How have the Red Sox fared in past free agent bidding wars?

[Bellhorn04]

First of all I don't think there have been that many of them. Most of the ones I can think of were with the Yankees.

Bernie Williams
Mike Mussina
Jose Contreras
Mark Teixeira

Lost all those ones!

I'm leaving out Johnny Damon, I think the Sox kind of let the Yankees win that one.

Dice-K. They won that blind auction very boldly.

Jon Lester. Some say the Sox lost that one on purpose too.

What other bidding wars can anyone think of?

[moonslav59]

First of all I don't think there have been that many of them. Most of the ones I can think of were with the Yankees.

Bernie Williams
Mike Mussina
Jose Contreras
Mark Teixeira

Lost all those ones!

I'm leaving out Johnny Damon, I think the Sox kind of let the Yankees win that one.

Dice-K. They won that blind auction very boldly.

Jon Lester. Some say the Sox lost that one on purpose too.

What other bidding wars can anyone think of?

Was there a war on Manny?

Price? Lackey?

HRam?

I know SFG made an offer for Pabilto and were upset he took more from BOS.

We know there was not one on Yoshida.

[Bellhorn04]

Was there a war on Manny?

Price? Lackey?

HRam?

I know SFG made an offer for Pabilto and were upset he took more from BOS.

We know there was not one on Yoshida.

Probably have to count Sandoval as a "win" LOL

I'm sure there were other bidders on Manny but I don't remember any details. I believe Duquette pivoted to Manny after losing out on Mussina. That turned out just fine.

[Old Red]

Probably have to count Sandoval as a "win" LOL

I'm sure there were other bidders on Manny but I don't remember any details. I believe Duquette pivoted to Manny after losing out on Mussina. That turned out just fine.
How about Carl Crawford?

[Bellhorn04]

How about Carl Crawford?

Another "win". Though I don't recall who we were bidding against.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Just with the Yanks: Sox basically "let" Ellsbury go, with JBJ waiting to take over at minimum wage.

ARod wasn't a free agent, but when his Sox trade was voided by the league, NY pounced.

Also, in the not-a-big-leaguer division, Sox-Yanks were the two finalists for Moncada, the superduper overhyped amateur who actually helped Boston win its last ring, after being traded for Sale.

[Old Red]

The Yankees wanted Ellsbury awfully bad too that the Red Sox didn’t contest to much.

[moonslav59]

Many of our biggest contracts have been extensions. Here is a list of our biggest contracts- extensions and free agents:

Red= FA
314/10 Devers (12th highest contract in MLB history)
217/7 Price (25th in MLB)
160/8 Manny (55th not adjusted for inflation)
154/7 AGon (60)
145/5 Sale (64)
144/7 Crawford (68)
140/6 Story (71)
120/6 Bogaerts (94 w opt out taken)
110/5 JD (106)
110/8 Pedey II (106)
95/5 Pablito (135)
90/5 Yoshida (plus posting fee)
88/4 HRam
83/4 Porcello
83/5 Lackey
73/7 R Castillo
70/5 JD Drew
68/4 Beckett II
68/4 Nate
52/6 Dice-K (plus posting fee)
52/4 Ortiz
41/4 Youk
40/4 Renteria
40/4 Varitek
40/6 Pedey I
39/3 Victorino
38/3 Lowell
36/4 Lugo
32/2 Jansen
32/2 Napoli
31/4 Damon
30/3 Beckett I
30/4 Buchholz
30/5 Lester

[Deja Doh]

The Red Sox have been nothing short of a disaster in FA.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have been nothing short of a disaster in FA.

Out of all their top signings, I see 2 that worked well:
Manny
JD

Damon is way down on the list, but if you adjust for inflation, you could count him.

Lackey & JD Drew were okay to good.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Out of all their top signings, I see 2 that worked well:
Manny
JD

Damon is way down on the list, but if you adjust for inflation, you could count him.

Lackey & JD Drew were okay to good.

Lackey was only ok for the Red Sox in the same way Price was -- each had one good October that helped win rings. Both were also sent packing before the ends of their overpaid contracts in Bean Counter Town...

