The official Derek Lowe thread

[roary]

I bet questions regarding D-Lowe will continue to pop up over the course of the season, so why not make an official thread dealing with these matters?


2004 BOS 6 6 3 3 0 0 0 32.1 45 27 18 1 16 15 5.01 1.89 .328

His stats are nothing to be proud of, and I fear we've lost the Lowe of yesteryear. I get the sense that a lot of people agree on this one. So, do the sox even need to make an effort to resign him? Does Boras make it a moot point?

[TheFens]

I don't think this year can be considered an anomalie (sp?). Lowe just hasn't been on at all. He isnt worth 10 ml/year, thats for sure.

But remember last year? He was spot on in the second half, after having an even worse first half than he's on pace for now. Again with the inconsistency, I know, but he's inconsistent!

He also has some mental issues. It seems at times that his head isn't in the game, and he often just loses it after doing something wrong. His failure as a closer after saving 42 shows this. I doubt his bout with cancer helped either.

[Steinbrennerisanazi]

I think that the redsox should make Varitek a priority over lowe.They should still try to keep lowe since he's a big part of the team.

[jarjar]

Didn't he start really shaky LAST year only to end up with 17 wins?

If it weren't for him we wouldn't beaten the A's in the ALDS!

Give him a couple more games before you decide, although I'd choose keeping Tek if it HAD to come down to one of the 2...
Hopefully it won't come down to that.

I see him finding his way soon- especially when Nomar and Trot return. B)

[dirtdogman5]

Originally posted by jarjar@May 15 2004, 08:25 PM
Didn't he start really shaky LAST year only to end up with 17 wins?

Yeah, he had 17 wins because of his run support. Don't forget that his ERA was over 4.

[RedSox24]

Well he has had some bad years. His first year was hillarious, i would assure a loss whenever he came to the mound. He started like 0-9 and i remember when he got his first win. It was great

[Zenny]

Lowe's as good as gone, no matter how well or how poorly he pitches. If he pitches well, he'll price himself out of the Sox's range. If he pitches poorly, they're not going to want him back for the rediculous amounts of money he's asking for. Of all the potential free agents, he's the most likely to be gone.

[yeszir]

But you can't really feel too bad for the guy. He did it to himself by rejecting the offers made to him outright and asking for a ridiculous amount of money. He alienated the fans and the team by doing so, and is pitching poorly as a result of it (maybe).

You can't say he's a terrible pitcher either though. Anyone who throws a no-hitter is a good pitcher, there's no denying it. He definitely doesn't look too good THIS year though (his last outing was decent though). I agree with Zenny, he's the biggest certainty to leave the team next year. I just hope he doesnt end up on another AL east team and shut us down. :(

Personally, I see him going back to the Mariners. They need pitching, and he was one of their prospects along with Tek. Haha, we got him and Tek for Slocumb, what a deal!

[yawkeyway]

Haha, yes! What a steal that trade was. We got Tek, one of our most consistent producers and one of the best catchers in baseball, and Lowe, who has shown signs of brilliance. But I guess this thread is about how Lowe is not brilliant right now. He's gone, I agree with that, but he isnt as bad a pitcher as he looks right now.

It's just his mental makeup. He doesn't have the mentality of a pitcher, starter or otherwise. He showed this 3 years ago when the whole "loooowe, looooowe..... YOU SUCK" phenomenom took place.

[JMDurron]

Derek Lowe is the most talented 4-year-old I've ever seen on the mound. He still has the talent, he's just so shaky personality -ise that I don't see him ever reproducing his 2002 numbers with the Red Sox. He may be the type of player who desperately needs a smaller market like Detroit (they have money, small market right now, and isn't he from there originally?) to reach his full potential consistently, a la Jeff Weaver.

[GrassInZimsTeeth]

Lowe needs to go on a backpacking trip through Europe so he can "find himself," then maybe we can expect a little more stability out of him. I can't figure out which Derek Lowe is going to step on the mound day to day. When the guy has his head screwed on right he throws a no-hitter, sub 3.00 ERA for the season or knocks down 40+ saves. He can't do anything wrong when he's in it. The rest of the time he's checking first and peeking to see if his ass looks big.

[jarjar]

He DOES check his ass alot : :lol: You pointed out something I've noticed and never thought twice about!

I think we need to support him at least til the end of the year... what if he reads this stuff we all write? You never know!

The team now isn't the solid crew we need to win, and pray when N + T come back the chemistry will all gel-

I can't WAIT to see Trot "trot" into right, and we need Crespo "No-mar" ....

