The Official Terry Francona Thread

[noonanberg]

I thought Francona would be an alright manager. He was supposed to be similar to Grady, and Grady did alright except for his post- game interviews and that little game 7 blunder. Turns out though, Francona has less common sense than Little. He is no better at handling pitchers than Little and he's a much worse lineup coordinator (for lack of a better word). Bellhorn at third? Youk on the bench? Millar at first? 0-for-3 Terry. Where does he get these crazy ideas? Youk should be playing third. Bellhorn should be rotating with Reese at second and Millar should be sent to the grocery store for sunflower seeds. Millar of course is the most important. With him on the bench you have two solid options: 1) McCarty at first (he's a very good fielder and has potential at the plate) or 2) Ortiz at first with any number of options at DH (although I'd prefer Bellhorn if Reese is at second). Meanwhile, what is Francona doing with the pitching staff. He has no idea when to pull the starter (great example: Schilling's overstay early in the year that led to a granny) and often puts the wrong guy in from the pen. Why is Williamson getting almost no playing time? Whenever he plays he dominates. Rarely does Williamson get shelled. He also likes to bring in Foulke mighty early, as well as bring him in when there's not a save on the line. I know Foulke still needs playing time, but when Williamson hasn't pitched in five days and Foulke in three, let Williamson get some work. Terry is making me think it's not just the guys on the field that aren't doing there job.

[elsrbueno]

Terry definately has made some questionable calls.

I agree with pitching Foulke in tie-game situations in Fenway. Putting your "closer" in there in the 9th/10th etc gives you a chance to win. Torre does it with Rivera too.

That being said, there's no GOOD reason why Williamson shouldn't be pitching more. Obviously if the Sox are down 7-2, 10-3 or whatever, save him for a closer game (because he's one of the best out in the Sox bullpen) but he needs work just like the rest do.

Millar needs to ride the pine for a bit. Watch some videos of himself, pick his nose, do SOMETHING other than boot the ball at first. I'd rather see Ortiz out there than Millar right now.

[elsrbueno]

Terry needs to go!

This is the last straw!

[JMDurron]

What kind of brain cramp has you blaming Francona for this? Nomar and Ortiz screwed up. He pulled Wakefield when he should have. He went with Timlin instead of Embree, which was the safe play.

[elsrbueno]

It's the overall team attitude that needs to change. Not just today.

Shit, if SOMEone hit the ball with the bases loaded we'd be in bed already. Now I won't sleep all night.

[JMDurron]

I say we should be blaming the players who didn't perform, AGAIN, as opposed to roasting the manager over it. It's not like a totally gassed pitcher was left in, or that we had anyone playing who shouldn't have been on the field.

[elsrbueno]

I guess you're right. With the exception of Nomar. He doesn't deserve to play tomorrow.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 30 2004, 10:48 PM
...or that we had anyone playing who shouldn't have been on the field.
Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Varitek and Kevin Millar instantly come to mind.

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by Zenny+Jun 30 2004, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zenny @ Jun 30 2004, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JMDurron@Jun 30 2004, 10:48 PM
...or that we had anyone playing who shouldn&#39;t have been on the field.
Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Varitek and Kevin Millar instantly come to mind. [/b][/quote]
Varitek didn&#39;t play until the 9th inning as a pinch hitter. Nomar is normally worth playing. Millar didn&#39;t screw anything up today.

And yes, I would have DHed Nomar, but that doesn&#39;t mean that it&#39;s totally unreasonable for Francona to play him.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 30 2004, 10:58 PM
Varitek didn&#39;t play until the 9th inning as a pinch hitter. Nomar is normally worth playing. Millar didn&#39;t screw anything up today.

And yes, I would have DHed Nomar, but that doesn&#39;t mean that it&#39;s totally unreasonable for Francona to play him.
I&#39;m just being irrationally frustrated again. Although, I think Varitek should have pinch-hit one spot lower as the potential tying run.

[Old Hoss]

Enlighten me..........why was Nixon DH&#39;ing and Millar playing RF?

[YanksHater213]

because he has no idea what to do...

[JMDurron]

Nixon to DH, Millar to RF, and Ortiz to 1B was apparently a last-second decision before the game started. I&#39;m guessing Nixon said something to Francona about his injury still bothering him a little bit.

[elsrbueno]

I read on mlb.com that Nixon&#39;s quad tightened up on him.

