Official Pedro Martinez Thread

[kyle5000]

:D
I didn't see the game but I just saw the highlight on "Baseball Tonight."

8 IP 2 Hits 8 Strikeouts

:)

He said he finally figured out his mechanical problems so maybe he will be back to him old self

[yeszir]

Let's all jump back on the bandwagon! :D

[RedSoxRooter]

Originally posted by yeszir@Jun 8 2004, 09:21 PM
Let's all jump back on the bandwagon! :D
Hey, if Pedro can pitch like that every start, give him what he wants. He can't - although I'd love nothing more.

[kyle5000]

by far his best outing of the season. If what he said is true and he has his mechanics in order then it bodes well for us :)

[JMDurron]

Somehow, I think Pedro was pitching scared, and didn't want to risk hurting his arm in his past starts. He apparently wasn't throwing off of the mound between starts as he did in seasons past, and you know that his brother's injuries and decline have to be in his mind.

I think that tonight's performance may have come, at least in part, from Pedro realizing that if he doesn't pitch to the best of his ability NOW, damn the shoulder, he isn't likely to see the payday he wants after this season.

But I'm a cynic.

Regardless, tonight was great to see, and whatever his motivation, I hope Pedro continues to perform like this from here on out.

[yagmaster]

Very impressed by Pedro's start, especially the fastball. A lot of people say he can get by on just his offspeed, but having a 93 mph fastball makes his changeup so much better than the 88 mph fastball. Also, he has struggled with his command of his fastball and curveball, but they were both great today.

About next year, if Pedro proves this effective and dominant for most of the season and stays healthy, I have no problem giving him whatever he wants for however long.

[Old Hoss]

After the game, Pedro said in his last two outings he had problems with his control on the breaking stuff, which led him to throw more fastballs. Throwing mostly fastballs made him pretty easy to figure out. Warm weather helps also.

[CowboyUpYours]

Pokey for President...amazing and sick play he made.

[YanksHater213]

he was on like donkey kong

lets now hope everyone can catch the 2 hit virus (except our offense)

[CalvnHobs6]

Originally posted by yeszir@Jun 8 2004, 10:21 PM
Let's all jump back on the bandwagon! :D
After pitching well again...we are starting to see the Pedro of old. As long as it's above 70 degees in his starts, it looks like all will be a-ok with the Sox co-ace.

[Pedro]

Pedro is launching a strike on his inflated ERA... and it is a positive one. Mass reduction in just TWO outings, great to see him hitting 94 on the gun for the third consecutive start. The real 'Pedro of Old' will never, ever return. However, Pedro of 2002-03, possibly the best in the game, has returned.

[tek33rules]

Let's look here for a min. at pedro's last 4 starts:

3-0, 1 ND,37.0 IP, 12 ER, 3 BB, 31K, 3 HR----------->>> 2.36 ERA


Now look at his last 3 yrs record after June 1:

28-5, 2.10 ERA, and an average of 7-8 IP per Game and 2-4 BB's per game, 8-12 K's per game, and finally 2-3 HR's per game also 2-3 ND average per season after 6/1.


So really are we looking at a new Pedro this year of is it the same old Pedro as we have seen in the past. Well i believe ther are some differences such as violacity, but other than that if Pedro's number continue the trend that they are currently going then this year's Pedro will have a 20-22 Win season.

[Pedro]

Wins are such a fickle stat these days that it really depends more on run support and the bullpen performance to dictate how many games a starter will win. If Pedro's past is any indication, we can certainly expect him to get some raw deals this year as well.