Get back SOON GUYS! GO LOWE !!!! I still love you.

[yawkeyway]

Haha, I haven't noticed the ass thing but I'll definitely need to see it now. He seems like he can get really distracted with things (whether it be his ass or the second baseman's shoe). As grassinzimsteeth said, he can be spot on or way off.

And jarjar, I think the players have better things to do than read fans bash them on message boards. :D. It would be cool, but I doubt they do. I wouldn't want to read criticism online if I were a baseball player.

[TheFens]

Some good news from Benmaller.com:

... the Red Sox would prefer to re-sign Pedro Martinez instead of Lowe after the season, when both are eligible for free agency. That choice is partly motivated by a belief among Red Sox officials that if Martinez hits the market, George Steinbrenner will spend anything necessary to sign him."

We don't have to deal with him anymore, for those of you who hate him. I'd MUCH rather see Pedro resigned than Lowe. Pedro's worth the 5 mil more, even at the rate he's pitching now. He's only going to improve as the season progresses I bet.

[JMDurron]

Pedro may or may not be worth his asking price. Lowe definitely isn't. That makes it kind of easy to figure out who management would prefer to make a push at to sign.

[YanksHater213]

LOWE YOU SUCK, GET THE THE HELL OFF MY TEAM , YOU SUCK

[Old Hoss]

I think Lowe needs a psychologist........wonder if Dr. Phil is available.

[YanksHater213]

maybe lowe is on the yankees payroll too...

[dirtdogman5]

My God a few bad starts and the Nation totally abandons him? Have faith fellas. I'll admit I'm not too happy with his performances so far but we can't give up on him so quickly.

[yawkeyway]

Originally posted by dirtdogman5@May 22 2004, 11:04 PM
My God a few bad starts and the Nation totally abandons him? Have faith fellas. I'll admit I'm not too happy with his performances so far but we can't give up on him so quickly.
But it isnt a few bad starts. He's given up 6+ runs in 4 out of his 8 starts this season. I don't think we're giving up on him that quickly then. His ERA is at 6.02. It's not like its only been two starts into the season, we're talking about 8 starts so far and 40.1 innings. His WHIP is up there near 2 as well.

Also, he's been pitching poorly both home and away, but he's pitched REALLY poorly at home. Seeing one of your supposedly good starters struggle so much, especially at home, is a tough thing. If this continues I think the fans are justified in their hatred. I expect to see the "LOOOWE, LOOOWE.....YOU SUCK" chant making a comeback sometime soon.

[ACL BoSox]

a 6.02 ERA is not a few bad starts...

Now, I'm willing to give him one more chance, against Seattle or Oakland, I forget who's first. If he fails again, he's gone. In my opinion, he's going to get traded anyway.

[yeszir]

Originally posted by ACL BoSox@May 23 2004, 10:09 AM
a 6.02 ERA is not a few bad starts...

Now, I'm willing to give him one more chance, against Seattle or Oakland, I forget who's first. If he fails again, he's gone. In my opinion, he's going to get traded anyway.
Oakland's first. But no one will want him if we try to trade him. He has, as you said, a 6.02 ERA, which is not good by any team's standards.

Plus, he's being bitchy and asking for 10+ million per year! What team wants that kind of player in their roster?

[CalvnHobs6]

I say don't even bother trying to trade him. Just hold on to him for the year. I think he's good foir 12-15 wins, and then we just don't resign him. If he gets his head out of his ass and decides to cut his asking price, say, I don't know, in half, then maybe sign him for 3 more. If not, adios muchacho.

[GrassInZimsTeeth]

I don't trust Scott Boras. I think he's pushing the envelope way to far with Lowe asking for eight figures. He's a dangerous person, so much so I wouldn't put it past him to be using his other clients for his cause. I love Jason Varitek like a brother, but I'm not seeing the same things he's seeing.


"He just needs something to go right," says Varitek. "I'm tired of hearing what's wrong with him. His stuff is better than it was two years ago. His body language is better than last year. He's not quitting, like some people say; he's competing hard, and last year sometimes he did throw his arms up. Derek's going to come back and pitch some great games."

Maybe it's because I'm not behind the plate, but the results speak for themself: 6.02 ERA, 1.91 WHIP. That's almost a walk and a hit each inning my friends, not good. It makes me wonder if there's some kind of conspiracy going on with Boras as the ringmaster. Lowe and Tek have been together for a long time and both have Boras as their agent. I just hope Tek's being objective and not trying to puff up his buddy for the sake of the brotherhood.

