September 14th Vs Tampa Bay

[CrespoBlows]

BOS

Pedro Martinez 16-5 3.44

TB

Scott Kazmir 1-1 5.62

Hmm, a Devil Ray rookie, or the Red Sox ace? Not to hard to predict, the Sox offense comes out of the mini slump.

[elsrbueno]

not so fast.

Kasmir IS a top prospect, and the Red Sox got dominated TWICE by Seattle pitchers they should have hit.

It's a bit early to be posting for tomorrow's game, isn't it?

With NY playing KC, Anaheim playing Seattle, and Oakland playing Texas, it's highly likely that the Sox will lose ground if they don't sweep Tampa Bay in this series.

[element1151]

13th is a day off, the game is on the 14th.

[CrespoBlows]

oops, I thought we had a game today, must not be thinking. Sorry :blink:

[CrespoBlows]

Originally posted by elsrbueno@Sep 13 2004, 12:29 PM
not so fast.

Kasmir IS a top prospect, and the Red Sox got dominated TWICE by Seattle pitchers they should have hit.

It's a bit early to be posting for tomorrow's game, isn't it?

With NY playing KC, Anaheim playing Seattle, and Oakland playing Texas, it's highly likely that the Sox will lose ground if they don't sweep Tampa Bay in this series.
Texas isn't a bad team! Halsey pitches for the Yankees tonight, so not at all guarented. Anaheim lost games to the Blue Jays, not all games are so simple. Kazmir is a prospect, not an ace. I think people are too quick to project stardom

[elsrbueno]

Originally posted by CrespoBlows+Sep 13 2004, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CrespoBlows @ Sep 13 2004, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-elsrbueno@Sep 13 2004, 12:29 PM
not so fast.

Kasmir IS a top prospect, and the Red Sox got dominated TWICE by Seattle pitchers they should have hit.

It&#39;s a bit early to be posting for tomorrow&#39;s game, isn&#39;t it?

With NY playing KC, Anaheim playing Seattle, and Oakland playing Texas, it&#39;s highly likely that the Sox will lose ground if they don&#39;t sweep Tampa Bay in this series.
Texas isn&#39;t a bad team&#33; Halsey pitches for the Yankees tonight, so not at all guarented. Anaheim lost games to the Blue Jays, not all games are so simple. Kazmir is a prospect, not an ace. I think people are too quick to project stardom [/b][/quote]
I agree with you that there&#39;s no such thing is a sure-win... which is EXACTLY why I cautioned your optimism about tomorrow&#39;s game.

My point is that if the Red Sox take the "Easy game" attitude into the Tampa Bay series....they&#39;ll get beat.

It JUST happened in Seattle. This is a team that had lost 7 in a row, is struggling, playing with many AAA players, and split a 2-game set with us. We should have SWEPT them.

[empirestrikesback26]

My prediction for kaz is 9 inning 0 hits, 2 walks, 14 Ks. ;)

[Zenny]

Scott Kazmir is one of the least efficient major league pitchers out there. He&#39;s going to walk a lot of people and the Sox are going to jump all over every mistake he makes. He&#39;s going to be a good pitcher if he can stay healthy, but he&#39;s just too inefficient and wild at this point. Sox win this game, especially with the way Pedro is going.

[empirestrikesback26]

Never underestimate the talent in anything the mets deal away. If the mets traded him, he has to be good.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by empirestrikesback26@Sep 13 2004, 04:52 PM
Never underestimate the talent in anything the mets deal away. If the mets traded him, he has to be good.
Believe me, I know all about minor league baseball and I know exactly who Scott Kazmir is. He is not ready to be a consistent major league starting pitcher. He should be nowhere above AAA right now.

[empirestrikesback26]

mets traded him, he&#39;s good. That simple. PLus didn&#39;t he pitch 5 SO innings one time? He&#39;s ready.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by empirestrikesback26@Sep 13 2004, 05:50 PM
mets traded him, he&#39;s good. That simple. PLus didn&#39;t he pitch 5 SO innings one time? He&#39;s ready.
Dude, please believe me on this one. Netsporters know my reputation and what I&#39;m all about, back me up on this because he doesn&#39;t know. Scott Kazmir is not ready to be a full-time big league pitcher. He needs next season in AAA.

