Wily Mo Pena

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I got to wondering during today's game. How does Wily Mo fit into our future plans? There's Manny and Crisp, now Drew locked up long term, with Ellsbury coming up to play center by 2008 or 2009. And with the prospect of signing Ichiro or Andruw Jones (maybe...) where does Wily Mo fit in? Could he be trade bait at the deadline?

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he will be traded for 50 cents on the dollar at the deadline for some bullpen help.

[riverside sluggers]

KTF, Ellsbury can play center & center only. A signing of Jones or Ichiro would negate his future plans with the Sox unless they want to lug him around as a backup outfielder.

Tito promised Wily Mo he would get 400 ABs... ok when will this happen? Through the first 6 games, he has had a total of 2 plate appearances. If he were to stay with the Sox, I could see him being prepped to take over for Manny after the 08 season

If Crisp keeps going at the pace he's at, he could find himself being shopped around to teams during the deadline

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Well if we got Jones, he'd probably be moved to left after a year or two with Manny possibly departing...Braves announcers often talk about how the Braves are considering moving Jones to a corner spot to keep him from wearing down. And if we got Ichiro, he could move to right and Drew to left when Manny goes. It could be a real logjam...

[jacksonianmarch]

Well if we got Jones, he'd probably be moved to left after a year or two with Manny possibly departing...Braves announcers often talk about how the Braves are considering moving Jones to a corner spot to keep him from wearing down. And if we got Ichiro, he could move to right and Drew to left when Manny goes. It could be a real logjam...

who knows what the sox will do. Jones will be available, but will the sox meet the demands? Ichiro too? Cmon now. Jones will get a Manny contract and even with his power, he is no Manny. The last thing you want is another latin player who doesnt speak to the media all that much roaming Boston's OF for the next 7 yrs.

I really think the sox end up with Torii Hunter. He is the cheaper version who will be the better CFer.

[a700hitter]

Tito promised Wily Mo he would get 400 ABs...Tito didn't say with which team.

[TedWilliams101]

I don't ever want to see WMP as an everyday player on the Red Sox. Hes junk. My grandmother is a better fielder than him. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and shows absolutely no signs of being clutch in even the slightest bit. For a power hitter, thats a problem. I much rather have a player that hits for average, puts on good at bats, gets on base, is a reliable fielder (or better a great fielder) than someone who has crazy power but thats about it. He's just a more powerful version of Adam Dunn, but without any fielding skillz. For a team like the Red Sox, thats USELESS.

[riverside sluggers]

I don't ever want to see WMP as an everyday player on the Red Sox. Hes junk. My grandmother is a better fielder than him. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and shows absolutely no signs of being clutch in even the slightest bit. For a power hitter, thats a problem. I much rather have a player that hits for average, puts on good at bats, gets on base, is a reliable fielder (or better a great fielder) than someone who has crazy power but thats about it. He's just a more powerful version of Adam Dunn, but without any fielding skillz. For a team like the Red Sox, thats USELESS.

Right now Id take him anyday over Crisp

[a700hitter]

Right now Id take him anyday over CrispI wouldn't. Crisp is starting to make good contact, and he has the element of speed. WMP is helpless against above-average pitching. He waves at 3 and sits down.

[riverside sluggers]

Then whats the use of having him sit on the bench for probably the next 156 games of the season?

[jacksonianmarch]

WMP could be a very good statmonger if given a lot of time. Over time, he could be a monster, but he hasnt had the regular at bats to develop into the hitter he should be.

[a700hitter]

Then whats the use of having him sit on the bench for probably the next 156 games of the season?Once they start playing every day, Tito will probably give each of the OF's a day off each week or 1 0 days. That's 3 games in the OF. Ortiz might sit against Santana or another tough lefty. Ortiz might also spell Youk at first. I could see him easily getting 300-325 ABs with no injuries. He'll get 400+ if there are one or two injuries. Also, let's not forget Manny's annual mid-season burn out/refusal to play.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I don't ever want to see WMP as an everyday player on the Red Sox. Hes junk. My grandmother is a better fielder than him. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and shows absolutely no signs of being clutch in even the slightest bit. For a power hitter, thats a problem. I much rather have a player that hits for average, puts on good at bats, gets on base, is a reliable fielder (or better a great fielder) than someone who has crazy power but thats about it. He's just a more powerful version of Adam Dunn, but without any fielding skillz. For a team like the Red Sox, thats USELESS.

A more powerful version of Adam Dunn is of no use to the Sox? Maybe you're more Moneyball than I am, but a guy who hits over 40 HRs and close to 100 RBIS (in this lineup, it'd easily be 100 if he hits that many HRs) has value on ANY team. ANY team.

WMP hit over .300 last year...that's not a high enough average for you?

When do you want him to become a better fielder? While sitting on the bench? The only thing holding WMP back is experience...once he gets that, he's going to be an absolute force. I want the Sox to be the team to take advantage of that. He may never be an outstanding fielder...but he could at least be presentable. Manny isn't winning any Gold Gloves, you know...

Of course WMP needs some refining...but the best thing about the whole situation is that he's still a baby and has time to learn and get better. Numerous scouts have said that WMP is the most powerful pure hitter in all of baseball. ALL OF BASEBALL...I'm not ready to give up on that just yet.

[TheKilo]

I don't ever want to see WMP as an everyday player on the Red Sox. Hes junk. My grandmother is a better fielder than him. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and shows absolutely no signs of being clutch in even the slightest bit. For a power hitter, thats a problem. I much rather have a player that hits for average, puts on good at bats, gets on base, is a reliable fielder (or better a great fielder) than someone who has crazy power but thats about it. He's just a more powerful version of Adam Dunn, but without any fielding skillz. For a team like the Red Sox, thats USELESS.

You can stop talking out of your ass now.

Adam Dunn is one of the best hitters in baseball. Like HoSN said, he sports 40+ HRs, and 100+ RBIs per year, plus he's an OBP machine.

If WMP even approaches the plate discipline of Dunn, I'll do backflips.

[TedWilliams101]

I wouln't like to see Adam Dunn on the Red Sox. He nearly struck out 200 time last season. As I said, I'd much rather having a guy who is more of an over all player than one who just hits homeruns. The only thing WMP has going for him is power. He shows no plate discipline what so ever and I don't see that changing, its one of the hardest things to change. You either have it or you don't. I'm not saying no one has ever gone from having terrible plate discipline and vision to improving it to above average, but it is a very hard thing to do and is rare to be accomplished. He also is a liability on the field.

The reason he hit above .300 last season is because no one in our league knew him. If you noticed, by the end of the season and in the spring, pitchers started to learn how to pitch to him. If you throw him lots of offspeed pitches that break off the plate, he's done for.

Also, as a team, he doesn't fit in. They have Manny, Ortiz, and Drew for there big power guys. They don't need another that can't do anyting else. What they need is an all-around outfielder, like Coco. Hopefully Coco will find himself and look like the '05 Coco. He has tons of tallent. If he doesn't regain his form, then Ellsbury is waiting. I think he will be a great lead-off hitter for us, which is what we really need. Coco is fine for this year. If you want another OF to replace Manny or Coco next season (or both), look to FA and maybe Ellsbury.

[BruinsFan]

You know, as much as this is annoying, it really isn't that bad of a problem to have. Because the sox have a log jam, someone is going to have to go, and we can use one of them for trade bait for some relievers. If ellsbury lives up to his potential, then there is no need for a long term contract with hunter, jones, or ichiro. However, the x factor is manny. If manny sticks around, then we can have the 08 outfield be Manny, Ellsbury, Drew.
My prediction is that willy mo or crisp will be gone by the trade deadline. However, they are going to need to figure out center for this year, and Crisp is going to have to start HITTING!

[ORS]

We need more Coco Crisps and less Adam Dunns? It is amazing some of you are able to tie your shoes.

[EvilDonut]

I wouln't like to see Adam Dunn on the Red Sox. He nearly struck out 200 time last season. As I said, I'd much rather having a guy who is more of an over all player than one who just hits homeruns. The only thing WMP has going for him is power. He shows no plate discipline what so ever and I don't see that changing, its one of the hardest things to change. You either have it or you don't. I'm not saying no one has ever gone from having terrible plate discipline and vision to improving it to above average, but it is a very hard thing to do and is rare to be accomplished. He also is a liability on the field.

The reason he hit above .300 last season is because no one in our league knew him. If you noticed, by the end of the season and in the spring, pitchers started to learn how to pitch to him. If you throw him lots of offspeed pitches that break off the plate, he's done for.

Also, as a team, he doesn't fit in. They have Manny, Ortiz, and Drew for there big power guys. They don't need another that can't do anyting else. What they need is an all-around outfielder, like Coco. Hopefully Coco will find himself and look like the '05 Coco. He has tons of tallent. If he doesn't regain his form, then Ellsbury is waiting. I think he will be a great lead-off hitter for us, which is what we really need. Coco is fine for this year. If you want another OF to replace Manny or Coco next season (or both), look to FA and maybe Ellsbury.


Ok, to simplify this, i'll turn Power hitters into Cookies.

Whats better, 3 cookies, or 4 cookies?

Also, referring the WMP being figured out by opposing pitchers, his BA dropped maybe 20 points in from ths AS break. From a .325ish to .301 by the end of the season. You can't say it's because he was figured out, it could of been lack of consistant at bats or just genuine fatigue.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouln't like to see Adam Dunn on the Red Sox. He nearly struck out 200 time last season. As I said, I'd much rather having a guy who is more of an over all player than one who just hits homeruns. The only thing WMP has going for him is power. He shows no plate discipline what so ever and I don't see that changing, its one of the hardest things to change. You either have it or you don't. I'm not saying no one has ever gone from having terrible plate discipline and vision to improving it to above average, but it is a very hard thing to do and is rare to be accomplished. He also is a liability on the field.

The reason he hit above .300 last season is because no one in our league knew him. If you noticed, by the end of the season and in the spring, pitchers started to learn how to pitch to him. If you throw him lots of offspeed pitches that break off the plate, he's done for.

Also, as a team, he doesn't fit in. They have Manny, Ortiz, and Drew for there big power guys. They don't need another that can't do anyting else. What they need is an all-around outfielder, like Coco. Hopefully Coco will find himself and look like the '05 Coco. He has tons of tallent. If he doesn't regain his form, then Ellsbury is waiting. I think he will be a great lead-off hitter for us, which is what we really need. Coco is fine for this year. If you want another OF to replace Manny or Coco next season (or both), look to FA and maybe Ellsbury.


I would love it if your offense turned into the twins circa the turn of the century. All slap hitters, no power and no RBI men.

[ksushi]

Strike outs really aren't that terrible a way to get out. I would rather have a power hitter who can hit around .280 and drive in a lot of runs and strike out than a contact hitter that doesn't drive the ball as much but strikes out much less. If you have guys on base, you want to see a big swinging power hitter at the plate, not the contact guy. The contact guy might not strike out, but might hit into a DP. A big power guy like Adam Dunn who has a .5something slugging percentage has a better chance to drive in more runs and if he gets out, it will most likely be a K, taking down only himself and keeping the rally alive.

[TedWilliams101]

We dont need another big slugger, we already have 3. Ortiz and Drew are going to be here for a while and Manny could be here another 2 years. I said that WE don't need Willy Mo. We need a great fielder and all-around player. We need a lead off hitter. If WMP learned better plate discipline and became an average fielder, than I'd love to have him. But unless that happens, I want him on the bench or on another team.

[jacksonianmarch]

We dont need another big slugger, we already have 3. Ortiz and Drew are going to be here for a while and Manny could be here another 2 years. I said that WE don't need Willy Mo. We need a great fielder and all-around player. We need a lead off hitter. If WMP learned better plate discipline and became an average fielder, than I'd love to have him. But unless that happens, I want him on the bench or on another team.

if you had no prototypical leadoff hitter and 9 power hitters, you'd be pretty damn good. If your lineup had no power hitters but all 9 prototypical leadoff hitters, your team would be crappy. If WMP reaches his potential, he could be a force.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

We dont need another big slugger, we already have 3. Ortiz and Drew are going to be here for a while and Manny could be here another 2 years. I said that WE don't need Willy Mo. We need a great fielder and all-around player. We need a lead off hitter. If WMP learned better plate discipline and became an average fielder, than I'd love to have him. But unless that happens, I want him on the bench or on another team.

Are you aware that we're talking about baseball? That's a serious question. I'm honest to God thinking that you must be confusing our sport with another. Since when can a team have TOO MANY power hitters? WMP has never gotten the consistent at-bats needed for him to DEVELOP plate discipline. You're right in saying that it's difficult to develop...but it's surely NOT something that can be developed in the cage. Guys need to get in the box in game situations, see pitches, take pitches, and swing away at pitches in order to develop from a free-swinger. The same goes for development in the field...my dad and I used to go to the fields all the time and he'd hit me fly ball after fly ball all over the outfield and I could track them all down...does that mean I cound play a competent outfield for the Sox? Of course not. He needs to get in there and see what it's like and get some experience. To hold him to any kind of standard when he hasn't had the same opportunities as other guys is completley unfair. IMO, WMP has taken the few opportunities he's been given and ran with them. When a guy can't count on playing everyday and, when he is going to play, doesn't know WHERE he's going to play...and then he comes out and hits over .300 with a lot of pop? I like what I see. He's a diamond in the rough...we need to give him the opportunity to be dug out and refined.

