The 2023 Red Sox Budget

[moonslav59]

We have no way of knowing, if the Sox will reset the tax budget this year or in 2024, but the pattern seems to indicate it will happen, next year or the one after.

Here are the tax numbers (AAV) in $millions:

25.6 Sale
23.3 Story
10.0 Kike
9.4 Barnes
4.7 Whitlock
(73.0 sub total)

Arb Estimates:
16.5 Devers
5.5 Verdugo
5.3 Pivetta
3.0 Arroyo
2.5 Brasier (non tendered?)
2.1 McGuire
1.3 Refsnyder
1.1 Taylor (if not healthy, non tendered?)
1.0 Cordero (non tendered?)
0.8 Chang (non tendered?)
(39.0 sub total)

6.0 0-3 yr players
1.7 0-3 yr bonus pool
2.3 40 man roster players in minors
16.5 player benefits
(17.5 sub total)

$130M Total Estimated

Option:
Paxton $13M x 2 (Club option) or $4M (Player option)- good chance both say no.

The tax line is $232M, so if the Sox spend right up to the line without going over, we'd have a winter AAV spending budget of about $100M, assuming no Paxton option, and all the arbs given.

Our high need areas ranked in order by my own personal beliefs:

1. SS
2. SP (1-2 slot)
3. RF
4. RP (possible closer type)
5. RP (solid set-up)
6. SP/RP (depending on where Whitlock is slotted)
7. C
8. DH (1B or 4th OF w RF/CF ability)
9. P (depth)

My guess is, we may fill 5-7 of these slots and leave the rest to what we already have in the system.

The offseason has begun.

[moonslav59]

So, assuming we have $100M to spend, which of the FAs should we sign?

Fangraph's estimates (adjusted to reach whole year increment):

SS
254/8 Correa
215/7 Turner
168/6 Bogey
139/6 Swanson (23.1)

RF :
294/8 Judge
102/5 Nimmo (20.7)
CF
18/2 Kiermaier

LF (Dugo to RF):
56/4 Beni
33/3 Profar
24/2 Conforto

SP
135/5 Rodon
116/3 deGrom
69/2 Verlander
60/4 Senga
48/3 Bassitt
43/3 T Walker
42/3 M Perez
41/2 Kershaw
38/3 Taillon (12.5)
28/2 T Anderson
28/2 Syndergaard
23/2 Quintana
22/2 Manaea
21/2 Stripling
21/1 Heaney
20/2 Wacha (10.0)
11.5/1 Kluber
9/1 Cueto

RP
16/2 Rogers

C
70/4 Contreras

1B or DH
42/3 J Bell
36/2 Rizzo
34/2 Abreu
26/2 JD
18/2 Mancini
12.5/1 Brantley

2B (Story to SS)
31/3 Drury
25/2 Segura

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Does JBJ's 8 million still count against the cap in 2023?

[Bellhorn04]

Does JBJ's 8 million still count against the cap in 2023?

No, it was factored into his 2021 and 2022 AAV's because it was guaranteed money.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

also, they will probably spend around another 4-5 million on rookies. So isn't the true budget somewhere around 85 million? I don't know TBH, the true numbers always seem to elude us.

[notin]

You left out 2023 Sox RF Joey Gallo…

[notin]

Also is Judge going to be under $300mill?

The guy turned down $210/7 already, and that was before his absolutely historic season…

[moonslav59]

also, they will probably spend around another 4-5 million on rookies. So isn't the true budget somewhere around 85 million? I don't know TBH, the true numbers always seem to elude us.

That money was factored into what I presented.

[mvp 78]

Turner 30.7
Judge 36.8
Bassitt 16
Kluber 11.5

You didn't list any other relievers, so I'll assume Rogers is the only guy available this offseason and I'll pass. Whitlock can be closer again.

[moonslav59]

Turner 30.7
Judge 36.8
Bassitt 16
Kluber 11.5

You didn't list any other relievers, so I'll assume Rogers is the only guy available this offseason and I'll pass. Whitlock can be closer again.

Rogers was the only RP'er listed in their top 40.

[mvp 78]

Rogers was the only RP'er listed in their top 40.

I was just using the estimates based on your list only and ignoring all other FA's.

Honestly, I think the Judge and Turner amounts are low which is why I put them in my list. Otherwise, I don't see the Sox grabbing them.

[moonslav59]

I was just using the estimates based on your list only and ignoring all other FA's.

Honestly, I think the Judge and Turner amounts are low which is why I put them in my list. Otherwise, I don't see the Sox grabbing them.

Yes, I'd certainly keep some money aside for RP'er.

I went with Nimmo, Swanson, Brantley, Taillon and Wacha as my picks and left $21-22M for the pen- maybe 2-4 signings.

[moonslav59]

Minimum Needs:

SS

RF

SP

RP

Probable Needs:

RP

P


Possible others:
C
DH/1B
P

[mvp 78]

Yes, I'd certainly keep some money aside for RP'er.

I went with Nimmo, Swanson, Brantley, Taillon and Wacha as my picks and left $21-22M for the pen- maybe 2-4 signings.

The Swanson $$$ seems really low.

[moonslav59]

The Swanson $$$ seems really low.

He should be lower than Bogey, Correa and Turner, but yes. It seems low.

I bet Nimmo gets more, too.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

He should be lower than Bogey, Correa and Turner, but yes. It seems low.

I bet Nimmo gets more, too.

I would not be surprised if Swanson is the best value going forward. He could be coming into his prime right now. He might be a 5 WAR player thats going to be paid like a 3 WAR guy.

Here's a crazy thought, sign both Bogaerts, and Nimmo. Play Nimmo in CF, play Bogaerts in LF, have Verdugo get back into (not bulking) shape and play him in RF, move Story to SS and play Kike at 2B. Kike's is a plus defender there and maybe this is just a coincidence buy his offense is much much better when he's playing the infield.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

He should be lower than Bogey, Correa and Turner, but yes. It seems low.

I bet Nimmo gets more, too.

If a budget-conscious CBO is considering giving Nimmo $100+M for 5 years, isn't Benintendi a much better value? Beni -- not Nimmo -- was an All-Star and Gold Glover the past two seasons.

Andrew is also two years younger...

[moonslav59]

I would not be surprised if Swanson is the best value going forward. He could be coming into his prime right now. He might be a 5 WAR player thats going to be paid like a 3 WAR guy.

Here's a crazy thought, sign both Bogaerts, and Nimmo. Play Nimmo in CF, play Bogaerts in LF, have Verdugo get back into (not bulking) shape and play him in RF, move Story to SS and play Kike at 2B. Kike's is a plus defender there and maybe this is just a coincidence buy his offense is much much better when he's playing the infield.

I'd make it simpler:

SS Swanson
2B Story
LF Dugo
CF Kike or Nimmo
RF Nimmo or Kike

[moonslav59]

If a budget-conscious CBO is considering giving Nimmo $100+M for 5 years, isn't Benintendi a much better value? Beni -- not Nimmo -- was an All-Star and Gold Glover the past two seasons.

Andrew is also two years younger...

Bringing up Beni's GG in LF does not mention the downgrade we'd have in RF with Dugo v Nimmo, but signing Beni at a fraction of Nimmo's cost is not a bad idea.

We could also sign Brantley for LF for cheaper and shorter than Beni or Nimmo... a bridge to Rafaela, maybe.

[mvp 78]

I would not be surprised if Swanson is the best value going forward. He could be coming into his prime right now. He might be a 5 WAR player thats going to be paid like a 3 WAR guy.

Here's a crazy thought, sign both Bogaerts, and Nimmo. Play Nimmo in CF, play Bogaerts in LF, have Verdugo get back into (not bulking) shape and play him in RF, move Story to SS and play Kike at 2B. Kike's is a plus defender there and maybe this is just a coincidence buy his offense is much much better when he's playing the infield.

Swanson is only a year younger than Bogaerts. Unfortunately, part of his prime was wasted in 2020.

[moonslav59]

Swanson is only a year younger than Bogaerts. Unfortunately, part of his prime was wasted in 2020.

If it comes down to Bogey at $170M/6 vs Swanson at $160M/7, who do you take?

They both reach the same age for the final year of the deal.

[mvp 78]

If it comes down to Bogey at $170M/6 vs Swanson at $160M/7, who do you take?

They both reach the same age for the final year of the deal.

Bogaerts.

[moonslav59]

Bogaerts.

Pretty close for me.

How about Bogey at $170M/6 vs Swanson at $140M/6 (same as Story's deal)?

[mvp 78]

Pretty close for me.

How about Bogey at $170M/6 vs Swanson at $140M/6 (same as Story's deal)?

Bogaerts.

Bogaerts just has the much better bat. I see him moving off position in 3 years anyway. LF? 3B? His bat will play.

[dgalehouse]

I think Bloom ticked off Bogaerts with the low ball offer , then giving Story a better one . There may still be time to correct that blunder. Or it may be too late .

[moonslav59]

Bogaerts.

Bogaerts just has the much better bat. I see him moving off position in 3 years anyway. LF? 3B? His bat will play.

I'd take Swanson due to an upgrade in SS defense and being a year younger. His contract would end at 3 years younger than Bogey's in my second scenario.

[notin]

If a budget-conscious CBO is considering giving Nimmo $100+M for 5 years, isn't Benintendi a much better value? Beni -- not Nimmo -- was an All-Star and Gold Glover the past two seasons.

Andrew is also two years younger...

The hardware doesn’t mean s as h much (different positions plus want he a KC dole team rep?), but Benintendi’s age and that he’s generally healthier than Nimmo should matter. The big issue with Benintendi is that as a hitter he’s about as unpredictable as it gets. 2022 he was a high OBP singles machine. In 2021, his OBP about 50 points lower but his SLG was 50 points higher. In 2020, he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat, but he did draw a lot of walks.

So what is he?

[moonslav59]

So what is he?

Too unpredictable.

[notin]

Bogaerts.

Bogaerts just has the much better bat. I see him moving off position in 3 years anyway. LF? 3B? His bat will play.

