9/5/23 Red Sox continue with Rays in Tropicana , 6:40 EDT

[vegasbob]

Coming off a 13 game negative streak breakup at the Trop, in come from behind fashion, the Sox send Kutter Crawford out to sting the Rays.

Interesting matchup vs Zach Eflin ( 13-8; 3.40 ERA; 1.02 WHIP). Eflin was one of the possible acquisitions over the winter that Chaim and Co. "just" missed. We got Corey Kluber instead, late in the game

Sox broke out the bats in the first of this series with Casas and Yoshi homering, and the pitchers combined for 8 shutout innings after a weak 1st. Even Kenley pitched well on a back to back .

Sox are winning at .750 clip in September. You would like to think it will be the start of a miracle finish run to the WC#3 slot. Maybe .

[dgalehouse]

The Rays are at their most vulnerable point. Not the same team that started back in April. Time to take advantage.

[Maxbialystock]

The Rays are at their most vulnerable point. Not the same team that started back in April. Time to take advantage.

Good point because I remember how good they were in April.

Yesterday was a huge surprise, especially after the Rays scored 3 in the 1st and their starter just mowed down the Sox lineup with K after K.

[moonslav59]

Good point because I remember how good they were in April.

Yesterday was a huge surprise, especially after the Rays scored 3 in the 1st and their starter just mowed down the Sox lineup with K after K.

Maybe this is payback for us facing PIT when they were on fire.

[Maxbialystock]

Maybe this is payback for us facing PIT when they were on fire.

I'm not yet ready to include the cosmos into my thinking.

[moonslav59]

I'm not yet ready to include the cosmos into my thinking.

It was not the cosmos: it was a butterfly in Michoacan.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Maybe this is payback for us facing PIT when they were on fire.

Timing is everything in a 162 game season. You're gonna run into eventual bad teams at the wrong time. Otoh, you can also run into good teams when they're not playing at their normal level. In a perfect season these two things even out, but usually not.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Timing is everything in a 162 game season. You're gonna run into eventual bad teams at the wrong time. Otoh, you can also run into good teams when they're not playing at their normal level. In a perfect season these two things even out, but usually not.

Actually, the SOX are a perfect example of a hot and cold team where an opposition team could easily play against at the right or wrong time.

[vegasbob]

Throw the pitch at Dever's eye level and he will be sitting down. Can't resist it and can't hit it. Sort of like Story on low sweepers away

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Looks like the league has discovered Devers has problems with high in the zone fast balls. Not sure Devers was aware where the pitch was becuase it appeared his eyes were closed.

[illinoisredsox]

Looks like the league has discovered Devers has problems with high in the zone fast balls. Not sure Devers was aware where the pitch was becuase it appeared his eyes were closed.

Yep, especially with 2 strikes.

Until he adjusts, it will stay that way. And he is very slow to adjust.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

SOX really don't need Story.

[illinoisredsox]

SOX really don't need Story.

At least this time the pitcher pitched around it on only 4 pitches. We’ve seen far too many times where it takes 10 or 15 to get out of it.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

No damage except for the extra pitch count.

[illinoisredsox]

Coming off a 13 game negative streak breakup at the Trop, in come from behind fashion, the Sox send Kutter Crawford out to sting the Rays.

Interesting matchup vs Zach Eflin ( 13-8; 3.40 ERA; 1.02 WHIP). Eflin was one of the possible acquisitions over the winter that Chaim and Co. "just" missed. We got Corey Kluber instead, late in the game

Sox broke out the bats in the first of this series with Casas and Yoshi homering, and the pitchers combined for 8 shutout innings after a weak 1st. Even Kenley pitched well on a back to back .

Sox are winning at .750 clip in September. You would like to think it will be the start of a miracle finish run to the WC#3 slot. Maybe .

Biggest problem is they have to pass 2 teams. That’s the toughest part. It helps that the Rangers and Astros have to play each other, but that may only get them past one of them. Jays have an easy schedule on paper.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I don't blame the Rays being careful with Casas.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Damn you Cash for putting a different CF in the game.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Casas showing some leather out there.

[vegasbob]

Casas already better on defense !

[illinoisredsox]

The discussion on the Rays pitching philosophy is interesting. Go as hard as you can as long as you can, and that might get you a deal somewhere else. Seems like a lot of those guys end up hurt.

If I’m a GM, I’d be very reluctant to sign any pitcher who has spent much time in Tampa.

[vegasbob]

There is the problem with 2 guys in the OF, neither of whom is especially conversant in English. Abreu needed to take command as the CF'er. He looked at Yoshi pulling up and overran the ball. Again, as Moon says, it's not necessarily actual ruled errors, it is plays not made. It is also the problem with 2 out ( or any out) walks).

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The discussion on the Rays pitching philosophy is interesting. Go as hard as you can as long as you can, and that might get you a deal somewhere else. Seems like a lot of those guys end up hurt.

If I’m a GM, I’d be very reluctant to sign any pitcher who has spent much time in Tampa.

Well, the SOX signed Price and that wasn't much bang for the buck.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

There is the problem with 2 guys in the OF, neither of whom is especially conversant in English. Abreu needed to take command as the CF'er. He looked at Yoshi pulling up and overran the ball. Again, as Moon says, it's not necessarily actual ruled errors, it is plays not made. It is also the problem with 2 out ( or any out walks).

Abreu in CF and Rafaela at SS and all Kutter can think is "thank you, Cora."

[jung]

There is the problem with 2 guys in the OF, neither of whom is especially conversant in English. Abreu needed to take command as the CF'er. He looked at Yoshi pulling up and overran the ball. Again, as Moon says, it's not necessarily actual ruled errors, it is plays not made. It is also the problem with 2 out ( or any out) walks).


Sigh....is Abreu really a CFer? Is Yoshi really any sort of OFer?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3-0. The SOX have the Rays right where they want them.

[redsoxrules]

And some people on here says defense doesn't matter. That's 3 runs right there because of the defense

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Sigh....is Abreu really a CFer? Is Yoshi really any sort of OFer?

Is Cora really a manager?

[vegasbob]

The inning goes on with still 2 outs (made) . HR by the #9 hitter

Crawford's pitch count is well above a 100 pitch/5 inning projection. Just keep making the BP bleed. Then Crawford walks another one

[moonslav59]

And some people on here says defense doesn't matter. That's 3 runs right there because of the defense

A perfect example, and no error charged!

Yet, the gloss overs continue.

[jung]

The inning goes on with still 2 outs (made) . HR by the #9 hitter

Crawford's pitch count is well above a 100 pitch/5 inning projection. Just keep making the BP bleed. Then Crawford walks another one

57 pitches and not out of the second inning!!! Good night Irene

Make that 58

[illinoisredsox]

And some people on here says defense doesn't matter. That's 3 runs right there because of the defense

True, but too many Sox pitchers seem to fall apart when things go a bit awry as well. They’ve got to be mentally tougher. Kutter’s making horrible pitches all inning.