[adam123]

Willy mo pop up needs to go he sucks in the field ,strikes out all the time . I really think we can get more for him than crisp .. plus crisp is cheaper

[jacksonianmarch]

Willy mo pop up needs to go he sucks in the field ,strikes out all the time . I really think we can get more for him than crisp .. plus crisp is cheaper

corner, now. Crisp is more expensive by far and yeah, um, shit you are seriously making me dumber.

Adam and Teddy should be pitted against each other in an IQ battle royale. And no, the lower numbers are not good.

[adam123]

corner, now. Crisp is more expensive by far and yeah, um, shit you are seriously making me dumber.

Adam and Teddy should be pitted against each other in an IQ battle royale. And no, the lower numbers are not good.

dude go start shit with someone else .. give it a rest your views are not the best either so lay off the rest of us we come here to have fun not to hear you rag everyone that does not share your view .People have opinions go talk about wakee shit like how there team sucks dick :angry:

[adam123]

Come on man willy mo stinks .. lets see how good any of us does with broken finger and tons of pressure .. not to good its still first week of season .. so hes still got time to shape up

[jacksonianmarch]

dude go start shit with someone else .. give it a rest your views are not the best either so lay off the rest of us we come here to have fun not to hear you rag everyone that does not share your view .People have opinions go talk about wakee shit like how there team sucks dick :angry:


Adam, I'm not gonna lie to you, but that post is inconceivably stupid. I want you to place your hands off the keyboard, press the power button on your computer and think about how dumb the above post is. Once you come to some sort of peace with your inner retard and make a promise that he wont show up any time soon, you can log back on and share some thoughts that dont need a secret decoder ring to uncover. I swear the shit I left in the toilet this morning has clearer thoughts than you do.

[jacksonianmarch]

Come on man willy mo stinks .. lets see how good any of us does with broken finger and tons of pressure .. not to good its still first week of season .. so hes still got time to shape up

http://www.myxertones.com/tn/c/15523/big/

I GOT MAIL!

[TheKilo]

Come on man willy mo stinks .. lets see how good any of us does with broken finger and tons of pressure .. not to good its still first week of season .. so hes still got time to shape up

How the fuck can you have a valid opinion of WMP if he never fucking plays?

[adam123]

So were suppose to just wait till he plays ..the guy is a could of should of .. player if he so good why is he on the bench . I am really tierd of hearing well if he gets at bats he will come around if he cant play full time than dump him already . just give me arroyo back at least he plays

[castigs850]

before the season i was kinda hoping Drew would get injured so WMP could get a bit of playing time, now that i have changed my mind seeing how good drew is playing, sit crisp and put Pena in

[HeadOfSoxNation]

So were suppose to just wait till he plays ..the guy is a could of should of .. player if he so good why is he on the bench . I am really tierd of hearing well if he gets at bats he will come around if he cant play full time than dump him already . just give me arroyo back at least he plays

Freddy Sanchez wasn't a starter...then he became one because of an injury and won a batting title.

Tiki Barber wasn't a starter...then he became one because of an injury and became one of the top 5 HBs in the NFL.

David Ortiz wasn't an everyday player...then he became one and now he's David FREAKING Ortiz.

Larry Johnson wasn't a starter...then he became on because of an injury and now he's one of the top 5 HBs in the NFL.

Gilbert Arenas wasn't a starter...then he became one and is now one of the top 10 players in the NBA.

Jonathan Papelbon wasn't a closer in the bigs...then he became one because of an injury and now he's one of the most dominant closers in the game.

Do you want more examples of guys needing to be afforded opportunities? Or is this enough for you? I even gave you multiple sports because it's clear you're not very baseball-minded...

[adam123]

ok but how many time does he get first with yankees , than with cincy , now us come on how much time does he need . you all act like your baseball gods come on if your so smart why dont you work for the sox .. oh .. you dont

[redsoxrules]

before the season i was kinda hoping Drew would get injured so WMP could get a bit of playing time,

are you serious ...why?.... drew is better than WMP, he always has been so why would you want him injured to replace him with someone thats not as good

[jacksonianmarch]

So were suppose to just wait till he plays ..the guy is a could of should of .. player if he so good why is he on the bench . I am really tierd of hearing well if he gets at bats he will come around if he cant play full time than dump him already . just give me arroyo back at least he plays

omg, This is like trying to teach calculus to a second grader.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

ok but how many time does he get first with yankees , than with cincy , now us come on how much time does he need . you all act like your baseball gods come on if your so smart why dont you work for the sox .. oh .. you dont

If by "act like your baseball gods" you mean "use proper grammar, capitalization, are able to comprehend simple baseball facts and defend your opinions coherently" then yes, I am a God. Pray to me, mortal.

[adam123]

ok sanchez ok but now hes on dl , tiki barber not top 5 rb in leauge lj hes good big papi good paps great ..

[jacksonianmarch]

ok but how many time does he get first with yankees , than with cincy , now us come on how much time does he need . you all act like your baseball gods come on if your so smart why dont you work for the sox .. oh .. you dont

adam, he signed with the yankees and his dumbass agent held out for a major league contract. Hence, he couldnt be sent down. That is why he had had so much trouble. It isnt like he doesnt have a world of talent. My god, you are dumber than a sack of hair.

[jacksonianmarch]

ok sanchez ok but now hes on dl , tiki barber not top 5 rb in leauge lj hes good big papi good paps great ..

I'll take mind fuck for 2000 alex.

[adam123]

ok but talent doesnt amount to shit if you suck and dont play thats why cincy was like sure have him .. but forget it youll never see my opinion its a waste of time

[HeadOfSoxNation]

ok sanchez ok but now hes on dl , tiki barber not top 5 rb in leauge lj hes good big papi good paps great ..

Sanchez is off the DL...and even if he wasn't, what does that have to do with ANYTHING? Everyday players aren't allowed to ever get hurt?

Barber was a top 5 HB.

You know what? I can't believe I'm even a participant in this conversation. I'm done.

[jacksonianmarch]

ok but talent doesnt amount to shit if you suck and dont play thats why cincy was like sure have him .. but forget it youll never see my opinion its a waste of time

if you have talent, you typically dont suck. And yes, trying to weed out your opinion from the broken sentences and slack jawed yokelism in your typing is a waste of time. Like I said before, you type like your computer had a stroke.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

but forget it youll never see my opinion

Agreed! Well said Adam! If you hadn't of preceded that with a bunch of other jibberish that lacked substance, I'd say that was a solid post! Unfortunately, you did. But hey...try again if you wish!

[TheKilo]

OH MY GOD IF HE DOESNT PLAY HE WONT CONTRIBUTE OFFENSIVELY.

[adam123]

TYPICAL NEW YORKERS THINK THEY KNOW ALL . FUCK YOU GUYS

[adam123]

You know what i will give my 2004 world series baseball signed by team to you guys if will mo pop up has over 20 homers of course he wont

[jacksonianmarch]

TYPICAL NEW YORKERS THINK THEY KNOW ALL . FUCK YOU GUYS

You know, aside from me, you have been arguing with red sox fans. You are dumber than a sack of shit.

[jacksonianmarch]

You know what i will give my 2004 world series baseball signed by team to you guys if will mo pop up has over 20 homers of course he wont

you know, if you sign all the names yourself, it doesnt mean the ball is worth anything.


Loook gys, uits a balll sined buy the intire red sockxs chomps!!

Daveed Urteez!! Many Rameriz!! Bill Moolar!! Doug MOHTIOOUDKHKHITOHOLH!!

[TGov]

You know what i will give my 2004 world series baseball signed by team to you guys if will mo pop up has over 20 homers of course he wont

He's not an everyday player and half of everyday players don't even hit 20 homers anyway...

[EvilDonut]

You know what i will give my 2004 world series baseball signed by team to you guys if will mo pop up has over 20 homers of course he wont

He had 11 HRs in 270 some inconsistant at bats, give him 400 and 20 is a definite possiblity.

When he does, who gets the ball, we cant split it that many ways, and Jackson will just sell it.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

TYPICAL NEW YORKERS THINK THEY KNOW ALL . FUCK YOU GUYS

Nice rebuttal.

[CrespoBlows]

you know, if you sign all the names yourself, it doesnt mean the ball is worth anything.


Loook gys, uits a balll sined buy the intire red sockxs chomps!!

Daveed Urteez!! Many Rameriz!! Bill Moolar!! Doug MOHTIOOUDKHKHITOHOLH!!

:lol:

[riverside sluggers]

He had 11 HRs in 270 some inconsistant at bats, give him 400 and 20 is a definite possiblity.

When he does, who gets the ball, we cant split it that many ways, and Jackson will just sell it.

Keep in mind also that he was dealing with a sore wrist throughout 2006. We're talking about the range of 15 +/- HRs

[Mr Crunchy]

ok sanchez ok but now hes on dl , tiki barber not top 5 rb in leauge lj hes good big papi good paps great ..

i think there are laws about abusing the mentally challenged so i will tread lightly here

adam
i saw sanchez play on sunday afternoon
unless he got dl'd yesterday youre wrong here

as far as pena goes

did he break .200 in the dominican league?
he was god awful in the begining,under .100 i believe in his 1st 30abs??

did he have his shot last year and end up hurt and then ineffective upon his return as well as scaring the shit out of us all in the field??

we all want him to succeed
the problem is his ability,nothing else

i think if the front office had intentions of this man being important they wouldnt have inked drew to a 5/70M contract

[rician blast]

Crunch...

Norwood, Ma. What's it like? Shit hole? Nice town?

My kid has a doubleheader some weekend this spring up there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Crunch...

Norwood, Ma. What's it like? Shit hole? Nice town?

My kid has a doubleheader some weekend this spring up there.

nice place, I have family there. Quiet, little suburb of Boston, no crime for the most part.

[Mr Crunchy]

norwoods nice jim
about 20 miles from here just north of the gillette stadium on route 1
richie hebner is from norwood

lots of 25.00 rooms along that stretch of route 1

[rician blast]

thanks guys.

[schillingouttheks]

It's a nice place. I have cousins who live in Walpole, which borders Norwood. It's quiet, nice, relaxing and convenient. Pretty cheap, too (good value all around...food, stores, etc.)

[Mr Crunchy]

i have 2 cousins in walpole
1 who was born there and owns a landscaping business and went to umass and played hockey
the other didnt grow up there but got sent there for life and a day
and wont be leaving there without a hearse escort

if youre in norwood and need a bite
go to the red wing on the south bound side of rte 1 maybe 2-3 miles from the stadium
how old is your son??
i can arrange the prostitution if you'd like

[v2freak]

I'm not too impressed with WMP right now either, but I don't think there are any gaping weaknesses withe the Red Sox at the moment other than a subpar bullpen.

[Mr Crunchy]

i think if you were looking for weaknesses it would be power at the corners and a questionable middle defense(book is still open on this)
along with the pen being sketchy and the #5 starter eating it

[jacksonianmarch]

i think if you were looking for weaknesses it would be power at the corners and a questionable middle defense(book is still open on this)
along with the pen being sketchy and the #5 starter eating it

how about offense from the bottom of the order?

[riverside sluggers]

I'm not too impressed with WMP right now either, but I don't think there are any gaping weaknesses withe the Red Sox at the moment other than a subpar bullpen.

Yea because Wily Mo Pena has had a grand total of 3 ABs this year to prove himself :rolleyes:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/04/11/have_they_hit_on_something_vs_ichiro/?page=2
Wily Mo will finally get his first start tomorrow vs lefty Jarrod Washburn, Gordon Edes indicated it will be in place of the hot hitting JD Drew. Coco gets to stay in the game because he is 10 for 18 against Washburn. Hey wake... uh so here's the probable lineup. Heres a stat I dont like hearing: In 17 out of his last 24 starts, the offense has given Wake an average of 1.5 runs

1. Julio Lugo ss
2. Youkilis 1b
3. Ortiz dh
4. Ramirez lf
5. Lowell 3b
6. Wily Mo rf
7. Crisp cf
8. Mirabelli c
9. Pedroia 2b

Also Terry has finally given into teh obvious that JC Romero will be the lefty specialist, Okajima will be the lefty reliever who can throw multiple innings at times

[v2freak]

Yea because Wily Mo Pena has had a grand total of 3 ABs this year to prove himself :rolleyes:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/04/11/have_they_hit_on_something_vs_ichiro/?page=2
Wily Mo will finally get his first start tomorrow vs lefty Jarrod Washburn, Gordon Edes indicated it will be in place of the hot hitting JD Drew. Coco gets to stay in the game because he is 10 for 18 against Washburn. Hey wake... uh so here's the probable lineup. Heres a stat I dont like hearing: In 17 out of his last 24 starts, the offense has given Wake an average of 1.5 runs

1. Julio Lugo ss
2. Youkilis 1b
3. Ortiz dh
4. Ramirez lf
5. Lowell 3b
6. Wily Mo rf
7. Crisp cf
8. Mirabelli c
9. Pedroia 2b

Also Terry has finally given into teh obvious that JC Romero will be the lefty specialist, Okajima will be the lefty reliever who can throw multiple innings at times

I'm glad you think I gauge a player with consideration only to the start of a season.