That&#39;s why he was the DH for last nights game

[sarasoxfan]

time to pile on...get it out of system....on the plus side....well, enough said ab out that
Millar--2 ribi&#39;s in the last 23 games? I can see why he plays all the time...mccarty and kapler probably have about as many in about a total of 5 innings over that strecth. Dump this clown..
Nomar--I truly believe Nomar is a baby. You can get away with that intensity thing and stand offish crap when you play well. But in this town when you suck you should be a man and answer up to it. Sure it may all be coincidence but we werent doing too badly while Nomar was injured, and since he&#39;s been back we really have sucked......
Tek-I like Tek he goes in spurts and he is a great catcher. Keep him.
Lowe-is overated and over paid..Ta-ta.
Pedro- keep &#39;em.
Tony-get packing buddy, we dont have a chance with this guy.

Now--I&#39;m, sick of the I love these guys we&#39;ll play through it crap. Come on people, we always say that and when we do snap out of it we&#39;re so far gone we barely claw back in to contention. One reason the yankess clobber us because when they have problems Georgie fixes it--fast&#33;

Come on theo-Shake it up now&#33;@

[sarasoxfan]

I can barely type I am so despondent. Nice clutch hitting by Nomar...as usual meaningless hits and then when we need him a double play.

Terribel managing. why the hell dso we have that martinez kid, he gets shelled every time he pitches.

Manny is a god.

bellhorn is terrible, awful...ridiculous. Millar plays the game like irene ryan.

At the very least please lets lose in 9 I need my sleep.


Time for a change...fire francona and trade Nomar he&#39;s a cancer,

Do it now

[yeszir]

Just merging some topics to keep things organized

[RedSoxRooter]

You know what&#39;s especially frustrating?

If the Sox hold on to the late lead and win in NY on Wednesday, if they hold the lead in extra innings on Thursday, and if they hold the lead Friday in extra innings in ATL - like they normally do - the sox would be only 3.5 games out of first place this morning. :wacko:

[yagmaster]

I have to disagree with everyone saying Francona is our problem. Our players just aren&#39;t performing. Mueller hasn&#39;t done anything because of injury. Millar has been aweful. Our bullpen has struggled recently. And Nomar, who has been my favorite player for years, has flat out sucked. It&#39;s not the manager that&#39;s the problem, it&#39;s the players. Also, our pitching other than Schill hasn&#39;t been too good recently either. Other than Manny, Schilling, Foulke, and Ortiz, no one is doing as well as they did last year, which was probably our peak.

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by yagmaster@Jul 3 2004, 02:14 PM
I have to disagree with everyone saying Francona is our problem. Our players just aren&#39;t performing. Mueller hasn&#39;t done anything because of injury. Millar has been aweful. Our bullpen has struggled recently. And Nomar, who has been my favorite player for years, has flat out sucked. It&#39;s not the manager that&#39;s the problem, it&#39;s the players. Also, our pitching other than Schill hasn&#39;t been too good recently either. Other than Manny, Schilling, Foulke, and Ortiz, no one is doing as well as they did last year, which was probably our peak.
Amen&#33; I totally agree. We even have two new additons (Pokey and Bellhorn) who have performed ABOVE expectations (when you look at career averages), and we can&#39;t get it done. Our guys from last year just need to get back to doing what they used to do so well - get the clutch hits, claw back from behind, and don&#39;t play in the field like they&#39;re blind and mired in quicksand.

[JMDurron]

Good news in the ESPN.com game notes from tonight&#39;s win.

"Red Sox manager Terry Francona said Tuesday that Kevin Youkilis and Mark Bellhorn would being taking ground balls at 1B to prepare for a possible start there."

:D This opens up some excellent possibilities for the lineup (Why choose between Mueller and Youk?) and defense (Why choose between Pokey&#39;s glove and Bellhorn&#39;s eye/bat?), if one or both of them can adapt to the position. The fact that they&#39;re considering moving Youk tells me that Terry is confident that Mueller is recovering well.

[elsrbueno]

I like it. Gives the team more late-game options if the players are more versatile. That would make Bellhorn capable of playing EVERY infield position&#33;

[Ortiz34]

speaking of other positions, i remember Kapler playing 3rd base in spring training. He made some nice plays. I think he could fill in sometimes at 3rd base.

[sarasoxfan]

while I basically agree with everyone...personally I dont see what we gain with all this juggling. As if our defensive needs anything pulling it down.

billy seems to be back in stride. Youk and belllhorn can help out here and there, but neither is really starting material. Ditto for Gabe.

the set line-up projected at the beginnning of the year seems like the way to go.
Bill, nomar, pokey and DO....