[vegasbob]

That was 18 pitches after the 3rd out should have been made on a reasonably routine run/catch , not even at the warning track. I know the roof visibility in the Trop, especially in daylight is not good but Abreu had to get that ball.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Is Cora really a manager?

My apologies. Cora would make one hell of a manager at a Day Care Center.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Viva Valdez!

[vegasbob]

Big hit by Valdez helps.

[illinoisredsox]

That was 18 pitches after the 3rd out should have been made on a reasonably routine run/catch , not even at the warning track. I know the roof visibility in the Trop, especially in daylight is not good but Abreu had to get that ball.

Agreed, but I’ll cut the kid a small break on his first series at the Trop; last night the only chance he had all night was a line drive to end the game.

[vegasbob]

Masa makes a play or did he? Looked like a clean catch on the first replay

[redsoxrules]

Masa makes a play or did he? Looked like a clean catch on the first replay

Doesn't look like a catch to me but not sure if enough to over turn it

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Either way it was still a nice catch.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Either way it was still a nice catch.

It wasn't a circus catch even though the game is being played in a circus tent.

[jung]

Doesn't look like a catch to me but not sure if enough to over turn it

Cash waited too long to challenge. Figures....even when Yoshi makes a good catch....its not a catch.

Maybe just maybe if the Sox buy a rack and stretch Yoshi out....he might at least be a LFer. Nahhhhhh

We have enough DH's on this team to choke a mule.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Cash waited too long to challenge. Figures....even when Yoshi makes a good catch....its not a catch.

Maybe just maybe if the Sox buy a rack and stretch Yoshi out....he might at least be a LFer. Nahhhhhh

We have enough DH's on this team to choke a mule.

The batter was called out so I guess it really was a catch. You shouldn't pick on people who are vertically challenged.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Another f'ing chUMP who deserves a foul tip to the mask.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Wasn't that special?

[vegasbob]

Jacques comes into Crawford's mess and immediately screws up vs a LH'er. The hitters need to come around for Boston

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

And the hits keep on cummin.

[vegasbob]

2 HBP's with bases loaded ?? Keeps the line moving, nice work. When playing bullpen roulette , Cora's odds are less than 50-50

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

2 HBP's with bases loaded ?? Keeps the line moving, nice work. When playing bullpen roulette , Cora's odds are less than 50-50

Pardon my French, but F Cora.

[jung]

The batter was called out so I guess it really was a catch. You shouldn't pick on people who are vertically challenged.

I have empathy for people that are vertically challenged. Its not Yoshi's fault that he is in our OF.

[notin]

I have empathy for people that are vertically challenged. Its not Yoshi's fault that he is in our OF.

Sure it is. Unless you think the Yakuza put a gun to his head when the offer was made…

[jung]

Pardon my French, but F Cora.

If you want to consider pitching a component of run prevention....hence defense......all in we are like a Hockey team playing without a goalie.

"Gee Bob I don't know how that shot got to the back of the net. Did that go through the 5 hole?"

"I don't know John. There is no goalie out there. So its all holes."

I did say way early this year that it will take MLB a couple years at least to adjust to not being able to rely on the shift to cover for bad fielders. Will take a few draft sessions at least to get more athletic defenders out there in the field. That said at some point here there is going to be a Pitcher revolt based on this everything is a hit nonsense.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Tropicana Field isn't only a disgrace to MLB; it's also a disgrace to architecture.

[notin]

Joe Jacques will be right next to Mauricio Llovera on the Players I Will Never Miss List…

[jung]

Sure it is. Unless you think the Yakuza put a gun to his head when the offer was made…

Its the Sox fault and its the nerds fault. "defense does not matter....we got this little guy we think can hit and we don't give a fuck if he can field or not"

Are you going to blame Yoshi for taking the money? Thats white of you.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Its the Sox fault and its the nerds fault. "defense does not matter....we got this little guy we think can hit and we don't give a fuck if he can field or not"

Are you going to blame Yoshi for taking the money? Thats white of you.

If you think Masa's vertically challenged defense is the big problem with the SOX, you haven't been paying attention.

[jung]

Tropicana Field isn't only a disgrace to MLB; it's also a disgrace to architecture.

Its not like we have torn up the Rays playing in Fenway.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Its the Sox fault and its the nerds fault. "defense does not matter....we got this little guy we think can hit and we don't give a fuck if he can field or not"

Are you going to blame Yoshi for taking the money? Thats white of you.

The SOX FO just paid a guy over 300 mil with that exact same thought.

[jung]

If you think Masa's vertically challenged defense is the big problem with the SOX, you haven't been paying attention.

Defense generally is a problem. Anything not hit to Verdugo or Story is an adventure.

And the pitching another component of run prevention is a huge problem. I would assert that Bloom is more responsible for both than Cora though I am not exactly a Cora devotee. I would likely toss both of them and start over.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Its not like we have torn up the Rays playing in Fenway.

Where did that come from? I was speaking about the mausoleum with a circus tent inside. What has that got to do with the SOX?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Defense generally is a problem. Anything not hit to Verdugo or Story is an adventure.

And the pitching another component of run prevention is a huge problem. I would assert that Bloom is more responsible for both than Cora though I am not exactly a Cora devotee. I would likely toss both of them and start over.




We can agree on that.

[jung]

Seem like the should have thought of him in terms of DH then. Whoops they have a DH....a few of them actually.

What they paid for Yoshi sounds like the 2023 version of the Castillo contract. How did that work out.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

We can agree on that.


There was a rumor with very little smoke that the SOX were looking to sign Theo as CBO. Even Brewers ex-GM Stern was mentioned.

[jung]

Where did that come from? I was speaking about the mausoleum with a circus tent inside. What has that got to do with the SOX?

Actually I have had all I can stand of OB and whomever is the analyst constantly chattering about the Trop while the team that calls it home is kicking our ass regularly.

Someday I think the Rays will be playing elsewhere. But OB's juvenile shit about the Trop gets under my skin. So I admit to being a bit sensitive on the topic.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Seem like the should have thought of him in terms of DH then. Whoops they have a DH....a few of them actually.

What they paid for Yoshi sounds like the 2023 version of the Castillo contract. How did that work out.

So you're throwing Masa's complete season, so far, into the toilet. I don't really understand the Castillo comparison.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Actually I have had all I can stand of OB and whomever is the analyst constantly chattering about the Trop while the team that calls it home is kicking our ass regularly.

Someday I think the Rays will be playing elsewhere. But OB's juvenile shit about the Trop gets under my skin. So I admit to being a bit sensitive on the topic.


It's a shit ballpark. Enough said.