Here's a nice compilation of Pedro's supposed losing efforts and no-decisions since 1999:


04/15/99: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – LOSS
07/07/99: 8.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 14 K – LOSS
08/19/99: 7.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 0 BB, 11 K – LOSS
10/15/99: 7.0 IP, 8 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 14 K – No Decision

05/06/00: 9.0 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 17 K – LOSS
05/23/00: 8.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 7 K – LOSS
06/20/00: 8.0 IP, 5 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 9 K – LOSS
07/13/00: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – No Decision
08/08/00: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 9 K – LOSS
09/09/00: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 9 K – LOSS
09/20/00: 8.0 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 9 K – LOSS

04/02/01: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K – No Decision
04/14/01: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 9 K – No Decision
04/25/01: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 10 K – No Decision
05/24/01: 8.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 12 K - LOSS

08/16/02: 8.0 IP, 8 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – LOSS

03/31/03: 7.0 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 6 K – No Decision
04/27/03: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – No Decision
06/21/03: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 7 K – No Decision
07/07/03: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 11 K – No Decision
07/12/03: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 8 K – No Decision

05/11/04: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 11 K – No Decision


Obviously, 23 wins in 1999 was pretty good, but he really truly deserved to lose 1 game that entire year, and it ended up being a no-decision. Pedro was worthy of over 25 wins that year.

2000 was perhaps the roughest of all... he set single-season ML records in ERA+, WHIP, BR/9 IP, BAA & OBA and still ended up with a disgusting 18-6 record. Look at those "losses"... that is absolutely BRUTAL. You could argue that he pitched well enough to win every single game he started... the only blemish was a 6 ER outing... Pedro later called it his best outing of the year because the Pen was banged up and he stuck around for 8 innings, eventually retiring them one after another.

2002 was the only season he didn't really get squeezed, going 20-4.

And of course, Pedro should've won 19-20 games last season if the bullpen could've closed any games for him at all.

I don't have his 1997 game log, but it isn't too hard to figure out what was going on there. Pedro pitched 241 innings of 1.90 ERA ball and ended up with a dismal 17-8 record. Just insulting, really. Like Bob Gibson losing NINE games when he posted a 1.12 ERA in 1968. Meanwhile, Andy Pettitte was throwing up ERA's around 4 and winning 20+ games. Pffft.

[TheFens]

Originally posted by Pedro@Jun 14 2004, 11:35 AM
Wins are such a fickle stat these days that it really depends more on run support and the bullpen performance to dictate how many games a starter will win. If Pedro's past is any indication, we can certainly expect him to get some raw deals this year as well.

Here's a nice compilation of Pedro's supposed losing efforts and no-decisions since 1999:


04/15/99: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – LOSS
07/07/99: 8.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 14 K – LOSS
08/19/99: 7.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 0 BB, 11 K – LOSS
10/15/99: 7.0 IP, 8 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 14 K – No Decision

05/06/00: 9.0 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 17 K – LOSS
05/23/00: 8.0 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 7 K – LOSS
06/20/00: 8.0 IP, 5 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 9 K – LOSS
07/13/00: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – No Decision
08/08/00: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 9 K – LOSS
09/09/00: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 9 K – LOSS
09/20/00: 8.0 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 9 K – LOSS

04/02/01: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K – No Decision
04/14/01: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 9 K – No Decision
04/25/01: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 10 K – No Decision
05/24/01: 8.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 12 K - LOSS

08/16/02: 8.0 IP, 8 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – LOSS

03/31/03: 7.0 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 6 K – No Decision
04/27/03: 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 10 K – No Decision
06/21/03: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 7 K – No Decision
07/07/03: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 11 K – No Decision
07/12/03: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 8 K – No Decision

05/11/04: 7.0 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 11 K – No Decision


Obviously, 23 wins in 1999 was pretty good, but he really truly deserved to lose 1 game that entire year, and it ended up being a no-decision. Pedro was worthy of over 25 wins that year.

2000 was perhaps the roughest of all... he set single-season ML records in ERA+, WHIP, BR/9 IP, BAA & OBA and still ended up with a disgusting 18-6 record. Look at those "losses"... that is absolutely BRUTAL. You could argue that he pitched well enough to win every single game he started... the only blemish was a 6 ER outing... Pedro later called it his best outing of the year because the Pen was banged up and he stuck around for 8 innings, eventually retiring them one after another.

2002 was the only season he didn't really get squeezed, going 20-4.

And of course, Pedro should've won 19-20 games last season if the bullpen could've closed any games for him at all.

