I leave for the night and you Clement Lovers

[Fire_Theo]

I leave for the night and return to a bunch of posts saying Theo was right in kicking Pedro off the team.

The only way Theo was right in kicking Pedro off the team is:
1. If you think tanking the 2005 season was a good move, or
2. You think Matt Clement gave the Sox a better chance to win the world series in 2005.

Every other justification is just an excuse for Theo.


But then again, we had some jerk saying he sucks against the Yankees since leaving Boston (when he's only pitched 22 Innings and allowed 3 runs in 3 starts with the Mets), so some of you guys aren't afraid to let facts get in the way of your slanted excuses for Theo.

[jacksonianmarch]

no, he said he sucked against the yankees when he was in Boston. And an argument can be made that this is truth.

BTW, Carbo, how are ya?

[Fire_Theo]

no, he said he sucked against the yankees when he was in Boston. And an argument can be made that this is truth.

not really. his numbers were worse against the yankees than his numbers were versus the rest of the league, but his numbers were still among the best in baseball versus the yankees.

but some pedro haters just make shit up to rip the guy and defend theo tanking 2005 intentionally. mr. crunchy is a great example of that.

[Fire_Theo]

you want to see poor numbers against the yankees, why don't you add up Dice K, Beckett and Schills numbers while with Boston versus NYY. ERA around 7.

But Pedro would lose a game 2-1 and he sucked against the Yankees?

Double standard held by the Pedro haters.

[jacksonianmarch]

not really. his numbers were worse against the yankees than the rest of the league, but his numbers were still among the best in baseball versus the yankees.

but some pedro haters just make shit up to rip the guy and defend theo tanking 2005 intentionally. mr. crunchy is a great example of that.

so. You think a 4 yr deal worth 54 million dollars is commensurate to the rate that should have been awarded to Pedro, KNOWING RIGHT NOW that he would miss the last half of 2006, the first 3/4 of 2007 and come back with a repaired rotator cuff and a continued drop in velocity?

[jacksonianmarch]

you want to see poor numbers against the yankees, why don't you add up Dice K, Beckett and Schills numbers while with Boston versus NYY. ERA around 7.

But Pedro would lose a game 2-1 and he sucked against the Yankees?

Double standard held by the Pedro haters.

can you read or are you just mildly retarded. They loved Pedro here. I'm a Pedro hater.

[Fire_Theo]

maybe we should kick these guys off the team and bring in matt clement and wade miller to replace them?

versus yankees as red sox:

dice K:
2007 - 13 IP, 10 ER
Tota - 13 IP, 10 ER, 6.92 ERA

Beckett:
2006 - 21 IP, 21 ER
2007 - 13 IP, 8 ER
Total - 34 IP, 29 ER, 7.67 ERA

Schills:
2004 - 28.2 IP, 16 ER
2005 - 16.2 IP, 9 ER
2006 - 28 IP, 13 ER
2007 - 18 IP, 14 ER
Total - 91 IP, 52 ER - 5.14 ERA

Total - 138 IP, 91 ER, 5.93 ERA

I guess these guys suck too and that Matt Clement is better?

Should we kick these guys off the team because the Yankees have their number?

[Fire_Theo]

so. You think a 4 yr deal worth 54 million dollars is commensurate to the rate that should have been awarded to Pedro, KNOWING RIGHT NOW that he would miss the last half of 2006, the first 3/4 of 2007 and come back with a repaired rotator cuff and a continued drop in velocity?

knowing that he pitched 217 IP at a 2.80 ERA in 2005, and that he will be pitching this post season as well as next year, and viewing the alternatives in the 2004 FA market (ie, Clement, Pavano, Wright, Ortiz) - DEFINITELY

Anybody who disagrees either:
1. is happy that theo tanked 2005 intentionally, or
2. believe that matt clement gave them a better chance in 2005 to win the WS.


I fully believe that Roger is worth $28 mill this year. Why? He gives the Yankees a chance. Same thing for Pedro in 2005, as well as this post season and in 2008.

But there are some Clement lovers who are in denial about this.

[jacksonianmarch]

were you born this stupid or did you get kicked in the head by a mule?