The sooner he moves the better. Banning the shift will make defense all that much more important…

[mvp 78]

I'd take Swanson due to an upgrade in SS defense and being a year younger. His contract would end at 3 years younger than Bogey's in my second scenario.

If you sign Bogey for 6 years or Swanson for 6 years, how does Swanson's Contract end 3 years sooner if he's only a year younger? It still ends only a year earlier?

[Old Red]

I'd take Swanson due to an upgrade in SS defense and being a year younger. His contract would end at 3 years younger than Bogey's in my second scenario.

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

[mvp 78]

The hardware doesn’t mean s as h much (different positions plus want he a KC dole team rep?), but Benintendi’s age and that he’s generally healthier than Nimmo should matter. The big issue with Benintendi is that as a hitter he’s about as unpredictable as it gets. 2022 he was a high OBP singles machine. In 2021, his OBP about 50 points lower but his SLG was 50 points higher. In 2020, he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat, but he did draw a lot of walks.

So what is he?

In 2020, he bulked up and got injured so we can throw that season out. I think he's somewhere between 2021 and 2022.

xSLG
2017 52
2018 67
2019 55
2021 68
2022 55

While the actual slugging rate went down, the slugging rate went down across the league. His percentile was consistent with 17 (435) and 19 (456) even though this season it was down to 407.

[moonslav59]

If you sign Bogey for 6 years or Swanson for 6 years, how does Swanson's Contract end 3 years sooner if he's only a year younger? It still ends only a year earlier?

Good one.

My bad... again!

:rolleyes:

[mvp 78]

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

Baez
Manning
$15M

for

Cutter Coffey
Kutter Crawford

[moonslav59]

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

Glad you finally stated someone you want.

It's easy to never be wrong, when you don't state your specific plan ideas.

It's easy to be right, when you just say, "We need to upgrade our pen," then claim you were right when the pen sucks.

[Old Red]

Glad you finally stated someone you want.

It's easy to never be wrong, when you don't state your specific plan ideas.

It's easy to be right, when you just say, "We need to upgrade our pen," then claim you were right when the pen sucks.

I haven’t always said I want Bogey even when you, and others didn’t think Bogey was a good enough SS? Common sense says the BP needs upgrading if you want to have a winning team, and get out of last place in the Div it’s just a question of how high the priority is, which I put it on the top. Ideas?Ive been saying since last off season the Red Sox need a good reliable closer, and am still saying it.

[moonslav59]

I haven’t always said I want Bogey even when you, and others didn’t think Bogey was a good enough SS? Common sense says the BP needs upgrading if you want to have a winning team, and get out of last place in the Div it’s just a question of how high the priority is, which I put it on the top. Ideas?Ive been saying since last off season the Red Sox need a good reliable closer, and am still saying it.

Name a closer you want.

BTW, we both were almost exactly the same on what we'd offer Bogey, so keep building your strawmen. I value him as much as you do.

[moonslav59]

I'll be 100% correct on this winter's Red-like suggestions:

I want a SS who will do great in 2023, like Bogey and will pay him exactly the same as those who think he's "not a good enough SS."
I want a reliable closer and SP'er.
I want a reliable RF'er.

If we don't do this, Bloom sucks and I was 100% right.

[notin]

Baez
Manning
$15M

for

Cutter Coffey
Kutter Crawford

No!

No trading all the Sox Cutters/Kutters in one trade!!

[notin]

If you sign Bogey for 6 years or Swanson for 6 years, how does Swanson's Contract end 3 years sooner if he's only a year younger? It still ends only a year earlier?

First you need to put Swanson in a rocket that travels at the speed of light…

[Old Red]

Name a closer you want.

BTW, we both were almost exactly the same on what we'd offer Bogey, so keep building your strawmen. I value him as much as you do.

Bogey’s price has gone up the second he opted out. They have had since last offseason to work on this, and like I have said their actions have spoken more than their words.

[Old Red]

I'll be 100% correct on this winter's Red-like suggestions:

I want a SS who will do great in 2023, like Bogey and will pay him exactly the same as those who think he's "not a good enough SS."
I want a reliable closer and SP'er.
I want a reliable RF'er.

If we don't do this, Bloom sucks and I was 100% right.

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.

[notin]

An interesting but rarely (if ever on this board?) thought might be Willson Contreras as catcher/DH.

It might mean the Sox would have to keep Connor Wong and jettison Bobby Dalbec. I’m not sure that’s a dealbreaker for anyone.

Except Dalbec, obviously…

[notin]

So my thoughts on free agent pitchers:

1. Give a QO to Eovaldi. If he accepts, he’s certainly tolerable for one season. I don’t think Nate has very many seasons left in him, but he was the best pitcher in the AL by fWAR as recently as 2021. $19.35mill is not a big raise, but the one year makes it a bargain.

2. Looking at Zone% and Contact% over the past 3 years, the two best free agent SPs might be Eovaldi and Carlos Rodon. Both are worrisome for multi year deals. Both are smarter investments than Jake deGrom.

3. Free agent relievers like Rafael Montero, Robert Suarez and Michael Fulmer should be signed. And Bloom? If you can’t decide which one, collect them all!

[moonslav59]

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.

It wasn't a proposal, for God's sake.

When someone says one position is our highest need area, I look at our high need areas and see which ones I think need the most help. It's not a proposal: it's a statement of fact on what we have at each high need area and which one(s) is the worst.

I don't think it's the pen, especially if Houck and or Whitlock is part of it.

IMO, our weakest positions, right now, are SS, RF and SP (not necessarily in this order) and then the pen.

Of course, you overanalyzed again and read things into my statements that were not even mildly implied.

Nobody, including myself, is advocating Downs at SS, Duran/Refsnyder as platoons in corner OF or Winckowski as a SP'er. All need fixing, as does the pen. My point was only about what is our top priority, which implies ranking the need areas.

[Old Red]

It wasn't a proposal, for God's sake.

When someone says one position is our highest need area, I look at our high need areas and see which ones I think need the most help. It's not a proposal: it's a statement of fact on what we have at each high need area and which one(s) is the worst.

I don't think it's the pen, especially if Houck and or Whitlock is part of it.

IMO, our weakest positions, right now, are SS, RF and SP (not necessarily in this order) and then the pen.

Of course, you overanalyzed again and read things into my statements that were not even mildly implied.

Nobody, including myself, is advocating Downs at SS, Duran/Refsnyder as platoons in corner OF or Winckowski as a SP'er. All need fixing, as does the pen. My point was only about what is our top priority, which implies ranking the need areas.
It’s amazing that it is always someone else out there that is over analyzing, and not you. Anyone who even throws Downs, and Duran out there as being part of anything is more than a proverbial head scratcher. Throwing out extremes, because making the BP the #1 priority did not fit your opinion.SS once again is only a weak area, because the Red Sox have chosen at the moment to make it one.

[moonslav59]

An interesting but rarely (if ever on this board?) thought might be Willson Contreras as catcher/DH.


Word is the Astros agreed to trade Urquidy for Contreras, straight up at the deadline, but the Astros owner, Jim Crane, nixed the deal.

One rumor says Crane asked Dusty Baker about Contreras, and he had "clubhouse concerns" about WC. They ended up settling on Vaz and Mancini.

[notin]

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.


The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

[notin]

Word is the Astros agreed to trade Urquidy for Contreras, straight up at the deadline, but the Astros owner, Jim Crane, nixed the deal.

One rumor says Crane asked Dusty Baker about Contreras, and he had "clubhouse concerns" about WC. They ended up settling on Vaz and Mancini.


Let me debunk that rumor - it never happened.

Baker last managed the Cubs in 2006, at which time Contreras was 14 years old and nowhere near the Cubs’ clubhouse. In fact, he wouldn’t get in it for another 10 years. By then, was two teams further down his managerial career.

So not sure why Crane asked Baker. Might as well have asked me…

[moonslav59]

It’s amazing that it is always someone else out there that is over analyzing, and not you. Anyone who even throws Downs, and Duran out there as being part of anything is more than a proverbial head scratcher. Throwing out extremes, because making the BP the #1 priority did not fit your opinion.SS once again is only a weak area, because the Red Sox have chosen at the moment to make it one.

It's not throwing out extremes. They are near the top of the depth chart, as of now. That's how bad SS and corner OF is.

Soxprospects.com has Downs in the 1 slot at SS, Refsnyder #1 in RF and Duran in the #2 slot in CF. Of course, nobody expects them to be there on opening day, but that is precisely why those positions are our highest need areas, along with SP'er, where sure enough, they have Winckowski at the 5 slot before any additions.

Yes, I provide evidence to support my position, and yes, who we have at SS, RF and SP looks extremely bad.

I have also never said we don't have a high priority with the pen, as well. I've said, several times, we need at minimum 2 solid RP'er or 3-4 good ones. No, I don't think the pen is the number one high need area, but it still is in need of significant fixing.

A lot will depend on where we slot Whitlock and Houck. If they both will start, I'd move the pen above the rotation on my own personal priority list.

I guess posters should not be allowed to defend their positions, anymore.

[moonslav59]

Let me debunk that rumor - it never happened.

Baker last managed the Cubs in 2006, at which time Contreras was 14 years old and nowhere near the Cubs’ clubhouse. In fact, he wouldn’t get in it for another 10 years. By then, was two teams further down his managerial career.

So not sure why Crane asked Baker. Might as well have asked me…

BN Reports

Per Passan’s report: the Cubs and Astros’ front offices were agreement at the deadline to trade Contreras straight up for pitcher Jose Urquidy. It just had to get ownership approval. But Crane, leaning on input from Baker, spiked the deal.

Get this jaw-dropping quote from Baker: “Much as I like Willson Contreras, Urquidy was one of our best pitchers then,” Baker said. “I needed a guy that wasn’t going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that’s tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody’s about numbers and stuff, and I can’t blame them, no doubt. But that’s not what we needed.”

[moonslav59]

The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

Yes, but this is not to say the pen is okay, as is. I don't think anyone thinks that.