I don't have his 1997 game log, but it isn't too hard to figure out what was going on there. Pedro pitched 241 innings of 1.90 ERA ball and ended up with a dismal 17-8 record. Just insulting, really. Like Bob Gibson losing NINE games when he posted a 1.12 ERA in 1968. Meanwhile, Andy Pettitte was throwing up ERA's around 4 and winning 20+ games. Pffft.
I'm sorry to write such a short response to such a good post, but Pedro is a complete and utter beast. He dominates even during his losses. :D

And Yankee fans are stupid. :rolleyes:

[CalvnHobs6]

Great post fella! If all posts could be that informative, we'd all be better off.

Yankees suck.

[TheFens]

Pedro's fastball is back, for good I think. He's hitting 94 more than a few times per game now, and he looks sharp. I'm not sure if its something mental, or if he actually did find a flaw in his delivery as he said he did. Maybe some sort of placebo effect going on? In any case, I'm damn glad he can get it up there in the mid 90's. I was sick and tired of the 89 mph gopher balls.

If Dave Wallace really helped him fix his mechanics, props to Dave Wallace. I've always thought pitching coaches were kind of just a figurehead, with no real job, but if one could fix Pedro .... I guess I changed my mind. :D

Here's to him keeping it up!

[yawkeyway]

Did this thread get smaller all of a sudden? I remember it being a lot longer before....

[Pedro]

Wallace suggested Pedro look at tapes, something Pedro admits he rarely does. He watched them, found the flaw and corrected it immediately.

[roary]

Originally posted by Pedro@Jun 15 2004, 07:19 PM
Wallace suggested Pedro look at tapes, something Pedro admits he rarely does. He watched them, found the flaw and corrected it immediately.
Does anyone know why Pedro doesnt watch tapes? As this shows, they really help pitchers out, because they get to see a point of view on their delivery that they normally dont see. Is he just too cocky to stoop down to other pitchers' levels and watch tapes?

In any case, I'm glad he's back.

[Pedro]

Originally posted by roary+Jun 15 2004, 07:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (roary @ Jun 15 2004, 07:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pedro@Jun 15 2004, 07:19 PM
Wallace suggested Pedro look at tapes, something Pedro admits he rarely does. He watched them, found the flaw and corrected it immediately.
Does anyone know why Pedro doesnt watch tapes? As this shows, they really help pitchers out, because they get to see a point of view on their delivery that they normally dont see. Is he just too cocky to stoop down to other pitchers&#39; levels and watch tapes?

In any case, I&#39;m glad he&#39;s back. [/b][/quote]
I&#39;m not sure... maybe it bores him or something. I remember him saying that back in the late 90s he wouldn&#39;t watch any film and he&#39;d just glance at scouting reports... he just basically threw whatever he felt was right to whoever was up at the plate. He used to be so great he could get away with it. Not anymore, tragically.

He should do side sessions, watch film and study scouting reports to stay on top of his game. Oh yeah, keep bringing those 94 mph heaters too.

[yawkeyway]

Didn&#39;t he recently stop the side sessions? I remember hearing that the reason he was so dominant was that he constantly kept his arm warm by throwing on the side. But I also heard that he stopped recently. This lef me to believe, by transitivity, that side sessions make him a stronger pitcher. He should continue with those.

[Pedro]

I suppose this can be the &#39;Pedro thread&#39; throughout the year instead of having to start multiple new ones. With that, here&#39;s an article from The Globe today:


DENVER -- There is a positive buzz around Pedro Martinez again. The fans are cheering his every pitch. When he starts, it&#39;s an event again.

If he&#39;s at peace with himself right now, it&#39;s because he&#39;s let all of the distractions go. He is not being emotional when it comes to his contract and his future in Boston. Martinez said last night that he has let that go and he deeply regrets the April 30 interview he gave in Texas, when he said his piece about becoming a free agent at the end of the season.

"I said some things that I should never have said," Martinez said about a half-hour before last night&#39;s game. "At that point I probably should have just shut my mouth. A lot of people misjudged that, the media fed on that. Some of the comments that were made gave it a different meaning.

"I&#39;m actually all about winning, and instead of thinking about myself and my future, I should have just not said anything. I just wanted to accommodate the media because they had been waiting for me to say something and they were being very patient with me while I wasn&#39;t saying anything. I just wanted to say what was going on at the time and get you guys off my back."