[75FiskPole]

He is only 25. Manny is 35. When Theo acquired him he compared him to a young Manny. I think they will platoon him for now, but see him as replacement for Manny in the next few years. He won't be as good, more like a combination of Manny and Papi, with all of their bad traits as well.

[jacksonianmarch]

whoever compared him to a young Manny doesnt really know what they are talking about. Wily is a young Dave Kingman. All or nothing power without a real idea of what a strike zone is.

The only kid I have heard the "young Manny" tag line is in Tampa right now and that's Jose Tabata. I never agree with calling a kid in A+ ball a young anybody, but he is the only one recently that I remember the term "young Manny" being used on.

[BSN07]

With a little more power I think Miguel Cabrerra could work himself into the Manny like talk...

[jacksonianmarch]

With a little more power I think Miguel Cabrerra could work himself into the Manny like talk...

Miguel Cabrera is better than Manny was at a younger age. But aside from that and their position, your analogy is pretty good. Both high AVG, high power, guys with a great eye.

[ORS]

Miguel Cabrera is going to enter Pujols territory this year. Maybe even better. He'll get the next ARod-like contract when he's an FA.

[BSN07]

He even looks like a young Manny LOL I wouldn't mind seeing him playing the hot corner for about 7 years with his numbers looking the way they do, he can play 1B and OF pretty decent too so hes versatile on top of everything else...

[ORS]

Why would you want him at any other position than 3B? That is the one highest on the defensive spectrum, so it's where his offensive value is maximized.

[BSN07]

I know this, I was just saying if need be he can play other spots were as Manny can play LF and thats it, I was just commenting on the fact he has other ppluses to him besides his bat.

[rician blast]

i have 2 cousins in walpole
1 who was born there and owns a landscaping business and went to umass and played hockey
the other didnt grow up there but got sent there for life and a day
and wont be leaving there without a hearse escort

if youre in norwood and need a bite
go to the red wing on the south bound side of rte 1 maybe 2-3 miles from the stadium
how old is your son??
i can arrange the prostitution if you'd like

he's 11, Sean. Not reaady for such luxuries.

[adam123]

wlly mo pop stinks get rid of him for bull pen help .. hell just give me back arroyo

[CrespoBlows]

wlly mo pop stinks get rid of him for bull pen help .. hell just give me back arroyo

This guy is definitely billmueller11.

[MANNYHOF24]

wlly mo pop stinks get rid of him for bull pen help .. hell just give me back arroyo

A guy who hit .302 with 11hrs and 42 RBIS in 279 AB's does not stink, he should be put in CF instead of pathetic Coco Crisp who has yet to do anything in Boston.

[adam123]

Coco can play just not here . will mo is bad news .. hes dave kingman just newer verson you try playing with broken knuckel and filling judas deamons shoes

[Coco's Disciples]

If he cant play here why keep him?

[schillingouttheks]

Coco can play just not here . will mo is bad news .. hes dave kingman just newer verson you try playing with broken knuckel and filling judas deamons shoes

Ok fine. I'll be very frank with you.

Whether you like it or not, Wily Mo has done much better than Crisp has in their time with Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ok fine. I'll be very frank with you.

Whether you like it or not, Wily Mo has done much better than Crisp has in their time with Boston.

Comparing anyone to Coco Crisp is an insult. And a heinous one at that.

[riverside sluggers]

With Boston:

Wily Mo (87 games)- 83 for 279 (.297 avg) 15 Doubles, 2 Triples, 11 HRs, 42 RBIs, 36 Runs, 20 Walks, 90 Ks

Coco (113 games)- 113 for 441 (.256 avg) 24 Doubles, 2 Triples, 8 HRs, 39 RBIs, 60 Runs, 33 Walks, 73 Ks, 23 SBs

[EvilDonut]

wlly mo pop stinks get rid of him for bull pen help .. hell just give me back arroyo


Come on man willy mo stinks .. lets see how good any of us does with broken finger and tons of pressure .. not to good its still first week of season .. so hes still got time to shape up


Willy mo pop up needs to go he sucks in the field ,strikes out all the time . I really think we can get more for him than crisp .. plus crisp is cheaper


Just send willy mo pop up and hansen


if willy mo is so good why has been through the yankees and cincinatti


just trade willy mo pop up ..to get cordero willy mo is so overated .. hes horrable in the field and is a strike out king just get rid of him

You are a freaking broken record. Get over it.

[a700hitter]

whoever compared him to a young Manny doesnt really know what they are talking about. Wily is a young Dave Kingman. All or nothing power without a real idea of what a strike zone is.He's Dave Kingman with less power.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

He's Dave Kingman with less power.

Kingman could crush the ball, no doubt about it...but I don't think we've seen even close to WMP's power capabilities. The kid is a beaaaaaaaast.

[Mr Crunchy]

sam horn was a beast
phil plantier was a beast
matt stairs was a beast

adam is english your 1st language?
i dont mean to bust balls but you write like a fucking retard and this is coming from a guy who doesnt use caps punctuation or anything near proper grammar.

anyways
where to put pena??
if coco continues to slug .218 i think i would move drew to center and put pena in right
cocos mechanics maybe fubar at this point
pena cost us 230 valuable innings last year so we may as well use him is some type of capacity
we got issues
theres no excuse for this team to get blanked 2xs in a week

[schillingouttheks]

I'd rather just put WMP in CF. He's more comfortable there and gets better jumps.

For the record, your grammar and punctuation isn't annoying because you're articulate and I understand what you're saying. Also, you spell correctly. People like adam123 annoy me because they can do no such things.

Also...kudos on using fubar. It worked nicely :D

[Mr Crunchy]

thank you sir
i can actually write fairly well for a college drop out.
my problem is ive developed some bad typing habits over the last 18 years in my business and in the heavy construction industry proper grammar has never been a priority

that fukin guy is either on acid or has parents that are brother and sister

anyways i dont want to pick on anyone,especially a sox fan

pena played center last year and looked more comfortable than he did in right field
but
drew is the better OF
i think he can get to more balls in center and maybe able to help pena out

we got some issues that havent been resolved
my feeling on jd drew is so very public and so very negative but 10days into the season its evident that we need him
im big enuff to admit when im wrong and hopefully drew makes me look like an idiot

[schillingouttheks]

I've never understood the dislike for Drew. He played a full year last year and put up 20 HR 100 RBI. I loved the signing. I understood everyone's displeasure with the amount, though. If this guy stays healthy, which I think he should (the Sox are giving him an off-day every 10ish days now I guess...), he'll be a force in the order. His talent was never in question, just his health. He's a tremendous upgrade over Nixon.

[ORS]

Heavy construction? What do you do?

[CrespoBlows]

You know we could just trade for Barry Bonds. :dunno:

[Mr Crunchy]

i work in finance for CAT

[ORS]

I see your equipment in use regularly. I work in construction project management for Clark Construction.

[Mr Crunchy]

is your headquarters in bethesda md?
the industry is diverse,out west we have gigantic machines for mining equipment
here in central mass we do a lot of work in the quarrys
down in florida the smaller machines are more popular and we dont compete as well.

i got my bones in the carpenters union but age arthritic knees and some piss poor economic times drove me into the steadiness of a corporate gig and i havent looked back.

[ORS]

Yep, headquarters are in Bethesda. I cut my teeth working for the the concrete construction division in that area. Outside of the mid-Atlantic we only do GC work with no construction divisions.

[v2freak]

If people want to complain about expensive signings, they should look at Dice-K first, lol

[BSN07]

I worked in DC on acouple jobs were they where the GC, there not too bad of a company, and CAT equipment I never had a problem with LOL

[riverside sluggers]

I've never understood the dislike for Drew. He played a full year last year and put up 20 HR 100 RBI. I loved the signing. I understood everyone's displeasure with the amount, though. If this guy stays healthy, which I think he should (the Sox are giving him an off-day every 10ish days now I guess...), he'll be a force in the order. His talent was never in question, just his health. He's a tremendous upgrade over Nixon.

100% agree Schill, I was all aboard Drew's bandwagon once I heard they were in negotiations with him. No doubt I was hoping Wily Mo could prove his worth as a potential starter, but the Sox netted a pure upgrade in the #5 hitter spot behind manny and a guy who could learn how to play fenway's odd right field dimensions

[jacksonianmarch]

I've never understood the dislike for Drew. He played a full year last year and put up 20 HR 100 RBI. I loved the signing. I understood everyone's displeasure with the amount, though. If this guy stays healthy, which I think he should (the Sox are giving him an off-day every 10ish days now I guess...), he'll be a force in the order. His talent was never in question, just his health. He's a tremendous upgrade over Nixon.

#1- Drew's rep is not very good. Around the baseball circles he is considered to be someone who shrinks under pressure. A guy who will take a called third strike rather than go for the game winning hit. Take it or leave it, that is what was said about him in LA.

#2- when JD and Mussina have a playdate on the DL this yr, I'll expect your feelings on his durability to change.

[jacksonianmarch]

btw, constructions gigs are no joke. Had a summer job working for a construction company working on my HS and it was awful. 6am to 6pm 6 days a week. Most of em talking about being out all night then coming to work hungover as fuck (I was 18 then, so no drinky). Only the toughest can do that for a living.

[adam123]

Hey does any one have josh hamilton on there fantasy team .. i think hes gonna be a steal

[adam123]

need the wisdom of baseball gods

[jacksonianmarch]

Hey does any one have josh hamilton on there fantasy team .. i think hes gonna be a steal

aside from the fact that he will be high on coke at least twice this season and may only see 250AB's. But continue living the acid flashback kid, dont let me steal your mojo.

http://www.johncoulthart.com/images/amtuk.jpg

[adam123]

aside from the fact that he will be high on coke at least twice this season and may only see 250AB's. But continue living the acid flashback kid, dont let me steal your mojo.

http://www.johncoulthart.com/images/amtuk.jpg

I think thats crack not coke .. ha ha i have been watching him for awhile kid has all the tools

[ORS]

I picked up Hamilton as a bench OF (actually started him today). I picked him up earlier but he didn't start the year getting an PT. But now, after he's broken out the ST bat during the season they are going to have to find playing time for him.

[seabeachfred]

Ok fine. I'll be very frank with you.

Whether you like it or not, Wily Mo has done much better than Crisp has in their time with Boston.

Schill, I just got back from Boston and the word is out all around baseball. You throw Pena a breaking ball and he is toast pure and simple. He will be pulling the same shit he did in Cincy after his promising year there in 2004. He regressed badly and they got rid of him. He is absolutely useless to us. He looks like barf warmed over up at the plate. Unfortunately, so does Crisp and what's worse it looks like there is no escape for him. He wants out of Boston now that the fans are all over his ass, and big mouth comments about not caring what the fans think has just about sunk him.

Hopefully, the FO will get their heads out of their asses, stop this shit of keeping Ellsbury in Double A and move him up to Pawtucket lickety split and send the 100 hitting Ochoa out to steal hubcaps. Maybe by last June or July he will be playing well enough to be brought up to the Red Sox. I saw it with my own eyes. Crisp looks like he has forgotten how to it and he whole persona is one of resignation.

[a700hitter]

Schill, I just got back from Boston and the word is out all around baseball. You throw Pena a breaking ball and he is toast pure and simple. He will be pulling the same shit he did in Cincy after his promising year there in 2004. He regressed badly and they got rid of him. He is absolutely useless to us. He looks like barf warmed over up at the plate. Unfortunately, so does Crisp and what's worse it looks like there is no escape for him. He wants out of Boston now that the fans are all over his ass, and big mouth comments about not caring what the fans think has just about sunk him.

Hopefully, the FO will get their heads out of their asses, stop this shit of keeping Ellsbury in Double A and move him up to Pawtucket lickety split and send the 100 hitting Ochoa out to steal hubcaps. Maybe by last June or July he will be playing well enough to be brought up to the Red Sox. I saw it with my own eyes. Crisp looks like he has forgotten how to it and he whole persona is one of resignation.Crisp needs to get on a little run to get him out of his funk. It will happen.

Edit: Crisp will get better, but he will never be Damon.

[VaTechV-Tek]

Eh, I hope he does but I'm quickly loosing patience. The little run needs to happen real quick.