[TheFens]

I don't think Tek saying that is Tek being objective, nor do I think it has to do with the "Boras Brotherhood" conspiracy, as you see it. :D . It's just that, what kind of catcher would go out and say "Yea, Lowe sucks. He's lost it. There's no way in hell that he's coming back."? You stick with your pitchers no matter what. I mean, most of the players on the team didnt blame Grady Little when the Game 7 implosion happened. How can you expect them to lay the blame on each other?

[TheFens]

Oh, and happy birthday GrassInZimsteeth, by the way. :D

[Old Hoss]

Lowe gets credit for Wednesday night's win and his ERA goes up up to 6.22. :rolleyes:

[yeszir]

Originally posted by Old Hoss@May 27 2004, 12:35 AM
Lowe gets credit for Wednesday night's win and his ERA goes up up to 6.22. :rolleyes:
Haha, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. He wins, pitches horribly, has his ERA go up, and no one really complains too much (because, hey, he got the win). He was still his normal, bad self.

[Old Hoss]

He makes it easier and easier on who NOT to re-sign next season.

[Old Hoss]

ERA up to 6.84..........this guy may not make it through the rest of this season, never mind a new contract.

[ajhuffman]

Lowe certainly did not pitch well yesterday, fortunately the offense and the Kansas City pitching bailed him out :D .

[YanksHater213]

whoa whoa whoa, lowe pitched very well, 3 hits in 5 or 6 innings (not sure), but im still not jumping back on the bandwagon

[roary]

Originally posted by ajhuffman@Jun 7 2004, 03:48 PM
Lowe certainly did not pitch well yesterday, fortunately the offense and the Kansas City pitching bailed him out :D .
And a big welcome to you!

Edit: Lowe didn't pitch poorly though. He didnt pitch great either, but its certainly an improvement on what he's done before.

[Old Hoss]

Originally posted by ajhuffman@Jun 7 2004, 02:48 PM
Lowe certainly did not pitch well yesterday, fortunately the offense and the Kansas City pitching bailed him out :D .
Did you watch the game? Lowe gave up only 3 hits, 1 walk, 3 runs of which only 2 were earned (1st inning) in 5 innings pitched. This is the least amount of hits he has given up in any start this year.

[GreenMonsterSeats]

He threw 48 strikes as well. I think once his mind is back in the game he will be fine. Maybe overconcentrating and trying to steer the ball a bit more than usual. There were rumors that he was tipping his pitches but I don't see it. I think he just forces it to much and when hits are given up or a bad call happens he gets frustrated and can't put things behind and move forward.

Glad to see him do well again...

[RedSoxNut04]

Finally, a decent start for D-Lowe, hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

[TheFens]

Definitely. If he keeps any sign of decency up, the sox will do well. I hate to say it, but our season is essentially dependent on Lowe's ability to get us wins.

[roary]

Ok, so after two good starts (one great) in a row, is D-Lowe back? He was lights out yesterday. Its a shame that Manny Ramirez sucks and had to blow the win for him, but he pitched the best he's pitched in years. I think I need to see one more quality start from him to become a believer again. Phew, I was getting worried.

[TheFens]

This is how I see it now. You get one of two extremes when Lowe is pitching. You either get the baby-man, break down mentally, crappy ass pitcher that we saw earlier on in the year, or you get the dominant, focused cy-young candidate that we saw yesterday. Hopefully he'll be able to avoid a 50-50 split in his personality, because I much prefer watching the cy young candidate pitch. :D

[yagmaster]

This is what is so frusterating about Lowe (and even Pedro, but to a lesser extent). We have seen how dominant he can be. He can be so good on some days that you just think to yourself "Damn, we can't let this guy go!" I think that the one positive we can take out of this season is that we might be able to get him for cheaper next year. But I still think he has Ace material.

[Old Hoss]

We can start worrying about Wakefield now. He has given up 29 hits in his last three starts and 17 earned runs. (17-2/3 innings pitched)

[Pedro]

Originally posted by yagmaster@Jun 12 2004, 01:31 PM
This is what is so frusterating about Lowe (and even Pedro, but to a lesser extent). We have seen how dominant he can be. He can be so good on some days that you just think to yourself "Damn, we can't let this guy go!" I think that the one positive we can take out of this season is that we might be able to get him for cheaper next year. But I still think he has Ace material.
Pedro has had some bad starts, but there honestly hasn't been a time this season that I said to myself "They have to keep Lowe!". Before his outing against Los Angeles, Lowe hadn't made a quality start since April 29. He could throw 3 straight CG shutouts - which he's obviously, obviously NOT going to do - and his ERA will still be over 4. That is how awful he's been.