Overall, Lackey was a disappointment in Boston, because he was terrible in 2011 and missed the entire 2012 season due to injury, triggering an agreed-upon clause for him to play an additional season at league minimum (a drama which the Sox avoided by trading him to the Cardinals, who restructured the wording so he could earn five times that amount in '15).

Lackey and Price were never fan favorites in New England, partly because they were sour to the media -- even Eck! -- a bad look for mercenaries who only sign with the club that offers the most money. They were reportedly liked by teammates, though, and contributed to banners... which are worth it to some at any cost.

All told, the Sox inked the Lackey-Price tandem for over $300 Million... back in the day when the front office was not at Full Waddle.

[notin]

Lackey was only ok for the Red Sox in the same way Price was -- each had one good October that helped win rings. Both were also sent packing before the ends of their overpaid contracts in Bean Counter Town...

Overall, Lackey was a disappointment in Boston, because he was terrible in 2011 and missed the entire 2012 season due to injury, triggering an agreed-upon clause for him to play an additional season at league minimum (a drama which the Sox avoided by trading him to the Cardinals, who restructured the wording so he could earn five times that amount in '15).

Lackey and Price were never fan favorites in New England, partly because they were sour to the media -- even Eck! -- a bad look for mercenaries who only sign with the club that offers the most money. They were reportedly liked by teammates, though, and contributed to banners... which are worth it to some at any cost.

All told, the Sox inked the Lackey-Price tandem for over $300 Million... back in the day when the front office was not at Full Waddle.

Again, drama totally fabricated by a “desperate for attention” (and potentially illiterate) Tony Massarotti. Lackey never said he wouldn’t honor the deal and in fact said the opposite.

[moonslav59]

Lackey was only ok for the Red Sox in the same way Price was -- each had one good October that helped win rings. Both were also sent packing before the ends of their overpaid contracts in Bean Counter Town...

Overall, Lackey was a disappointment in Boston, because he was terrible in 2011 and missed the entire 2012 season due to injury, triggering an agreed-upon clause for him to play an additional season at league minimum (a drama which the Sox avoided by trading him to the Cardinals, who restructured the wording so he could earn five times that amount in '15).

Lackey and Price were never fan favorites in New England, partly because they were sour to the media -- even Eck! -- a bad look for mercenaries who only sign with the club that offers the most money. They were reportedly liked by teammates, though, and contributed to banners... which are worth it to some at any cost.

All told, the Sox inked the Lackey-Price tandem for over $300 Million... back in the day when the front office was not at Full Waddle.

I don't disagree, but both gave us more than just one good October:

Lackey
3.52 (189 IP) in '13
3.82 (198) in '14 (3.60 w BOS in 137 IP before the trade)
Had we gotten a better return for him, it would not have looked so bad.

Price:
Led the league in GS (35) and 230 IP his first year ('16) 3.99
3.38 in 75 IP in '17 hurt
3.58 in 176 in '18 helped us have the greatest season in Sox history, by the numbers.

Yes, both were disappointments, but we could sure use some numbers like these, now. (Just not at that price.)

[moonslav59]

Again, drama totally fabricated by a “desperate for attention” (and potentially illiterate) Tony Massarotti. Lackey never said he wouldn’t honor the deal and in fact said the opposite.

Also, I thought he ended up playing for the minimum w STL that final year, didn't he?

[notin]

Also, I thought he ended up playing for the minimum w STL that final year, didn't he?

He publicly said he would. I assume he did.

There may have been some incentive clauses in that deal that he reached as well.

I’d be hard pressed to believe Lackey signed that deal and then had a hissy fit because he had to live up to it. Of course I don’t have a job where any drama I create increases my readership…

[Bellhorn04]

Manny Ramirez OTOH had a bit of a hissy fit when he found out about the two team options in his contract, as I recall...

[moonslav59]

He publicly said he would. I assume he did.

There may have been some incentive clauses in that deal that he reached as well.

I’d be hard pressed to believe Lackey signed that deal and then had a hissy fit because he had to live up to it. Of course I don’t have a job where any drama I create increases my readership…

B-R shows he made $507K in his final year in STL.

[Randy Red Sox]

the two worst FA signings by FAR were Carl Crawford and Kung Poo Panda

[moonslav59]

Manny Ramirez OTOH had a bit of a hissy fit when he found out about the two team options in his contract, as I recall...