[vegasbob]

Mr. 3-2 count takes the walk. With guys on 2nd/3rd no outs, I would rather Casas hits the ball somewhere. Duvall now needs to come through

[redsoxrules]

That was right down the pipe for Duval

[vegasbob]

WTF was Duvall expecting ? That was very poor

[vegasbob]

Now Mr. GIDP needs to hit something other than a weak grounder. Still gagging over Duvall's crap

Now gagging on Yoshi's reluctance to swing in a key situation. These guys are mindless

[redsoxrules]

Well at least that wasn't a GIDP

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Well at least that wasn't a GIDP

It wasn't a strike either, but this chUMP eats shit.

[redsoxrules]

It wasn't a strike either.

It was a strike. It caught the edge

[jad]

So you're throwing Masa's complete season, so far, into the toilet. I don't really understand the Castillo comparison.

How many times did Rusney hit .300?

[redsoxrules]

What a wasted opportunity

[moonslav59]

This is sooooo 2023 Soxish.

[jgar658]

On a different note. My wife wants to know. How come The fingernails of Casas are black?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yesterday it was posted that the Rays do four things better than the SOX. Pitching, timely hitting, defense and base running. There is a 5th thing. They have a better manager.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

On a different note. My wife wants to know. How come The fingernails of Casas are black?

So the infielders can read the sign when they throw the ball to 1st.

[jung]

It's a shit ballpark. Enough said.

Its a Ballpark that was going to be the Rays home as an MLB franchise. The league owners vote new franchises into their little club. The vote tally for the Tampa franchise was 28-0 as it was for the Diamondbacks that year. So the Red Sox voted this team in with this ballpark. OB works for NESN which is owned by Fenway Group which owns the Red Sox. So for my money OB should just shut his snickering, juvenile horse shit mouth about it. Write a letter to his bosses if he wishes.

In fact, if I had my way I would run Bloom, Cora and OB out of town on a rail.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Dave Bush weighed 250 pounds before the season started.

[vegasbob]

Winck at 26 pitches , after Paredes wears him out. Relievers without an out pitch are destined for long AB's

[jung]

So you're throwing Masa's complete season, so far, into the toilet. I don't really understand the Castillo comparison.

No I am saying that IMO Yoshi will never be a competent ML OFer and they have signed him at a point in time when the league's teams really are going to be forced to draft and field more well rounded players by virtue of the end of the shift in MLB. So maybe his salary for a DH is fine. I am just not kidding myself that he will ever be a competent ML OFer. Maybe they can hide him in LF...maybe not.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Its a Ballpark that was going to be the Rays home as an MLB franchise. The league owners vote new franchises into their little club. The vote tally for the Tampa franchise was 28-0 as it was for the Diamondbacks that year. So the Red Sox voted this team in with this ballpark. OB works for NESN which is owned by Fenway Group which owns the Red Sox. So for my money OB should just shut his snickering, juvenile horse shit mouth about it. Write a letter to his bosses if he wishes.

In fact, if I had my way I would run Bloom, Cora and OB out of town on a rail.

I'm getting the Tampa feed. Is Youk and/or Wake working the booth tonight?

[vegasbob]

So how many opportunities to be winning this game have the Sox coughed up ? Crawford not really sharp today; Abreu's misplay making it worse; 2 out walks followed by a HR to the #9 hitter; Jacques allow 2 scores by HBP;; 2nd/3rd 0 outs, then bases loaded and follow up with 2 K's and a pop fly; 2 errors in the field Still 3 innings to go

[jung]

MLB defense is laughably bad....just awful across MLB. They are even trying to hide it and they can't hide it.

[jung]

I'm getting the Tampa feed. Is Youk and/or Wake working the booth tonight?

Neither, its Middlebrooks

Give me Papelbon in the booth....PLEASE God give me Paps. Never going to happen though.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

This f'ing chUMP would be more suited for frisking the batters to make sure they're not carrying a gun.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Neither, its Middlebrooks

Give me Papelbon in the booth....PLEASE God give me Paps. Never going to happen though.

No one in any MLB booth is worse than Youk and Wake.

[jung]

Hysterical ....just hysterical. Rays SS actually moved over so he could take that JT hit off to the side. He WAS in front of it before he moved. Yeah, that worked.

Comment from the Sox booth. "That was a shot"

[vegasbob]

Gee whiz, Turner now equals Devers as Sox RBI leader . Raffy has not had a HR since August 20, I think

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Did the SOX and Rays switch uniforms?

[jung]

Aha....aha.....ah....ah....ahahahahaha

Dead ML ballplayers not just turning in their graves. Their coffins with them inside are shooting off into outer space, right out of the ground.....BLAST OFF!!!!

[vegasbob]

What is all this BS about defensive ineptitude ?

[redsoxrules]

How is that called a hit? That's an error

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Gee whiz, Turner now equals Devers as Sox RBI leader . Raffy has not had a HR since August 20, I think

It seems much further away than that.

[vegasbob]

Duvall with 3 K's and a foul out leaves 6 on base by himself.

[jung]

How is that called a hit? That's an error

Which one, the JT "shot" or that mess in shallow LF. Both were errors in my book. 2023 MLB....not so much.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

What is all this BS about defensive ineptitude ?

Official scoring this season has really sucked. I guess they're using minor league standards.

[jgar658]

Should Story sit while Rafaela plays SS?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Duvall with 3 K's and a foul out leaves 6 on base by himself.

Well, he is known as a streak hitter. It had to end eventually.

[vegasbob]

In all seriousness the Sox should be winning this game about 6-2 , and should do whatever it takes to win this one. Take the series , it's being offered to you guys

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Should Story sit while Rafaela plays SS?

No, but when Cora rests a player, ......... winning the game is secondary.

[vegasbob]

Brennan Bernadino was maybe the best dumpster find of the year. Pretty consistent

[notin]

Duvall with 3 K's and a foul out leaves 6 on base by himself.

Duvall has 10 HRs and a .999 OPS since August 1. I can cut him one bad night. If not for his recent hot streak, this game might not even matter…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

In all seriousness the Sox should be winning this game about 6-2 , and should do whatever it takes to win this one. Take the series , it's being offered to you guys

I guarantee the SOX win tonight, in spite of....

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Duvall has 10 HRs and a .999 OPS since August 1. I can cut him one bad night. If not for his recent hot streak, this game might not even matter…

This is 100% true.

[vegasbob]

Duvall has 10 HRs and a .999 OPS since August 1. I can cut him one bad night. If not for his recent hot streak, this game might not even matter…

Just goes to show the "clutch" concept is a non-starter in terms of repeatability

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just goes to show the "clutch" concept is a non-starter in terms of repeatability

So I should just drop the nickname 'Clutch' that I gave Devers?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just goes to show the "clutch" concept is a non-starter in terms of repeatability

Big Papi was definitely the closest to the repeatable concept of 'clutch' that I've ever seen.

[vegasbob]

So I should drop the nickname 'Clutch' that I gave Devers?