Yeah, he pitched 5 shut-out innings against the Tacoma Rainiers, I mean Seattle Mariners and walked 3 or 4 in those innings. Then he went out and got pounded by real offenses every time since (A&#39;s and Yankees, I believe). Scott Kazmir does not have the consistent stuff yet to be an ace. He could someday, he just doesn&#39;t have it yet and he needs to face hitters on his level.

[empirestrikesback26]

sure ;)

[empirestrikesback26]

yankees getting their asses handed to them. 33-3 the score.

[elsrbueno]

We got a little bit of help from KC&#33; Good to see. We still have our work cut out for us, being 3 games behind NY entering today&#39;s action.

The Yankee game:

Mussina vs Grienke

Mussina is 1-0 vs the Royals this season with a 2.57 ERA. He is also coming off his best start since returning from the DL. Is he on his way back? We can only hope his dominant performances his last 2 starts were as a result of facing Baltimore and Tampa... He did struggle through August against Toronto, Minnesota, and Cleveland. Kansas City has proven it can score runs...

Grienke enters this game on a bit of a roll too, 5-1 with a 3.30 ERA since Aug 1st. He hasn&#39;t faced the Yankees this season.

The Red Sox game:

Scott Kazmir, touted as one of the top lefty prospects in the game, certainly hasn&#39;t proven that he&#39;s capable of getting major league hitters out. Since throwing 5 shutout innings against Seattle in his debut, he&#39;s 0-1 in 3 games (2 starts) with a 8.18 ERA. As Zenny said, he has struggled with his control (13 walks over 16 innings) and has hardly dominated (allowing hitters a .288 BA) when he is hitting the strike zone. He&#39;s lefthanded, but lefties have hit .500 (7 for 14) against him. In fact, only 1 of his 17 strikeouts for the year have come against a lefty. He pitched well against New York (3 innings, 1 run, 2 hits, 4 Ks) but again, struggled with his control (3 walks). He&#39;ll get another test tonight against a Red Sox lineup that must be eager to score some runs after being shut out for just the THIRD time this season.

Pedro Martinez has been on fire of late. He&#39;s won his past 3 starts, and has not allowed a run in 16 consecutive innings. He&#39;s allowed just 1 run in his last 20 innings (3 starts) against Detroit, Texas, and Oakland. In his only outing against Tampa Bay this season: Pedro threw his only complete game of the season, a 6 hit shutout with 10 Ks.

The Red Sox will need to be patient with Kazmir, and make him throw strikes and work deep counts. When Kazmir gets in trouble, they need to TAKE ADVANTAGE of scoring opportunities. If Boston can get the lead early... Pedro usually settles down with the lead, and the bullpen, which has been much better lately, should hold it.

[mosox]

Three back but only two in the loss column. I&#39;m hoping Ortiz is back tonight, even against the lefty Kazmir. I also hope Dale Sveum knows who&#39;s is playing centerfield for the Devil Rays.

[sarasoxfan]

i think baldelli is hurt?

[stocker323]

Lineups

Devil Rays

Crawford LF
Lugo SS
Huff DH
Baldelli CF
Martinez 1B
Cruz RF
Upton 3B
Hall C
Cantu 2B

Red Sox

Damon CF
Bellhorn 2B
Ramirez LF
Ortiz DH
Varitek C
Millar 1B
Cabrera SS
Mueller 3B
Kapler RF

[YanksHater213]

apparently hes back...

[yeszir]

Pedro not looking so hot.....

[yeszir]

Shouldn&#39;t we be beating up on the D-Rays? Instead, Mueller just grounds into a DP to end the bases loaded inning.

[sarasoxfan]

i hate when this shit happens, and we make some young kid look like cy young. I know it s early but I have a bad vibe, and I hope I am wrong. Didnt the yankees just maul these kids.

Why did they take out bill and put in youk?

[sarasoxfan]

4 fucking walks, too.

[RedSoxRooter]

Ahh. Embree in and it&#39;s 3-0. Great.

Mueller tweaked his knee -- even better :angry:

The offense is starting to slump. Woohoo, just in time&#33; Thank God we are not playing anybody important this weekend. <_<

My army of minions.
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Zenny]

Kazmir hasn&#39;t been at all efficient, but we are making him look brilliant by K&#39;ing with two runners on, GIDP or getting picked off at 2B. Sloppy, sloppy game on all sides of the ball.

[CrespoBlows]

Sit Bellhorn for the rest of the year, he sucks&#33; I&#39;ve never seen anyone strike out as much as he does.