[Fire_Theo]

were you born this stupid or did you get kicked in the head by a mule?

you hate pedro, i understand.

but tanking 2005 was a HORRIBLE mistake. and having pedro this post season would be a plus, as well as next year.

i know you are happy the Sox tanked 2005, so you will defend the move as smart. but matt clement did not give the sox a better chance to win the world series that year, despite what Mr. Chunky says.

[yankees228]

You would think one thread like this would be enough...

[jacksonianmarch]

you hate pedro, i understand.

but tanking 2005 was a HORRIBLE mistake. and having pedro this post season would be a plus, as well as next year.

i know you are happy the Sox tanked 2005, so you will defend the move as smart. but matt clement did not give the sox a better chance to win the world series that year, despite what Mr. Chunky says.

Fuckhead. Listen to other people for a second. You may not know this, but you are pretty close to being banned.

Pedro is coming off ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY HERE WILL DIMINISH THIS FACT. AND THIS ISNT ELBOW SURGERY THAT A PLAYER RETURNS FROM TYPICALLY BETTER THAN WHEN HE WENT UNDER THE KNIFE. THIS IS A CAREER DAMAGING INJURY THAT COULD VERY WELL END PEDRO'S EFFECTIVENESS. COMING IN NOW WITH THE WHOLE PEDRO SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESIGNED IDEA IS LUDICROUS. YOU DONT PAY A PLAYER 13 MIL A YR TO HAVE HIM GO THROUGH A CAREER THREATENING SURGERY. YOU JUST DONT. YOUR ARGUMENT FOR PEDRO DIED WITH HIS SHOULDER LAST POSTSEASON.

[Fire_Theo]

Fuckhead. Listen to other people for a second. You may not know this, but you are pretty close to being banned.

Pedro is coming off ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY HERE WILL DIMINISH THIS FACT. AND THIS ISNT ELBOW SURGERY THAT A PLAYER RETURNS FROM TYPICALLY BETTER THAN WHEN HE WENT UNDER THE KNIFE. THIS IS A CAREER DAMAGING INJURY THAT COULD VERY WELL END PEDRO'S EFFECTIVENESS. COMING IN NOW WITH THE WHOLE PEDRO SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESIGNED IDEA IS LUDICROUS. YOU DONT PAY A PLAYER 13 MIL A YR TO HAVE HIM GO THROUGH A CAREER THREATENING SURGERY. YOU JUST DONT. YOUR ARGUMENT FOR PEDRO DIED WITH HIS SHOULDER LAST POSTSEASON.



the reason why Pedro is ONLY $13 mill is because he is having surgery. if he were projected to be healthy the whole time, he would have been like $80 mill for 4 years. He's making Kevin Millwood type money, which is a huge discount, because he is an injury risk.

$13 mill is DIRT CHEAP for pedro. you act like he's making a lot of money and is an injury risk. He's making peanuts.

[jacksonianmarch]

13 mil is not dirt cheap when that player is either on the shelf or useless. The Pedro that you love is on tapes now. He isnt in reality anymore.

[yankees228]

the reason why Pedro is ONLY $13 mill is because he is having surgery. if he were projected to be healthy the whole time, he would have been like $80 mill for 4 years. He's making Kevin Millwood type money, which is a huge discount, because he is an injury risk.

$13 mill is DIRT CHEAP for pedro. you act like he's making a lot of money and is an injury risk. He's making peanuts.

Then I wish I was making peanuts.

[Teddyballgame10]

I've said it 20 times to you but you dont get it, Clement wasnt a replacment for Pedro. Pedro is impossible to replace. Clement was just a lower priced pitcher. Yes if they came at the same price I would take Pedro. Clement was not brought in to be the ace of the staff though.

[Fire_Theo]

13 mil is not dirt cheap when that player is either on the shelf or useless. The Pedro that you love is on tapes now. He isnt in reality anymore.

when you get him for 4 years, $52 mill is dirt cheap.

pedro in 2005 was as valuable as roger is this year. that's $28 mill.
pedro this post season will be worth a ton. pedro next year will be worth a ton. and while pedro last year broke down, he still made the allstar team, which is worth more than JD Drew or Julio Lugo.

[jacksonianmarch]

BUT YOU SPENT 9 MIL ON CLEMENT AND ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS GIVE HIM PINEIRO AND YOU HAD HIM!! 52 MIL FOR 1.5 SEASONS IS A BARGAIN!!!! CLEMENT LOVING THEO PUPPET PUSSY!!!