I'd go with Dutch Devers , clutch is just a woman's stylish evening purse

[moonslav59]

MLB defense is laughably bad....just awful across MLB. They are even trying to hide it and they can't hide it.

The whole idea that 98% of playable hits are turned into outs is hilarious.

[redsoxrules]

Which one, the JT "shot" or that mess in shallow LF. Both were errors in my book. 2023 MLB....not so much.

Casas pop up. It hit the glove, that's an error 100 percent

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Jansen is probably(definitely?) not available tonight.

[moonslav59]

I'd go with Dutch Devers , clutch is just a woman's stylish evening purse

Like the one Jeter used to carry to 1B with him?

http://www.mrdestructo.com/2009/02/barry-bonds-alex-rodriguez-and.html

[moonslav59]

Casas pop up. It hit the glove, that's an error 100 percent

Not anymore.

It's sick.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Like the one Jeter used to carry to 1B with him?

http://www.mrdestructo.com/2009/02/barry-bonds-alex-rodriguez-and.html

You meant A-roid.

[vegasbob]

You meant A-roid.

The mere thought of both Arod and Jeter in the same moment causes heart palpitations.

[Jasonbay44]

Rays are playing like idiots tonight. Very uncharacteristic

[moonslav59]

MASA for GG!

[redsoxrules]

Tampa playing like the Red Sox this game lol

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The mere thought of both Arod and Jeter in the same moment causes heart palpitations.


Hard not to love them both.

[vegasbob]

Yoshi's catch was a rerun of Benintendi, plus Yoshida saw the DP right in front of him

[moonslav59]

Tampa playing like the Red Sox this game lol

Apparently, the league is watered down, but the rest of us are slow to realize it.

[vegasbob]

C'mon guys, win the game now , no extra innings . Pitching is thin

[notin]

Just goes to show the "clutch" concept is a non-starter in terms of repeatability

“Clutch” and hit streaks are very different. Very, very different…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Apparently, the league is watered down, but the rest of us are slow to realize it.

But it's a faster watered-down game now.

[vegasbob]

Welcome to MLB pitching, Rafaela

[illinoisredsox]

Which one, the JT "shot" or that mess in shallow LF. Both were errors in my book. 2023 MLB....not so much.

You have become insufferable.

Turner’s ball was hit hard. It was also a play that should have been made. Two things can be true at the same time.

[moonslav59]

JT did NOT have to prove is not a skill.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Many batters, it seems, have a pitch location outside the strike zone they can't help swinging at. For JT it appears to be that up and in pitch.

[illinoisredsox]

Just goes to show the "clutch" concept is a non-starter in terms of repeatability

“Clutch” exists to the extent that in a big situation, some players are able to relax and do what they normally do. A “clutch” .300 hitter will hit around .300 in those situations. A .250 hitter will hit around .250.

I firmly believe “non-clutch” also exists. Those are the guys who tense up and are not able to do what they normally do.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

“Clutch” exists to the extent that in a big situation, some players are able to relax and do what they normally do. A “clutch” .300 hitter will hit around .300 in those situations. A .250 hitter will hit around .250.

I firmly believe “non-clutch” also exists. Those are the guys who tense up and are not able to do what they normally do.

Instead of 'clutch' I prefer 'timely hitting.' Timely hitting is more of a team concept and something the SOX have not been very good at this season.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Damn. I was hoping that high fly ball woud hit off the trapeze.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

A pinch-runner for Casas may have provided a runner at 3rd, but Cora's the manager.

[redsoxrules]

This ump is brutal

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Instead of 'clutch' I prefer 'timely hitting.' Timely hitting is more of a team concept and something the SOX have not been very good at this season.

A perfect example in the 10th. And so many other examples in extra innings this season.

[illinoisredsox]

Instead of 'clutch' I prefer 'timely hitting.' Timely hitting is more of a team concept and something the SOX have not been very good at this season.

I don’t know about timely hitting, but that described the 10th perfectly

[redsoxrules]

Omf this defense. It's non stop

[illinoisredsox]

Omf this defense. It's non stop

That’s on Casas. Urias had no chance to get there from where they had him playing.

Now why he was playing there is a different discussion.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I guarantee the SOX win tonight, in spite of....

My guarantees aren't guaranteed.

[d-money]

This team stopped hitting. Game’s about to be over.

[d-money]

Try and make him chase a pitch here.

[d-money]

Wow!!!!

[Jasonbay44]

Wow. They actually got out of that

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Do you believe in magic?

[d-money]

Time to win this game!! Let’s go!!!!!

[illinoisredsox]

Lousy throw but at least it was up the 3rd base line.

[redsoxrules]

Wow! Impressive to get out of that.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Schreiber and Duvall and a good tag. That's all you need.

[illinoisredsox]

Bunt coming here

Edit- or not. WP helps.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I called for a wild pitch.

[moonslav59]

Bunt coming here

who needs to bunt when you are playing against the Sox...errrr. I mean ... the Rays D?

[moonslav59]

Was that ReeseWhitherspoon PH'ing?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Need another wild pitch or a balk or an error or an error called a hit.

[illinoisredsox]

who needs to bunt when you are playing against the Sox...errrr. I mean ... the Rays D?

WP did the job, but McGuire’s tap would have anyway.

[vegasbob]

McGuire hit some early in the year but in reality he is not good with the bat

[Jasonbay44]

We’ll take it!

[moonslav59]

Was that Urias Heep at bat?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Need another wild pitch or a balk or an error or an error called a hit.

Error called a hit was close.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Was that Urias Heep at bat?

Urias is the son of Uranus and should be treated as such.

[illinoisredsox]

Error called a hit was close.

Not an easy play as far as he had to go.

[jung]

You have become insufferable.

Turner’s ball was hit hard. It was also a play that should have been made. Two things can be true at the same time.

The SS was right in front of it and he moved out of the way so he could Ole it. If he had just stood there it would have hit him right in the clove on one bounce. And no...that was not a shot.....more of a looping liner.

Then Siri who did make a very good to great play in the OF earlier in the game crosses in front of the RFer as he is trying to make a catch. What the hell was he doing there? The correct place for him to be would have been several feet in front of the RFer so that if the RFer gave himself up trying to make the catch and the ball rebounded off the wall Siri could have hunted it down without much damage. From where Siri was he was just in the way and in no position to do anything. Then in the next half inning Siri lays down a bunt and Casas who is often found chewing on his glove at 1st base fails to get back to first so that there is somebody for the pitcher to toss the ball to in order to recored an out.

Defense/fielding in MLB this year is just terrible and it will remain terrible until MLB adapts to life without the shift and gets more all around ballplayers in the game....guys that can actually hit AND field some position.

[jung]

Like I said, you have become insufferable.

If truth is insuperable then I guess I am insufferable.

[d-money]

Might wanna throw strikes.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3rd appearance in row for Kenley. This is unknown territory.

[d-money]

Fuck you Jansen!