The love affair with Youk, just is unrealistic at this time. I&#39;ll take a health Mueller written in pen at third base. Bellhorn, the K king. Pokey at second.

Do, mccarty and Tubby can share first...DHing along the way.

I read about them loking for a steady first basemen..and finding time for the Youk&#39;s and bellhorn of the world, puh-leeze............PITCHING HELP thats what we need.

[elsrbueno]

True, the Sox need pitching help most of all. But an upgrade over Millar at first certainly wouldn&#39;t be a BAD move (unless of course the Sox lose top prospects).

[yagmaster]

I am finally on the Fire the Franc bandwagon. After leaving Schilling in to rot after 100 pitches and a 7-1 lead, I have to say the guys in charge made a mistake.

[Zenny]

I&#39;m just warming up to the guy. He&#39;s finally showing some balls with Lowe. To quote Tito in non-BS talk, "Lowe, you fucking pussy, you suck and blew another game because your head was shoved up your ass&#33; You want to bitch about the media calling you a headcase and blame it on getting too much of the plate? That&#39;s because you cannot focus on making good pitches, you stupid motherfucker&#33; Pull your head out of your ass and be tough&#33;"

That&#39;s basically what he said when it boils down to it. PS- Sorry for all the swearing, but that&#39;s what happens when Tito starts drinking.

[sarasoxfan]

Huh?

The fact that he keeps letting Lowe pitch and then leaves him to get clobbered when it obvious to everyone from Stevie Wonder on up that the guy doesnt have it.
He never seesm to use his bullpen wisely, or take out our starters at the right time.

He juggles the lineup all the time. What&#39;s with all this resting people.

He sticks with guys for too long.

I dont like him one bit.

But we won 3 and I dont want to be cranky---

[Zenny]

Yeah, but did you hear him subtley bashing Lowe after the game in Atlanta? It was awesome.

[elsrbueno]

I heard him, Zenny&#33;

That&#39;s the first time he&#39;s bashed ANYONE.....

[Ortiz34]

who bashed who?

[elsrbueno]

Ortiz,
Francona (sorta) bashed Lowe after his last start.

[Ortiz34]

o yeah, i saw that. I mean he kinda has a right to bash and he kinda doesn;t. It was still funny.

[Tek04]

Good im glad Terry did that...time to speak up and get mad for such crappy playing

[Ortiz34]

did you guys also see lowe somehwat flip out to the media? They were interviewing him after his poor performance, and he was like whining.

He said something like "How come whenever someone else like Schill or Pedro pitches a poor game, you guys just say they threw the wrong pitches. But when i pitch poorly, you tell me im horrible and i have no talent. I think thats unfair"

I thought it was pretty funny, and also pretty sad.

[JMDurron]

Looks like the bashing Lowe got from Francona might have actually helped. Seems like the whole team stepped up a bit afterwards, could it be from the shock of the "Player&#39;s Manager" actually slapping someone over a lousy performance? "Whoa, we&#39;re actually accountable&#33; Time to get it together&#33;"

[elsrbueno]

I find it interesting and refreshing that the Sox have done more running and hit and runs of late. Could Francona be changing his strategy?

[RedSoxRooter]

I think he was forced to change his style. The fans were starting to turn on him. If the sox come out dead to start the second half, he&#39;s going to be in real trouble.

[elsrbueno]

You&#39;ve got to imagine that Theo and company had begun to lose a little patience with Terry too. Remember, managers tend to take the fall first for teams playing below expectations....

I personally was glad to see Francona take more chances...

[elsrbueno]

Alright.

I gotta talk for a minute on Terry Francona. I didn&#39;t want to do this last night because I get emotional after a Red Sox loss and say things like "Trade Nomar," or "Fire Francona&#33;"

I&#39;ve had some time to think about it, and I really don&#39;t understand the logic for starting Lowe last night. The team needed a win to start the second half, to boost confidence, show the fans their turning it around, etc. What does Francona do? He starts the MOST inconsistant starter on the team.

That&#39;s not a way to win. He&#39;s looking more and more like Jimy Williams every day. He coddles the stars, and they walk all over him. Sure, they love him, but they don&#39;t win baseball games. Shouldn&#39;t there be a point when he says, "No, you can&#39;t take a long vacation," or "If you can&#39;t play the day before the All-Star game, or the day after, why do you play in it? The All-Star game is fun, but we&#39;ve got a pennant to win."