I do think, and this may be a big if, if Whitlock & Houck stay in the pen, it might not be as bad as many think it is. We'd still need to replace Strahm and hope Barnes, Schreiber and maybe Taylor or Kelly/German come through, but to me, SS, RF and maybe SP'ing are higher need areas. All are high need, but some are higher than others.

I'm not sure why my position is so "extreme."

[Old Red]

The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

Bogey is the best option for SS, and nobody on the present roster is as good an option for the closer.

[Old Red]

Yes, but this is not to say the pen is okay, as is. I don't think anyone thinks that.

I do think, and this may be a big if, if Whitlock & Houck stay in the pen, it might not be as bad as many think it is. We'd still need to replace Strahm and hope Barnes, Schreiber and maybe Taylor or Kelly/German come through, but to me, SS, RF and maybe SP'ing are higher need areas. All are high need, but some are higher than others.

I'm not sure why my position is so "extreme."

Who said your point was so extreme? Quick answer is NOBODY. You just don’t like others, and their opinion that the BP, and closer is the #1 need.

[Old Red]

It's not throwing out extremes. They are near the top of the depth chart, as of now. That's how bad SS and corner OF is.

Soxprospects.com has Downs in the 1 slot at SS, Refsnyder #1 in RF and Duran in the #2 slot in CF. Of course, nobody expects them to be there on opening day, but that is precisely why those positions are our highest need areas, along with SP'er, where sure enough, they have Winckowski at the 5 slot before any additions.

Yes, I provide evidence to support my position, and yes, who we have at SS, RF and SP looks extremely bad.

I have also never said we don't have a high priority with the pen, as well. I've said, several times, we need at minimum 2 solid RP'er or 3-4 good ones. No, I don't think the pen is the number one high need area, but it still is in need of significant fixing.

A lot will depend on where we slot Whitlock and Houck. If they both will start, I'd move the pen above the rotation on my own personal priority list.

I guess posters should not be allowed to defend their positions, anymore.

If Soxprospects.com has Jeter Downs being in the #1slot at SS anywhere I wouldn’t put any faith in them at all for anything.

[notin]

Bogey is the best option for SS, and nobody on the present roster is as good an option for the closer.

Bogaerts is not on the team. He opted out yesterday.

He officially became a free agent…

[Old Red]

Bogaerts is not on the team. He opted out yesterday…

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

[moonslav59]

Who said your point was so extreme? Quick answer is NOBODY. You just don’t like others, and their opinion that the BP is the #1 need.

I "don't like others?" lmao.

I disagree with their opinions.

Personally, I'd have Arroyo at SS before Downs, but our current depth chart is what it is. We have a serious need at SS.

we could put Kike there, but then we have a serious need in CF.

Who do you have slotted at 2B, SS, LF, CF, RF, right now- before any additions? (Here, I'll throw you some bones...)

I might say:
2B Story
SS Arroyo (or flip him with Story)
LF Dugo
CF Kike
RF Refsnyder
No Downs or Duran, but both would be high up on the depth chart at SS/2B (Downs) and LF/CF (Duran). I don't like it. I hope both are traded, this winter, but it is what it is.

Maybe put EValdez ahead of Downs at 2B and force Story to play SS. That's okay. Some might call that extreme.

Maybe rush Rafaela to an OF slot or try Dalbec in LF.

Let us know your chosen depth chart, as of now.

(I doubt you give specifics. You like to avoid those.)

[moonslav59]

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

You really don't get it.

The depth chart is who you have, now.

We all want to add a SS. Saying Bogey is the best option sounds a lot like you think he's a very high priority- perhaps even number one. You've often said the whole off season starts with the Bogey decision, yet when I say SS is the number one priority, you jump down my throat and accuse me of disliking those who think the pen is first.

[notin]

BN Reports

Per Passan’s report: the Cubs and Astros’ front offices were agreement at the deadline to trade Contreras straight up for pitcher Jose Urquidy. It just had to get ownership approval. But Crane, leaning on input from Baker, spiked the deal.

Get this jaw-dropping quote from Baker: “Much as I like Willson Contreras, Urquidy was one of our best pitchers then,” Baker said. “I needed a guy that wasn’t going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that’s tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody’s about numbers and stuff, and I can’t blame them, no doubt. But that’s not what we needed.”

So Baker nixed Contreras because he assumed he’d complain a lot?

The only takeaway I get is Baker basically nixed the deal because he wanted a backup catcher and didn’t think Contreras wanted that role. That means little to the Sox…

[notin]

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

He’s a better option than Correa and Turner?

[notin]

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

Not to mention, moonslav was listing the weakest spots a top the Sox current depth chart.

Jeter Downs is the top of the SS depth chart. Know why? MAYBE BECAUSE SS IS THE BIGGEST NEED!!

You really tried to discredit Soxprosoects for pointing out Downs is currently atop the Sox depth chart? Who else? Bogaerts can’t take over that spot until he gets signed…

[Old Red]

Not to mention, moonslav was listing the weakest spots a top the Sox current depth chart.

Jeter Downs is the top of the SS depth chart. Know why? MAYBE BECAUSE SS IS THE BIGGEST NEED!!

You really tried to discredit Soxprosoects for pointing out Downs is currently atop the Sox depth chart? Who else? Bogaerts can’t take over that spot until he gets signed…
Jeter Downs shouldn’t even be in Worcester let alone on any depth chart on the big league club.

[Old Red]

He’s a better option than Correa and Turner?

My opinion is yes. Bogey is proven, and proven in Boston, and yes in my opinion that means something.

[notin]

Jeter Downs shouldn’t even be in Worcester let alone on any depth chart on the big league club.

And yet he’s atop the current Sox shortstop depth chart. Unless you can name a player currently higher…

[notin]

My opinion is yes. Bogey is proven, and proven in Boston, and yes in my opinion that means something.

He’d be a better option if he wasn’t aging and weak defensively.

If Bogaerts would move to LF or 3b at some point, I’d like him better. Not sure if he still has that “I’m not moving off shortstop” attitude…

[Old Red]

You really don't get it.

The depth chart is who you have, now.

We all want to add a SS. Saying Bogey is the best option sounds a lot like you think he's a very high priority- perhaps even number one. You've often said the whole off season starts with the Bogey decision, yet when I say SS is the number one priority, you jump down my throat and accuse me of disliking those who think the pen is first.
I fully understand what a depth chart is, and at the moment the depth chart doesn’t mean a tinkers damm. Like I’ve said numerous times before the Bogey situation one way, or the other should have been cleared up long ago, but Bloom is still looking for that third option in the fork in the road like he was at the trade deadline. Shit, or get off the pot. Letting Bogey getting to FA is just upping the price, which I think is what the Sox wants. Their actions speaks louder than words. All PR, and lip service.

[Old Red]

And yet he’s atop the current Sox shortstop depth chart. Unless you can name a player currently higher…

Story, Kike, or Arroyo would play there first, so that just shows the depth chart is useless.

[Old Red]

He’d be a better option if he wasn’t aging and weak defensively.

If Bogaerts would move to LF or 3b at some point, I’d like him better. Not sure if he still has that “I’m not moving off shortstop” attitude…
Nothing wrong in my opinion at the present time with Bogey having the I’m not moving off SS attitude. He is still good enough to play D at SS. I know other posters were complaining about it last offseason, but so be it.

[moonslav59]

Story, Kike, or Arroyo would play there first, so that just shows the depth chart is useless.

So, Sale, Bello and Pivetta can move to the pen, so the pen depth chart is useless, too?

[notin]

Story, Kike, or Arroyo would play there first, so that just shows the depth chart is useless.

Then who plays 2b or CF? The point is there’s some voids.

Of course arguing over which is the top priority is kind of stupid since they’ll all get addressed as best they can.

[moonslav59]

Then who plays 2b or CF? The point is there’s some voids.

Of course arguing over which is the top priority is kind of stupid since they’ll all get addressed as best they can.

Exaactly. We are almost 100%- certain to add at all 4 high need areas: SS, RF, SP, RP.

I just attempted to order them by highest need based on my opinion on what areas were worse off.

There is some gray area, because we don't know where Whitlock will be slotted, and we don't know about Houck's health or role. If both are placed in the pen, I'd say the other 3 areas are clearly worse off, right now.

Sure, we can move Kike or Story to SS and create another high need area where they vacate.

Sure, we could move Dugo to RF and open up a hole in LF.

[Old Red]

So, Sale, Bello and Pivetta can move to the pen, so the pen depth chart is useless, too?

Another extreme scenario. Comparing this scenario to Jeter Downs in any scenario is totally useless. That I agree.

[Old Red]

Exaactly. We are almost 100%- certain to add at all 4 high need areas: SS, RF, SP, RP.

I just attempted to order them by highest need based on my opinion on what areas were worse off.

There is some gray area, because we don't know where Whitlock will be slotted, and we don't know about Houck's health or role. If both are placed in the pen, I'd say the other 3 areas are clearly worse off, right now.

Sure, we can move Kike or Story to SS and create another high need area where they vacate.

Sure, we could move Dugo to RF and open up a hole in LF.


Amazing that I haven’t heard Cora, or Bloom say that Story would not be a option to play SS this coming year if the situation arises like he did this past year, so when you say We are almost 100%-certain to add to SS where is that information coming from? Someone’s opinion is far from a almost 100% certainly.

[Old Red]

Then who plays 2b or CF? The point is there’s some voids.

Of course arguing over which is the top priority is kind of stupid since they’ll all get addressed as best they can.

Top priority will get addressed as best they can sounds more like wishful thinking to me with Bloom making those decisions. The fact that the Bogey situation hasn’t been decided one way, or the other by now in my opinion doesn’t give much hope. Bloom’s best might not be someone else’s best.

[notin]

Top priority will get addressed as best they can sounds more like wishful thinking to me with Bloom making those decisions. The fact that the Bogey situation hasn’t been decided one way, or the other by now in my opinion doesn’t give much hope. Bloom’s best might not be someone else’s best.