[Jasonbay44]

Lol really

[jung]

3rd appearance in row for Kenley. This is unknown territory.

Well I guess now its known territory

[redsoxrules]

3rd appearance in row for Kenley. This is unknown territory.

First time all season.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3rd appearance in row for Kenley. This is unknown territory.

Not unknown any longer.

[moonslav59]

B Lowe has always killed the Sox.

[d-money]

Lol really

Looking at gameday that pitch was up. 🤦*♂️ Right in the wheelhouse.

[illinoisredsox]

3rd appearance in row for Kenley. This is unknown territory.

You could see that coming in the AB against Diaz. Couldn’t put him away.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Tough loss, but there's always tomorrow.

[vegasbob]

Now Jansen has lost 6 games

[illinoisredsox]

Might wanna throw strikes.

How did that work out?

[d-money]

How did that work out?

Well that walk didn’t help.

[BOSOX11]

Jansen is garbage. If he was any good, the Dodgers would have kept him. We just pulled his sorry ass out of the recycle bin.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

B Lowe has always killed the Sox.

Actually, the SOX kill themselves. They don't need any help.

[illinoisredsox]

Jansen is garbage. If he was any good, the Dodgers would have kept him. We just pulled his sorry ass out of the recycle bin.

He saved 30 games this year, they’re asking him to do something he hasn’t done all year and he’s garbage?

[moonslav59]

Tough loss, but there's always tomorrow.

Too many tough losses.

[illinoisredsox]

Well that walk didn’t help.

So instead of 8-6, they lose 7-6.

[redsoxrules]

He saved 30 games this year, they’re asking him to do something he hasn’t done all year and he’s garbage?

Jansen has been babied which is why he's had a decent season. He's not that great when he has to pitch in consecutive games.

[moonslav59]

Coulda gained a game on TEX.

[Jasonbay44]

Jansen has been babied which is why he's had a decent season. He's not that great when he has to pitch in consecutive games.

He’s better than Matt Barnes

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

He saved 30 games this year, they’re asking him to do something he hasn’t done all year and he’s garbage?


Why bother? We live in a country of alternate facts.

[moonslav59]

The J-J bookends did us in.

Jacques & Jansen.

The pen in between did great: 5 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3BB, 6K

[moonslav59]

Why bother? We live in a country of alternate facts.

Makes me want to avoid the game threads, again.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Jansen has been babied which is why he's had a decent season. He's not that great when he has to pitch in consecutive games.

With Cora as manager all the SOX players are babied. This was Kenley's 3rd appearance in a row, not a usual thing for closers.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Makes me want to avoid the game threads, again.

C'mon, MOON. You had a couple of good zingers tonight. The season's almost over and good zingers are hard to find.

[redsoxrules]

He’s better than Matt Barnes

Anyone is better than Matt Barns.
They should go after Josh Hader this off season.

[moonslav59]

Jansen is garbage. If he was any good, the Dodgers would have kept him. We just pulled his sorry ass out of the recycle bin.

Dodgers:
40 Saves
14 Blown Saves (7 by Graterol)
74%

Red Sox
40 Saves
13 Blown Saves (only 4 by Jansen)
k75%

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Too many tough losses.

Defense has been a factor, but imho, lack of timely hitting has been the biggest factor.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Anyone is better than Matt Barns.
They should go after Josh Hader this off season.

Maybe Bra Man.

[redsoxrules]

What's Jansen numbers this year when pitching on consecutive games? I can't seem to get numbers for this.

[illinoisredsox]

Dodgers:
40 Saves
14 Blown Saves (7 by Graterol)
74%

Red Sox
40 Saves
13 Blown Saves (only 4 by Jansen)
k75%


Pretty sure the Sox have the fewest in the majors this season. At worst, they have the second fewest. I think they are best in save percentage or again, maybe second.

[moonslav59]

Defense has been a factor, but imho, lack of time hitting has been the biggest factor.

Yes. Bases loaded and no outs.

How many times, this year?

OKay, I checked. Can't belive we are batting .324 with bases jacked. (Must be in 9-2 games.)

[moonslav59]

Pretty sure the Sox have the fewest in the majors this season. At worst, they have the second fewest. I think they are best in save percentage or again, maybe second.

To many judge on a player's last AB or appearance. Some on one pitch.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Bra Man.

Just replace clowns like Jacques.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The J-J bookends did us in.

Jacques & Jansen.

The pen in between did great: 5 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3BB, 6K



...

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yes. Bases loaded and no outs.

How many times, this year?

OKay, I checked. Can't belive we are batting .324 with bases jacked. (Must be in 9-2 games.)

Trust your eyes more than stats.

[illinoisredsox]

To many judge on a player's last AB or appearance. Some on one pitch.

That’s for sure.

[illinoisredsox]

Don't understand why Martin, the SOX best reliever, couldn't have tried to finish the game tonight. IMHO, the odds were better using Martin than a 3rd straight appearance by Jansen. WTF, Cora does what Cora does and I would also have him take some responsiblity for 'tough' losses.

Martin pitched the 8th. You want him to pitch the 9th, 10th and 11th as well?

Schreiber did the job in the 9th and 10th.

Crawford going less than 4 was a killer.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Martin pitched the 8th. You want him to pitch the 9th, 10th and 11th as well?

Schreiber did the job in the 9th and 10th.

Crawford going less than 4 was a killer.

I f'd up. I thought Martin pitched the 10th. I wish I could blame drinking for my confusion, but I'm sober as Aaron Judge. I will delete that post immediately. Thanks for correcting my idiocy.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Martin pitched the 8th. You want him to pitch the 9th, 10th and 11th as well?

Schreiber did the job in the 9th and 10th.

Crawford going less than 4 was a killer.

SOX starters going deep (6 Innings now of days) is the exception, not the rule. The BP has been unfairly maligned, mainly because of inept starting pitching. Bloom has a ton of work to do this offseason. Hope he's up to it.

[****THEYANKEES]

Just replace clowns like Jacques.

exactly. this guy has been crap since the day he showed up. this POS makes Barnsey and Bra man look good.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Just replace clowns like Jacques.

How can you say that?

Joe Jokes threw a two-hitter: Lowe and Paredes, back-to-back (upon review, it may have been back-to-foot...)

Who says such clutch moments are not repeatable... Who says such clutch moments are not repeatable...

[moonslav59]

exactly. this guy has been crap since the day he showed up. this POS makes Barnsey and Bra man look good.

We've had a merry-go-round of carnival clowns, all year.

Our top 6-7 RPs have been ring leaders and strongmen. The bottom 7-8 have been side- show freaks.

[Bellhorn04]

We've had a merry-go-round of carnival clowns, all year.

Our top 6-7 RPs have been ring leaders and strongmen. The bottom 7-8 have been side- show freaks.

And when you have so many short starts from the rotation you get way too many performances by the latter.