That did not end well, but the beginning and middle more than made up for the end.

Plus, we got JBay for one year. We then got Workman with JBay's comp pick and Pivetta in a trade for Workman. We are still seeing results from that trade, today!

[moonslav59]

the two worst FA signings by FAR were Carl Crawford and Kung Poo Panda

We were lucky to dump CC, but we had to give up AGon & Beckett to do it.

Not like losing Betts with Price, but still...

[Bellhorn04]

That did not end well, but the beginning and middle more than made up for the end.

Plus, we got JBay for one year. We then got Workman with JBay's comp pick and Pivetta in a trade for Workman. We are still seeing results from that trade, today!

Now that's good stuff. :cool:

[notin]

That did not end well, but the beginning and middle more than made up for the end.

Plus, we got JBay for one year. We then got Workman with JBay's comp pick and Pivetta in a trade for Workman. We are still seeing results from that trade, today!

I think Workman was a straight up second round pick. Wasn’t Anthony Ranaudo the comp for losing Bay?

[moonslav59]

I think Workman was a straight up second round pick. Wasn’t Anthony Ranaudo the comp for losing Bay?

Soxprospects says:
for JBay
36. Brentz
57. Workman

for Wagner
20, Vitek
39. Ranaudo

[moonslav59]

Now that's good stuff. :cool:

That butterfly flapped its wings, so long ago.

[sk7326]

The only thing I'll offer is most autopsies of free agent shopping will look like this ... it's a sucker's game often, but it's also what we have

[notin]

Soxprospects says:
for JBay
36. Brentz
57. Workman

for Wagner
20, Vitek
39. Ranaudo


Ok

I think more shocked I remember Ranaudo existed…

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

The only thing I'll offer is most autopsies of free agent shopping will look like this ... it's a sucker's game often, but it's also what we have

"Whew, glad we dodged that trauma," said the Red Sox team doctor... after learning that Mets' new pitcher Yo Yama blew out his elbow from overuse trying to pronate the bigger MLB baseballs.

[moonslav59]

Ok

I think more shocked I remember Ranaudo existed…

Those days of comp picks really helped the Sox, when it was designed to try to help the poor team's losing free agents for nothing.

2005
23. Ellsbury & 45. Lowrie (trade for Melancon who was traded for Holt) for OCab (Nomar trade) See what we got for Jake, later.
42. Buchholz & 57. Egan for Pedro

2006
28. Bard & 40. K Johnson for Damon
44. C Clay & 83. A Bates for Mueller

2007
55. Hagadone (included in trade for VMart) for Gonzo
62. R Dent for Foulke

2008
45. Bryan Price for Gagne

2010
20. Vitek & 39, Ranaudo (traded for R Ross) for Wagner
36. Brentz & 57. Workman (later traded for Pivetta) for J Bay

2011
19. Barnes & 36 Owens for VMart
26. Swihart & 40. JBJ (kinda soften the blow a bit) for Beltre

2012
31. B Johnson & 37. Light (traded for Abad) for Pablebon

2014
33. Kopech (part of Sale trade) for Ellsbury

Some of those picks are still affecting the team, now.

It's amazing how well we did with these picks, most between 20-50th.

[Dipre]

The only thing I'll offer is most autopsies of free agent shopping will look like this ... it's a sucker's game often, but it's also what we have

Came here to say this.

[mvp 78]

We were lucky to dump CC, but we had to give up AGon & Beckett to do it.

Not like losing Betts with Price, but still...

Beckett's career basically ended after leaving the Sox do to injury.

[moonslav59]

Beckett's career basically ended after leaving the Sox do to injury.

Yes, but at the time, he was still viewed as a big plus, at the time of the trade.

BTW, AGon declined after the trade, too.

.888 OPS w SDP
.895 OPS w BOS
.793 OPS w LAD, but .817 his first full 3 years there.

[mvp 78]

Yes, but at the time, he was still viewed as a big plus, at the time of the trade.

BTW, AGon declined after the trade, too.

.888 OPS w SDP
.895 OPS w BOS
.793 OPS w LAD, but .817 his first full 3 years there.