[Fire_Theo]

I've said it 20 times to you but you dont get it, Clement wasnt a replacment for Pedro. Pedro is impossible to replace. Clement was just a lower priced pitcher. Yes if they came at the same price I would take Pedro. Clement was not brought in to be the ace of the staff though.

so what you're saying is that theo was just tanking 2005? wasn't even trying to win? by not even trying to replace pedro, how was he trying to win that year?

[jacksonianmarch]

when you get him for 4 years, $52 mill is dirt cheap.

pedro in 2005 was as valuable as roger is this year. that's $28 mill.
pedro this post season will be worth a ton. pedro next year will be worth a ton. and while pedro last year broke down, he still made the allstar team, which is worth more than JD Drew or Julio Lugo.

Scumbag. 52 mil for 1.5 seasons. That is better than ARod money. THat is 35 mil a season. Is Pedro worth 35 mil?

[jacksonianmarch]

so what you're saying is that theo was just tanking 2005? wasn't even trying to win? by not even trying to replace pedro, how was he trying to win that year?

you do remember being a playoff team in 05 right? And you do remember your team being swept, right? How does Pedro help you win in 05 if you he only pitches 2 games in the series?

[Fire_Theo]

Scumbag. 52 mil for 1.5 seasons. That is better than ARod money. THat is 35 mil a season. Is Pedro worth 35 mil?

1.5 seasons?

again, you assume he won't come back.

this post season is worth a ton to have him on the roster. and next year he could win the cy young. that's not 1.5 seasons. more like 3 seasons for $52 mill, which is a BARGAIN!!

[jacksonianmarch]

1.5 seasons?

again, you assume he won't come back.

this post season is worth a ton to have him on the roster. and next year he could win the cy young. that's not 1.5 seasons. more like 3 seasons for $52 mill, which is a BARGAIN!!

I am assuming he comes back as a league average player. The Mets paid for PEDRO. They got 1.5 seasons of PEDRO. They lost a full season of him and then get the righty version of Wandy Rodriguez for the next 1.5. They got 1.5 seasons of what they paid for. The rest will be shit.

[Fire_Theo]

I am assuming he comes back as a league average player. The Mets paid for PEDRO. They got 1.5 seasons of PEDRO. They lost a full season of him and then get the righty version of Wandy Rodriguez for the next 1.5. They got 1.5 seasons of what they paid for. The rest will be shit.

dude, if the mets paid for PEDRO, it wouldn't have been $52 mill. It would have been like what the Yankees paid for ROGER this year.

Mets paid for a discounted PEDRO, which is what they are getting.

You are acting like Pedro is making $28 mill per year. He doesn't make that in TWO seasons.

[Fire_Theo]

funny, the mets paid $52 mill for 4 years of PEDRO in his top notch form. That's freaking hillarious.

Kevin Millwood and Pedro are the same amount of money according to this Pedro hater.

Mets paid a heavily discounted price for Pedro.

[jacksonianmarch]

dude, if the mets paid for PEDRO, it wouldn't have been $52 mill. It would have been like what the Yankees paid for ROGER this year.

Mets paid for a discounted PEDRO, which is what they are getting.

You are acting like Pedro is making $28 mill per year. He doesn't make that in TWO seasons.

Pedro on your team right now would be a drag. Open rotations spot for the entire season. And it would suck to watch him recover while getting his ass handed to him.

[jacksonianmarch]

funny, the mets paid $52 mill for 4 years of PEDRO in his top notch form. That's freaking hillarious.

Kevin Millwood and Pedro are the same amount of money according to this Pedro hater.

Mets paid a heavily discounted price for Pedro.

you are dumb. Millwood at least doesnt have a serious injury like Pedro does. Do you actually read or are you just spamming. I am losing my patience with you.

[Fire_Theo]

Pedro on your team right now would be a drag. Open rotations spot for the entire season. And it would suck to watch him recover while getting his ass handed to him.

yeah, I would have hated to win the 2005 world series.
i would have hated to add a great arm to the rotation for the fall.
and i would have hated to watch pedro kick ass in 2008.

you're right, that would have sucked. matt clement is better.

[Fire_Theo]

you are dumb. Millwood at least doesnt have a serious injury like Pedro does. Do you actually read or are you just spamming. I am losing my patience with you.

kevin millwood just got off the DL.

if you really think that PEDRO and Kevin Millwood are worth the same, you're dumber than I thought.