Yes we get you don’t like his moves. You told us as much all the way through the ALCS 2 years ago…

[moonslav59]

Another extreme scenario. Comparing this scenario to Jeter Downs in any scenario is totally useless. That I agree.

Tell us, before any additions are made, who plays

2B
SS
LF
CF
RF

No, you can't have Story at 2B and SS or Kike in CF or 2B/SS.

Again, I'm not saying I'd start Downs. I'd have Arroyo at 2B or SS, if he's healthy, but Downs is up on the depth chart, whether we want him to be or not. It's not a useless thing to do to look at one's depth chart to determine which areas are the highest need.

We need a SS badly.

We need a corner OF'er badly.

We need a SP'er badly.

We need pen help badly.

In what order is personal preference. I am fine with different opinions, but when I state mine, I give my reasons, and they are not "extreme."

[Old Red]

Yes we get you don’t like his moves. You told us as much all the way through the ALCS 2 years ago…

And this past year it got us a losing record, and a last place in the Div finish.

[moonslav59]

Amazing that I haven’t heard Cora, or Bloom say that Story would not be a option to play SS this coming year if the situation arises like he did this past year, so when you say We are almost 100%-certain to add to SS where is that information coming from? Someone’s opinion is far from a almost 100% certainly.

You are all over the map.

Of course, opinions are based on assumptions. I never said it was a fact we'd sign a SS not a 2Bman. I'm giving my opinion, just like you stated your opinion that that the B ogey decision was going to be the first one. Did Cora or Bloom say that?

Stop acting like everyone else giving their opinions is like they are claiming it's 100% fact. It's more strawman construction by you, as always.

We have Kike and Story as the only two players we can expect will be starters to begin the season, barring injuries. Story can play 2B & SS and Kike can play CF, 2B & SS. That's 2 players for 3 positions. We have a great need at the third one. It's my opinion that 3rd position will be SS, but it is not a certainty. I didn't think I had to put a qualifier after every opinion I state, convincing you that it's just my opinion and not a stated fact.

Geeesh!

[moonslav59]

And this past year it got us a losing record, and a last place in the Div finish.

The past is the past, someone once said on this site.

2021 is the past, too.

[Old Red]

Tell us, before any additions are made, who plays

2B
SS
LF
CF
RF

No, you can't have Story at 2B and SS or Kike in CF or 2B/SS.

Again, I'm not saying I'd start Downs. I'd have Arroyo at 2B or SS, if he's healthy, but Downs is up on the depth chart, whether we want him to be or not. It's not a useless thing to do to look at one's depth chart to determine which areas are the highest need.

We need a SS badly.

We need a corner OF'er badly.

We need a SP'er badly.

We need pen help badly.

In what order is personal preference. I am fine with different opinions, but when I state mine, I give my reasons, and they are not "extreme."

To say who plays these positions before any additions are made is a useless game just like any depth charts are useless also. I’ve already stated many times since last offseason what the biggest need is, so why keep playing the game back, and forth? It’s already been answered. You led the league in scenarios, and that’s fine for you, but if you have to look at a depth chart to tell you what the biggest needs are you are in trouble to begin with, and I hope Bloom is not doing that. Being hung up on Jeter Downs will get you nowhere.

[Old Red]

[QUOTE=moonslav59;1505197]You are all over the map.

Of course, opinions are based on assumptions. I never said it was a fact we'd sign a SS not a 2Bman. I'm giving my opinion, just like you stated your opinion that that the B ogey decision was going to be the first one. Did Cora or Bloom say that?

Stop acting like everyone else giving their opinions is like they are claiming it's 100% fact. It's more strawman construction by you, as always.

We have Kike and Story as the only two players we can expect will be starters to begin the season, barring injuries. Story can play 2B & SS and Kike can play CF, 2B & SS. That's 2 players for 3 positions. We have a great need at the third one. It's my opinion that 3rd position will be SS, but it is not a certainty. I didn't think I had to put a qualifier after every opinion I state, convincing you that it's just my opinion and not a stated fact.

Geeesh![/QUOT
Geeesh is nothing is almost a 100% certainly. If Cora has not said Story will not play SS how can that be a almost 100% certainly that they will sign a SS? All over the map? Like I said you lead the league in scenarios. This all started once again with you not liking the opinion that the BP, and closer was the biggest need. I get all your points on why it shouldn’t be, but we just disagree, and that’s the way it will stay.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Who says the Sox HAVE to sign a SS? They don't have to do anything. It's a highly intelligent and logical argument that they will.

Storys decline in arm strength (perhaps overblown), and the Sox repetitive talk of him staying at 2nd, and their talk of prioritizing Bogaerts makes it abundantly clear they're targeting a SS.

Every GM realizes there are 29 other teams doing the same thing. If you have a plan A and no other plan you're not doing your job. I'm sure there's a scenario where they sign Jurickson Profar to play 2nd and move Story over to SS. But that's probably Plan E or F at this point. Plan A,B,C,D is likely Bogaerts, Correa, Turner, Swanson.

Story could very well end up playing SS in 2023. But does anyone actually think this is likely?????

[Old Red]

Who says the Sox HAVE to sign a SS? They don't have to do anything. It's a highly intelligent and logical argument that they will.

Storys decline in arm strength (perhaps overblown), and the Sox repetitive talk of him staying at 2nd, and their talk of prioritizing Bogaerts makes it abundantly clear they're targeting a SS.

Every GM realizes there are 29 other teams doing the same thing. If you have a plan A and no other plan you're not doing your job. I'm sure there's a scenario where they sign Jurickson Profar to play 2nd and move Story over to SS. But that's probably Plan E or F at this point. Plan A,B,C,D is likely Bogaerts, Correa, Turner, Swanson.

Story could very well end up playing SS in 2023. But does anyone actually think this is likely?????
Saying they are prioritizing Bogey to me has nothing to do with Story,, or the fact that Bogey plays SS, but the fact that Bogey is, and has been an important piece to the organization, and it wouldn’t matter if Bogey played LF he would still be a priority in resigning him.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Saying they are prioritizing Bogey to me has nothing to do with Story,, or the fact that Bogey plays SS, but the fact that Bogey is, and has been an important piece to the organization, and it wouldn’t matter if Bogey played LF he would still be a priority in resigning him.

lol, so the Sox resigning Bogey has nothing to do with Story playing SS. Then why didn't Story play SS in 2022? riddle me that.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

And this past year it got us a losing record, and a last place in the Div finish.

Ironically with many of the same guys who got us to the ALCS on the DL.

We need a GM who can predict future DL stints!!!!!!! Who is he????? Where is he?????

[Old Red]

lol, so the Sox resigning Bogey has nothing to do with Story playing SS. Then why didn't Story play SS in 2022? riddle me that.

I’ve already said my opinion on why the Red Sox say they are prioritizing signing Bogey. Personally I just think it is lip service, and PR, but we’ll see. Why didn’t Story play SS this past year? Really? I didn’t ask Cora, or Bloom, but I’ll take a wild guess, and say they already have a SS.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I’ve already said my opinion on why the Red Sox say they are prioritizing signing Bogey. Personally I just think it is lip service, and PR, but we’ll see. Why didn’t Story play SS this past year? Really? I didn’t ask Cora, or Bloom, but I’ll take a wild guess, and say they already have a SS.

ding ding ding ding ding. So you assume Story moves over to SS and they sign a 2nd baseman?

WHy? the FA class for short stops is 10000X better than second baseman PLUS it's been said over and over again Story's arm is best suited for 2nd now. I don't think it's out of question Story plays SS in 2023, but it's so unlikely, its not really worth the discussion. IDK, If i had to guess, I'd say it's maybe a 2% chance. How likely do you think its?

And if he does move to SS, who plays second?

[Old Red]

ding ding ding ding ding. So you assume Story moves over to SS and they sign a 2nd baseman?

WHy? the FA class for short stops is 10000X better than second baseman PLUS it's been said over and over again Story's arm is best suited for 2nd now. I don't think it's out of question Story plays SS in 2023, but it's so unlikely, its not really worth the discussion. IDK, If i had to guess, I'd say it's maybe a 2% chance. How likely do you think its?

And if he does move to SS, who plays second?
Where does it say I assumed? The assumption has been on here that Story will play 2B, and the Red Sox will sign a SS, so ding, ding,ding, ding, ding all I said was I haven’t heard Cora, or Bloom say Story would be staying at 2B. Who would play 2B would be determined later just like who would be playing SS. The Rangers signed 2 SS last year, so who knows, but no assumption was made by me, but raised a question.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Where does it say I assumed? The assumption has been on here that Story will play 2B, and the Red Sox will sign a SS, so ding, ding,ding, ding, ding all I said was I haven’t heard Cora, or Bloom say Story would be staying at 2B. Who would play 2B would be determined later just like who would be playing SS. The Rangers signed 2 SS last year, so who knows, but no assumption was made by me, but raised a question.

So seriously question, how likely is it that Story plays SS next year in your opinion? and if so who replaces him at 2nd?

[Old Red]

So seriously question, how likely is it that Story plays SS next year in your opinion? and if so who replaces him at 2nd?

I’m not into assumptions there are plenty of others who like to do that. I don’t think Bogey will be back, but outside of that I’m not assuming, and the Red Sox have been quiet on the subject.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I’m not into assumptions there are plenty of others who like to do that. I don’t think Bogey will be back, but outside of that I’m not assuming, and the Red Sox have been quiet on the subject.

Quiet? they've said time and time again they want to bring him back. Perhaps that's just PR, but that's not Quiet. Others? well FA hasn't even started yet so what should we expect at this point?

The SS market is very robust this year. The Sox need up-the-middle players. It's a really really really good bet they're going to get one of the big four (which includes Bogey)

[Old Red]

Quiet? they've said time and time again they want to bring him back. Perhaps that's just PR, but that's not Quiet. Others? well FA hasn't even started yet so what should we expect at this point?

The SS market is very robust this year. The Sox need up-the-middle players. It's a really really really good bet they're going to get one of the big four (which includes Bogey)
Actions speak louder than words, and I’ve been saying that since the Red Sox made the offer to Bogey last offseason. The SS market may be robust, but will the Red Sox spend the money to get one?