When Martinez struggled out of the gate this season -- following a spring training littered with biting comments about ownership -- a cloud seemed to surround him. Now he&#39;s broken through the clouds. He&#39;s pitching well again. He&#39;s making adjustments on the fly. He&#39;s up to seven wins, and who&#39;s to say that thoughts of 20 are far off? Martinez emphasized last night that he is 100 percent engulfed in the concept of winning it all with this group.

"I never think Cy Young," Martinez said. "I&#39;m just thinking consistency right now. I&#39;m just thinking about what my outings mean to the team. I&#39;m just going along with the effort that everybody is making to win it all, particularly this year.

"I&#39;m not going to let any other thing distract me from our team winning."

He has fixed some of the mechanical deficiencies he had earlier in the year. Though he has always downplayed the velocity factor, even that is coming back. He dominated the Padres last week, allowing two hits over eight innings, then backed that up with a very good seven-inning outing against the Dodgers Sunday. His ERA (3.77) is inching down into a respectable area. And the fans, who never really turned on him but certainly were upset about the contract comments, are up on their feet cheering madly again.

"I thought that I always had the fans," said Martinez. "They know what kind of effort I put out there. I don&#39;t have anything bad to say against the fans."

Martinez concedes that he was affected by the weather early in the season. Since his shoulder injury in 2001, pitching in cold weather is different for him. He was once dominant, no matter what the month. Now, he says, he&#39;s had to change the way he gets loose and warms up to accommodate his shoulder. Yet he says his shoulder has never felt better. He&#39;s been able to absorb 100-plus pitches in most of his starts lately. He&#39;s even healthier than Curt Schilling right now.

Martinez is reinventing himself on the fly, and he is able to win while doing so. "Thank God that while I&#39;m adjusting I&#39;m able to pitch well enough where I can still compete like that," Martinez said. "But if a down year comes, people will just have to accept that and just understand that I&#39;m out there trying hard. I&#39;m trying my best out there. When it works that&#39;s great, but when it doesn&#39;t work, I&#39;m still going to give people their money&#39;s worth."

He doesn&#39;t care for comparisons to his brother Ramon, whose career ended -- some thought prematurely -- because of a torn labrum. First of all, Martinez disputes all reports that he tore his labrum, and he said Ramon left the game for family reasons -- to save his marriage and because his young daughter wanted her father home. Martinez said his body and his brother&#39;s body are completely different, as are their throwing motions.

At 32, he said, he&#39;s relearning to pitch for the long haul. Maybe he won&#39;t blaze a 96-mile-per-hour fastball past a hitter, but he can get the job done in other ways. While he doesn&#39;t envision pitching at age 40, he doesn&#39;t see his career over at 35, either. And this is where the Red Sox will have to weigh the risk of offering a contract of more than two years.

"I&#39;m waiting for my body to dictate to me how long I&#39;m going to pitch," Martinez said. "I don&#39;t want to embarrass myself out there. I want to leave the game knowing I gave the best of myself."


Sounds good to me.

[yeszir]

Renaming thread now.

[Pedro]

Pedro to become a GIANT?

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...SPGC778NVE1.DTL (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/19/SPGC778NVE1.DTL)


Now pitching for the 2005 San Francisco Giants ... Pedro Martinez?

It&#39;s a pipe dream, but Martinez likes the idea. The Red Sox ace, who faces the Giants today, has great respect for Felipe Alou and told The Chronicle on Friday he would love to pitch for Alou in San Francisco next season if contract talks with Boston do not pan out.

"I don&#39;t see why not," Martinez said. "I have all the respect in the world for Felipe and would love to play for him anytime." That would mean a return to the West Coast, but the onetime Dodger said, "That doesn&#39;t matter. I played here before. I know what it&#39;s like. I know the San Francisco area and I wouldn&#39;t mind it, not at all."

Of course, the odds of a Martinez-Alou reunion are slim because he would be the highest-priced pitcher on the free-agent market. But his relationship with Alou could become a factor. Martinez was considered a talented but uncontrollable pitcher when the Dodgers traded him to Montreal after the 1993 season. There, under Alou, he won the first of his three Cy Young awards.