[mvp 78]

And when you have so many short starts from the rotation you get way too many performances by the latter.

The problem definitely resides in the rotation first and foremost. The worst two guys in your bullpen aren't going to tank your season.

[moonslav59]

And when you have so many short starts from the rotation you get way too many performances by the latter.

Indeed, but if we had one more long guy like Houck, Pivetta, Crawford, and most years Whitlock, we'd have won a lot more games with them vs:
IP Pitcher ERA
31 Bleier 5.28
25 Jacques 5.11
23 Ort 6.26
21 Bra-Man 7.29
19 Walter 5.79
18 Garza 7.36
17 Llovera 4.67
8 Bear Claw 12.91
3.0 Littell 9.0
2.0 Faria 22.00
2.0 Lamet 13.50

That's over 160 IP, some of which were mop up, so if we replaced 80-100 of those with just a 4.50 long guy, we'd have more wins and less stress on the better part of our pen.

[moonslav59]

The problem definitely resides in the rotation first and foremost. The worst two guys in your bullpen aren't going to tank your season.

No doubt, but there are more than just 2 areas (SP & untimely hitting) that have cost us 5-6 games.

I'd say...

8-12 games Defense
5-8 games first or second guy in from the pen.

[Bellhorn04]

No doubt, but there are more than just 2 areas (SP & untimely hitting) that have cost us 5-6 games.

I'd say...

8-12 games Defense
5-8 games first or second guy in from the pen.

That's 13-20 games.

20 more wins would give us the best record in baseball.

No way you can back this up.

[moonslav59]

That's 13-20 games.

20 more wins would give us the best record in baseball.

No way you can back this up.

How many wins does 60+ opps hits turned into outs get a team? That is the difference between our OAA and some of the better defensive teams. We ar 77 worse than the best team and about 50 worse than the mean.

It's hard to prove the 7th and 8th RP losses turned to win, but change the ERA from about 7.00 to 4.50 for 160 IP and do the math. I think that comes to about 45 runs (not outs.)

I'd guess it's closer to 20 than 12-13, but I'm pretty sure it's 13.

[****THEYANKEES]

And when you have so many short starts from the rotation you get way too many performances by the latter.


and the shitty defense makes it harder for a shaky pitching staff to go deeper into games. but some people say defense doesn't matter.

[moonslav59]

and the shitty defense makes it harder for a shaky pitching staff to go deeper into games. but some people say defense doesn't matter.

It's hard to keep track of how many 4 and 5 out innings our pitchers had to get through, and it seems like a heck of a lot more than the -49 OAA number.

Perhaps, I am counting possible outs for every play, even somewhat tough to really tough ones I see opposing defense make against us as an extra out, but I'm pretty sure, even being conservative, it has to be 49 or more missed outs. It seems like more than 1 every 3 games, though.

[Bellhorn04]

How many wins does 60+ opps hits turned into outs get a team? That is the difference between our OAA and some of the better defensive teams. We ar 77 worse than the best team and about 50 worse than the mean.

It's hard to prove the 7th and 8th RP losses turned to win, but change the ERA from about 7.00 to 4.50 for 160 IP and do the math. I think that comes to about 45 runs (not outs.)

I'd guess it's closer to 20 than 12-13, but I'm pretty sure it's 13.



FanGraphs WAR calculations convert 10 runs to 1 win.

[Bellhorn04]

We've got players who have been good on O but lousy on D, like Casas, Yoshida, Duvall etc.

What it comes down to is...if we had better players, we'd be a better team!

[moonslav59]

FanGraphs WAR calculations convert 10 runs to 1 win.

Okay, how many hits turned to outs does it take to save a run? (Defence)

So, the 45 "extra runs" let up by our scrub pitchers might have led to 4-5 more losses. (I said 5-8.)

[mvp 78]

We've got players who have been good on O but lousy on D, like Casas, Yoshida, Duvall etc.

What it comes down to is...if we had better players, we'd be a better team!

Casas may get better. Duvall is a decent corner OF, but a horrible CF. Yoshida is a DH.

[mvp 78]

Okay, how many hits turned to outs does it take to save a run?

Depends.

[moonslav59]

We've got players who have been good on O but lousy on D, like Casas, Yoshida, Duvall etc.

What it comes down to is...if we had better players, we'd be a better team!

Better all around players, yes, especially at key defensive positions like SS.

[jad]

Has the RS season deteriorated to such a point that we are now discussing (in part, unironically it seems) the issue of whether having better players makes for a better team?

[moonslav59]

Has the RS season deteriorated to such a point that we are now discussing (in part, unironically it seems) the issue of whether having better players makes for a better team?

That's such an absurd concept.

[Maxbialystock]

No doubt, but there are more than just 2 areas (SP & untimely hitting) that have cost us 5-6 games.

I'd say...

8-12 games Defense
5-8 games first or second guy in from the pen.

This is not credible because you have zero hard evidence. Go to all the box scores--or better still the pitch by pitch replay you can get on mlb.com--and cite specific examples of 8-12 games lost specifically because of the defense and nothing else.

I hasten to add that the Sox lose in 9 innings last night without the two Rays errors which led to 2 unearned runs. The two Sox errors led to 0 unearned runs.

The Sox are ranked 21st in team ERA. I know you and many others despise ERA, but over time it's been a consistent marker on whether or not the Sox will get to the postseason. Below are the Sox rankings in team ERA and whether or not they made it to the postseason.

2022, 25th, no
2021, 15th, yes
2019, 19th, no
2018, 8th, yes
2017, 4th, yes
2016, 9th, yes
2015, 25th, no
2014, 23d, no
2013, 14th, yes
2012, 27th, no
2011, 22d, no
2010, 22d, no
2009, 16th, yes
2008, 9th, yes
2007, 2d, yes
2006, 26th, no
2005, 24th, yes
2004, 11th, yes
2003, 17th, yes
2002, 7th, no

2005 (ERA 24th, yes postseason), and 2002 (ERA 7th, no postseason) are the two exceptions in 20 seasons. I skipped 2020 because I don't think it was a real season. But, FYI, the Sox ERA was 28th and they didn't make it to the postseason.

[moonslav59]

This is not credible because you have zero hard evidence. Go to all the box scores--or better still the pitch by pitch replay you can get on mlb.com--and cite specific examples of 8-12 games lost specifically because of the defense and nothing else.

I hasten to add that the Sox lose in 9 innings last night without the two Rays errors which led to 2 unearned runs. The two Sox errors led to 0 unearned runs.

Did the Sox misplays on D cost us runs or not?

In a tied agme after 9, I'm saying we make those plays, we win.

It has nothing to do with how we scored.

I already proved we might have lost 5 games from our scrubs in the 7-8 slots of the pen.
I have evidence to prove our D has made 60-77 less outs on D than our top contenders in 139 games.

I showed evidence.

BTW, box scores don't note plays that weren't made that should have been made.