[TheKilo]

Schill, I just got back from Boston and the word is out all around baseball. You throw Pena a breaking ball and he is toast pure and simple. He will be pulling the same shit he did in Cincy after his promising year there in 2004. He regressed badly and they got rid of him. He is absolutely useless to us. He looks like barf warmed over up at the plate. Unfortunately, so does Crisp and what's worse it looks like there is no escape for him. He wants out of Boston now that the fans are all over his ass, and big mouth comments about not caring what the fans think has just about sunk him.

Hopefully, the FO will get their heads out of their asses, stop this shit of keeping Ellsbury in Double A and move him up to Pawtucket lickety split and send the 100 hitting Ochoa out to steal hubcaps. Maybe by last June or July he will be playing well enough to be brought up to the Red Sox. I saw it with my own eyes. Crisp looks like he has forgotten how to it and he whole persona is one of resignation.

Hey Fred. HE DOESN'T FUCKING PLAY.

[seabeachfred]

Hey Fred. HE DOESN'T FUCKING PLAY.

Hey Kilo, HE FUCKIN BATS AND HE FUCKIN STRIKES OUT AND CAN'T HIT A FUCKIN CURVE.. I will agree that four at-bats does not aid in timing your swing, but you have to see him flail away at breaking balls to understand that this guy has a hole in his swing the size of Mount Everest. I will also concede that if Crisp keep stinking up the lineup we might have to give WMP a shot at four at-bats a game. We need to upgrade the bottom half of our lineup any way we can. Too bad Crisp can't get some walks like Pedroia can. At least if he got on base he could steal some sacks for us.

[TheKilo]

Hey Kilo, HE FUCKIN BATS AND HE FUCKIN STRIKES OUT AND CAN'T HIT A FUCKIN CURVE.. I will agree that four at-bats does not aid in timing your swing, but you have to see him flail away at breaking balls to understand that this guy has a hole in his swing the size of Mount Everest. I will also concede that if Crisp keep stinking up the lineup we might have to give WMP a shot at four at-bats a game. We need to upgrade the bottom half of our lineup any way we can. Too bad Crisp can't get some walks like Pedroia can. At least if he got on base he could steal some sacks for us.

How can he adjust to in-game pitching if he never plays a game?

Keep in mind he hit .300 last year in what, 250 ABs?

[jacksonianmarch]

seabeach, you can try as you might, but you dont have the backing for this season to say anything about Wily Mo. WMP has a track record of serious power with tons of potential and a huge all or nothing swing. He could be an asset to any team as his skill set is rare to say the least. But he is as raw a ball player I have ever seen and his contract porked him. He would be much better off if he were dealt to the Pirates and played every day.

[BSN07]

Wily Mo Pena= Pedro Cerrano



From this day forth I shall only recognize WMP as Pedro Cerrano, there has never been a more comparable player:thumbsup:

[BSN07]

Heres a thought, What if the Sox told him they were gonna release him and sign him back so he can have some time in the minors... Just a thought, I'm outta ideas for this guy....

Or starts sacrificing live chickens and give rum to JoBOO...

[jacksonianmarch]

Heres a thought, What if the Sox told him they were gonna release him and sign him back so he can have some time in the minors... Just a thought, I'm outta ideas for this guy....

Or starts sacrificing live chickens and give rum to JoBOO...

If they released him, he'd get a very lucrative deal somewhere else. And if you think a guy will sign on to play in the minors, you are crazy. The only way this kid gets any better is if he leaves Boston and gets regular playing time.

[BSN07]

I figured as much, but couldn't think of anything else...

[adam123]

WMP SUCKS 0-3 3 strikouts and a walk what a scrub

[TheKilo]

http://www.lolwut.com/layout/lolwut.jpg

[CrespoBlows]

Fuck you, Kilo.

I almost got fired for laughing so hard.

:lol:

[CrespoBlows]

WMP SUCKS 0-3 3 strikouts and a walk what a scrub

2 strikeouts.

[ORS]

2 strikeouts.
o yah, wut did he do other tiem?? pop up....wilymo popup wilymo popup wilymo popup PURPLE MONKEY DISHWASHER!!!

[TedWilliams101]

Why can't all of you see that WMP is useless. HE DOESN"T HAVE A GOOD EYE. PERIOD. He has a HUGE hole in his swing. He has no sense of pitch selection and swings at the worst junk. He is never going to be a great player. Ever. Yes, he has raw power, but that is the ONLY thing going for him. He can't hit anything but a fastball and has no fielding skills.

Again, the reason why he did well last season is because opposing pitchers didn't know how to pitch to him. Now they do. Everyone in the AL now knows just to throw him offspeed pitches and get him to chase fastballs out of the strike zone.

Does anyone really think that Arroyo is actually as good as his numbers reflected last season? NO, it was the first time the NL central faced him and they didn't know him. Expect him to come back down to Earth this year now that they have seen him and know him. Same goes for WMP. The league nows how to get him out. He stands no chance.

How can anyone, after watching this game today, say WMP has a future as even a decent player? Do you see his 2 strike outs? He was swinging at balls in the dirt.

[CrespoBlows]

Again, the reason why he did well last season is because opposing pitchers didn't know how to pitch to him. Now they do. Everyone in the AL now knows just to throw him offspeed pitches and get him to chase fastballs out of the strike zone.



This is the worst point, ever.

Everyone has known the Wily Mo Pena is undisciplined, do you think they just found that out? Or are you really that stupid?

Also, IT'S BEEN 7 FUCKING AT-BATS

[castigs850]

plain and simple they both (coco and WMP) suck, i'd rather see wily mo in there cause he hasnt had the chance that crisp has had, plus WMP will hit some HR's and that puts at least some type of threat into the bottom of our lineup.

[TheKilo]

This is the worst point, ever.

Everyone has known the Wily Mo Pena is undisciplined, do you think they just found that out? Or are you really that stupid?

Also, IT'S BEEN 7 FUCKING AT-BATS

I agree, and you can thank adam for almost getting you fired. ;)

[schillingouttheks]

WMP hit .300 in 250 ABs last year. Why does everyone have such a short fucking leash? CHILL OUT AND LET HIM HAVE SOME CONSISTENT PLAYING TIME. HE NEVER FUCKING PLAYS. EVER. WAIT.

[MANNYHOF24]

Some people on this board are just plain stupid. If Willy Mo has consistent playing time he will hit 30 Hrs and drive in 90-100 runs. Give him a chance people; most people who have comented on how bad he is are just ignorant.

[schillingouttheks]

Adam just needs to get off of his damn soapbox. If I hear him say "wily mo pop up suxorz luts tred coco crispy an whiffin wily mo for yohen suntunuh" one more time, I'm going to stab everyone within earshot.

[jacksonianmarch]

guys, let adam have his meltdowns. It is funny what an angry, partially illiterate kid can try and type when the juices are flowin.

BTW, all you new yorkers do suck....LOL.

And the point about the pitchers not knowing how to pitch him is laughable. The pitcher ALWAYS has the advantage because the hitter doesnt have the experience facing the pitcher. What is easier, throwing a 95 mph fastball by a guy or hitting a perfectly located one? My point exactly. Wily Mo was on his way to establishing himself as a pretty ood OFer until he hurt his wrist. He just hasnt been the same, and I am sure that losing your spot in the offseason when your position opens is a bit disheartening. As I have said before, the sox are waiting for him to go on a hot streak and then ship him when his stock is high. He is a terrible 4th OFer as he is a poor defender and he isnt much of a pinch hit threat right now because he is so easy to K. The sox are a better team with Murphy as the 4th OFer simply because of his speed and defense. Unfortunately, they are stuck with WMP in the majors cause of his contract.

[TedWilliams101]

Did you watch the game? Can you honestly say that WMP looked fine? He looked TERRIBLE! Are we really watching the same games here? Because just about every time I have seen WMP at the plate, he has been terrible.

[schillingouttheks]

Well, I know that I watched WMP's FIRST FULL GAME/START of the year...

[TheKilo]

Did you watch the game? Can you honestly say that WMP looked fine? He looked TERRIBLE! Are we really watching the same games here? Because just about every time I have seen WMP at the plate, he has been terrible.

Manny Ramirez has looked bad in ten games (.200 avg, no homers)

Man, small sample sizes are great!

[TedWilliams101]

But look at Manny's stats, and you see he always has a slow start. However, look at WMP stats... Oh, .260 career BA, 382 strike outs to 75 walks... those don't suggest a good player off to a slow start.

Yes, he's young, but he is TRASH especially right now. Sure, he might develope into someone who can hit 30, maybe even 40 homers a year. But thats not a given. We haven't ever seen it. And there is really not much suggesting he will ever have any sense of pitch selection or plate disipline. Those are the FACTS.

The point is, RIGHT NOW he is trash. We don't really have a place for him either. I expect coco to come around, if he doesn't, Ellsbury is the future CF, Drew is in RF for a while, and if Manny were to leave, there are TONS of big free agent OFs' this offseason. Sure he might have a future as a decent hitter, but not in the next year or 2. The sox simply don't have the team to wait and let him develop in the majors.

[schillingouttheks]

If Wily Mo Pena turns into a good power-hitting player, you are not allowed to root for him. Fair deal? You can have your rants.

[castigs850]

both pena and crisp need playing time if either will turn it around no doubt about that, but as of now crisp at least gives you some pretty damn good OF defense were as Pena is a bit sketchy. If crisp doesnt have everything figured out in a couple weeks i'd like to see a bit more even distribution of playing time. But even with that i dont know how good i feel about that big bastard running around center trying to track down flys. i just dont think either of these guys are a good fit for boston right now

[adam123]

Well today did not help him at all . I really wana like the guy hes a sox but he just cant hit that offspeed shit. I dont think he ever will

[ANiMAL]

2 K's for Pena today, that-a-boy Pena.

[TedWilliams101]

Thats my point... I don't hate the guy. I just don't think he's all that great. He has absolutely no plate discipline. You can't produce if all you can hit is a fastball... Now, saying this, I hope that I am wrong and that he does somehow take a complete 180 and learn how to hit..., but that doesn't really happen very often. You either have the potential, or you don't. I really don't think WMP has the potential to develope even good plate discipline, simply, I don't think he will ever learn how to really hit. I'm not hoping he never improves, I just don't think it will happen. Don't get me wrong. I root for the guy, I hope he improves, I'd love to see him develope into a great hitter... I just don't think it's going to happen, I think its a bit of a stretch and wishful thinking to believe he will develope into a good hitter. It's just a matter of opinion. There isn't a right answer, no one really knows whether he can develope into anything good or not. I agree he will need playing time to develope, there just isn't space for him on this team. I would be happy to see him traded to a team where he can be an everday player. Great. But it won't happen on this team. We already have Pedroia the rookie. Boston can't afford to have another bat in the lineup trying to develope, especially when he is a liability in OF. Don't confuse my opinion and beliefs for simply "hating the guy" or anything of that sort. I'm just trying to be realistic. From what I have seen in the past and what I see now, there really isn't anything pointing towards him significantly improving. And sure, there are players who have turned into monsters (Papi) when a lot of people didn't think highly of them, but again, thats extremely rare (a diamond in the rough, so to say). Anything could happen, I just don't think its Likely. Thats the key. Likely.

[adam123]

Thats my point... I don't hate the guy. I just don't think he's all that great. He has absolutely no plate discipline. You can't produce if all you can hit is a fastball... Now, saying this, I hope that I am wrong and that he does somehow take a complete 180 and learn how to hit..., but that doesn't really happen very often. You either have the potential, or you don't. I really don't think WMP has the potential to develope even good plate discipline, simply, I don't think he will ever learn how to really hit. I'm not hoping he never improves, I just don't think it will happen. Don't get me wrong. I root for the guy, I hope he improves, I'd love to see him develope into a great hitter... I just don't think it's going to happen, I think its a bit of a stretch and wishful thinking to believe he will develope into a good hitter. It's just a matter of opinion. There isn't a right answer, no one really knows whether he can develope into anything good or not. I agree he will need playing time to develope, there just isn't space for him on this team. I would be happy to see him traded to a team where he can be an everday player. Great. But it won't happen on this team. We already have Pedroia the rookie. Boston can't afford to have another bat in the lineup trying to develope, especially when he is a liability in OF. Don't confuse my opinion and beliefs for simply "hating the guy" or anything of that sort. I'm just trying to be realistic. From what I have seen in the past and what I see now, there really isn't anything pointing towards him significantly improving. And sure, there are players who have turned into monsters (Papi) when a lot of people didn't think highly of them, but again, thats extremely rare (a diamond in the rough, so to say). Anything could happen, I just don't think its Likely. Thats the key. Likely.



exactly well put man finally someone who understands . I am so tierd of hearing about up side on this guy .. either learns how to hit or not ..

[schillingouttheks]

No. You don't understand the fact that HE CAN'T LEARN IF HE DOESN'T PLAY.