"The reason I&#39;m here in the big leagues and I am who I am is because of Felipe giving me a chance of becoming a starter and reassuring me that I&#39;ll be in the rotation," Martinez said. "Everything I have today I owe to him and God. "

Alou has a soft spot for Martinez, too, saying, "He is like one of my sons. I have very many sons, real sons, but I have a lot of other sons in baseball, and he&#39;s one of them, not only because of the kind of pitcher he is but also because of the kind of relationship we have."

Pedro vs. Barry: Martinez sounded resigned to walking Barry Bonds under certain circumstances. He does not approach the confrontation with the same reckless bravado Sidney Ponson displayed in Baltimore.

"I&#39;ll just do whatever the game dictates," Martinez said. "I respect Barry. He&#39;s probably the best player in the game. I have to respect him and do whatever&#39;s possible to win a ballgame. Forget about pride. And if you&#39;re thinking about intimidation, I&#39;m not intimidated. He took me deep before and I&#39;m not afraid to fail."


I had already been predicting this last week.

[YanksHater213]

Thats BS, do you believe everything you hear. Just because he respects the greatest hitter ever doesnt mean hes going there

[Pedro]

Originally posted by YanksHater213@Jun 20 2004, 03:27 AM
Thats BS, do you believe everything you hear. Just because he respects the greatest hitter ever doesnt mean hes* going there
Did you read the whole article? The main reason it interests him is because Felipe Alou, his former manager from 1994-97, is running the show there. He also apparently likes the ballpark and the city.


The Red Sox ace, who faces the Giants today, has great respect for Felipe Alou and told The Chronicle on Friday he would love to pitch for Alou in San Francisco next season if contract talks with Boston do not pan out.

"I don&#39;t see why not," Martinez said. "I have all the respect in the world for Felipe and would love to play for him anytime." That would mean a return to the West Coast, but the onetime Dodger said, "That doesn&#39;t matter. I played here before. I know what it&#39;s like. I know the San Francisco area and I wouldn&#39;t mind it, not at all."

I&#39;ve believed all along that if Pedro doesn&#39;t resign with Boston, that he&#39;d be headed to San Francisco, Anaheim or Los Angeles.

Pedro has said time and time again that he wants to finish in Boston and will take less money than he could get from another franchise to finish here. That&#39;s his 1st choice... if they jerk him around, he&#39;ll probably be headed to San Francisco because it looks as if Bonds is looking to DH in the AL next season (Obviously not in Boston :rolleyes:) which would free up his 18 mill and allow them to sign Pedro... after yesterday&#39;s game, he looks like he needs to DH full time. :lol:

I&#39;d love for Pedro to finish in a Red Sox uniform, but it may be in both his and the Red Sox best interest if they part ways. For him, he&#39;d completely revive his career by returning to the National League full-time for the 1st time since 1997 and finally get a pitcher&#39;s ballpark to start half his games in. I guarantee he&#39;ll go on a Clemens-esque run. He&#39;ll also get a chance to actually complete some of his games under Alou, which he can still do. He had pitched 13 complete games in 1997. Comes to Boston in 1998 and only completes 3 that year.

The 105 pitch thing is stupid, everyone gets hit harder after 105 pitches. Game 7 is one example and a bad one at that - It was at the very end of the season when he had well over 200 total innings on his arm. The fact that people think he can&#39;t go 9 innings anymore is just laughable. Maybe if he was given a chance once every dozen starts. I mean Jesus Christ, he is a 32 year old man. He hasn&#39;t had a shoulder injury since 2001. It isn&#39;t like he just signed a mult-year deal... it&#39;s his contract season -- He&#39;s making 17.5 million dollars... let him complete a start for CHRIST SAKE. God Damn.

He won&#39;t be lowering that ERA if he doesn&#39;t get innings to pitch. And like yesterday, Damon PHing, hell, Pedro could&#39;ve struck out too and stayed in the game... Pedro had a better AB than almost anybody all day and why the hell wasn&#39;t Damon starting to begin with? A day off, sure... but THREE starters for the same game and on Pedro&#39;s start no less? That&#39;s BS... Maybe if Nixon had been playing the whole game, the RED SOX could&#39;ve won and scored MORE RUNS.... maybe Pedro could&#39;ve got a W in it, and yeah, bring Foulke in with a 5-run lead, but not a tie game?

