yeszir
06-04-2007, 03:09 PM
I was 20 some years too late, but after reading this article, the similarities between this year's Yankee team and the '65 team seem many. The article is at http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/06/04/in_65_they_fell_off_in_a_ny_minute?mode=PF but since Boston.com sometimes makes you register to read content, I've copied and pasted it here.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even with all of these comparisons, I still don't feel entirely comfortable with the situation.
n '65, they fell off in a NY minute
By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff | June 4, 2007
1965: Not the happiest year in New York Yankees history.
Seasoned New York baseball observers say 2007 may be the new 1965, the year a Yankees juggernaut collapsed. If it is, Red Sox Nation could be reveling in Yankees misery for a few years, anyway.
The Yankees disintegrated in 1965, and no one saw it coming. The Yanks were the five-time defending American League champions, and were returning the same basic corps. The one change was in the dugout. Yogi Berra, losing manager in the 1964 World Series, was replaced by Johnny Keane, whose Cardinals had won it. That was pretty daring.
If anything, the team Mr. Keane was taking over appeared to be stronger than its predecessor since rookie sensation Mel Stottlemyre, who had gone 9-3, 2.06 after his call-up, would be with the team for the full season. And he did turn out to be worth the fuss, going 20-9, 2.63 in '65. That was pretty good pitching on a sixth-place club.
But the Yankees lost an 11-inning game to the Twins on Opening Day and things never really got better. After nine games, they were 3-6. They were 7-7 when they then lost a doubleheader to Baltimore. That was bad, but what happened a few days later was worse. They lost a doubleheader to the Washington Senators, falling to 8-12. Oh, the indignity! But, hey, it was still early, right?
The only problem was that it was already late pretty early for them, and they didn't know it.
Injuries were a major problem. Sound familiar?
Roger Maris was already out of the lineup by the beginning of May, and that was the prelude to a miserable season in which he would only get 155 at-bats and finish with eight homers and 27 ribbies. Mickey Mantle, an ancient 33, could only get into 122 games, good for 361 at-bats. He finished with 19 homers and 46 RBIs. Oh, and how about Elston Howard, the MVP in '63? Ellie, a beaten-up 36, fell from 150 games, 550 at-bats, and a .313-15-84 line, to 110 games, 391 at-bats, and a .233-9-45 line.
Tony Kubek, who never really had much luck after a very nice rookie season, was forced into retirement by a chronically bad back before the season drew to a close.
Few of the healthy regulars were able to "man up," as we like to say today. First baseman Joe Pepitone, already wasted at 24 because of his extracurricular activities, fell from .251-28-100 in '64 to .247-18-62 in '65. The only two regulars who even approximated their 1964 seasons were Tom Tresh and Clete Boyer.
The mound situation was no better. Stottlemyre and Whitey Ford combined to go 36-22, but Al Downing, the AL strikeout king in '64, stagnated in '65. But the real puzzle was Jim Bouton. After going 21-7 and 18-13 the two previous seasons to establish himself as a front-line starter, Bouton faded to 4-15, 4.82. Perhaps averaging 260 innings a year in '63 and '64 had something to do with it. At any rate, his arm was shot. He won only five more games in the next three seasons wearing the pinstripes and wasn't viable again until he re invented himself as a knuckleballer later in the decade.
As the Yankees stumbled through a lackluster April and May, few were ready to accept the idea that they weren't just going through a little recession. You kept waiting and waiting for them to get it together. But mid- to late June people recognized there was a crisis, and so great attention was focused on a series with the first-place Twins the weekend of June 18-20. If the Yankees could do some damage, they reasoned, perhaps this would be the turning point in the season.
Eleven games behind Minnesota as the series began, the Yankees won by a 10-2 score Friday night as homers by Maris, Mantle, Ross Moschitto, and Phil Linz backed up Bill Stafford. Ford beat Mudcat Grant Saturday (5-3), and now the focus was on the Sunday doubleheader.
It was Bat Day, and a crowd of 72,244 (71,245 paid) jammed the real Yankee Stadium. The massive crowd would not go home in a good mood. The Twins swept, 6-4 and 7-4, as Harmon Killebrew had a homer and double in each game, driving in a total of four runs. (His second-inning ground-rule double in Game 1 one-hopped the 457-foot sign.) Newly acquired reliever Bobby Tiefenauer threw the match in the gas tank in each game.
"When yesterday's crowd was announced," wrote the great Leonard Koppett, "the organist played 'We're in the Money.' But after the seventh inning of the first game, it seemed unlikely the Yankees would be in it at the end of the season."
There was still a long way to go, but the Yankees were spiritually wounded, and they had another doubleheader to play the following evening. Mr. Koppett outlined the situation in the morning New York Times. "When the Kansas City Athletics begin a four-game series at Yankee Stadium tonight in a doubleheader starting at 5 p.m.," he wrote, "they will perform the same function for the New York Yankees that a small mirror does when placed under the lips of a dying man; they will reveal whether there is any visible sign of life."
All the Yankees could get was a split of those four games, and that wasn't good enough to resuscitate the patient. By July 11, they were 14 1/2 out. By Aug. 7, it was 17. By Sept. 7, it was 20. They would finish in sixth place, 25 games behind the Twins. The Yankees fell to last place in 1966, and Keane didn't make it out of April. It would be 10 years before they would win a pennant again.
Well, it's early June and people are waiting and waiting and waiting for the 2007 Yankees to lay some breath on the little mirror. There are old players breaking down (i.e. Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon) and a key starter (Mike Mussina) is perhaps going Bouton on them. And they've got their own Tiefenauers in the pen.
True, the mathematics are in their favor. But it's starting to look very late way too early and a 44-year-old savior who's already hurt before he even starts is probably not the answer to their prayers.