[TedWilliams101]

Yes I do. He does need the playing time, just not here. He's a project. And right now in Boston, we don't have place to try and see what he can do on our team. Thats what the minors are for. I don't want to sound like the Yankees, but our team is built for the future AND for NOW. There is simply no space for someone who isn't worthy of a starting spot NOW. WMP would do perfectly on almost any other team where they can use him and let him play. He doesn't have that option here.

[seabeachfred]

seabeach, you can try as you might, but you dont have the backing for this season to say anything about Wily Mo. WMP has a track record of serious power with tons of potential and a huge all or nothing swing. He could be an asset to any team as his skill set is rare to say the least. But he is as raw a ball player I have ever seen and his contract porked him. He would be much better off if he were dealt to the Pirates and played every day.

Jackson, not everyone on this board is a WMP fan. You really have to see this guy try to hit in person to understand that power potential or not the pitchers now know this guy inside out and he is never going to be productive for us. Maybe it was his agent's fault with that contract he originally signed but that shouldn't be a yoke around our necks. The guy simply cannot hit a curve, cannot play adequate defense and the only reason I would even give him a chance is because he cannot be any worse that Crisp has been so far this season. OTOH, Crisp has played good defense. Pena? Defense? Oxymoron is there ever was one.

[seabeachfred]

Why can't all of you see that WMP is useless. HE DOESN"T HAVE A GOOD EYE. PERIOD. He has a HUGE hole in his swing. He has no sense of pitch selection and swings at the worst junk. He is never going to be a great player. Ever. Yes, he has raw power, but that is the ONLY thing going for him. He can't hit anything but a fastball and has no fielding skills.

Again, the reason why he did well last season is because opposing pitchers didn't know how to pitch to him. Now they do. Everyone in the AL now knows just to throw him offspeed pitches and get him to chase fastballs out of the strike zone.

Does anyone really think that Arroyo is actually as good as his numbers reflected last season? NO, it was the first time the NL central faced him and they didn't know him. Expect him to come back down to Earth this year now that they have seen him and know him. Same goes for WMP. The league nows how to get him out. He stands no chance.

How can anyone, after watching this game today, say WMP has a future as even a decent player? Do you see his 2 strike outs? He was swinging at balls in the dirt.

Ted, read my posts, read ORS's post, read Animal's posts. There are plenty of us who see Pena for the waste of time that he is. Sorry to say that since the guy is a pretty good joe but we are in this to win and he isn't going to help us much. Now if Crisp would finally get off his collective ass and start making some contributions with the bat we wouldn't have to have these exchanges. As it is, we will probably see both of them alternating into the forseeable a future with each one trying to outdo the other in the art of fucking up.

[example1]

This issue doesn't have to be black/white. WMP has assets that other reserves don't have: power. He lacks things that other reserves don't: plate vision, good contact.

If it comes down to have Alex Cora or WMP hitting in the 7th inning down by 2 with a runner on first against a mediocre reliever I'm taking WMP. If it comes down to needing a quality AB against Mariano Rivera I'm taking Hinske.

If there were a good offer on the table for WMP I would take it, or include him as part of a deal. I get the sense that Drew will do everythign in his power to stay healthy and that he likes playing in Boston. With Ellsbury coming up eventually there will be an overabundance of OFs (including more well-rounded players like Murphy).

[Mr Crunchy]

hinske has batted 8xs
5 hits 2bbs
he can play 7 different positions and has decent plate discipline

why are we still debating this?
pena's future on this team was decided when they went out and signed drew to a 4yr deal
theres no way he gets 300abs on this team without someone injured

[BSN07]

Even with his lack of D, I would much rather see Pedro Cerrano(WMP) get the AB´s over fucking Coco, Coco looks like he has forgot how to hit the ball, hes hit a couple hard ones the last couple games but I think its more mental for him, I think Boston is getting to him...

[Mr Crunchy]

cant argue with you there sox 07.
crisp should be healed physically
however his mental health may have left the building

[BSN07]

Might as well give Cerrano the next ccouple of series to see if he can make contact with the bat , after that if neither can do it we will have to think about maybe someone new, if Hinske could play OF a little better then I say give him a shot because he seems to be hitting the ball well and atleast getting on base...

[ORS]

Hinske does have the hot bat, and I've always felt you ride 'em till they buck. How about Drew in CF and Hinske in RF? Isn't the best defensive combination, but it would have the most punch right now.

[BSN07]

Hinske is just really not that great in OF, but if Coco can´t put it together in the next few days then anything might be worth a shot, they need to deal with it now while the rest of the O is hot, and not wait until everyone gets cold and then try to tweak things. The bottom 3 in the lineup are not getting the job done, Pedroia gets on base decently, Tek is hitting like shit but got a hold of a couple recently and Coco just sucks...

[TheKilo]

Hinske is just really not that great in OF, but if Coco can?t put it together in the next few days then anything might be worth a shot, they need to deal with it now while the rest of the O is hot, and not wait until everyone gets cold and then try to tweak things. The bottom 3 in the lineup are not getting the job done, Pedroia gets on base decently, Tek is hitting like shit but got a hold of a couple recently and Coco just sucks...

I really think he's gotta try to get Hinske in the lineup, but not tonight.

Isn't Chacin a lefty? If that's the case go with WMP in center and Drew in right.

[ORS]

I really think he's gotta try to get Hinske in the lineup, but not tonight.

Isn't Chacin a lefty? If that's the case go with WMP in center and Drew in right.
Agreed. Hinske's LHP/RHP split is pretty large, but he should get some more playing time against RHP.

[seabeachfred]

o yah, wut did he do other tiem?? pop up....wilymo popup wilymo popup wilymo popup PURPLE MONKEY DISHWASHER!!!

ORS, you and Crespo have got to go to Fenway Park and see Pena for yourselves. As bad he sounds on the radio and looks on TV---in person he looks absolutely pathetic. I mean you throw this guy a curve and he looks like a bullfighter trying to ward off the bull. I mean he looks like shit warmed over. Crisp at least can play a decent defense but it is my opinion since Ellsbury will not be ready this year we should go out and try and get someone to play out there adequately this year and I have the perfect guy in mind. Package Crisp or Pena, throw in a decent but not one of our three or four top prospects (Ellsbury, Bucholz, Place, Anderson) and try and get Eric Brynes from the D'Backs. This guy can hit, run, play defense and plays with a reckless abandon. I saw him on TV last night out here against the Dodgers and he played like his life was on the line, dirty uny and all. Unless we go out and trade for someone CF is going to be black hole for us this year. In my opinion Crisp is just about done in Boston. The next two series will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[seabeachfred]

hinske has batted 8xs
5 hits 2bbs
he can play 7 different positions and has decent plate discipline

why are we still debating this?
pena's future on this team was decided when they went out and signed drew to a 4yr deal
theres no way he gets 300abs on this team without someone injured

Come on Crunch, you're no fool. You know damn well why we are still debating about Wily Mo Pena. Simple really. One, the front office is determined to prove that they made the right deal when they traded for this white elephant, and, secondly, their determination to ram him down our throats come hell or high water. Right now Pena has almost zero trade value and the longer we seem him flailing away at curves and being unsure of himself in the outfield his value will keep dropping. He has to go somewhere to get his act together if that is possible. He can't do it here unless the powers-that-be want to see the Red Sox as an also ran. He as well as Crisp cannot do it for us and the sooner they are let go the better for them and especially for us.

[ORS]

Why would seeing him in person give any better idea about his flaws? I have seen him in person, at the Trop down here in Florida, and I can say without a shadow of doubt that the TV coverage is more revealing. We all know what his warts are, so pissing and moaning about them won't make them any better. One thing will, playing time. Should he get it here? Tough to say. I think they ought to give him a look and some regular ABs as shitty as Coco has looked at the plate. If he can't show some more of what we saw last year and continues to struggle, then I agree, Crisp's defense is more important. Bottom line, one of these guys needs to start showing something, because we can't even get value in return if neither of them do.

[ORS]

Come on Crunch, you're no fool. You know damn well why we are still debating about Wily Mo Pena. Simple really. One, the front office is determined to prove that they made the right deal when they traded for this white elephant, and, secondly, their determination to ram him down our throats come hell or high water. Right now Pena has almost zero trade value and the longer we seem him flailing away at curves and being unsure of himself in the outfield his value will keep dropping. He has to go somewhere to get his act together if that is possible. He can't do it here unless the powers-that-be want to see the Red Sox as an also ran. He as well as Crisp cannot do it for us and the sooner they are let go the better for them and especially for us.
This is pure ridiculousness. They are playing him only to show us they were right? That's absurd. If Crisp were performing, he wouldn't be playing. It's as simple as that.

[TheKilo]

ORS, you and Crespo have got to go to Fenway Park and see Pena for yourselves. As bad he sounds on the radio and looks on TV---in person he looks absolutely pathetic. I mean you throw this guy a curve and he looks like a bullfighter trying to ward off the bull. I mean he looks like shit warmed over. Crisp at least can play a decent defense but it is my opinion since Ellsbury will not be ready this year we should go out and try and get someone to play out there adequately this year and I have the perfect guy in mind. Package Crisp or Pena, throw in a decent but not one of our three or four top prospects (Ellsbury, Bucholz, Place, Anderson) and try and get Eric Brynes from the D'Backs. This guy can hit, run, play defense and plays with a reckless abandon. I saw him on TV last night out here against the Dodgers and he played like his life was on the line, dirty uny and all. Unless we go out and trade for someone CF is going to be black hole for us this year. In my opinion Crisp is just about done in Boston. The next two series will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.cabel.name/images-post/2006/01/roflcopter.gif

http://www.absolutedestiny.org/pics/albums/userpics/ljicons/lollerskates.gif

[TGov]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.cabel.name/images-post/2006/01/roflcopter.gif

http://www.absolutedestiny.org/pics/albums/userpics/ljicons/lollerskates.gif

HAHAHA :lol: what the hell is that...

[TheKilo]

HAHAHA :lol: what the hell is that...

roflcopter and lollerskates.

Anyone who advocates a trade for Eric Byrnes instantly has zero credibility anymore.

[seabeachfred]

roflcopter and lollerskates.

Anyone who advocates a trade for Eric Byrnes instantly has zero credibility anymore.

And anyone who would take Crisp or Pena over Byrnes never had any credibility in the first place. That you or anyone else can sit there and say that either one of those bums is going to get the job done for us this season means that you still haven't put the crack pipe down. Crisp is mentally spent and Pena couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[CrespoBlows]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

OPS+ (2006)

Byrnes - 95
Pena - 112

EQA (2006)

Byrnes - .268
Pena - . 299

OPS vs RHP

Byrnes - .701
Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

[TheKilo]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

OPS+ (2006)

Byrnes - 95
Pena - 112

EQA (2006)

Byrnes - .268
Pena - . 299

OPS vs RHP

Byrnes - .701
Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

Thank you.

And in addition to WMP's stats, wasn't his OPS against lefties much, much lower last year than it had been in year's past?

[TheKilo]

And anyone who would take Crisp or Pena over Byrnes never had any credibility in the first place. That you or anyone else can sit there and say that either one of those bums is going to get the job done for us this season means that you still haven't put the crack pipe down. Crisp is mentally spent and Pena couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

And Eric Byrnes sucks.

I'd rather give Pena a shot to grow or Crisp a shot to get out of his funk above trading for Byrnes.

[seabeachfred]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

OPS+ (2006)

Byrnes - 95
Pena - 112

EQA (2006)

Byrnes - .268
Pena - . 299

OPS vs RHP

Byrnes - .701
Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

Byrnes collected two doubles last night facing Brad Penny. Last time I checked Penny was a righthander. Last time I checked Byrnes was hitting 288 with five doubles. Last time you checked what was Pena hitting? What was Crisp?

Now you will win this argument only because Theo is not trading for Eric and we are going to go with your two boys until they either start contributing or they have anchored us down in the deep. I have always been an Eric Brynes fan as you could see and that was because I loved his gritty hard nosed play. We could always used that type of player on the Red Sox especially if they can hit and field and run. Brynes can do all those things. What the hell can Pena do but strike out. I have seen this guy at bat ten times this season down in Florida and in Boston. One single and seven strikeouts. Some hitting, huh?

As for Crisp look up his stats so far. He is not even making solid contact. Maybe this series against Toronto? Hopefully so. I am not holding my breath for it, though.

[seabeachfred]

And Eric Byrnes sucks.

I'd rather give Pena a shot to grow or Crisp a shot to get out of his funk above trading for Byrnes.

A shot to grow????? This is Pena's ninth season of pro ball my friend. When the hell is he going to grow? Why the hell hasn't he grown yet? Why the hell did the Yankees and the Reds both trade him away? Why can't he still not hit a curve? The only thing Wily Mo has shown that he has a tremendous ability to regress after showing a little promise.

As for Crisp, he will get a solid shot to get out of his funk and I certainly hope he does, but his persona on the field tells me that he would love to get out of Boston as soon as he can. There were numerous fans saying the same thing last week in Fenway. His discomfort in a Red Sox uniform was evident to most of us the way he went back to the dugout head down and in another world.