[Zenny]

I rarely scream at the television during a game, especially one against Tampa, but let me tell you, I was screaming, "GET OUT&#33; GET OUT&#33;" at that ball Trot just hit. I love this guy.

[elsrbueno]

This game is the kind of game that reminds me that I&#39;m a Red Sox fan. All the excitement we had a week ago is gone.

It&#39;s September, the Red Sox are playing like the Red Sox, and the Yankees are playing like the Yankees.

We have no prayer of catching them. We can only hope we can still get the wild card.

[empirestrikesback26]

yeah too bad the trot hr meant nothing.

[CrespoBlows]

Originally posted by elsrbueno@Sep 14 2004, 10:03 PM
This game is the kind of game that reminds me that I&#39;m a Red Sox fan. All the excitement we had a week ago is gone.

It&#39;s September, the Red Sox are playing like the Red Sox, and the Yankees are playing like the Yankees.

We have no prayer of catching them. We can only hope we can still get the wild card.
<_<

[RedSoxRooter]

He&#39;s right you know. I seriously think they peaked 1 month too soon. Oh so close.

If Pedro pitches like tonight on Sunday, we&#39;re screwed in the East.

[empirestrikesback26]

great post els.

[empirestrikesback26]

I was right about kazmir. You all doubted him. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE TALENT OF A PLAYER THE METS TRADE.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by empirestrikesback26@Sep 14 2004, 10:29 PM
I was right about kazmir. You all doubted him. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE TALENT OF A PLAYER THE METS TRADE.
Nobody doubted he had the stuff and ability to be an ace at some point down the line. He&#39;s one of the top 3 pitching prospects in the game; what we doubted was his ability to control his stuff at this stage of his career, as evidenced by the 13 walks in 16 innings leading up to this game. Even in this game, he was a bit off. He did give up a good deal of baserunners, but GIDP&#39;s and baserunning stupidity grounded the Sox.

I swear to God, you are awful at judging young talent and interpreting what we are talking about in young players. Nobody ever said Kazmir wasn&#39;t a fantastic young talent. What we said was that he&#39;s not quite ready for the Show yet. One game (or the one Navarro at-bat that you jerk off to) will not convince me of that. Players are not to be judged on one game or one at-bat.

[empirestrikesback26]

lol how in the hell can you say all that garbage after he just outpitched pedro? Hello? Did you watch the game? Don&#39;t blame it on DPs, he dominated and you know it.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by empirestrikesback26@Sep 14 2004, 10:47 PM
lol how in the hell can you say all that garbage after he just outpitched pedro? Hello? Did you watch the game? Don&#39;t blame it on DPs, he dominated and you know it.
He pitched a damn fine game, but he walked 3 guys and there were several times that he pitched out of jams. Damon got caught stealing, Millar got picked off at 2B and there were two GIDP&#39;s with runners on. If those had been different situations, Kazmir could have had the same number of IP&#39;s as ER&#39;s. I was very impressed with how he got out of those jams, though, and that is what seperates him from the rest of the pack. I am not denying that he is a good young pitcher, but he needs to be more consistent with the number of guys he allows on base.

[empirestrikesback26]

Originally posted by Zenny@Sep 13 2004, 04:43 PM
Scott Kazmir is one of the least efficient major league pitchers out there. He&#39;s going to walk a lot of people and the Sox are going to jump all over every mistake he makes. He&#39;s going to be a good pitcher if he can stay healthy, but he&#39;s just too inefficient and wild at this point. Sox win this game, especially with the way Pedro is going.
way off.

[yeszir]

Anaheim and Seattle are tied 0-0 in the 4th. For some reason everyone is now realizing that we&#39;re Red Sox fans, and we should be watching the wild card and praying, not rejoicing in a sure fire AL east win.

[empirestrikesback26]

4 games, this series colud put the sox back into it or put the dagger in thier hearts for the AL east.

[mosox]

Sox are now 0-7 against rookie pitchers they&#39;ve faced for the first time. It&#39;s a good thing the MFY don&#39;t have any pitchers at Columbus to bring up.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by empirestrikesback26@Sep 14 2004, 10:53 PM
way off.
That you for your brilliant two word insight. I&#39;m so glad you watched the game tonight to inform me of what happened. Goddamnit, I am really fucking sick of you.