RIP Willie Mays

[illinoisredsox]

Just saw that the Say Hey Kid died Tuesday at 93.

Obviously, he is among the very small group of men who are in the conversation as the best all-around player ever. I was fortunate enough to see him play with the Mets in one of his final seasons.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

In the past dozen years, three big leaguers have had single season WAR scores of 10 or higher: Trout twice, Betts and Judge, once each.

From 1954-1966, Willie Mays had six years at 10 WAR or higher. Mays led the majors in WAR 10 times in those 13 seasons, when he averaged 9.5 WAR.

He won two Most Valuable Player Awards, but could've won 10.

[notin]

Mays also holds the record (tied with Aaron and Musial) for most All Star games with 24…

[moonslav59]

By all accounts, he was a great guy.

He very easily can be considered the best "all around" player of alltime.

His defense was second to none, in his era. He won 10 straight GG and 11 total.

He had enough speed to lead the league 4 times in row in SBs. He ended his career with 339 of them. He also led the league in triples, 3 times.

With the bat, he rarely K'd more than 80 times a season and came pretty close to having more BBs (1468) than Ks (1526 in 12,545 PAs!) He led the league in BA, once and ended with a .301 BA and .384 OBP. Twice he led the league in OBP and 5 times in SLG.

His power was enormous. He led the league in HRs 4 times during an era with plenty of HR hitters.

He led the league in TBs, 3 times and OPS, 5 times, including once at age 34.

He was ROY and then spent almost 2 years in the military.
2 MVPs (12 times a top 6 MVP vote getter)
24 AS

He ended up with a .940 career OPS (155 OPS+) Papi retired at age 40 with a 141 OPS+ for some perspective.

From age 39-42, he still had an OPS of .846 (136 OPS+)

RIP Say Hey!

[mvp 78]

Greatest of All Time.

[dgalehouse]

How do they calculate WAR for these old time players ? Analytics were not in use. And there is limited film footage of the games. Do they just take the often mocked " baseball card stats " and convert them into a WAR figure? How ? As for the " Say Hey Kid" , I was lucky enough to see him play at the old Polo Grounds in New York. A real treat. R.I.P.

[Maxbialystock]

Greatest of All Time.

Yessir. He kind of said exactly that at his HOF ceremony, and I can remember thinking he was right.

moonslav's stats are why I agree with you. Plus the 1954 grab (and throw) in the WS first game in the Polo Grounds. That was also Willie's only WS win.

[Maxbialystock]

How do they calculate WAR for these old time players ? Analytics were not in use. And there is limited film footage of the games. Do they just take the often mocked " baseball card stats " and convert them into a WAR figure? How ? As for the " Say Hey Kid" , I was lucky enough to see him play at the old Polo Grounds in New York. A real treat. R.I.P.

Not that hard, I wouldn't think. They've got all the hitting stats, and his lifetime OPS was .940. As for the defense, you can pretty much give him a DWAR of 3 for most any season.

[dgalehouse]

Not that hard, I wouldn't think. They've got all the hitting stats, and his lifetime OPS was .940. As for the defense, you can pretty much give him a DWAR of 3 for most any season.

His career bWAR is 156.2 . How did they arrive at that number ? Do you know or not ?

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

How do they calculate WAR for these old time players ? Analytics were not in use. And there is limited film footage of the games. Do they just take the often mocked " baseball card stats " and convert them into a WAR figure? How ? As for the " Say Hey Kid" , I was lucky enough to see him play at the old Polo Grounds in New York. A real treat. R.I.P.

How do they calculate any WAR? Old-timers like me can't even fathom WAR formulas for current players.

(is that fathom or phatom -- as in phantom stats?)

Here's one I get: Mays hit a record 22 home runs in extra innings. If clutch is not repeatable, he was more repetitive than anyone else getting the boys home (or to an establishment) before Last Call...

[dgalehouse]

How do they calculate any WAR? Old-timers like me can't even fathom WAR formulas for current players.

(is that fathom or phatom -- as in phantom stats?)

Here's one I get: Mays hit a record 22 home runs in extra innings. If clutch is not repeatable, he was more repetitive than anyone else getting the boys home (or to an establishment) before Last Call...

Very few fans who like to quote WAR actually know the secret recipe. Like, how in the world did Joey B. get a 2.5 and Jimmy D. only got a 2.3 ? And here I thought Jimmy was having a better year. Just goes to show you how little we know.

[moonslav59]

Very few fans who like to quote WAR actually know the secret recipe. Like, how in the world did Joey B. get a 2.5 and Jimmy D. only got a 2.3 ? And here I thought Jimmy was having a better year. Just goes to show you how little we know.

All fans who criticise it no jack about it.

[Old Red]

All fans who criticise it no jack about it.

Nor want to.🤭🙈🤮

[dgalehouse]

All fans who criticise it no jack about it.

That's right. I had Mays figured for at least 159. Can't understand 156.2 Maybe they missed a couple of his circus catches.

[moonslav59]

That's right. I had Mays figured for at least 159. Can't understand 156.2 Maybe they missed a couple of his circus catches.

Only Ruth and the cheater Bonds has a high fWAR?

Do you think they got that wrong?

[cp176]

It might be repetitive but he was the best I ever saw.

[mvp 78]

Only Ruth and the cheater Bonds has a high fWAR?

Do you think they got that wrong?

Mays had skills that would transcend time. Ruth did not. Bonds was great before the cream and clear, but was not at the Mays level.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Mays had skills that would transcend time. Ruth did not. Bonds was great before the cream and clear, but was not at the Mays level.

Willie was so talented that he took regular infield practice at shortstop, where his manager said he'd be a starting All-Star if he ever had to move there.

Now, what other all-time great in the name of JOHN HENRY can anyone remember actually moving from the outfield to a middle infield position?

[Maxbialystock]

Willie was so talented that he took regular infield practice at shortstop, where his manager said he'd be a starting All-Star if he ever had to move there.

Now, what other all-time great in the name of JOHN HENRY can anyone remember actually moving from the outfield to a middle infield position?

Ease up on JH and/or his managers. In his reign the Sox have won 4 WS. In Willie's 22 seasons with the Giants, they won 1 WS. Kike had a terrific year in 2021 and was one of the big reasons the Sox made it to the postseason and then to the ALCS.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Ease up on JH and/or his managers. In his reign the Sox have won 4 WS. In Willie's 22 seasons with the Giants, they won 1 WS. Kike had a terrific year in 2021 and was one of the big reasons the Sox made it to the postseason and then to the ALCS.

You must have misread my post. I said all-time great -- like Marcus Betts -- who moved to the middle infield and still led his league in WAR...

... not grate, as in the kind of unpleasant rasping sound the crowd made whenever Kike Hernandez fielded a ball at shortstop for Boston.

[cp176]

Ease up on JH and/or his managers. In his reign the Sox have won 4 WS. In Willie's 22 seasons with the Giants, they won 1 WS. Kike had a terrific year in 2021 and was one of the big reasons the Sox made it to the postseason and then to the ALCS.

...win lose or whatever, regardless of anything JH has or has not done, Willie Mays was the best I ever saw.

[moonslav59]

...win lose or whatever, regardless of anything JH has or has not done, Willie Mays was the best I ever saw.

I only saw him on TV, when he was much older. It's hard to imagine anyone was better.