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Actions speak louder than words, and I’ve been saying that since the Red Sox made the offer to Bogey last offseason. The SS market may be robust, but will the Red Sox spend the money to get one?

Yes

[moonslav59]

To say who plays these positions before any additions are made is a useless game just like any depth charts are useless also. I’ve already stated many times since last offseason what the biggest need is, so why keep playing the game back, and forth? It’s already been answered. You led the league in scenarios, and that’s fine for you, but if you have to look at a depth chart to tell you what the biggest needs are you are in trouble to begin with, and I hope Bloom is not doing that. Being hung up on Jeter Downs will get you nowhere.

I'm not hung up on Jeter Downs, and like it or not, depth charts are precisely what teams use to determine where their greatest needs are, and maybe which positions they feel more comfortable doing less to upgrade or just choosing to leave as is, for now..

You can play musical chairs with Story and Kike and pretend they can fill 3 positions at the same time, but the rest of us know we need a serious addition at SS, 2B or CF, wherever those 2 don't play. It's as important or more so than any other slot. I happen to think it is #1 with SP as #2, RF as #3 and the pen at #4, but it's just my opinion.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Jeter Downs is on the 40 man roster, and when the Sox had both Kike, Story, and Arroyo out they called up Downs for depth. So one can not like Downs but why would anyone build a Red Sox depth chart without putting Downs on it? That's called reality.

[Old Red]

I'm not hung up on Jeter Downs, and like it or not, depth charts are precisely what teams use to determine where their greatest needs are, and maybe which positions they feel more comfortable doing less to upgrade or just choosing to leave as is, for now..

You can play musical chairs with Story and Kike and pretend they can fill 3 positions at the same time, but the rest of us know we need a serious addition at SS, 2B or CF, wherever those 2 don't play. It's as important or more so than any other slot. I happen to think it is #1 with SP as #2, RF as #3 and the pen at #4, but it's just my opinion.

I don’t think Bloom is pouring over the depth chart, and thinking if Bogey leaves we have to get someone other than Jeter Downs to take his place. If he is Bloom is even worse off than I thought. Who said anything about Kike, and Story having to cover 3 positions? No one did just your take on things. If you read the article on yahoo/ sports they talk about the 2B/ SS possibilities.

[Old Red]

Jeter Downs is on the 40 man roster, and when the Sox had both Kike, Story, and Arroyo out they called up Downs for depth. So one can not like Downs but why would anyone build a Red Sox depth chart without putting Downs on it? That's called reality.

Reality would be Downs not be on the 40 man at all.

[notin]

Reality would be Downs not be on the 40 man at all.

He is today. Check again in February and he probably won’t be.

Not sure how many are ahead of him in the DFA Queue. And I apparently can’t guess because I would have thought Ort was ahead of Bazardo…

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Bloom is pouring over the depth chart, and thinking if Bogey leaves we have to get someone other than Jeter Downs to take his place. If he is Bloom is even worse off than I thought. Who said anything about Kike, and Story having to cover 3 positions? No one did just your take on things. If you read the article on yahoo/ sports they talk about the 2B/ SS possibilities.

He's not pouring over the current depth chart, because it is etched in his brain. He knows the high need areas, and I'm pretty sure the pen is in the top 4.

[moonslav59]

IWho said anything about Kike, and Story having to cover 3 positions?

You said Kike or Story could.

I answered that it does not stop another huge hole from opening that would then be a higher need area than the pen, so nothing is really solved, until we fill one of the 3 positions: SS/2B/CF.

You act like the problem is solved by moving Kike or Story.

I've said numerous times, I'm assuming we get a SS, but it's not certain. I've mentioned Wong at 2B, and you and others poo-poo'd the idea of Story playing SS. I mentioned Kike playing SS, but I feel he is better in CF.

It's you who can't accept my opinion, but then act like I'm the unaccepting one.

[moonslav59]

Reality would be Downs not be on the 40 man at all.

I wouldn't be upset, in the least, if we traded or DFA'd him.

Personally, I'd give him one more year in AAA. He's a decent defender. I would not want him listed at even the 3rd slot at any position on our depth chart by opening day. That is the major reason I have SS as my highest need area.

It is precisely because a guy like Downs is one of the few players on our 40 that can play SS that I rank SS as our #1 high need area.

[Old Red]

You said Kike or Story could.

I answered that it does not stop another huge hole from opening that would then be a higher need area than the pen, so nothing is really solved, until we fill one of the 3 positions: SS/2B/CF.

You act like the problem is solved by moving Kike or Story.

I've said numerous times, I'm assuming we get a SS, but it's not certain. I've mentioned Wong at 2B, and you and others poo-poo'd the idea of Story playing SS. I mentioned Kike playing SS, but I feel he is better in CF.

It's you who can't accept my opinion, but then act like I'm the unaccepting one.

I said Kike, and Story could cover 3 positions? I also fully understand that if Kike comes into the IF where he would rather be that would mean the Red Sox would need 2 OF instead of 1. That is common sense. If Bloom is as good as you think he is he should be able via either trade or FA be able to handle that. You make it sound like it would be harder to get another OF than to get another SS. It’s not a question of accepting your opinion, but just disagreeing with it.

[Old Red]

He's not pouring over the current depth chart, because it is etched in his brain. He knows the high need areas, and I'm pretty sure the pen is in the top 4.

That is comforting to know that Bloom has something etched in his brain. Must have had JBJ etched in his brain last year, because of the depth chart.

[moonslav59]

I said Kike, and Story could cover 3 positions? I also fully understand that if Kike comes into the IF where he would rather be that would mean the Red Sox would need 2 OF instead of 1. That is common sense. If Bloom is as good as you think he is he should be able via either trade or FA be able to handle that. You make it sound like it would be harder to get another OF than to get another SS. It’s not a question of accepting your opinion, but just disagreeing with it.

No shit.

We all know we will fill at least these 4 slots, somehow- someway, even if it means shifting someone around.

You took issue with the order or the way I determined my order of priorities by basing it on what we had already. You called listing who we had already "extreme" and said I did not like people who disagreed with me.

Now, you claim I am sounding like it's harder to get an OF'er than a SS. What planet do you live on and what language do you speak?

(Don't answer. It's called a rhetorical question. Look it up in your English-Martian dictionary.)

[Old Red]

No shit.

We all know we will fill at least these 4 slots, somehow- someway, even if it means shifting someone around.

You took issue with the order or the way I determined my order of priorities by basing it on what we had already. You called listing who we had already "extreme" and said I did not like people who disagreed with me.

Now, you claim I am sounding like it's harder to get an OF'er than a SS. What planet do you live on and what language do you speak?

(Don't answer. It's called a rhetorical question. Look it up in your English-Martian dictionary.)

I certainly don’t live on planet Moon, and nor would I want to.

[Bellhorn04]

Paxton is exercising his player option, so add $4 mill to the payroll and pray for his health.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Reality would be Downs not be on the 40 man at all.

It's not like he's on the 25 man, he was a young talented prospect who provided up-the-middle depth. At this point, yeah, his days may be numbered. But how good is the 38th-40th guy on ANY teams 40 man?

[Old Red]

It's not like he's on the 25 man, he was a young talented prospect who provided up-the-middle depth. At this point, yeah, his days may be numbered. But how good is the 38th-40th guy on ANY teams 40 man?

This guy can’t even hit AAA pitching.

[moonslav59]

It's not like he's on the 25 man, he was a young talented prospect who provided up-the-middle depth. At this point, yeah, his days may be numbered. But how good is the 38th-40th guy on ANY teams 40 man?

IMO, he would be claimed by many teams, if DFA'd, but I'd be fine seeing someone else on the 40.

Chang v Downs? I'd go with Downs.

[moonslav59]

Paxton is exercising his player option, so add $4 mill to the payroll and pray for his health.

I didn't think he'd take the $4M. Maybe he'll be next year's Martiz Perez.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't be upset, in the least, if we traded or DFA'd him.

Personally, I'd give him one more year in AAA. He's a decent defender. I would not want him listed at even the 3rd slot at any position on our depth chart by opening day. That is the major reason I have SS as my highest need area.

It is precisely because a guy like Downs is one of the few players on our 40 that can play SS that I rank SS as our #1 high need area.

Just because he’s here doesn’t make him a good option for anything.

[notin]

Just because he’s here doesn’t make him a good option for anything.

Downs looks like his ceiling is utility infielder.

The only reason he’s getting any mention is Soxprospects put him atop their SS depth chart, which doesn’t mean much. They did it because he’s here and on the 40 man, not because anyone - including the writers at Soxprospects - believes he will be the opening day shortstop. And it’s not like that website has any connection to the team; they’re independent and completely unaffiliated with the Sox. They also have starting lineups for the next few seasons, all of which only use players within the organization. They’re not trying to predict anything, but what they are doing is showing gaps. And right now, the Sox have one at shortstop.

And since no borderline sane person thinks Downs will start this year, what you can glean from this depth chart is the Sox clearly need a SS right now. They might move someone like Kike or Story there. Or they might sign a big name free agent or trade for a stopgap player to bridge to Mayer.

But they’re clearly going to do something. As for priority, Bloom did say multiple times Bogaerts is his top priority…

[notin]

Sox trade Easton McGee for cash.

It opens up a 40 man roster spot, but probably not much else…

[moonslav59]

Just because he’s here doesn’t make him a good option for anything.

True nuff.

I'm trying to see some bright sides, right now.

[harmony]

I didn't think he'd take the $4M. Maybe he'll be next year's Martiz Perez.
Perhaps James Paxton knows his health better than we do as the Scott Boras client settles for $4 million.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps James Paxton knows his health better than we do as the Scott Boras client settles for $4 million.

Seems that way.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

This guy can’t even hit AAA pitching.