$52 mill was a HUGE discount for Pedro, because he was an injury risk. If he wasn't an injury risk, he would have been closer to $80 mill for 4 years.

[jacksonianmarch]

but he was, is, and always will be an injury risk. You are as thick as a stone wall.

[Fire_Theo]

but he was, is, and always will be an injury risk. You are as thick as a stone wall.

and that is why he was so cheap. why is that so hard to understand.

$52 mill is not pedro's value absent an injury risk. his value with no injury risk would be closer to $80 mill for 4 years. $52 mill takes into account the injury risk, and is well worth the money.

[jacksonianmarch]

Can you acknowledge the possibility that his career may be over?

[Fire_Theo]

Can you acknowledge the possibility that his career may be over?

spoken like a true pedro hater.

his career isn't over, as much as you and the other pedro haters on this board hope it is.

matt clement's career is over. pedro's just about to hit his second wind.


do you honestly think that his career might be over? i definitely don't. not one ounce of me will remotely acknowledge that possibility.

[Fire_Theo]

can you acknowledge that philip hughes career might be over? i mean, he hurt his vagina in his last game, so he's probably done for his career. right?

[jacksonianmarch]

spoken like a true pedro hater.

his career isn't over, as much as you and the other pedro haters on this board hope it is.

matt clement's career is over. pedro's just about to hit his second wind.


do you honestly think that his career might be over? i definitely don't. not one ounce of me will remotely acknowledge that possibility.

can you consider the POSSIBILITY that his career MAY be over?

[jacksonianmarch]

and the funniest thing is that Clement and Pedro had the exact same surgery. Yet Clement's career is done and Pedro is hitting his "second wind." You are a moron.

[adam123]

Jackson who is that jerk ? man u guy's thought I was bad.

[rician blast]

Adam, you paying somebody to be a total jack-off in order that the heat is taken off you????

Just kidding..this Fire_Theo kid is a tool.

[adam123]

Adam, you paying somebody to be a total jack-off in order that the heat is taken off you????

Just kidding..this Fire_Theo kid is a tool.

Please like I have that kinda money Ha ha .. who is this guy what a chode.

[TedWilliams101]

Fire_Theo, go away, your dumb and annoying. Theo was right to let Pedro walk. We all love Pedro, but his best was behind him and we knew his arm would break down. Guess he was right. Comparing Pedro to Clement is pointless.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

LOL UR ALL PEDRO HATERZ

[Metropolitan Cowboy]

Fire_Theo, go away, your dumb and annoying.



Spoken like a third grader getting his ass handed to him verbally over and over. Are you going to take your ball and go home?

[riverside sluggers]

but he was, is, and always will be an injury risk. You are as thick as a stone wall.

Any chance this was our pal "RedSoxFaninNYC"? ;)

[jacksonianmarch]

could very well be.

[Soxfan#1]

wtf is this?

[RavenOfProphecy]

I am assuming he comes back as a league average player. The Mets paid for PEDRO. They got 1.5 seasons of PEDRO. They lost a full season of him and then get the righty version of Wandy Rodriguez for the next 1.5. They got 1.5 seasons of what they paid for. The rest will be shit.

Wandy is striking out 8.27 per nine and has 3.56 Ks to every walk. Not exactly "shit."

[RedSoxRooter]

This crap is not even funny anymore. It's just getting sad now.

[Thumper]

This crap is not even funny anymore. It's just getting sad now.

THEN GO HATE PEDRO MORE YOU THEO APOLOGIST!

KOOL-AID! :thumbsup:

[exsubmariner]

I always compared Clement to a deer in the headlights. When a batter got on base he became Mussina, except Mussina actually was actually quicker to the plate. So much movement on his pitches and he couldn't put it all together. gaaaah

[BoSox21]

Clement was never the same after getting drilled in the head. I find it sad he became a punchline in Boston cause he was an all-star after what he did at the beginning of the '05 season

[Thumper]

Clement was never the same after getting drilled in the head. I find it sad he became a punchline in Boston cause he was an all-star after what he did at the beginning of the '05 season

THEO APOLOGIST PEDRO HATER.

That;s getting old. But I do agree, he hasn't been the same since and that's not right for an All Star.