really our most contested position.

Holt is a major league player and would have some trade value as an every day player, something he is unlikely to get for the Sox.

I still think we need to straighten out the RP situation as a priority. With Ziegler at 38 and a FA, Tazawa probably returning to form as he gets more rested but a FA and Uehara as a great talent but 42 to 43 next year. How long could he go? DD needs to really think long and hard at what he has and bolster the pen with smart pitchers. His move to get Ziegler was good and Abad on paper was better than he has shown to date. Smith may return so it is a complex situation. Guys like Robby Scott who don't throw hard but has a knack for getting guys out is interesting. Do we want hard throwers or guys who are effective? Sometimes one doesn't lead to the other.

[Kimmi]

I don't like the idea either, but what if Swihart is hitting .850+ at AAA, and our DH is not doing well. If Swihart can't play 1B, then HanRam will and Swihart (or Moncada) could be the DH for a while.

I know this hurts their growth as a fielder and all around player, but if either is the best hitter we have, and we don't have a position for them to play, then DH may be a stop gap choice.

In a crunch, I can understand the need to use one of them as a DH if there is no better option. But that is far different than penciling in one them to be our regular DH at the start of the season, which is what I thought you were saying. IMO, neither one of them should be on our Opening Day roster as the DH.

I have been in agreement with a few others here for a while that Swihart should be getting reps at 1B and/or 3B.

[Kimmi]

Which makes more sense, Hanley at DH and Swihart (or Shaw) at 1b, or Hanley at 1B and one of those two as DH? You've got the same people in the lineup, and Hanley is not only happy, but he's turned into a respectable 1b.

And don't underestimate the value of Hanley being happy vs. Hanely being unhappy.

I do not underestimate the value of a happy Hanley versus an unhappy Hanley. I fully agree that if Hanely's offense will suffer as a DH, then he should stay at first base. Hence, my mention of his possible need to be fully engaged in the game.

I am not at all unhappy with Hanley's defense at first base, but he is slightly below average to average defensively. If Hanley is okay with DHing, then Swihart or Shaw could provide a defensive upgrade while keeping the same bats in the line up.

Either way, we have a lot of options without having to grossly overpay for an aging free agent.

[Spudboy]

In a crunch, I can understand the need to use one of them as a DH if there is no better option. But that is far different than penciling in one them to be our regular DH at the start of the season, which is what I thought you were saying. IMO, neither one of them should be on our Opening Day roster as the DH.

I have been in agreement with a few others here for a while that Swihart should be getting reps at 1B and/or 3B.

Great minds think alike.

Sort of.

[Kimmi]

Great minds think alike.

Sort of.

I was actually thinking of you when I posted that.

[Spudboy]

I was actually thinking of you when I posted that.

You and I agree much more than you know.

[moonslav59]

Do we want hard throwers or guys who are effective? Sometimes one doesn't lead to the other.

Sometimes it's nice to throw a mix at teams.