Yes, a lot of guys can't hit AAA pitching. THere's a whole slew of guys who can't and then figure it out and become big-league players. Downs has been around long enough to start thinking that may never happen with him but up until recently his spot on the 40 man was perfectly justified. There's literally a Jeter Downs type guy on every 40 man. If the Sox release Downs, and they probably will at some point someone is going to pick him up. As crappy as he is, he can field his position at SS and 2nd and last time I (checks notes) checked you actually need guys to play defense too. Your 40th man on the 40 man isnt' someone good enough to be a MLB player. He's someone who can come up and field the position while a guy is banged up. Sometimes guys like Downs come into their own, sometimes they do not. But you're literally complaining about the guy who may very well be the 40th man on our 40 man right now.

How many teams have a better 40th man? Count. I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

uh oh looks like the bloom crew is in town haha

[Old Red]

Yes, a lot of guys can't hit AAA pitching. THere's a whole slew of guys who can't and then figure it out and become big-league players. Downs has been around long enough to start thinking that may never happen with him but up until recently his spot on the 40 man was perfectly justified. There's literally a Jeter Downs type guy on every 40 man. If the Sox release Downs, and they probably will at some point someone is going to pick him up. As crappy as he is, he can field his position at SS and 2nd and last time I (checks notes) checked you actually need guys to play defense too. Your 40th man on the 40 man isnt' someone good enough to be a MLB player. He's someone who can come up and field the position while a guy is banged up. Sometimes guys like Downs come into their own, sometimes they do not. But you're literally complaining about the guy who may very well be the 40th man on our 40 man right now.

How many teams have a better 40th man? Count. I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.
Seems like Downs is getting way to much ink for the 40th man, but to each it’s own.

[Old Red]

The Ref Man has signed for $1.2M.

[Bellhorn04]

The Ref Man has signed for $1.2M.

Now that's a bargain!

[mvp 78]

Seems like Downs is getting way to much ink for the 40th man, but to each it’s own.

Not the 40th man, unfortunately.

[Bellhorn04]

Man, Paxton and Ref for 5.2 mill in one day. This might be Bloom's best day of the whole offseason! :D

[Old Red]

Not the 40th man, unfortunately.

Very true that is.

[moonslav59]

Yes, a lot of guys can't hit AAA pitching. THere's a whole slew of guys who can't and then figure it out and become big-league players. Downs has been around long enough to start thinking that may never happen with him but up until recently his spot on the 40 man was perfectly justified. There's literally a Jeter Downs type guy on every 40 man. If the Sox release Downs, and they probably will at some point someone is going to pick him up. As crappy as he is, he can field his position at SS and 2nd and last time I (checks notes) checked you actually need guys to play defense too. Your 40th man on the 40 man isnt' someone good enough to be a MLB player. He's someone who can come up and field the position while a guy is banged up. Sometimes guys like Downs come into their own, sometimes they do not. But you're literally complaining about the guy who may very well be the 40th man on our 40 man right now.

How many teams have a better 40th man? Count. I'll wait. But I won't hold my breath.

The thing is, he's not the 40th.

He did show slight improvement on O, this year, but his time here should be short.

[moonslav59]

Man, Paxton and Ref for 5.2 mill in one day. This might be Bloom's best day of the whole offseason! :D

You troll!

:rolleyes:

[moonslav59]

Updated:

The 2023 Red Sox Budget
We have no way of knowing, if the Sox will reset the tax budget this year or in 2024, but the pattern seems to indicate it will happen, next year or the one after.

Here are the tax numbers (AAV) in $millions:

25.6 Sale
23.3 Story
10.0 Kike
9.4 Barnes
4.7 Whitlock
4.0 Paxton
1.2 Refsnyder
(78.0 sub total)

Arb Estimates:
16.5 Devers
5.5 Verdugo
5.3 Pivetta
3.0 Arroyo
2.5 Brasier (non tendered?)
2.1 McGuire
1.1 Taylor (if not healthy, non tendered?)
1.0 Cordero (non tendered?)
0.8 Chang (non tendered?)
(38.0 sub total)

6.0 0-3 yr players
1.7 0-3 yr bonus pool
2.3 40 man roster players in minors
16.5 player benefits
(17.5 sub total)

$134M Total Estimated

The tax line is $232M, so if the Sox spend right up to the line without going over, we'd have a winter AAV spending budget of about $97M with no non tenders.

[Bobe2]

Updated:

The 2023 Red Sox Budget
We have no way of knowing, if the Sox will reset the tax budget this year or in 2024, but the pattern seems to indicate it will happen, next year or the one after.

Here are the tax numbers (AAV) in $millions:

25.6 Sale
23.3 Story
10.0 Kike
9.4 Barnes
4.7 Whitlock
4.0 Paxton
1.2 Refsnyder
(78.0 sub total)

Arb Estimates:
16.5 Devers
5.5 Verdugo
5.3 Pivetta
3.0 Arroyo
2.5 Brasier (non tendered?)
2.1 McGuire
1.1 Taylor (if not healthy, non tendered?)
1.0 Cordero (non tendered?)
0.8 Chang (non tendered?)
(38.0 sub total)

6.0 0-3 yr players
1.7 0-3 yr bonus pool
2.3 40 man roster players in minors
16.5 player benefits
(17.5 sub total)

$134M Total Estimated

The tax line is $232M, so if the Sox spend right up to the line without going over, we'd have a winter AAV spending budget of about $97M with no non tenders.
It would make the most sense to reset this year, otherwise the tax next year for being over goes to 30% and then 50% of amount over cap and we’re back to where we started, give some of the young players a chance to show what they can do next season and have another year to mature and the tax would be reset, that way they would have a better idea as to what positions the young guys can fill and what needs to be filled by other means then they would be in a better position to resign Devers and be able to really spend big on their other needs, keeping this in mind this year I would try to sign good players to short term contracts (guys not given qualifying offers) that you want to re-sign maybe even splurge on a pitcher Rodon might be a nice choice anyway that’s just what I would do

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

It would make the most sense to reset this year, otherwise the tax next year for being over goes to 30% and then 50% of amount over cap and we’re back to where we started, give some of the young players a chance to show what they can do next season and have another year to mature and the tax would be reset, that way they would have a better idea as to what positions the young guys can fill and what needs to be filled by other means then they would be in a better position to resign Devers and be able to really spend big on their other needs, keeping this in mind this year I would try to sign good players to short term contracts (guys not given qualifying offers) that you want to re-sign maybe even splurge on a pitcher Rodon might be a nice choice anyway that’s just what I would do

If they let Devers become a free agent, a year from now will be a rerun of the same pretensions they're now spewing about Bogaerts, as he heads out the door.

Where is the love? Somewhere warmer...

[Bobe2]

If they let Devers become a free agent, a year from now will be a rerun of the same pretensions they're now spewing about Bogaerts, as he heads out the door.

Where is the love? Somewhere warmer...

I doubt that they sign him now to an extension now, he might not even want to be here anymore, his close group of friends all left this year Vasquez, JD, and Xander, anyway the Sox will be in a better financial position at the end of 2023 season but that’s no guarantee that they’ll offer him the money he wants

[Bellhorn04]

If they let Devers become a free agent, a year from now will be a rerun of the same pretensions they're now spewing about Bogaerts, as he heads out the door.

With one difference. If they let Bogaerts go, and don't sign Devers to an extension before the season, everyone will KNOW he's gone, so the pretensions would be utterly pointless.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Seems like Downs is getting way to much ink for the 40th man, but to each it’s own.

You are literally the one who started complaining and talking about him. Because Moon listed him on the depth chart.....because he is on the depth chart.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

People do realize that it is and has been a given Devers is going to free agency?

Some guys chose to bet on themselves, and unless you dangle absurd money they don't sign extensions. Some guys take the guaranteed money earlier in their careers. It shouldn't be hard to understand that professional athletes of this talent level can have that bet-on-themselves mentality. Xander took the deal, well the first time at least, it still bought the Sox a few extra of his best years. Devers did not. At this point, you either HAVE to give him his demands or wait for him to hit free agency and match. So with that said, any proposed extension that is less than 300/10 at this point shouldn't even be talked about or considered a serious comment in here. That's the Devers price tag right now.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

It would make the most sense to reset this year, otherwise the tax next year for being over goes to 30% and then 50% of amount over cap and we’re back to where we started, give some of the young players a chance to show what they can do next season and have another year to mature and the tax would be reset, that way they would have a better idea as to what positions the young guys can fill and what needs to be filled by other means then they would be in a better position to resign Devers and be able to really spend big on their other needs, keeping this in mind this year I would try to sign good players to short term contracts (guys not given qualifying offers) that you want to re-sign maybe even splurge on a pitcher Rodon might be a nice choice anyway that’s just what I would do

50% of 20 million is an extra 10 million tops. That's a nice chunk of change, but it's not the real deterrent from going over. You add in lose draft picks and then revenue-sharing rebates that are over a hundred million and that really kills it. But you're right. I think overall it does make more sense to reset this year. If they reset this year, they position themselves to go well over in 2024. That's also Sales last year on the books. Probably not the answer people want in here after finishing in last place.

[Bellhorn04]

People do realize that it is and has been a given Devers is going to free agency?

Some guys chose to bet on themselves, and unless you dangle absurd money they don't sign extensions.

Right, but how serious of an effort have the Sox made to sign Devers to an extension before now?

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Right, but how serious of an effort have the Sox made to sign Devers to an extension before now?

Probably as serious as they were with Bogaerts, Whitlock, Pedroia, and Barnes.....Some guys take the money, others do not.

[notin]

Right, but how serious of an effort have the Sox made to sign Devers to an extension before now?

$200million isn’t serious money?

[notin]

People do realize that it is and has been a given Devers is going to free agency?

Some guys chose to bet on themselves, and unless you dangle absurd money they don't sign extensions. Some guys take the guaranteed money earlier in their careers. It shouldn't be hard to understand that professional athletes of this talent level can have that bet-on-themselves mentality. Xander took the deal, well the first time at least, it still bought the Sox a few extra of his best years. Devers did not. At this point, you either HAVE to give him his demands or wait for him to hit free agency and match. So with that said, any proposed extension that is less than 300/10 at this point shouldn't even be talked about or considered a serious comment in here. That's the Devers price tag right now.