[TheFens]

Originally posted by Pedro@Jun 20 2004, 06:59 AM
Pedro has said time and time again that he wants to finish in Boston and will take less money than he could get from another franchise to finish here. That&#39;s his 1st choice... if they jerk him around, he&#39;ll probably be headed to San Francisco because it looks as if Bonds is looking to DH in the AL next season (Obviously not in Boston :rolleyes:) which would free up his 18 mill and allow them to sign Pedro... after yesterday&#39;s game, he looks like he needs to DH full time. :lol:

He&#39;d been saying that up until this season. After spring training, where he wasnt signed, he&#39;d been saying that he&#39;d take less money for Boston, and was willing to stay here. Now he&#39;s saying that he wants to test FA, and that Boston would have to compete with other teams for his service. I&#39;m not sure if Boston is really his 1st choice. I think wherever is willing to pay the most money is his first choice.


I&#39;d love for Pedro to finish in a Red Sox uniform, but it may be in both his and the Red Sox best interest if they part ways. For him, he&#39;d completely revive his career by returning to the National League full-time for the 1st time since 1997 and finally get a pitcher&#39;s ballpark to start half his games in. I guarantee he&#39;ll go on a Clemens-esque run. He&#39;ll also get a chance to actually complete some of his games under Alou, which he can still do. He had pitched 13 complete games in 1997. Comes to Boston in 1998 and only completes 3 that year.
But if this happens, and he does indeed turn Clemens-esque, won&#39;t we all be shooting ourselves for letting him go? I understand that the ballpark and the NL may have something to do with it, but still....

Also, if he has to go, so long as he doesnt go to an AL team I&#39;d be happy.

[Zenny]

Anyone have any idea why John Burkett... I mean Pedro has been so awful in the first inning this year, but very effective most innings after that?

[RedSoxRooter]

Originally posted by Zenny@Jun 21 2004, 11:09 AM
Anyone have any idea why John Burkett... I mean Pedro has been so awful in the first inning this year, but very effective most innings after that?
Ahhh. The question that runs through my mind every time he pitches. I honestly think this is the problem.

He needs to throw about 15-20 more pitches to warm up for a start. Without them he has no life on the fastball until he&#39;s at about 20 pitches, which he tries to establish the first time through an order. Once he gets through the order once, he uses his other pitches and pitches off his fastball.

That being said, Pedro is really only "good" for about 85-90 pitches per start (if you go by the 106 pitch count phylosophy). That would be pitches 20 - 105.

That&#39;s why when he threw between starts last time he was more effective in the first inning.

Scroll down and look at the split for pitches 1-15 then 16-30. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=4875&type=pitching&year=2004)

On pitches 1-15, batters hit .412 against Pedro with only 9 Ks. On pitches 16-30, batters are batting .196 with 18 Ks. This is when Pedro&#39;s arm gets loose.

So what to do? He could throw between starts more - something I&#39;d suggest. But it may wear him down later in the season. He could throw 15-20 more warm up pitches, but that would certainly reduce him to 6 innings/start.

Honestly, I don&#39;t really think pitch count should be such a big deal with all our pitchers. I think it&#39;s probably healthier to pitch 115-125 pitches a start to build up strength, but Frank&#39;s got his stats.... :rolleyes:

[Pedro]

Originally posted by RedSoxRooter@Jun 21 2004, 11:30 AM
Honestly, I don&#39;t really think pitch count should be such a big deal with all our pitchers. I think it&#39;s probably healthier to pitch 115-125 pitches a start to build up strength...


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PITCH COUNTS, SCHMIDT COUNTS.... LET HIM "EARN" HIS MONEY. :angry:

[TheFens]

Originally posted by Pedro+Jun 21 2004, 03:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pedro @ Jun 21 2004, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RedSoxRooter@Jun 21 2004, 11:30 AM
Honestly, I don&#39;t really think pitch count should be such a big deal with all our pitchers. I think it&#39;s probably healthier to pitch 115-125 pitches a start to build up strength...