As the deposed 1964 manager would say, "2007 looks like 1965 deja vu all over again."
Not to beat a dead horse, but even with all of these comparisons, I still don't feel entirely comfortable with the situation.
n '65, they fell off in a NY minute
By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff | June 4, 2007
1965: Not the happiest year in New York Yankees history.
Seasoned New York baseball observers say 2007 may be the new 1965, the year a Yankees juggernaut collapsed. If it is, Red Sox Nation could be reveling in Yankees misery for a few years, anyway.
The Yankees disintegrated in 1965, and no one saw it coming. The Yanks were the five-time defending American League champions, and were returning the same basic corps. The one change was in the dugout. Yogi Berra, losing manager in the 1964 World Series, was replaced by Johnny Keane, whose Cardinals had won it. That was pretty daring.
If anything, the team Mr. Keane was taking over appeared to be stronger than its predecessor since rookie sensation Mel Stottlemyre, who had gone 9-3, 2.06 after his call-up, would be with the team for the full season. And he did turn out to be worth the fuss, going 20-9, 2.63 in '65. That was pretty good pitching on a sixth-place club.
But the Yankees lost an 11-inning game to the Twins on Opening Day and things never really got better. After nine games, they were 3-6. They were 7-7 when they then lost a doubleheader to Baltimore. That was bad, but what happened a few days later was worse. They lost a doubleheader to the Washington Senators, falling to 8-12. Oh, the indignity! But, hey, it was still early, right?
The only problem was that it was already late pretty early for them, and they didn't know it.
Injuries were a major problem. Sound familiar?
Roger Maris was already out of the lineup by the beginning of May, and that was the prelude to a miserable season in which he would only get 155 at-bats and finish with eight homers and 27 ribbies. Mickey Mantle, an ancient 33, could only get into 122 games, good for 361 at-bats. He finished with 19 homers and 46 RBIs. Oh, and how about Elston Howard, the MVP in '63? Ellie, a beaten-up 36, fell from 150 games, 550 at-bats, and a .313-15-84 line, to 110 games, 391 at-bats, and a .233-9-45 line.
Tony Kubek, who never really had much luck after a very nice rookie season, was forced into retirement by a chronically bad back before the season drew to a close.
Few of the healthy regulars were able to "man up," as we like to say today. First baseman Joe Pepitone, already wasted at 24 because of his extracurricular activities, fell from .251-28-100 in '64 to .247-18-62 in '65. The only two regulars who even approximated their 1964 seasons were Tom Tresh and Clete Boyer.
The mound situation was no better. Stottlemyre and Whitey Ford combined to go 36-22, but Al Downing, the AL strikeout king in '64, stagnated in '65. But the real puzzle was Jim Bouton. After going 21-7 and 18-13 the two previous seasons to establish himself as a front-line starter, Bouton faded to 4-15, 4.82. Perhaps averaging 260 innings a year in '63 and '64 had something to do with it. At any rate, his arm was shot. He won only five more games in the next three seasons wearing the pinstripes and wasn't viable again until he re invented himself as a knuckleballer later in the decade.
As the Yankees stumbled through a lackluster April and May, few were ready to accept the idea that they weren't just going through a little recession. You kept waiting and waiting for them to get it together. But mid- to late June people recognized there was a crisis, and so great attention was focused on a series with the first-place Twins the weekend of June 18-20. If the Yankees could do some damage, they reasoned, perhaps this would be the turning point in the season.
Eleven games behind Minnesota as the series began, the Yankees won by a 10-2 score Friday night as homers by Maris, Mantle, Ross Moschitto, and Phil Linz backed up Bill Stafford. Ford beat Mudcat Grant Saturday (5-3), and now the focus was on the Sunday doubleheader.
It was Bat Day, and a crowd of 72,244 (71,245 paid) jammed the real Yankee Stadium. The massive crowd would not go home in a good mood. The Twins swept, 6-4 and 7-4, as Harmon Killebrew had a homer and double in each game, driving in a total of four runs. (His second-inning ground-rule double in Game 1 one-hopped the 457-foot sign.) Newly acquired reliever Bobby Tiefenauer threw the match in the gas tank in each game.
"When yesterday's crowd was announced," wrote the great Leonard Koppett, "the organist played 'We're in the Money.' But after the seventh inning of the first game, it seemed unlikely the Yankees would be in it at the end of the season."
There was still a long way to go, but the Yankees were spiritually wounded, and they had another doubleheader to play the following evening. Mr. Koppett outlined the situation in the morning New York Times. "When the Kansas City Athletics begin a four-game series at Yankee Stadium tonight in a doubleheader starting at 5 p.m.," he wrote, "they will perform the same function for the New York Yankees that a small mirror does when placed under the lips of a dying man; they will reveal whether there is any visible sign of life."
All the Yankees could get was a split of those four games, and that wasn't good enough to resuscitate the patient. By July 11, they were 14 1/2 out. By Aug. 7, it was 17. By Sept. 7, it was 20. They would finish in sixth place, 25 games behind the Twins. The Yankees fell to last place in 1966, and Keane didn't make it out of April. It would be 10 years before they would win a pennant again.
Well, it's early June and people are waiting and waiting and waiting for the 2007 Yankees to lay some breath on the little mirror. There are old players breaking down (i.e. Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon) and a key starter (Mike Mussina) is perhaps going Bouton on them. And they've got their own Tiefenauers in the pen.
True, the mathematics are in their favor. But it's starting to look very late way too early and a 44-year-old savior who's already hurt before he even starts is probably not the answer to their prayers.
As the deposed 1964 manager would say, "2007 looks like 1965 deja vu all over again."