AGon's first 3 years were ok (wRC+ 124, 129, 129), but he really fell off.

[moonslav59]

AGon's first 3 years were ok (wRC+ 124, 129, 129), but he really fell off.

Yes, still okay, but almost as big a drop from SDP/BOS as from year 3 to 4:

wRC+
156 SDP '09
142 SDP '10
155 BOS '11
(116 BOS/LAD '12)
124 LAD '13
129 LAD '14
129 LAD '15
111 LAD '16

The drop from '15 to '16 was 18 points.
The drop from '11 to '13 was 21 points.

He was still a good player for 3-4 years with LA, but he was not great and did not earn that salary, IMO.

When you consider the salary LA took on with AGon, CC and Beckett, minus the small payments we made to them, they got hosed.

[notin]

Yes, still okay, but almost as big a drop from SDP/BOS as from year 3 to 4:

wRC+
156 SDP '09
142 SDP '10
155 BOS '11
(116 BOS/LAD '12)
124 LAD '13
129 LAD '14
129 LAD '15
111 LAD '16

The drop from '15 to '16 was 18 points.
The drop from '11 to '13 was 21 points.

He was still a good player for 3-4 years with LA, but he was not great and did not earn that salary, IMO.

When you consider the salary LA took on with AGon, CC and Beckett, minus the small payments we made to them, they got hosed.


At what point do we factor in that the best player the Sox got in return was James Loney?

[Bellhorn04]

At what point do we factor in that the best player the Sox got in return was James Loney?

They also got Jerry Sands, who was part of the trade for Brock Holt.

The best player they got was Benny Franklin, of course.

[mvp 78]

They also got Jerry Sands, who was part of the trade for Brock Holt.

The best player they got was Benny Franklin, of course.

If we look at years of control at the time of the trade, it would be Rubby De La Rosa. Loney was good the following season, but his contract was up after 2012.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

They also got Jerry Sands, who was part of the trade for Brock Holt.

The best player they got was Benny Franklin, of course.

... who led to the career year of Benny Cherington.

Ah, yes -- Benji... the mastermind behind the if-everything-breaks-just-right '13 Sox.

Definitely more of a factor than Loney Tones and Jerry Sands Talent.

[moonslav59]

At what point do we factor in that the best player the Sox got in return was James Loney?

The salary relief was tge big return:
Cuc
Napoli
Dempster

[Bellhorn04]

I think we can now safely say that the Sox were not really involved in the bidding war for Moto.

All those optimistic statements about us outbidding the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers?

Sorry folks, this ownership just isn't thinking like that any more.

[moonslav59]

I think we can now safely say that the Sox were not really involved in the bidding war for Moto.

All those optimistic statements about us outbidding the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers?

Sorry folks, this ownership just isn't thinking like that any more.

A little more than the "Price signing?"

Is that some sort of sick joke?

It's not even a half-hearted attempt at placating the fanbase. That sort of leak just fans the flames of discontent and exposes the fact that these guys are 8 years behind the times.

[Dipre]

I think we can now safely say that the Sox were not really involved in the bidding war for Moto.

All those optimistic statements about us outbidding the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers?

Sorry folks, this ownership just isn't thinking like that any more.

Your mind reading abilities are pretty amazing.

[Bellhorn04]

Your mind reading abilities are pretty amazing.

How am I mind reading? You thought the Sox were going all in on Moto. Isn't it pretty obvious they were not players at all?

[mvp 78]

Your mind reading abilities are pretty amazing.

They need to actually start proving the doubters wrong at some point.

[Dipre]

How am I mind reading? You thought the Sox were going all in on Moto. Isn't it pretty obvious they were not players at all?

I'm just fucking with you.

[Dipre]

They need to actually start proving the doubters wrong at some point.

I don't think they will until this situation absolutely blows up in their face. It's the dominican way actually, don't fix it until it becomes a problem you can no longer ignore.

[mvp 78]

I don't think they will until this situation absolutely blows up in their face. It's the dominican way actually, don't fix it until it becomes a problem you can no longer ignore.

I think they are getting close to stumbling into a roaring fire. They generated a lot of goodwill, but really have a had some bad looks the past few years. I think Sox fans still want their owners to show them that they care as much as the fans do.