I've watched every game. 77 less outs made is being conservative.

I did not ever say defense and nothing else, just like you can't say x amount of games were lost on pitching and nothing else or batting and nothing else.

[moonslav59]

This is not credible because you have zero hard evidence. Go to all the box scores--or better still the pitch by pitch replay you can get on mlb.com--and cite specific examples of 8-12 games lost specifically because of the defense and nothing else.

I hasten to add that the Sox lose in 9 innings last night without the two Rays errors which led to 2 unearned runs. The two Sox errors led to 0 unearned runs.

Did you watch the game? The play Duvall misplayed was a sure third out and not called an error. A runner scored on the misplay and the next guy homered. It should have been 3 unearned runs. If you can't count that one as poor D leading to runs, I can never convince you of anything.

Again....

With average defense, I am convinced we'd have won 8-9 more games, minimum. With slightly above average: 9-11. Great D 11-12 or more.

Box scores show errors and unearned runs. We've already seen dozens of plays that used to be called errors caalled hits, this year, not to mention all the plays they've never called erros, like an OF'er circling a fly ball and never touching it.

Opposing teams had a .309 BAbip vs us, this year. That means about 31% of all balls put in play were hits, while 60% were outs.

Since 183 of the 1239 hits were for HRs, 1066 were balls hit for singles, doubles or triples. (That's not counting reach on errors, and we have had 94, some of which did not allow a baserunner to get on base, but did allow him to advance a base or two.)

The overly generous scorekeepers already shows our errors,alone led to 50 unearned runs, which in theory led to 5 losses. I'm 100% certain, uncalled errors that were clear misplays led to another 30 runs and 3 losses, and marginal plays not made led to 1-3 more losses.

Of course, no game is one or lost on one or even 2 plays, but losses could have been converted to wins with better pitching, better batting, better defense and better baserunning.

[moonslav59]

This is not credible because you have zero hard evidence. Go to all the box scores--or better still the pitch by pitch replay you can get on mlb.com--and cite specific examples of 8-12 games lost specifically because of the defense and nothing else.

I hasten to add that the Sox lose in 9 innings last night without the two Rays errors which led to 2 unearned runs. The two Sox errors led to 0 unearned runs.

The Sox are ranked 21st in team ERA. I know you and many others despise ERA, but over time it's been a consistent marker on whether or not the Sox will get to the postseason. Below are the Sox rankings in team ERA and whether or not they made it to the postseason.

2022, 25th, no
2021, 15th, yes
2019, 19th, no
2018, 8th, yes
2017, 4th, yes
2016, 9th, yes
2015, 25th, no
2014, 23d, no
2013, 14th, yes
2012, 27th, no
2011, 22d, no
2010, 22d, no
2009, 16th, yes
2008, 9th, yes
2007, 2d, yes
2006, 26th, no
2005, 24th, yes
2004, 11th, yes
2003, 17th, yes
2002, 7th, no

2005 (ERA 24th, yes postseason), and 2002 (ERA 7th, no postseason) are the two exceptions in 20 seasons. I skipped 2020 because I don't think it was a real season. But, FYI, the Sox ERA was 28th and they didn't make it to the postseason.

Max. For the hundreth time I totally agree pitching is the main issue.

That does not mean defense can't have accounted for 8-12 losses and pitching 30-50.

Why are you showing me these numbers? We agree.

BTW, there has been a clear change in the way plays are ruled hits vs errors in 2023, so our ERA would be much better had 20-30 hits been called errors, and it might be more than 30.

[dgalehouse]

He saved 30 games this year, they’re asking him to do something he hasn’t done all year and he’s garbage?

In hindsight, Jansen probably should not have pitched on Sunday. At this point in his career, he probably needs the rest more than he needs the work. But I really can't blame Cora. He can't predict the future and the team is at the point where they need to lock down every win they can.

[moonslav59]

In hindsight, Jansen probably should not have pitched on Sunday. .

BINGO, and someone pointed that out, at the time. We did not need him, that game.

Another ding on Cora.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Has the RS season deteriorated to such a point that we are now discussing (in part, unironically it seems) the issue of whether having better players makes for a better team?

Hey -- Johnny Pesky said it makes the beer taste better and that makes the women look better... what are we waiting for!

[vegasbob]

BINGO, and someone pointed that out, at the time. We did not need him, that game.

Another ding on Cora.

Thanks. That was almost a Capt Obvious call. Why was Jansen used in a game almost anyone else could have closed ? Cora may have thought he needed the work, but also realize Jansen has some leg related issue, hamstring/sore knee ??. AC knew the Rays series was critical.

[Bellhorn04]

I was perplexed by using Jansen in Sunday's game too, but I have to think the other high-leverage guys were deemed unavailable. Schreiber and Bernardino had already pitched. Winckowski threw 19 pitches the previous game. They've been really careful with Martin.

Could have used one of the low-leverage guys but you know how fast they can cause trouble.

It's definitely one of those things that deserved an explanation. Not sure if Cora was asked about it or not.

[Maxbialystock]

Max. For the hundreth time I totally agree pitching is the main issue.

That does not mean defense can't have accounted for 8-12 losses and pitching 30-50.

Why are you showing me these numbers? We agree.

BTW, there has been a clear change in the way plays are ruled hits vs errors in 2023, so our ERA would be much better had 20-30 hits been called errors, and it might be more than 30.

No, you don't agree because you insist that ERA's are bunk because fielders make tons of mistakes that aren't counted as errors. You only beat the drum on defense, not on pitching or on hitting.

[Maxbialystock]

BINGO, and someone pointed that out, at the time. We did not need him, that game.

Another ding on Cora.

BINGO my aunt fanny. Before we go after the manager for something he did on Sunday, let's look at what his players did 2 days later in last night's game--

1. Starter Crawford stunk, giving up 5 ER in 3.2 innings.
2. Reliever Jacques did Crawford no favors by coming in with the bases loaded and 2 outs and HBP'ing the first two batters he faced.
3. After that, the bullpen, including Jacques, held the Rays scoreless for 6.1 innings. Fantastic!
4. However, the lineup scored a grand total of 3 earned runs in the game because the other 2 runs occurred because of 2 errors by the Rays.
5. Even with a man on 2d base and no one out in the 10th inning, the Sox failed to score.
6. I did not see Duvall fail to catch something, but did see him make an extremely clutch throw from RF to get the final out in the 10th inning and prevent the Rays from scoring the winning run.
7. Before Jansen gave up that dinger in the 11th, the Sox lineup again failed to bring a man home from 2d base with no one out.

As far as I'm concerned, this loss is on Crawford, Jacques, and, once again, the Sox weak hitting lineup that only scored 3 earned runs and then twice failed to bring a guy home from 2d base in the 10th and 11th innings.

