Piazza a CHEATER!

[TheKilo]

Bench is the better offensive catcher and the much better defensive catcher of the two. Fisk is overrated thanks to one swing of the bat.

[example1]

Gibson was a beast.

[SCM33]

I know Ive researched Gibson before, and it was estimated that he hit nearly 800 homeruns. I havent looked him up lately, but since this discussion Ive done a little web surfing. When did official records determine that nearly 600 of his career home runs do not count because they were against inferior competition? This is news to me....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Gibson

Another website shows basically the same thing, with a little more gratitude towards his numbers:
http://sports.jrank.org/pages/1645/G...tatistics.html

[YAZMAN]

Bench is the better offensive catcher and the much better defensive catcher of the two. Fisk is overrated thanks to one swing of the bat.

Closer than you think offensively. The SIM rating here is very relevant as they both played the same position so they start out on an even playing field.

Fisk: 887
Bench: 887

http://www.baseball-reference.com/fr...Fisk&st=career

http://www.baseball-reference.com/ab...milarity.shtml

[BoSox21]

In terms of Gibson, I think it deserves to be mentioned that he played an average of 31 games a year in the Negro Leagues, a far cry from the grueling schedule major league catchers had to endure

[YAZMAN]

Interesting...who discredits this because they rank Varitek an "A" list catcher at 33rd all time offensively?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...lb-offensively

[rician blast]

Bench and Fisk are really close, although Fisk had to have at least 1,000 more ABs.

I think many of the guys who saw him play would say Munson would possibly have had a shot at that distinction had his career not been cut short. I'd like to get Rician and Crunch's take on that. I know I hated the guy while he was playing, he was a wicked hard-nosed, snotty player. But at the same time I respected the guy's ability. He put up impressive numbers, was wicked clutch, and was just a little shy of Fisk and Bench in the power department.

Munson only hit 20 Hrs once in his career, and in 1978 only had 6...and through July of 1979 he only had 3. I think the lack of power would have kept him from ever being considered in that upper echelon of catchers.

That said , he was a good player. From 75 to 78 he averaged about 185 hits per season with about a .310 average. Very hard nosed, competitive guy, who I hated back in the day, but respected. He was slow as hell, though, I guess you could say he couldn't fly.

[Keeper]

When did official records determine that nearly 600 of his career home runs do not count because they were against inferior competition? This is news to me....

I wasn't trying to be inflammatory or racist. Gibson just never occurred to me. Take it easy.

[AndrewKrylon]

As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for 15 years, I can confirm that Piazza is a cheater. You don't go from hitting 40 homeruns a year to struggling to get 10 without having used.

*See: Adrian Beltre

[Coco's Disciples]

What if you're a catcher in your 30s? Now, I think Piazza's a cheater, but I don't find his decline so ridiculous. He went from 40 HR, to 38, 36, 33, then 11 in an injured season, then 20, 19, 22 in shorter seasons.

[AndrewKrylon]

What if you're a catcher in your 30s? Now, I think Piazza's a cheater, but I don't find his decline so ridiculous. He went from 40 HR, to 38, 36, 33, then 11 in an injured season, then 20, 19, 22 in shorter seasons.

Wow, surprising numbers :dunno:. Maybe I was listening to the hecklers at Chavez-Ravine a bit too much, probably caused me to exaggerate Piaza's decline, but it sure SEEMED like there was a major drop off in his production.