The only difference on Friday from all of Lowe's other outings since April 29 was that he actually got out of what usually is a disasterous inning. This time the batters swung at Ball 4 with the bases loaded, this time they didn't walk in a run or smash it into the gap to clear the bases. By no means am I trying to demean 7 shutout innings of baseball, he did great... but he could've easily gotten smashed yet again.

Pedro on the otherhand, has a 1.94 ERA excluding just 3 outings. He's going to be fine.

[Old Hoss]

Actually, Lowe's starts on May 14 and June 6 were decent starts and of course this past start on June 11 was good.

[Pedro]

Yes, they were decent, but not official quality starts. Perhaps 5 IP of 2 ER ball like he did in KC is better than 6 and 3 ER (an official QS), but that is how it has gone thus far.

[TheFens]

Originally posted by Pedro@Jun 13 2004, 02:26 AM
Yes, they were decent, but not official quality starts. Perhaps 5 IP of 2 ER ball like he did in KC is better than 6 and 3 ER (an official QS), but that is how it has gone thus far.
I've never really been a fan of the whole "quality start" thing. I like judging pitchers on how I see them pitch. Lowe looked good in his past two starts, even if his June 6th outing wasnt a quality start.

Sure, there was the potential to get smashed there, but he didnt get smashed. This is a key characteristic of any great pitcher, the ability to get out of jams. Using your example, if Pedro didnt sometimes get batters to swing at ball 4, then he wouldn't be as dominant as he can be, and we would be criticizing him.

So, I think that he didnt just get lucky. He's probably snapped out of whatever bothered him (although with Lowe, you never know). Hopefully we'll see his better half now. We need that, with Schilling injury rumors abounding.

[yeszir]

Originally posted by Old Hoss@Jun 13 2004, 01:29 AM
Actually, Lowe's starts on May 14 and June 6 were decent starts and of course this past start on June 11 was good.
Let's hope he keeps it up. I'm sure most of RSN is torn between hating him and hoping he is back to his old form. It sure would be a shame if he tanked his next outing, wouldnt it be?

[JMDurron]

We need Lowe now more than ever, whether he tanks his next one or not. At least he's shown us that the good stuff is still there somewhere.

[roary]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 13 2004, 05:04 PM
We need Lowe now more than ever, whether he tanks his next one or not. At least he's shown us that the good stuff is still there somewhere.
That's a scary thought, isnt it? Especially after what he's put us through this season. Relying on Lowe = not my favorite thing.

[TheFens]

Originally posted by roary+Jun 13 2004, 05:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (roary @ Jun 13 2004, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JMDurron@Jun 13 2004, 05:04 PM
We need Lowe now more than ever, whether he tanks his next one or not. At least he&#39;s shown us that the good stuff is still there somewhere.
That&#39;s a scary thought, isnt it? Especially after what he&#39;s put us through this season. Relying on Lowe = not my favorite thing. [/b][/quote]
:o Relying on Lowe&#33; Let&#39;s just hope that it doesnt come to that, and if it does, that he&#39;ll come through when we really need him. The question is: how long will this upswing last?

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by TheFens@Jun 13 2004, 06:19 PM
:o Relying on Lowe&#33; Let&#39;s just hope that it doesnt come to that, and if it does, that he&#39;ll come through when we really need him. The question is: how long will this upswing last?
It already has come to that, due to Schilling&#39;s ankle. That&#39;s the scary part. If Lowe falters, we&#39;ll have to pray for BK Kim. After Kim, it&#39;s Frank Castillo. Getting the shakes yet?

[yeszir]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 13 2004, 07:52 PM
After Kim, it&#39;s Frank Castillo. Getting the shakes yet?
:o

[CalvnHobs6]

I think Williamson is a better alternative to Castillo. He used to start....and if he&#39;s anywhere near as dominating as a starter as he is a reliever, I&#39;d say that&#39;s a good alternative.

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by CalvnHobs6@Jun 13 2004, 09:09 PM
I think Williamson is a better alternative to Castillo. He used to start....and if he&#39;s anywhere near as dominating as a starter as he is a reliever, I&#39;d say that&#39;s a good alternative.
Maybe for next year, but while recovering from an elbow injury, I don&#39;t want to see him getting "stretched out" for a starting role. Particularly when we&#39;re already overusing Timlin and Embree to try to get to Foulke. We need Williamson right where he is.