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PITCH COUNTS, SCHMIDT COUNTS.... LET HIM "EARN" HIS MONEY. :angry: [/b][/quote]
You honestly don&#39;t think that there&#39;s any value to pitch counts? You want to see Pedro out there 130+ pitches, "earning" his paycheck? We&#39;ve all seen what can happen to Pedro, DL. You&#39;d rather have him finish a game once in a while, but only get 10 starts due to injury?

[Pedro]

Edited:

I actually had the good sense to look at his game log this season, and feel much better about things now.

[Pedro]

Well I&#39;ll be damn... It looks like ESPN is actually going to have a SportsCentury to show about Pedro. They even have his short bio listed among everybody else.




The Intimidator

By Bob Carter
Special to ESPN.com

"He had a reputation of being a headhunter. So now, he&#39;s an intimidator and that&#39;s part of his game. And that makes him great," says Red Sox teammate Alan Embree on ESPN Classic&#39;s SportsCentury.

What major league pitchers crave, what most search for endlessly, came early to Pedro Martinez. By his mid-20s, the Dominican marvel had gathered up the big C&#39;s - control, command and confidence - in a way that set him apart from almost everyone of his era. "I&#39;m not afraid of hitting anyone," he said in 2000, "because I can put the ball where I want to."

This, ironically, from a man who sometimes hit batters with a disturbing frequency, whose sudden lack of control touched off fights and cost him respect. In short time, Martinez flaunted the C&#39;s, giant-sized them even. Matched with a smallish body, they nimbly built a pitching style that inspired incredulity. How did someone 5-foot-11 and 175 pounds generate such power and precision? And how long before this undersized tornado flamed out? His command of three pitches left most batters guessing and gasping.

"You just don&#39;t know what he&#39;s going to throw," Rafael Palmeiro said. "The count doesn&#39;t matter. There is no pattern. He can throw you a changeup at 2-0. He can throw you a curveball 3-2. Whatever, he throws them all for strikes."

Martinez&#39;s strikeout-walk ratios staggered the stat geeks. In 1999, his sixth season as a starter, the righthander struck out 8.46 batters for every walk (313 to 37), a number that dwarfed all the strikeout pitchers before him. He went to 8.88 the next year. By comparison, Sandy Koufax&#39;s ratio was 5.38:1 in 1965, when he went 26-8 with a 2.04 ERA, and Bob Gibson, in his 1.12 ERA season of 1962, had a 4.32 ratio.

Little wonder that Martinez won three Cy Young Awards over his first eight full seasons, that he had a 166-67 record and 2.58 career ERA through 2003, that he&#39;d command a &#036;91-million, seven-year contract and fling cockiness as easy as a 97-mph fastball. "I have no doubts I can beat anybody," he said. "I always like to face the best: Maddux, Glavine, the big guys."

Pedro Jaime Martinez was born on Oct. 25, 1971 in Manoguayabo, a small, impoverished town outside of the Dominican capital of Santo Domingo. His father, Paulino, an amateur baseball player, and his mother, Leopoldina, divorced before he was 10.

He learned baseball from his father and older brother Ramon, who pitched in the majors for 14 seasons. At age 16, Pedro followed Ramon to the Dodgers&#39; organization, signing with Los Angeles in 1988 for a &#036;6,500 bonus that he gave to his brother. He threw 82 mph and weighed about 140 pounds.

In two years, though, his fastball was up to 91, and in four, Martinez was up for two September games for Los Angeles. The Dodgers used him as a middle reliever in 1993, and he went 10-5 with a 2.61 ERA. Uncertain if he had the strength and durability to be a starter, they traded him to Montreal in November for second baseman Delino DeShields.

Martinez earned a starting spot with the Expos, winning 38 games over his first three Montreal seasons, then dropped that deal on the Dodgers&#39; heads. After repeatedly plunking batters, receiving warnings and igniting brawls during his early years, Martinez stabilized in 1997. Up to 170 pounds, he went 17-8 with a 1.90 ERA, pitched 13 complete games, struck out 305 batters in 241 1/3 innings and won his first Cy Young Award. He dedicated the honor to countryman Juan Marichal.