[seabeachfred]

Why would seeing him in person give any better idea about his flaws? I have seen him in person, at the Trop down here in Florida, and I can say without a shadow of doubt that the TV coverage is more revealing. We all know what his warts are, so pissing and moaning about them won't make them any better. One thing will, playing time. Should he get it here? Tough to say. I think they ought to give him a look and some regular ABs as shitty as Coco has looked at the plate. If he can't show some more of what we saw last year and continues to struggle, then I agree, Crisp's defense is more important. Bottom line, one of these guys needs to start showing something, because we can't even get value in return if neither of them do.

And the way they're both going we won't get much for them now and less later. Yes, I know Theo is going to go with these two until the cows come home but nothing I've seen so far as made me confident either one of them is going to do much for us. Coco does play the field well and I would stick with him a little longer, but we could certainly do better than either one of them. Quite a tremendous comedown from Johnny Damon I would say.

[seabeachfred]

This is pure ridiculousness. They are playing him only to show us they were right? That's absurd. If Crisp were performing, he wouldn't be playing. It's as simple as that.

"If Crisp were (sic) performing, he wouldn't be playing???? Try running that by me again. Notice last year they had this guy's face on billboards all over town hawking "Red Sox Nation Cards, Hood Dairy products and numerous other things. They wanted to make him the face of the Red Sox as quickly as possible to get our minds off of Johnny Damon. Well, guess what?? It failed as miserably as he did and now you see his face nowhere but Theo seems determined to see him succeed and that is why you hear nothing about bringing Murphy up, or considering a trade for someone who can put the ball in play. We have a gathering black hole in CF ORS whether you want to accept it or not. For the team's sake I hope Crisp snaps out of it. I don't think he will. I think he and Pena could both use a new address and to a man all my friends who saw those games with me agree with that.

[TheKilo]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

[Coco's Disciples]

Home Run.

[schillingouttheks]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

Damn it. You beat me to it.

[ORS]

"If Crisp were (sic) performing, he wouldn't be playing???? Try running that by me again. Notice last year they had this guy's face on billboards all over town hawking "Red Sox Nation Cards, Hood Dairy products and numerous other things. They wanted to make him the face of the Red Sox as quickly as possible to get our minds off of Johnny Damon. Well, guess what?? It failed as miserably as he did and now you see his face nowhere but Theo seems determined to see him succeed and that is why you hear nothing about bringing Murphy up, or considering a trade for someone who can put the ball in play. We have a gathering black hole in CF ORS whether you want to accept it or not. For the team's sake I hope Crisp snaps out of it. I don't think he will. I think he and Pena could both use a new address and to a man all my friends who saw those games with me agree with that.
Take off pants.
Take off underpants.
Reach between butt-cheeks.
Remove head from ass.

We were talking about Pena. If Crisp was doing his job, Pena wouldn't be playing (or hitting 450+ ft moonshots).

[EvilDonut]

Home Run.
Like....when he plays more, he gets, like, better.

[CrespoBlows]

Byrnes collected two doubles last night facing Brad Penny. Last time I checked Penny was a righthander. Last time I checked Byrnes was hitting 288 with five doubles. Last time you checked what was Pena hitting? What was Crisp?

Two at-bats?

Seriously, two freaking at-bats?

Did you really use two-freaking at-bats?

No, you didn't. No one is that st......

WHAT

THE

FUCK

???

TWO FREAKING AT-BATS????

I'd show you that Eric Byrnes is a terrible hitter against RHP, but what's the point.

Fuck you.

Seriously.


I have always been an Eric Brynes fan as you could see and that was because I loved his gritty hard nosed play.

How is Eric Byrnes' grit going to help the Red Sox going to score runs? David Eckstein is gritty, but he is an average SS. John Mabry eats dirt, but he is a terrible ball player. How is Byrnes' CLUTCH TUFF N GRIT going to help the Red Sox score runs?


We could always used that type of player on the Red Sox especially if they can hit and field and run.

He's average at best, at these things.


What the hell can Pena do but strike out.

Hit 500 foot laser beams, like the one five minutes ago.


I have seen this guy at bat ten times this season down in Florida and in Boston. One single and seven strikeouts. Some hitting, huh?


Do you have any idea how absurd it is to use sample sizes, that small?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml

This guy is batting .200

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml

This guy is hitting .250

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

This guy is under .180

Fuck you, and your small sample sizes.

[castigs850]

wanted to keep this out of the gameday thread



Wily Mo Pena's power is real.

The fact that he was hitless in 7 AB's is totally irrelevant.


It's obvious he has power I dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him? and also how long do you give him to reach his stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if his numbers and overall play increase dramatically in a reasonable amount of time. But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp. In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact, that coupled with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark in regards to how good he will actually be, makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

Edit; better?

and thanks rdsxmbnt

[CrespoBlows]

it's obvious he has power i dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. its obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him but my question is how much will it help him? and how long do you give him to reach a stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if the former is grand and the latter and minimal. in other words, his defense really scares me and that is a fact, that along with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark for how good he will actually be makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

This is the most incoherent thing I have ever read. Space that out a bit, then I will respond.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Its not the best grammer post obviously, but I didn't find that it got in the way of his thoughts...

[CrespoBlows]

Its not the best grammer post obviously, but I didn't find that it got in the way of his thoughts...

What thoughts?

I need the Rosetta Stone to read that shit.

[castigs850]

i fixed it

[CrespoBlows]

It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him?

He started to get regular playing time in 2006, and he responded with an OPS in the .900's. He was our third best hitter until he hurt his wrist.



But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp.

There was no major difference between Pena and Crisp in CF, last year.

FRAA

Pena +0
Crisp +1

Pena also had a fairly good 2004 year in center as well. (+10 FRAA) I'm pretty confident that Pena would play a decent CF. Even if Crisp is better than him in the field, Pena's bat far outweighs the possible benefits of Crisp's glove.




In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact,

In RF, yes. In CF, not so much.

[castigs850]

I guess I stand corrected with stats, I do however feel I need to see it to believe it and I am willing to give him playing time to show it to me. but could you explain to me why he is so much better in center than right? i know you see the ball better off the bat from center than in right from experience but he just looks so clumsy in right, what could possibly make him so much better in center?

[CrespoBlows]

I guess I stand corrected with stats, I do however feel I need to see it to believe it and I am willing to give him playing time to show it to me. but could you explain to me why he is so much better in center than right? i know you see the ball better off the bat from center than in right from experience but he just looks so clumsy in right, what could possibly make him so much better in center?

You got it.

Fenway's RF is also difficult to play in. Putting him in CF, where he covers less ground, and can read the ball better, makes him a better fielder.

[castigs850]

there has to be some other reason than that though. he just looks so clumsy out there that a faster jump on the ball shouldnt have so much effect. plus dont you think playing in between coco and a wall would be less ground to have to cover than playing in between manny and drew?

[v2freak]

I like the idea of sending him to Triple A, but I doubt it'd happen

[jacksonianmarch]

I like the idea of sending him to Triple A, but I doubt it'd happen

it cant. He'd have to be waived and he will be claimed.

[seabeachfred]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

Well I like the idea he hit a monstrous shot and I have to stand down on my criticism of him......certainly for tonight. He and Crisp both had two hits tonight and they certainly did more than the rest of the crew. Thanks for going easy on me because unlike two others who I will answer in kind, I could have been attacked by you with good cause. Let's hope this leads to something good. I was wrong tonight and I hope I am wrong in the future. It would be great if those two started coming through for us. Now let's win tomorrow.

[seabeachfred]

Damn it. You beat me to it.

Schill, I said I had to stand down. Tonight I was way off the mark and am happy those two did a decent job with the bat. If the rest of the team could support Dice K the way those two did we could have won tonight.

[seabeachfred]

Take off pants.
Take off underpants.
Reach between butt-cheeks.
Remove head from ass.

We were talking about Pena. If Crisp was doing his job, Pena wouldn't be playing (or hitting 450+ ft moonshots).

You know you could have done what Kilo and Schill did and let me up easy but if you want to be an asshole about it fine. If they screw up again, remember if you're going to give me a ration of shit I'm going to give you two. Just keep in mind if we go by their performances up to now your head has been up your ass a lot more than mine has been up mine. You showed no fucking class with your post.

[seabeachfred]

Two at-bats?

Seriously, two freaking at-bats?

Did you really use two-freaking at-bats?

No, you didn't. No one is that st......

WHAT

THE

FUCK

???

TWO FREAKING AT-BATS????

I'd show you that Eric Byrnes is a terrible hitter against RHP, but what's the point.

Fuck you.

Seriously.



How is Eric Byrnes' grit going to help the Red Sox going to score runs? David Eckstein is gritty, but he is an average SS. John Mabry eats dirt, but he is a terrible ball player. How is Byrnes' CLUTCH TUFF N GRIT going to help the Red Sox score runs?



He's average at best, at these things.



Hit 500 foot laser beams, like the one five minutes ago.



Do you have any idea how absurd it is to use sample sizes, that small?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml

This guy is batting .200

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml

This guy is hitting .250

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

This guy is under .180

Fuck you, and your small sample sizes.

The last time you told me to go fuck myself I let it pass, not this time you asshole. Fuck you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you shithead. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.

[schillingouttheks]

:lol: Sorry, it's hilarious when people have exchanges such as these.

[CrespoBlows]

The last time you told me to go fuck myself I let it pass, not this time you asshole. Fuck you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you shithead. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.

I was expecting far better than this.

:lol:

This will do for now.

[CrespoBlows]

The last time you told me to go fuck myself I let it pass, not this time you asshole. Fuck you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you shithead. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.

Care to respond to the points made about small sample sizes? Being gritty? You being a total idiot? Eric Byrnes?

Somehow, I doubt you have the ability.

[seabeachfred]

Care to respond to the points made about small sample sizes? Being gritty? You being a total idiot? Eric Byrnes?

Somehow, I doubt you have the ability.

You being an expert on judging my ability has to be most assinine thing I've heard this month. I've read enough of your posts to see you as a chronic imbecile, your head making a good hotel since there's always vacancy upstairs.

Since you are a aficianado of messrs Crisp and Pena which I am not, I am going to be ready willing and able to remind you in language you gave me today when those two guys fuck up again as they will most certainly will. Tit for that from here on in.

[seabeachfred]

:lol: Sorry, it's hilarious when people have exchanges such as these.

Schill, I love to talk baseball in general and Red Sox baseball in particular, but I'm through turning the other cheek. CrespoBlowhard or anyone else getting personal with me is going to get it back in kind. I'm older than they are and more experienced in getting down and dirty if that's what they want.

Of course, I am not in the best of moods tonight as our team looked like shit out there and sabotaged a great pitching perfomance by Dice K. Maybe with a win tomorrow I will go back to being mr. nice guy again.

[Ray10]

Honestly Pena has proven that his bat is a big assest to the Sox lineup but it's his glove that worries me I feel that his defense is sub par at best. I think he needs alot of work in the field before he becomes an everyday player. And the homerun he hit tonight was a monster shot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Random conjecture here, but I think WMP gets a shot again in this series and if he can at least hit adequately and he may end up splitting time in CF with Cocout.

[Mr Crunchy]

crisp and pena hit the ball last nite
that prick owns us and our starter had a mental breakdown that cost us the game

nice ole effort by lugo there on overbays""basehit""
fukin giabrone

good thing that i see out of this
matsusaka pitched his way out of the 4th(thank you royce clayton) and put down his last 8 hitters?? as he put down the 1st 8
2 runs against this team is a good outing

[schillingouttheks]

good thing that i see out of this
matsusaka pitched his way out of the 4th(thank you royce clayton) and put down his last 8 hitters?? as he put down the 1st 8
2 runs against this team is a good outing

Right you are Crunchy. Against certain starters (Chacin being one of them), I have just come to expect defeat. A win is a bonus. I just like to look at the positives in games like this...

Pena hit a dinger (it was fucking beastly too)
Crisp got a couple hits after he felt Pena breathing down his neck
Matsuzaka had 10 Ks; gave us a great chance to win by giving up only 2 runs while pitching 6 strong

Like you said, Matsuzaka's outing against this Toronto lineup is a great outing. What's scary is that this is probably considered an off night for him. Imagine how dirty he can be when he's on... he should be allowed to have one shaky inning and assume that his team's going to pick him up. You'd figure that the Sox could have scored at least one more run to force the thing into extras...

[ORS]

You know you could have done what Kilo and Schill did and let me up easy but if you want to be an asshole about it fine. If they screw up again, remember if you're going to give me a ration of shit I'm going to give you two. Just keep in mind if we go by their performances up to now your head has been up your ass a lot more than mine has been up mine. You showed no fucking class with your post.
Fred, my response was not performance driven. It was due to the fact that you can't stay on topic. You said they were shoving WMP down our collective throat with playing time in order to "prove they were right". I pointed out the ridiculousness of that and pointed out how they were just trying to win games and Crisp wasn't performing. You counter with how Crisp was "shoved down our throats". It's maddening to discuss things with people who won't stay on topic, so I won't bother with you any more.

