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Thread: How Bad Are the Umps?

  1. #31
    Too old for this User Name?'s Avatar
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    But the umpires don't have control over fines. They can, however, eject managers and players at their discretion.
    We miss you Mike.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    The OP is silliness personified. The simple fact is that we have a lousy pitching staff. I think it is possible that in these last two games in Toronto when we lost late and despite scoring first 5 runs and the 9 that the Jays are reading our signs. However, I also think that Uehara threw too many "fast" balls (that top out at 86-88 mph) and not enough splitters. Kimbrel has blazing speed but can also be predictable--but the case for the Jays reading our signs is stronger there.

    Having a troubled pitching staff in no way is helped by poor umpiring. When pitch after pitch is called a ball when they are clearly strikes, how can that be helpful? It isn't the umpire's job to be helpful but they aren't supposed to create more problems. I don't really care if you think that is silly but anytime batters are given more opportunities to hit it creates problems. Porcello throws to the lower end of the strike zone as a natural part of his game. When those pitches are called balls it forces him to throw higher and much more into the batter's hot zones. If you cannot see that, I have nothing more to say. The might before Kelly had to throw into a strike zone that was so small that when I use the understanding of Teddy Ballgame's old strike zone all the advantage goes to the batter. You cannot go wide or inside. You cannot go high or low - or they are balls. Silly me.

    The reality--and the reason why I call the OP silly--is that umpiring keeps getting better and better thanks to the multiple camera replays and the semi-official use of automated strike zones. I say semi-official because the umps still make the calls on balls and strikes and only get feedback later, which is a whole helluva lot better than before those automated strike zones.

    I beg to differ. They are not getting universally better and better. Especially the last two games. The TOOLS for measuring them are getting better but the application of those tools are not reaching everyone. I accept that I don't watch other games, I hardly have time to watch an entire game at any given moment. I had this weekend off, so I saw every pitch - except when I stepped away in disgust. I was hardly the only one making statements about the calls made.


    A further thought is that I think the hitting lobby continues to be far more powerful than the pitching lobby. You can see this in every game when almost every batter is more than willing to complain about a call, but rare is the pitcher or catcher who will do so.

    To be honest, my sympathies tend to be in favor of pitchers and umpires. Pitchers because they have to throw that ball very hard--in the case of starters, 100 times or more a game--with a variety of speeds and spins while still hitting an incredibly small target 66 feet away. They throw so hard they put their arms and shoulders at risk, but they are still nothing if they don't have control.


    I am all in favor of the pitchers and umpires, recognizing the skill necessary for each. While I am always for the Red Sox, I am not asking for special favors. I am asking for the codified understanding of neutral and fair. When you give the batter extra strikes, which in baseball means balls. They favor the "opposing" hitter.

    The home plate umpires, on the other hand, put themselves at risk by just standing behind the catcher. On top of that, they have to make literally hundreds of calls, every one of which is being tracked by special cameras and computers. Did anyone every wonder (as I have) why MLB doesn't simply pick the best home plate umpires, pay them more, and keep them behind the plate? My guess it's because home plate is just too tough a job night after night for the incredibly long MLB season. So the job rotates among the four-man umpire squad.

    If they cannot handle the "risk" of being behind the plate, find a job as a matre'd or a donut baker (I am not knocking either of them. I was a celebrated baker for half a decade.) If the job is too tough, especially in the first quarter of the long season, find another gig. They weren't drafted or conscripted.


    And don't forget that the umpire's view is inevitably and slightly blocked by the catcher, usually on low pitches and outside pitches. The other issue is that a breaking ball might or might not have passed thru the plane of the strike zone even though it began and ended outside it.
    Who forgets this? But if one cannot take those built in obstacles, don't penalize the other participants because one isn't capable.
    Last edited by SinceYaz; 05-29-2016 at 08:34 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    But the umpires don't have control over fines. They can, however, eject managers and players at their discretion.
    True. I wasn't thinking of only the immediate. Very true.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post
    How does not having the dumb-ass manager having the chance to argue balls-and-strikes with the ump take away anything from the game. The staged and theatrical managerial tirades face-to-face with the ump are embarrassing. It's not allowed in any other sport. The problem with baseball is that there is no way to penalize this behavior except with an ejection.
    Have you ever seen Billy Martin v. umpire? Hehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    What were the most egregious missed strike calls yesterday? I've been going through some Jays AB's on GameDay and I haven't seen anything really bad yet.
    I didn't map the pitches, Halifax. I suppose I should do that before I open my mo .... type.

  6. #36
    I hear all of you on bad ump's. They are at all levels. They think they are the game and they are going to call it their way and you can go eff off.
    The players have a bat, use it. If you stand there and wait for your pitch to maximize your potential against one of those clowns, they'll get you and feel good about it.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michfan View Post
    I hear all of you on bad ump's. They are at all levels. They think they are the game and they are going to call it their way and you can go eff off.
    The players have a bat, use it. If you stand there and wait for your pitch to maximize your potential against one of those clowns, they'll get you and feel good about it.
    In the end you are right. As YY said earlier, there are lots of variables. That is one reason the game is so hard. Batting cages are great fun but they aren't the whole game. I am amazed that pros can catch a pitcher tipping his pitches and tag the guy. When it rains, the hard thrower and the knuckleballer each have issues ... and on and on.

    The ump takes away a person's assurance things will go the way they are supposed to if he isn't consistent. If they are, then all is balanced and somewhat fair....

    But again, I rarely make this an issue. It is just that it was so bad. I have made issue before, even when we won. But not to this extent.

  8. #38
    Ever notice that there's rarely complaining about the umps after a win?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    That's because theyre given a gray area "leeway" in what's called a "borderline strike". Check out a gameday game one of these days, and you'll see this gray area in all its majesty. It's pretty significant.
    Yea, I remember them talking about that too. It's like the width of baseball if I remember correctly. That is significant.
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  10. #40
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    MLB umpires are no worse than they've been for more than a century.
    It's the new technology -- pitch tracking and video play reviews -- that has given fans more information than they've ever had before.
    Instead of moving on from questionable calls, fans now have new ammunition to stew in their frustration.
    Automated strike zones may offer one answer but I doubt baseball will ever eliminate the element of human error.
    And as one poster noted, fans rarely complain about umpiring following a win.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Max, your whole post points to the reasoning that the homeplate ump should be a robot (concussion risk, blocked views, k zone already monitored by computers).
    Perhaps. Until it happens, I'm a helluva lot more sympathetic to them than to typical whining fans who think the world is unjust because their team just lost 3 in a row.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinceYaz View Post
    Who forgets this? But if one cannot take those built in obstacles, don't penalize the other participants because one isn't capable.
    Your cry for justice is, I'm afraid, just plain old whining. We have lousy pitchers who can't or won't (some are afraid of it---see Buchholz) hit the strike zone. Just look our presumptive ace, Price, today, May 29. He has two walks and it's talking him 45 pitches to get through the first two innings. The homeplate umpire aren't penalizing our guys. They are doing it to themselves.

  13. #43
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    So you are complaining about whining by whining? WHINECEPTION!
    We miss you Mike.

  14. #44
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    Ive complained plenty about umpiring after a win and ive seen plenty others do it too.
    Funny the only two posters who mention that are a Mariners fan and a MFY fan...

  15. #45
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Perhaps. Until it happens, I'm a helluva lot more sympathetic to them than to typical whining fans who think the world is unjust because their team just lost 3 in a row.
    I complain about umps whether the Sox are winning or not. It has nothing to do with a losing streak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    I get MV Pee.

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