The cash-poor Expos, though, couldn&#39;t afford Martinez and put him on the market after the season. "I&#39;m more sad than mad at them," he said. "That&#39;s their politics, and that&#39;s the way they do things."

In November, the Expos dealt him to Boston for pitchers Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr. in another one-sided deal. Martinez proved that 1997 was no fluke, going 19-7 with a 2.89 ERA in his first season and giving Red Sox fans renewed hope of a long-awaited World Series title.

The strikeouts kept coming at a phenomenal pace, more than one per inning year after year, reaching a high of 313 in 1999. Strikeout pitchers under six feet had long been a rarity in the sport. Pitching coach Joe Kerrigan, who worked with Martinez in Montreal and Boston and helped him gain better control of his fastball, said much of Pedro&#39;s power came from his strong, muscular legs.

Martinez cited a high degree of coordination and what he considered better balance in a smaller-sized body. "By not being so big," he said, "you can be more compact and more consistent."

From 1997, his last Montreal season, through 2003, no pitcher was as effective as Martinez. Seven consecutive years of sub-2.90 ERAs and a 118-36 record with 1,761 strikeouts in 1,408 innings.

"If you give him a big lead," former Boston teammate Mo Vaughn said, "you can cancel Christmas."

Martinez retired batters and he challenged them, grabbing the inside part of the plate and pushing them off it. Many thought he was a headhunter in Montreal. "He pitched inside aggressively and hit people for the effect," Todd Zeile said, although the Expos pointed to a fastball that simply moved too much.

In Boston, his control became sharper, but Martinez still irritated batters with close pitches.

He earned consecutive unanimous Cy Young Awards in 1999 and 2000, gaining 41 victories over the two years. He fanned five of six batters in winning the All-Star Game MVP award in 1999, and later that year turned in an awesome performance in the divisional playoffs against Cleveland.

Limited by a strained back muscle, Martinez didn&#39;t start Game 5. But after Boston allowed eight runs in three innings, he relieved and threw six hitless innings, throwing 97 pitches, many of them no faster than 85 mph. Martinez was the winner in the 12-8 victory as Boston advanced to the AL Championship Series.

"I put my career in jeopardy that game. I knew that," he said. "Why? We had to win the game."

After soreness in his right shoulder limited him to 18 games (7-3, 2.39 ERA) in 2001, the Red Sox started guarding his pitch count, trying to keep him near 100, and spotting him an occasional extra day of rest between starts. He averaged 114 pitches per start in 1998, 112 the next year and 109 in 2000. From 1996-2000, he worked more than 210 innings each season.

"When you&#39;re in a lot of low-run games," said Hall of Famer Jim Palmer, "you have a tendency to go all-out to every hitter. That takes its toll."

After the 2001 season, Martinez started lifting weights for the first time, began a more serious training regimen and added almost 15 pounds. He rebounded with a 20-4 record and 2.26 ERA. Then he went 14-4, 2.22 in 2003, a season in which Boston almost made the World Series.

He stirred trouble in Game 3 of the ALCS when he hit the Yankees&#39; Karim Garcia with a pitch, leading to a scuffle later in the contest with New York&#39;s 72-year-old coach Don Zimmer, who charged him and was tossed to the ground by Martinez.

In Game 7, he took a 5-2 lead into the bottom of the eighth but couldn&#39;t hold on as manager Grady Little went with his ace rather than his bullpen. The Yankees scored three runs off a tiring Martinez, then they won the pennant on Aaron Boone&#39;s 11th-inning homer off Tim Wakefield.

Martinez long has expressed a love for his role as a starter, the control he exerts over a game and pride in his durability. Yet when asked about possibly ending his career as closer, he seemed open to the idea. "I wouldn&#39;t mind, as long as I&#39;m in baseball," he said in 2002. "I&#39;d be like Mariano [Rivera] - not as good probably, but who knows?"

Pedro Martinez, who has won three Cy Young Awards, and was screwed out of a 4th as well as two MVP Awards, will be profiled on July 26 at 9 and 11 p.m. ET.


Source: Pedro Classic (http://msn.espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Martinez_Pedro.html)