If Devers is not singable, he should be traded…

[moonslav59]

It would make the most sense to reset this year, otherwise the tax next year for being over goes to 30% and then 50% of amount over cap and we’re back to where we started, give some of the young players a chance to show what they can do next season and have another year to mature and the tax would be reset, that way they would have a better idea as to what positions the young guys can fill and what needs to be filled by other means then they would be in a better position to resign Devers and be able to really spend big on their other needs, keeping this in mind this year I would try to sign good players to short term contracts (guys not given qualifying offers) that you want to re-sign maybe even splurge on a pitcher Rodon might be a nice choice anyway that’s just what I would do

I agree that re-setting in 2023, not 2024, makes more sense, and we still can spend a lot, this winter and stay under the tax line.

When it comes to signing free agents, this winter, I see 5 major slots to fill: SP1 or 2, SS (assuming Story stays at 2B & Kike in CF), RF, RP, RP. Secondary priorities might be another pitcher, catcher and DH/1B. With over $90M to spend, we should see a major difference from the last 3 winters, where we had less money and more high need slots to fill. This, alone, should change what we should see.

If we assume the re-set comes in 2023, I'd think about setting these guidelines to FA signings:

1. Don't make signings based on the ETAs of Mayer (SS), Rafaela (CF, SS, 2B) and other top prospects. If we end up with a bottleneck at a couple positions, trades can help other areas out.

2. Any FA signing longer than 2 years should only be made, if we think the player will not be in serious decline from 2024 and beyond. In other words, avoid long term signings of anyone already at the point of decline or very near it.

3. Look to sign shorter term deals at higher AAV, so we aren't handcuffed in 2024 and 2025, when we are more likely to go "all in" or near "all in."

4. Focus most of our resources on the big 4 or 5 high need areas, and move away from the previous, but needed at the time, quantity vs quality mentality. We need a top SP'er, SS, RF'er and 2-3 solid pen arms. (One can be a SP'er, if Houck stays in the pen.)

I know these are mostly obvious overgeneralizations, but I'm hopeful we can build a solid 2023 team that looks poised to be even better in 2024, when the budget shackles can be removed.

[moonslav59]

I doubt that they sign him now to an extension now, he might not even want to be here anymore, his close group of friends all left this year Vasquez, JD, and Xander, anyway the Sox will be in a better financial position at the end of 2023 season but that’s no guarantee that they’ll offer him the money he wants

We can get him to sign an extension that begins in 2024, which may help us reset in 2023.

[moonslav59]

50% of 20 million is an extra 10 million tops. That's a nice chunk of change, but it's not the real deterrent from going over. You add in lose draft picks and then revenue-sharing rebates that are over a hundred million and that really kills it. But you're right. I think overall it does make more sense to reset this year. If they reset this year, they position themselves to go well over in 2024. That's also Sales last year on the books. Probably not the answer people want in here after finishing in last place.

...and they'll blame Bloom, if the budget is restricted, again. (This time, he will deserve criticism, if we fail, badly.)

One difference, this winter: we can reset and still spend over $90M, and we have less high need areas to fill than the last 3 winters, thanks in large part to the long-awaited infusion of young and cost effective players from the farm.

Bloom should be able to build a playoff team and reset, at the same time. This is his firepoint winter and may very well set his legacy in stone... good or bad.

[moonslav59]

Probably as serious as they were with Bogaerts, Whitlock, Pedroia, and Barnes.....Some guys take the money, others do not.

Yes, and personally, I don't see anything wrong with setting a top bar and not budging from it. The lowball offers to Lester and apparently Bogey seem more like outliers when compared to how many ex-Sox players who left to free agency or were traded right before free agency that ended up not doing all that well, afterwards.

That being said, I hope we make a final and fair offer to Bogey and Devers. If Devers says no, we should then tell him he may be traded.

I hope the comp pick is worth losing Bogey over, but we may end up signing Swanson for less, and maybe he does better going forward or the comp pick balances out losing Bogey and gaining our next SS.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

If Devers is not singable, he should be traded…

But what GM worth his Wong will give up anything decent "for just one year of Devers?"

Brusdar, I see you in the morning
Brusdar, asleepin next to me
Brusdar, let the memory of the evening
Be the first thing that you think of...

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

With one difference. If they let Bogaerts go, and don't sign Devers to an extension before the season, everyone will KNOW he's gone, so the pretensions would be utterly pointless.

... as they always are, with fans who don't snort between the lines.

And yet, Sam Kennedy will still be running for Speaker of the House.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

If Devers is not singable, he should be traded…

Eh, maybe. But how much will you get for ONE year of Devers? Not as much as you did for Mookie Betts. Maybe without the salary dump you come out ok, but I'd rather go for it with Devers next year, gamble, and make a run at the playoffs in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

$200million isn’t serious money?

No, you're right, it's serious money. At the same time it appears unrealistically light.

[moonslav59]

Eh, maybe. But how much will you get for ONE year of Devers? Not as much as you did for Mookie Betts. Maybe without the salary dump you come out ok, but I'd rather go for it with Devers next year, gamble, and make a run at the playoffs in 2023.

A trade is likely to get more than a measly comp pick.

[Bellhorn04]

A trade is likely to get more than a measly comp pick.

No question. But then you don't have Devers in your 2023 lineup.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

A trade is likely to get more than a measly comp pick.

Sox do well with those picks sometimes, also it's also about the draft pool money that gives you flexibility elsewhere. Plus lets not also forget one whole year of production from Devers.

[notin]

But what GM worth his Wong will give up anything decent "for just one year of Devers?"

Brusdar, I see you in the morning
Brusdar, asleepin next to me
Brusdar, let the memory of the evening
Be the first thing that you think of...

That’s the thing, too.

What team that feels 2023 is just one third baseman away? Like say. there was this hypothetical team that had made the postseason in 2022 and then declined the option on Justin Turner. Can you imagine that fallout!

“Bloom certainly can build a World Series Champ. Just look what he did for the Dodgers.”

[notin]

No, you're right, it's serious money. At the same time it appears unrealistically light.

Austin Riley felt it was serious money…

[moonslav59]

No question. But then you don't have Devers in your 2023 lineup.

I'd hate that. I'm all about "Devers Forevers," but I don't want what is happening to Bogey to happen again.

[Bellhorn04]

Austin Riley felt it was serious money…

Yep. Riley's contract bought out his 3 arb years. The offer to Devers was with 2 arb years left - now 1 left.

In theory Riley's deal should be a good comp for Devers.

[moonslav59]

Sox do well with those picks sometimes, also it's also about the draft pool money that gives you flexibility elsewhere. Plus lets not also forget one whole year of production from Devers.

"Those picks" used to be much higher than now.

[mvp 78]

...and they'll blame Bloom, if the budget is restricted, again. (This time, he will deserve criticism, if we fail, badly.)

One difference, this winter: we can reset and still spend over $90M, and we have less high need areas to fill than the last 3 winters, thanks in large part to the long-awaited infusion of young and cost effective players from the farm.

Bloom should be able to build a playoff team and reset, at the same time. This is his firepoint winter and may very well set his legacy in stone... good or bad.

They can spend 90+, but the question is on who? It's a BAD FA class. Re-sign Xander. Get Montero. OF options are not good. Hodgepodge of other relievers? I don't see them going after QO guys unless it's Turner/Correa/Judge. The QO to Bassitt takes him off the table IMO.

[mvp 78]

But what GM worth his Wong will give up anything decent "for just one year of Devers?"

Brusdar, I see you in the morning
Brusdar, asleepin next to me
Brusdar, let the memory of the evening
Be the first thing that you think of...

Again, it's a bad FA class. It could be a good year to deal a guy like Devers. There isn't a lot of good talent available. Maybe you could get a good haul? IDK. Sounds gross just to type it out.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

They can spend 90+, but the question is on who? It's a BAD FA class. Re-sign Xander. Get Montero. OF options are not good. Hodgepodge of other relievers? I don't see them going after QO guys unless it's Turner/Correa/Judge. The QO to Bassitt takes him off the table IMO.

Correa does not have a QO, so think like Bloom: we can replace Bogaerts with a younger Correa and get a draft pick for Xander signing elsewhere.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I'd hate that. I'm all about "Devers Forevers," but I don't want what is happening to Bogey to happen again.

True, but I think they lose international bonus pool money too.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Correa does not have a QO, so think like Bloom: we can replace Bogaerts with a younger Correa and get a draft pick for Xander signing elsewhere.

Supposedly Correa loved playing for Cora too. I wonder if he'd take 270/9 to play here.

[mvp 78]

Correa does not have a QO, so think like Bloom: we can replace Bogaerts with a younger Correa and get a draft pick for Xander signing elsewhere.

It just depends on how big the Correa contract would be. I think Correa is a great fit, especially defensively.

[moonslav59]

They can spend 90+, but the question is on who? It's a BAD FA class. Re-sign Xander. Get Montero. OF options are not good. Hodgepodge of other relievers? I don't see them going after QO guys unless it's Turner/Correa/Judge. The QO to Bassitt takes him off the table IMO.

This could be the year we make trades that involve taking on larger contracts. We could even take on a "dead money" contract along with a coveted player, so the return package would not need to be so great.

I agree, the FA market is not all that great, but there are other ways to spend the $90M and improve the roster.

[moonslav59]

Correa does not have a QO, so think like Bloom: we can replace Bogaerts with a younger Correa and get a draft pick for Xander signing elsewhere.

If we do go big splash, Correa makes the most sense. While bringing Bogey back would be great, it would not feel like a big splash, even thought it would be.

[moonslav59]

True, but I think they lose international bonus pool money too.

Who?

We can extend Devers, starting in year 2024, if needed, and not go over the tax line.

[mvp 78]

If we do go big splash, Correa makes the most sense. While bringing Bogey back would be great, it would not feel like a big splash, even thought it would be.

It wouldn't be a splash, but re-signing Bogey and extending Raffy would make fans happy.

[moonslav59]

It wouldn't be a splash, but re-signing Bogey and extending Raffy would make fans happy.