Class? Fred, I'll start showing your posts some respect once they become worthy of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

he will always have one shaky inning. It is very rare that a pitcher comes through a game without having one inning where they were put on the ropes a bit.

[CrespoBlows]

You being an expert on judging my ability has to be most assinine thing I've heard this month. I've read enough of your posts to see you as a chronic imbecile, your head making a good hotel since there's always vacancy upstairs.

You happen to believe your judgement is better than ORS, which is probably the most asinine thing I've heard in the last 24 hours. Oh, you still used

TWO FUCKING AT-BATS

to prove a point.

[Mr Crunchy]

ive seen pitchers blow their careers over smaller meltdowns
i was watching the game with my dad and all i kept thinking was irabu in the 4th inning

i dont know why we cant beat gus chacin
agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out
faaaaaaaaak

[TheKilo]

Schill, I love to talk baseball in general and Red Sox baseball in particular, but I'm through turning the other cheek. CrespoBlowhard or anyone else getting personal with me is going to get it back in kind. I'm older than they are and more experienced in getting down and dirty if that's what they want.

Of course, I am not in the best of moods tonight as our team looked like shit out there and sabotaged a great pitching perfomance by Dice K. Maybe with a win tomorrow I will go back to being mr. nice guy again.

Thing is, you don't talk baseball. You never use anything baseball related to back up your arguments.

You make these claims, and then when people call you out on them you get defensive. ORS and Crespo use statistics to back up their arguments. What do you use?

[seabeachfred]

wanted to keep this out of the gameday thread



It's obvious he has power I dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him? and also how long do you give him to reach his stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if his numbers and overall play increase dramatically in a reasonable amount of time. But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp. In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact, that coupled with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark in regards to how good he will actually be, makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

Edit; better?

and thanks rdsxmbnt

Castigs, we would all do handstands if Wily Mo could show some real progress with hitting the breaking ball and fielding his position, but this is his ninth pro season and he still has trouble tracking a fly ball? What does that tell you? Now in CF he might be adequate but you and I know that when he plays a corner OF spot he has trouble galore. What we will have to do is mix and match Crisp and Pena and see which one can give us the most production without sacrificing any defense or OBP. As of now there will be no trade for a CF so we are stuck with those two. Hopefully one of them gets hot for us.

[seabeachfred]

Honestly Pena has proven that his bat is a big assest to the Sox lineup but it's his glove that worries me I feel that his defense is sub par at best. I think he needs alot of work in the field before he becomes an everyday player. And the homerun he hit tonight was a monster shot.

Ray, no one doubts Wily Mo's power when he gets a hold on a ball. He can hit them as far as anyone. The problem is those strikeouts, men left on base, and his disastrous fielding reputation that we saw last season whenever he played a corner outfield position. That is why he is not a regular with us and why he lost that job with the Reds. This is his ninth year of pro ball and he still cannot track a fly ball and hit a breaking pitch. There has to be a reason that both the Yankees and the Reds traded him away. Yes, we were intrigued with his power as they were and we traded for him to take Nixon's place when Nixon left the team. Notice that didn't happen? The reasons are obvious. Now if we can continue to get hits and drive in some runs, fine. We could use all the offensive help we can get, but I am still of the mind that when all is said and done he has far more liabilities for us in the long term than assets.

[VA Sox Fan]

agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out
faaaaaaaaak

I was thinking the exact same thing last night. We're gonna have to deal w/ stuff like that unfortunately, to have a better bat.

[seabeachfred]

Thing is, you don't talk baseball. You never use anything baseball related to back up your arguments.

You make these claims, and then when people call you out on them you get defensive. ORS and Crespo use statistics to back up their arguments. What do you use?

Take a look at Crisp's statistics this year. What more argument to I need than he hasn't come close to doing the job he was traded for? What was he hitting going into last night's game? 111 or so????? We let a great player like Johnny Damon walk to get a guy like this? That is not improvement to me. We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves. I'm also saying that if these two don't get their shit together the Red Sox are going to feel it sooner or later.

Besides, it was not them calling me out that got me pissed off. It was the nasty and classless way they did it.

[seabeachfred]

ive seen pitchers blow their careers over smaller meltdowns
i was watching the game with my dad and all i kept thinking was irabu in the 4th inning

i dont know why we cant beat gus chacin
agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out
faaaaaaaaak

I wonder if it is a mental thing when we face Chacin? He is a decent pitcher but nothing like a world beater and yet we fail time and again with him. I think he is now 6-0 with us lifetime. On the other hand, John Lackey of the Angels is one of the best pitchers in the American League with dynamite stuff and he has never beaten us. Go figure.

[schillingouttheks]

We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves.

I actually think the Reds were very high on Pena. But, when they were offered a Bronson Arroyo type pitcher (10 wins per year with around a 4.50 ERA in the AL East as a 5 starter translates to success in the NL Central), they were willing to part with him. It wasn't so much them giving up on him as it was their need for pitching and the ability to part with someone like Pena (they had Dunn/Griffey/Kearns patrolling the OF).

[TheKilo]

Take a look at Crisp's statistics this year. What more argument to I need than he hasn't come close to doing the job he was traded for? What was he hitting going into last night's game? 111 or so????? We let a great player like Johnny Damon walk to get a guy like this? That is not improvement to me. We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves. I'm also saying that if these two don't get their shit together the Red Sox are going to feel it sooner or later.

Besides, it was not them calling me out that got me pissed off. It was the nasty and classless way they did it.

So let's trade away a guy like Crisp who had a fantastic year in 2004 for a guy like Eric Byrnes, based off of two ABs for Byrnes against Brad Penny.

Lovely.

You certainly love the small sample size. Tell me, does it hurt your hamstring to jump on and off the bandwagons as much as you do?

[seabeachfred]

I actually think the Reds were very high on Pena. But, when they were offered a Bronson Arroyo type pitcher (10 wins per year with around a 4.50 ERA in the AL East as a 5 starter translates to success in the NL Central), they were willing to part with him. It wasn't so much them giving up on him as it was their need for pitching and the ability to part with someone like Pena (they had Dunn/Griffey/Kearns patrolling the OF).

That could be Schill. Those three men you mentioned would be more valuable to the Reds than Pena was since they all play relatively good defense and can hit. I remember when we made the trade that I was hoping we would get Austin Kearns instead. He had a real breakout year in 2003 and looked like he was h eaded for a good career but he also seems to have been sidetracked the last two, mainly due to injuries. He's with the Nats now I think.

[seabeachfred]

So let's trade away a guy like Crisp who had a fantastic year in 2004 for a guy like Eric Byrnes, based off of two ABs for Byrnes against Brad Penny.

Lovely.

You certainly love the small sample size. Tell me, does it hurt your hamstring to jump on and off the bandwagons as much as you do?

Kilo, I warned you and a few others to stay away from this bandwagon shit because that was one way to set me off. I am no bandwagon jumper as you would have known if you had run into me in Fort Myers. But, then again, you weren't there to see me, were you? Or you could have met up with me in Boston last week, but I didn't catch you there either, did I? Or you could have seen me being interviewed on Channels 4 and 7 and watched me on TV, but you weren't around there either. You might catch me in San Diego in June or Oakland, I believe in July, and we can swap loyalty stories, but you won't be there either. So stop with the bullshit about bandwagons. If NESN and NBC sports figures consider me loyal and devoted enough to interview that means your bandwagon crap goes out the window with you.

Byrnes? I have always liked the guy. He plays hard, gets his uniform dirty and is an overachiever. Since I coached baseball for 30 years I can appreciate intangibles certain players bring to the table since I look at those things as a coach would. Capice?????

The guy I would really like is Nick Swisher of the A's but he is not available at this time and won't be for three years. How does he stand with you? Is that better??

[seabeachfred]

Right you are Crunchy. Against certain starters (Chacin being one of them), I have just come to expect defeat. A win is a bonus. I just like to look at the positives in games like this...

Pena hit a dinger (it was fucking beastly too)
Crisp got a couple hits after he felt Pena breathing down his neck
Matsuzaka had 10 Ks; gave us a great chance to win by giving up only 2 runs while pitching 6 strong

Like you said, Matsuzaka's outing against this Toronto lineup is a great outing. What's scary is that this is probably considered an off night for him. Imagine how dirty he can be when he's on... he should be allowed to have one shaky inning and assume that his team's going to pick him up. You'd figure that the Sox could have scored at least one more run to force the thing into extras...

Schill, I will tell you what a positive would be for me. That would be to snap back and win the next two in Toronto, then take care of the Yankees two out of three at Fenway. I think we need to take advantage of the good pitching we're getting.

[TheKilo]

Kilo, I warned you and a few others to stay away from this bandwagon shit because that was one way to set me off. I am no bandwagon jumper as you would have known if you had run into me in Fort Myers. But, then again, you weren't there to see me, were you? Or you could have met up with me in Boston last week, but I didn't catch you there either, did I? Or you could have seen me being interviewed on Channels 4 and 7 and watched me on TV, but you weren't around there either. You might catch me in San Diego in June or Oakland, I believe in July, and we can swap loyalty stories, but you won't be there either. So stop with the bullshit about bandwagons. If NESN and NBC sports figures consider me loyal and devoted enough to interview that means your bandwagon crap goes out the window with you.

Byrnes? I have always liked the guy. He plays hard, gets his uniform dirty and is an overachiever. Since I coached baseball for 30 years I can appreciate intangibles certain players bring to the table since I look at those things as a coach would. Capice?????

The guy I would really like is Nick Swisher of the A's but he is not available at this time and won't be for three years. How does he stand with you? Is that better??

That's funny, man. Did it cross your mind that I am a college student who is in the process of ending my semester and prepping for finals? Maybe some of us don't have the disposable income you do to take these expensive trips to Florida and Boston?

Just because you went to Fenway does not make you any more loyal than anyone else. I've never claimed to be the most loyal Sox fan, but at least I don't have as much of a wishy-washy relationship with them as you do. Seriously, after one loss, the sky is falling. It's not that big of a deal, Fred. There are more important things in life than Red Sox baseball. But you are so quick to knock this team and the players on it, even in meaningless Spring Training games. But hey, I can't argue with you. NESN and NBC think you're an awesome fan. By the way, do you have links to these interviews?

[Coco's Disciples]

I would like to see them as well.

[ANiMAL]

O shit, NESN has never interveiwed me; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner.
O shit, I don't live within 100 miles of Fenway Park and I've never been there; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner
O shit, I do not have enough money to travel everywhere to see the Red Sox; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner.

[TheKilo]

O shit, NESN has never interveiwed me; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner.
O shit, I don't live within 100 miles of Fenway Park and I've never been there; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner
O shit, I do not have enough money to travel everywhere to see the Red Sox; sorry guys I am a bandwagoner.

How's the pink hat treating you? ;)

[seabeachfred]

That's funny, man. Did it cross your mind that I am a college student who is in the process of ending my semester and prepping for finals? Maybe some of us don't have the disposable income you do to take these expensive trips to Florida and Boston?

Just because you went to Fenway does not make you any more loyal than anyone else. I've never claimed to be the most loyal Sox fan, but at least I don't have as much of a wishy-washy relationship with them as you do. Seriously, after one loss, the sky is falling. It's not that big of a deal, Fred. There are more important things in life than Red Sox baseball. But you are so quick to knock this team and the players on it, even in meaningless Spring Training games. But hey, I can't argue with you. NESN and NBC think you're an awesome fan. By the way, do you have links to these interviews?

No links with them but you can check with Boston's Channel 7. The interview took place on Monday night around ten p.m. and aired around 11:15. I never saw it because I was out on Lansdowne Avenue cavorting with mainly college students like yourself who I seemed to hit it off better with than I am with you. NESN? Someone told me that was the other station, but, frankly, I am going by their word. I didn't even know who was interviewing me until someone told me. I was too busy trying not to freeze my ass off.

As for being a college student, no I didn't know you were but now that I do I wish you very best and best of luck in your studies. The word bandwagon jumps upsets me something awful. I am anything but. I live and die with every game and right now I'm still stewing from last night's game. My mentioning of my trips were merely to let you know that I am anything but a bandwagon fan. At any rate, enjoy your college years. They are some of the best years of your life. Since I was a teacher-coach for 35 years I am a strong supporter of education. Good luck to you. Hopefully from here on in we will have a better relationship.

[TheKilo]

No links with them but you can check with Boston's Channel 7. The interview took place on Monday night around ten p.m. and aired around 11:15. I never saw it because I was out on Lansdowne Avenue cavorting with mainly college students like yourself who I seemed to hit it off better with than I am with you. NESN? Someone told me that was the other station, but, frankly, I am going by their word. I didn't even know who was interviewing me until someone told me. I was too busy trying not to freeze my ass off.