[notin]

BINGO my aunt fanny. Before we go after the manager for something he did on Sunday, let's look at what his players did 2 days later in last night's game--

1. Starter Crawford stunk, giving up 5 ER in 3.2 innings.
2. Reliever Jacques did Crawford no favors by coming in with the bases loaded and 2 outs and HBP'ing the first two batters he faced.
3. After that, the bullpen, including Jacques, held the Rays scoreless for 6.1 innings. Fantastic!
4. However, the lineup scored a grand total of 3 earned runs in the game because the other 2 runs occurred because of 2 errors by the Rays.
5. Even with a man on 2d base and no one out in the 10th inning, the Sox failed to score.
6. I did not see Duvall fail to catch something, but did see him make an extremely clutch throw from RF to get the final out in the 10th inning and prevent the Rays from scoring the winning run.
7. Before Jansen gave up that dinger in the 11th, the Sox lineup again failed to bring a man home from 2d base with no one out.

As far as I'm concerned, this loss is on Crawford, Jacques, and, once again, the Sox weak hitting lineup that only scored 3 earned runs and then twice failed to bring a guy home from 2d base in the 10th and 11th innings.


The Sox scored the ghost runner in the 11th inning…

[Maxbialystock]

The Sox scored the ghost runner in the 11th inning…

You're absolutely right. How could I forget the magnificent baserunning by Refsnyder going from 2d to 3d on that wild pitch? Or his beautifully timed dash home when the Rays 2d baseman dropped the pop fly? I hereby apologize to the entire Sox lineup for not appreciating their great clutch hitting at the Trop.

P.S. Ghost runner fits.

[moonslav59]

No, you don't agree because you insist that ERA's are bunk because fielders make tons of mistakes that aren't counted as errors. You only beat the drum on defense, not on pitching or on hitting.

I agree that pitching is the main issue- same as you. I've been beating the drum on pitching every year for 50 years, Max.

The reason we did not win, this year, is because we did not add 2 capable SP'ers. We could have won with 2, despite the poor defense.

That does not change the fact or minimize the impact our poor D had on our wins and losses, and be enough that we could have been a contender.

Do you deny less erros are being charged, this year?

Errors called per game:
.060 in '21
.059 in '22
.057 in '23

it's a fact.

It does affect the ERA, but ours would still suck, even with average D- just not as badly.

You seem to deny the chance there could be more than 1 or 2 reasons a team can lose.

Nobody is saying defense is the number one reason. I don't think anyone is saying it's even close to pitching, namely the rotation.

I have posted dozens and dozens of posts about our shitty rotation.

The main reason I have been talking about defense, recently is in response to your denying it has had a significant effect.

[moonslav59]

BINGO my aunt fanny. Before we go after the manager for something he did on Sunday, let's look at what his players did 2 days later in last night's game--

1. Starter Crawford stunk, giving up 5 ER in 3.2 innings.
2. Reliever Jacques did Crawford no favors by coming in with the bases loaded and 2 outs and HBP'ing the first two batters he faced.
3. After that, the bullpen, including Jacques, held the Rays scoreless for 6.1 innings. Fantastic!
4. However, the lineup scored a grand total of 3 earned runs in the game because the other 2 runs occurred because of 2 errors by the Rays.
5. Even with a man on 2d base and no one out in the 10th inning, the Sox failed to score.
6. I did not see Duvall fail to catch something, but did see him make an extremely clutch throw from RF to get the final out in the 10th inning and prevent the Rays from scoring the winning run.
7. Before Jansen gave up that dinger in the 11th, the Sox lineup again failed to bring a man home from 2d base with no one out.

As far as I'm concerned, this loss is on Crawford, Jacques, and, once again, the Sox weak hitting lineup that only scored 3 earned runs and then twice failed to bring a guy home from 2d base in the 10th and 11th innings.

Yes seven times. That's why we lost. We also lost because Jansen sucked.

Why do only your reason count and ours go to Aunt Fanny?

We won't know how Jansen might have done had he not pitched on Sunday. That does not mean we can't hypothesis about it.

There are many reasons we lost- one was Jansen.

You bashed me about saying the runs allowed to score because of Duvall's blunder, and now say you did not see it.

Please stop, Max.

All 3 runs scored should have been unearned vs Crawford in that inning. The next 2 were allowed to score by Jacques on HBPs with the bases loaded. I could easly cry, "Send your Craford stunk comment to Uncle Benny!"

[notin]

You're absolutely right. How could I forget the magnificent baserunning by Refsnyder going from 2d to 3d on that wild pitch? Or his beautifully timed dash home when the Rays 2d baseman dropped the pop fly? I hereby apologize to the entire Sox lineup for not appreciating their great clutch hitting at the Trop.

P.S. Ghost runner fits.

If your gripe is that they didn’t score, the acceptable argument upon being proven wrong is not “but they didn’t score well enough.”

I mean, you’re trying to argue that the offense and not the defense was the problem in a game that went to extra innings after Wilyer Abreu fell down losing a potential inning-ending routine fly ball in the dome roof that went for a run scoring triple and was part of a 3 run inning…

[moonslav59]

If your gripe is that they didn’t score, the acceptable argument upon being proven wrong is not “but they do isn’t score well enough.”

I mean, you’re trying to argue that the offense and not the defense was the problem in a game that went to extra innings after Wilyer Abreu fell down losing a potential inning-ending routine fly ball in the dome roof that went for a run scoring triple and was part of a 3 run inning…

That's right. It was Abreu not Duvall in CF. My bad.

If they call that an error, like they should, all 3 runs were unearned.

Later, Jacques hits 2 batters with the bases loaded, which adds 2 runs scored to Crawford, and the excuse he lists first is "Crawford sucked."

Okay, he let up the homer before out #4 in the inning. He did not pitch well, but losing is a team event, and defense is part of the team

[Maxbialystock]

BINGO, and someone pointed that out, at the time. We did not need him, that game.

Another ding on Cora.

Meh. Jansen also pitched Monday and was terrific.

[Bellhorn04]

Meh. Jansen also pitched Monday and was terrific.

It is nonetheless worth asking why he was pitching with a 7-1 lead Sunday. I figure the other high-leverage guys must all have been ruled out to avoid overuse.

[notin]

Meh. Jansen also pitched Monday and was terrific.

I questioned using a Jansen in the 7-3 game. I suppose he really did need the work

[moonslav59]

It is nonetheless worth asking why he was pitching with a 7-1 lead Sunday. I figure the other high-leverage guys must all have been ruled out to avoid overuse.

I realize Cora needs to weigh how important it is to get Jansen some work and if eventually it would get to be so long he might be ineffective in his next game vs maybe needing him 2 games in a row in the following two games.

It's not an easy choice, but it's certainly okay to discuss its merits.

I never said it was a horrible or even a bad mistake. I just mentioned it, because it may have (see emphasis on "may") been a factor in why he pitched poorly, last night.

I'm still a huge Cora fan and rarely question in game decisions. I'm not sure he made a mistake on this one.