It&#39;s just really frustrating to see this team play so poorly and so inconsistently. Now it&#39;s not all Terry&#39;s fault, but I have lost my faith in his leadership abilities.

[sarasoxfan]

Welcome aboard.

Francona is a moron, no doubt about it. Lowe was the wrong choice. Whats more embree blows and always has blown. After one batter it was obvios he sucked (as usdal) take hime out and at elast we have a chance. That has happened numerous times. Francona is such a wimp as a players manager afraid to upset these guys. They police themese4lves and walk all over him,. This manny thing is ridiculous, pedro leaves when he wants.blah, blah...all I know is the guy makes the wrong call on ptiching every time. Lowe stinks I think he has proven that he doesnt have it this season why do we keep letting him get slaughtered.
Fiere Francona now before its too late. Jimy Williams is available???

I know the manager doesnt play, the players do..well, In this case I honestly believe in many cases tony&#39;s ineptitude is costing us games.
Pedro should fucking started last night. We should be off with a win and I shoukld be in a good mood right now. .

Grady Little, and Tony FRanconca....quite a hiring record for THeo.

How about some one with a backbone, and not some ass kissing weasel..

[trot4mvp]

See my comments in yesterday&#39;s gameday thread...

I still can&#39;t believe they chose Terry Francona to manage this team. I&#39;m so disgusted right now.

[elsrbueno]

Francona&#39;s decisions ALWAYS backfire. It was smart to pull Lowe. He was fried after throwing 117 pitches. Bringing in Embree as a lefty specialist....has NEVER worked. In fact, in 2004, lefties are hitting BETTER against Embree than righties (.233 to .227).

In a 2-1 game, bringing in a reliever to stop the bleeding was a good idea. I&#39;m not sure Embree was the best idea.

Earth to Theo/Terry: Embree IS NOT a lefty specialist&#33;

[sarasoxfan]

els, you hit the nail on the head. Yes, for once Tony made the right call and FINALLY yanked Lowe before it was too late. Unfortunately he brought in the wrong guy in to pitch and then left him in too long. Alan embree has one pitch a straight down the middle fastball, that leaves the bat faster that it comes in.

Embree has never done anything and should be realesed.
The Mendoza fiasco continues..that makkes a total of about two or three good innnings for 6 mill.

I know its politcally correct to insult Theo, but sheesh...we need something--I was never too sastitfied with last year&#39;s in season moves and I hevnt seen anything this year to change my opinion.

we are in the hunt but I dont think this team is going to respond to the dim witted, non emotional, always wrong slow moving irrational style of a tony franconca.
Dave Wallace is my opinion is no prize either.

WE need someone with some fire in his belly (a la Lou Pinella) some one who appears to mind losing.

[elsrbueno]

I agree. Francona&#39;s laid back attitude has gone too far. The man could care less if the Sox win as long as they all love each other, and can go out for a beer after the game.

Hey Terry.....the fans don&#39;t care if you all love each other (yes, you ARE around for the fans believe it or not).

[schillingouttheks]

i said it at the beginning of the year, i promise. i said i dont think francona knows what hes gotten himself into by coming to boston. here we want to win, we dont want to see what ur affection to the players is. there is a lot of pressure on the managers when we dont win, and there are a lot of comments about the managers that they may not like, well earth to terry, we say these for a reason and it wouldnt hurt to listen every once in awhile if ur doing poorly like u r. i mean, just reading some of the posts by some people like ELS especially, it sounds like he knows enough to take over the managers spot from terry, and i wouldnt be disappointed. he understands that the object is to win and who gives a fuck if the players get along or not. if they are doing well thats all that matters. teach them how to get better, so u can win a freakin championship. goddamn it terry, U DONT KNOW WHAT U GOT URSELF INTO BY COMING HERE.

[elsrbueno]

I&#39;m ressurecting this thread because I HATE Terry Francona.....

[schillingouttheks]

true dat

[Sizzlin22]

I jsut don&#39;t like Franconas attitude he dosen&#39;t have control over the club.

[schillingouttheks]

welcome to what we think sizzlin...he doesnt have the desire to win, only the heart to care for the players....

[sarasoxfan]

I say fire the fuckhead the next game we lose.....every win saves his ass for more day.

[Sizzlin22]

I think Theo needs to make a deal and FAST.