As for being a college student, no I didn't know you were but now that I do I wish you very best and best of luck in your studies. The word bandwagon jumps upsets me something awful. I am anything but. I live and die with every game and right now I'm still stewing from last night's game. My mentioning of my trips were merely to let you know that I am anything but a bandwagon fan. At any rate, enjoy your college years. They are some of the best years of your life. Since I was a teacher-coach for 35 years I am a strong supporter of education. Good luck to you. Hopefully from here on in we will have a better relationship.

Awww Fred, you're just a big softy, aren't ya.

[ANiMAL]

Wait, I did leave school early to see the Patriot's Day game, and I am leaving early tomorrow to see the game. Am I still a bandwagoner?

[Rdsxmbnt]

ok imagine me posting your avatar with "...ya"

[seabeachfred]

Awww Fred, you're just a big softy, aren't ya.

I talk real tough but in reality you hit it on the head. Raising a daughter who rapped me around her finger and now a grandaughter who make me gush every time I see her---well, what did you expect? Even the players I coached saw through me after awhile. Fortunately, they were outstanding people and we had tremendous teams.

You did give me a guilt trip when you said you were a college student. Believe me, I remember cutting corners and managing every dime I had so I could makes ends-meet. Look at the positive end of it. You will soon have your degree, you are over 40 years younger than I am and will see quite a few more Red Sox World Titles that I will.

I think a win tonight will change a lot of our dispositions.

[ORS]

I think a win tonight will change a lot of our dispositions.
Stop projecting, Fred. It's your bipolar self that needs sweet kiss of baseball victory to calm the tremors. Most of us around here are pretty level headed, which is why we spend so much time talking you back from the ledge after a loss (or a strikeout, or an error, you get the point).

Oh, and I find it shocking that you were a teacher, and an English one to boot. Kilo never called you a bandwagon fan. The bandwagoning he was refering to was about which player is the flavor of the week in Fredville. There are other bandwagons, you know?

[seabeachfred]

Stop projecting, Fred. It's your bipolar self that needs sweet kiss of baseball victory to calm the tremors. Most of us around here are pretty level headed, which is why we spend so much time talking you back from the ledge after a loss (or a strikeout, or an error, you get the point).

Oh, and I find it shocking that you were a teacher, and an English one to boot. Kilo never called you a bandwagon fan. The bandwagoning he was refering to was about which player is the flavor of the week in Fredville. There are other bandwagons, you know?

Let me put some new colors in your paint box my friend. The word fan comes from the word fanatic. I AM a fanatic, have been in everything I've done in my life whether it was pursuing a career (history teacher, by the way), pursuing the girl of my dreams (got her---37 years this August 1. Remember to send be contratulations), baseball coach in three programs (800-145 over 30 years and 39 league league and tournament titles), and being a father and good husband. As I told you once or twice or three times, I am relatively a late comer to the Red Sox and am trying to make up for some very lost time. I wear my love to the team on my sleeve and that upsets you I would suggest you bypass my posts. There is nothing bi-polar about it. As for being shocked that I was a teacher be advised that many of my former students and ball players I coached are among my closest friends today. One even happens to be West Coast Scouting Director for the Devil Rays.

[adam123]

Fred your the man give them a kick in th arse .... i think we have a great pitcher in okijama
hes been pitching lights out . What do you guys think ? looks like hes the real deal .

[CrespoBlows]

i think we have a great pitcher in okijama
hes been pitching lights out . What do you guys think ? looks like hes the real deal .

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0410/gallery.off.topic/gall.off.topic.jpg

http://www.runzu.com/forum/images/smiles/myicon_offtopic.gif

[Rdsxmbnt]

:ortiz:

[seabeachfred]

Fred your the man give them a kick in th arse .... i think we have a great pitcher in okijama
hes been pitching lights out . What do you guys think ? looks like hes the real deal .

A little off topic Adam, but to answer your question, Okajima and most of our bullpen have performed very well so far. Now if we can get some consistency from our hitters we might have the makings of a real good season.

[TedWilliams101]

Did anyone notice WMP went 0-3 tonight with 3, 3 strikeouts. All on offspeed pitches. In fact, I don't think he hit a SINGLE off speed pitch. THAT is why WMP shouldn't be a starter. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and tonight again proves that. I don't mind seeing him in every now and then against a lefty, but he shouldn't be an everday guy, at least not on our team.

He's now hitting .143, 1HR in 14 AB, but 8 SO in only 14 AB...

[TheKilo]

Did anyone notice WMP went 0-3 tonight with 3, 3 strikeouts. All on offspeed pitches. In fact, I don't think he hit a SINGLE off speed pitch. THAT is why WMP shouldn't be a starter. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and tonight again proves that. I don't mind seeing him in every now and then against a lefty, but he shouldn't be an everday guy, at least not on our team.

He's now hitting .143, 1HR in 14 AB, but 8 SO in only 14 AB...

OMG NO WAY

Go piss about this shit somewhere else.

[TedWilliams101]

Just proving my point that WMP can't hit...

[yeszir]

OMG NO WAY

Go piss about this shit somewhere else.

...like the Willy Mo Pena thread?

[seabeachfred]

Did anyone notice WMP went 0-3 tonight with 3, 3 strikeouts. All on offspeed pitches. In fact, I don't think he hit a SINGLE off speed pitch. THAT is why WMP shouldn't be a starter. He can't hit anything but a straight fastball and tonight again proves that. I don't mind seeing him in every now and then against a lefty, but he shouldn't be an everday guy, at least not on our team.

He's now hitting .143, 1HR in 14 AB, but 8 SO in only 14 AB...

Ted, how could anyone with a pair of eyes not notice. I think there are just a lot of Red Sox fans on this board and, in fact, on other Sox boards as well, who are in denial about this guy. When he's at bat with men on base off speed pitches is all he's going to see and the pitchers throwing them to him were no great shakes themselves yet they made him look like a chump. He will never be a threat against the Yankees for what they did to him today is what I saw last September at YS. It isn't just that he can't hit off speed pitches but he continues to chase them well out of the strike zone. He will hit a few homers for us this year but overall he is going to be one big piece of blob. His ninth year in pro ball and he still can't touch an off speed pitch on the outside corner and beyond. PATHETIC@!!!!!

[Mr Crunchy]

he sucked with the yanks
he sucked in cincinatti
he sucks
he sucks
he sucks

it would be nice if this tidbit of information that is proven on paper is stuffed into theo epsteins face every time this behemoth fuck bag takes the field

he was up against an A ball pitcher last nite and a AA bullpen
he'll be a consistant hitter when my grandmother grows a finger nail on her cock

[ryanromine]

It's really unnerving when this guy steps into the box! I like Wily Mo, but if you cant lay off of off speed pitches out of the zone, then you need to work a little harder over the off season! He did put on a show during spring training! Something needs to be done! If he doesn't step up, then I think the Sox will shop him around and see what they can get!

[jacksonianmarch]

I'll take WMP if you guys wont.

[BoSox21]

Cerrano is fine as a 4th outfielder but I still would've preferred Catalonotto

[inkman]

I thought Manny and Big Papi were going to be an influence on his plate discipline. Perhaps he is not a good student. It looks like A-Rod is...

[BoSox21]

plate discipline is something pretty difficult to teach though

[Rdsxmbnt]

Its still been 14 ABs, thats it. Granted he hasnt looked good but he isnt getting regular playing time either. Its very tough for a hitter to just walk into a game cold without playing for a while and be expected to produce. Give him time

[TedWilliams101]

He hasn't proven that he can improve with time. There's absolultely no indication of that. Let him try and prove himself though, just not on this team. If you ain't got your shit together NOW then I don't want you playing on our team. Period. The minors are for learning how to hit and doing the vast majority of improving. If you need a full MLB year or 2 to MAYBE get your shit together, it better not be with us. We don't have time to wait around for him. Give him to a team with no offense that needs crap like him.

[Rdsxmbnt]

He hasn't proven that he can improve with time. There's absolultely no indication of that. Let him try and prove himself though, just not on this team. If you ain't got your shit together NOW then I don't want you playing on our team. Period. The minors are for learning how to hit and doing the vast majority of improving. If you need a full MLB year or 2 to MAYBE get your shit together, it better not be with us. We don't have time to wait around for him. Give him to a team with no offense that needs crap like him.

This really isnt worth answering but w/e I will. Hasnt proven that he can improve with time? How bout last season, .301/.349/.489, thats pretty solid for a 24 year old kid is it not? And 2 days ago, Manny was below the mendoza line, he started off the year 6 for 31, ouch he sucks, we need guys who produce NOW! [sarcasm] But wait Rdsxmbnt Manny is a proven hitter so hes obviously going to turn it around! Of course but WMP also had a very solid year last year, but ya lets dump him after 14 ABs he'll never amount to anything.

[adam123]

Wow Seeing him last night in person really has me thinking will mo will never be better

[schillingouttheks]

You are never allowed to ever root for him. You are not allowed to cheer if he hits a home run or when he does something productive. Capisce?

[adam123]

schill where were you sitting ? what a great series . Mannys home run went right over my head it was awsome

[TedWilliams101]

I do root for WMP and I will. I don't hate the guy. I wish him the most success, but I'm being realistic. He isn't a an above average player and I highly doubt he will ever become one. Yes, there are teams that can use average players, but the Red Sox aren't one of them. As much as I hate to sound like the Yankees, but you have to have already proven yourself and be a great player, or you don't deserve to be on our team. I'm FINE with WMP as a bench player. But that is it.

I take last night as an example and look at his CAREER stats, yet you tell me I'm not looking at his "improvement" and you only throw me 1 year of stats. Yes, he did well last season, but if you noticed, most of his hits last season were with the bases empty. IE, they wen't right after him with fastballs. He can't hit an offspeed pitch, he chases them. As you are seeing RIGHT NOW, pitchers just aren't going to give him a straight fastball when he could do damage. His career stats show that, as well as his performance so far.

And the Manny comparison doesn't work. Manny has 477 career homers and 9 straight seasons of 30+HR and 100+RBI, and he has been known to start the season cold. His career stats show what type of hitter he is... elite. Now, WMP is off to a horrible start, BUT his career numbers REFLECT his current numbers. That means, no slump. Last season was not a "break out", it was a fluke, and his career stats and current stats support that, not the other way around.

Do you remember Beltre's "break out year" in '04? Everyone thought that he finally progressed into the caliber player everyone expected him to be. Guess what, that was just a fluke, not a "break out". Yes he is a pretty good player, but not even close to that good. Same thing goes with WMP season last year.

[adam123]

Right on ted 101 that was great post .

[TheKilo]

I wish I could put this thread on ignore.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I do root for WMP and I will. I don't hate the guy. I wish him the most success, but I'm being realistic. He isn't a an above average player and I highly doubt he will ever become one. Yes, there are teams that can use average players, but the Red Sox aren't one of them. As much as I hate to sound like the Yankees, but you have to have already proven yourself and be a great player, or you don't deserve to be on our team. I'm FINE with WMP as a bench player. But that is it.

You have got to be kidding me, ZERO teams in the league have a lineup and bench of players that are completely proven and are a great players. Even the Yankees, though they may be close to the exception in the lineup although they have one blackhole even in Meintxxxx. Then look at the Red Sox, Pedroia isnt proven yet, even Crisp isnt even proven yet that they can be everyday hitters in the lineup. But you know what? How can they do that without playing time? Thats what WMP needs and he proved he can potentially be a well-above average MLB player by his performance last year.



I take last night as an example and look at his CAREER stats, yet you tell me I'm not looking at his "improvement" and you only throw me 1 year of stats. Yes, he did well last season, but if you noticed, most of his hits last season were with the bases empty. IE, they wen't right after him with fastballs. He can't hit an offspeed pitch, he chases them. As you are seeing RIGHT NOW, pitchers just aren't going to give him a straight fastball when he could do damage. His career stats show that, as well as his performance so far.

His career stats indicate hes a .143/.294/.357 hitter???? Are you kidding me???? He has his flaws like all young hitters (even more because he wasnt brought along properly in CIN). But tell me what we're seeing right now is all he'll ever be is rediculous. In fact over the past 3 years (when he was 22, 23, and 24 years old) hes had 923 ABs and posted a
.270/.322/.504/.826 line, thats fantastic for a kid his age, most prospects are still in the minors at those ages and he has a .826 OPS. This wasnt a one year thing, hes always shown ability to be a major league hitter. He needs some work but like I said to say hes a career bench player is an awful and baseless claim.[/QUOTE]



And the Manny comparison doesn't work. Manny has 477 career homers and 9 straight seasons of 30+HR and 100+RBI, and he has been known to start the season cold. His career stats show what type of hitter he is... elite. Now, WMP is off to a horrible start, BUT his career numbers REFLECT his current numbers. That means, no slump. Last season was not a "break out", it was a fluke, and his career stats and current stats support that, not the other way around.
Like I pointed out, his career numbers DO NOT reflect his .144 BA. Its been 14, 14! ABs and your ready to declare him a bench player at 25 years old

[adam123]

DEAD HORSE