Indeed. I'd be very happy, as long as they weren't gross overpays.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Indeed. I'd be very happy, as long as they weren't gross overpays.

I'm ready for Devers' payday to get gross. Losing all the Red Sox top homegrown faces would really rot.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I'm ready for Devers' payday to get gross. Losing all the Red Sox top homegrown faces would really rot.

Here’s the problem with resigning both Bogey and Raffy. You had both of them this year and you still sucked.

Personally with the shift changes, I think we should go big with Correa, resign Raffy is you can or wait u til next year. After that, unless you land Nimmo, I hope all the focus is on pitching .

[Bellhorn04]

Here’s the problem with resigning both Bogey and Raffy. You had both of them this year and you still sucked.

That's not a problem. Without them we would have sucked much worse.

Their price tags? Yeah, that could be a problem.

[moonslav59]

I'm ready for Devers' payday to get gross. Losing all the Red Sox top homegrown faces would really rot.

That's why I say...

Devers Forevers

with no qualifiers.

[Bellhorn04]

That's why I say...

Devers Forevers

with no qualifiers.



Sorry man, but you did issue a qualifier, in post #166.

[moonslav59]

Sorry man, but you did issue a qualifier, in post #166.

That was sooooo long ago!

:p

[mvp 78]

I'm ready for Devers' payday to get gross. Losing all the Red Sox top homegrown faces would really rot.

It’d be the worst.

[moonslav59]

For argument's sake, what is worse?

Losing Devers (via trade)

Losing Devers (via free agency w comp pick)

Signing Devers to $300M/12

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

For argument's sake, what is worse?

Losing Devers (via trade)

Losing Devers (via free agency w comp pick)

Signing Devers to $300M/12

Trading Devers this winter would be the worst possible scenario for Boston and Red Sox fans. It would show -- yet again -- that the Sox are unwilling to pay fair market value to their homegrown stars, the faces of the franchise. It would also send the same message to all up-and-coming prospects, and to future free agents.

And to teammates in the clubhouse, dugouts and bullpens, it would confirm that management is unwilling to use its resources to provide them with the best possible support towards achieving the ultimate goal of a professional sports team: winning.

[moonslav59]

Trading Devers this winter would be the worst possible scenario for Boston and Red Sox fans. It would show -- yet again -- that the Sox are unwilling to pay fair market value to their homegrown stars, the faces of the franchise. It would also send the same message to all up-and-coming prospects, and to future free agents.

And to teammates in the clubhouse, dugouts and bullpens, it would confirm that management is unwilling to use its resources to provide them with the best possible support towards achieving the ultimate goal of a professional sports team: winning.

I think losing him for just a comp pick is worst.

Also, I'm not so sure about the clubhouse issue. The Astros let Springer and Correa go, because they would "not pay market value," and fans love the team.

Winning makes fans get over this type of thing.

I put $300M/12, but what if it's $360M/12 needed to keep him? How far can we go just to make a point to fans that we will keep our stars? If JH continues to reset every few years, a contract like that will really limit what the team can for over the next 12 years.

[Bellhorn04]

I think losing him for just a comp pick is worst.

Also, I'm not so sure about the clubhouse issue. The Astros let Springer and Correa go, because they would "not pay market value," and fans love the team.

Winning makes fans get over this type of thing.

I put $300M/12, but what if it's $360M/12 needed to keep him? How far can we go just to make a point to fans that we will keep our stars? If JH continues to reset every few years, a contract like that will really limit what the team can for over the next 12 years.

That sure doesn't sound like Devers Forevers!

[notin]

Trading Devers this winter would be the worst possible scenario for Boston and Red Sox fans. It would show -- yet again -- that the Sox are unwilling to pay fair market value to their homegrown stars, the faces of the franchise. It would also send the same message to all up-and-coming prospects, and to future free agents.

And to teammates in the clubhouse, dugouts and bullpens, it would confirm that management is unwilling to use its resources to provide them with the best possible support towards achieving the ultimate goal of a professional sports team: winning.

Who says the Sox are unwilling to pay FAIR market share?

Just because a player demands an exorbitant amount of money does NOT mean that’s a fair market price.

Why is is fair for the Sox to give more money to Devers than the younger, better Austin Riley got here?

[Bellhorn04]

Who says the Sox are unwilling to pay FAIR market share?

Just because a player demands an exorbitant amount of money does NOT mean that’s a fair market price.

Why is is fair for the Sox to give more money to Devers than the younger, better Austin Riley got here?

As I've said before, there's no such thing as fair market value with MLB free agents, because it doesn't operate like a normal market.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

I think losing him for just a comp pick is worst.

Also, I'm not so sure about the clubhouse issue. The Astros let Springer and Correa go, because they would "not pay market value," and fans love the team.

Winning makes fans get over this type of thing.

I put $300M/12, but what if it's $360M/12 needed to keep him? How far can we go just to make a point to fans that we will keep our stars? If JH continues to reset every few years, a contract like that will really limit what the team can for over the next 12 years.

A trade would presumably yield a better return than a comp pick, but it would also signal to Red Sox Nation that the team was giving up on resigning hometown hero Raffy Devers.

If they keep him for one more year and let him walk, at least they could pretend they were trying to sign him up until the bitter end.

Which scenario looks better to the public: pushing him out the door a year early, or him walking through it on his own?

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Who says the Sox are unwilling to pay FAIR market share?

Just because a player demands an exorbitant amount of money does NOT mean that’s a fair market price.

Why is is fair for the Sox to give more money to Devers than the younger, better Austin Riley got here?

But agents will insist that Anthony Rendon is a fair third baseman.

[notin]

A trade would presumably yield a better return than a comp pick, but it would also signal to Red Sox Nation that the team was giving up on resigning hometown hero Raffy Devers.

If they keep him for one more year and let him walk, at least they could pretend they were trying to sign him up until the bitter end.

Which scenario looks better to the public: pushing him out the door a year early, or him walking through it on his own?


The “PR” scenario really doesn’t generate the positive PR you think it does. When the Sox let Clemens walk away and continue to rack up Cy Young awards, was anyone thinking “at least the Sox tried”? Heck DD tried to extend Mookie and very likely went as high as he was allowed, but people STILL think the Sox should have made another useless offer for show…

[notin]

But agents will insist that Anthony Rendon is a fair third baseman.

Ok.

But Devers isn’t asking for 7 years $245 million. Not even close to it…

[Bellhorn04]

The “PR” scenario really doesn’t generate the positive PR you think it does. When the Sox let Clemens walk away and continue to rack up Cy Young awards, was anyone thinking “at least the Sox tried”? Heck DD tried to extend Mookie and very likely went as high as he was allowed, but people STILL think the Sox should have made another useless offer for show…

To be fair, what some people think is that the Sox should have had a more serious negotiation with Mookie, and they may be right.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

To be fair, what some people think is that the Sox should have had a more serious negotiation with Mookie, and they may be right.

Mookie is one of those people. In an interview I heard him say he just wanted what was fair.

[notin]

To be fair, what some people think is that the Sox should have had a more serious negotiation with Mookie, and they may be right.

Maybe.

From what I gathered at the time, Mookie was dessert on racing free agency. That it took 5 months, a cancelled spring training, and roughly 50-60 cancelled games before Mookie FINALLY actually signed an extension does not deter me from this line of thinking…

[notin]

Mookie is one of those people. In an interview I heard him say he just wanted what was fair.

He asked for $400million.

He was offered a $30mill AAV from Boston just like he has today…

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe.

From what I gathered at the time, Mookie was dessert on racing free agency.

So you were doing some really good 'shrooms at the time.

But seriously, even the idea was Mookie was intent on free agency is pure speculation. He did say he gave serious consideration to an earlier extension offer from the Sox.

[moonslav59]

That sure doesn't sound like Devers Forevers!

I'd still pull the trigger on Devers- just as I would have for Betts, but I am fully aware of the consequences.

(I doubt it would take $360M/12 to get Devers, though.)

[moonslav59]

Who says the Sox are unwilling to pay FAIR market share?

Just because a player demands an exorbitant amount of money does NOT mean that’s a fair market price.

Why is is fair for the Sox to give more money to Devers than the younger, better Austin Riley got here?

"Fair market value," to some posters, seems to be whatever the craziest GM ends up paying.

If Seager was our player, should we have matched the Rangers' offer, just to meet market value on our star?

Should we have paid market value to keep Pedro, Ellsbury and other former Sox stars?

[moonslav59]

A trade would presumably yield a better return than a comp pick, but it would also signal to Red Sox Nation that the team was giving up on resigning hometown hero Raffy Devers.

If they keep him for one more year and let him walk, at least they could pretend they were trying to sign him up until the bitter end.

Which scenario looks better to the public: pushing him out the door a year early, or him walking through it on his own?

Why is looking better to the public your top criteria?

I want what is best for the team, and if we know Devers will walk, I'd prefer we trade him rather than get one more year out of him and watch him walk for a comp pick that is not what it used to be.

Both options suck, and maybe even extending him will suck, too, in the long run.

If we had a farm like the Astros, maybe we'd be able to stomach losing top stars like their fans do.

[Old Red]

Why is looking better to the public your top criteria?

I want what is best for the team, and if we know Devers will walk, I'd prefer we trade him rather than get one more year out of him and watch him walk for a comp pick that is not what it used to be.

Both options suck, and maybe even extending him will suck, too, in the long run.

If we had a farm like the Astros, maybe we'd be able to stomach losing top stars like their fans do.

Looking better to the public may be what JH is thinking. Attendance was lower this past year than any other year since JH took over, and losing Bogey, and Raffy I believe would make it go down even more. Paying customers should, and do have more pull than you think, or want them to have.

[notin]

So you were doing some really good 'shrooms at the time.

But seriously, even the idea was Mookie was intent on free agency is pure speculation. He did say he gave serious consideration to an earlier extension offer from the Sox.

My auto correct does talk the occasional hallucinogen…

[notin]

Looking better to the public may be what JH is thinking. Attendance was lower this past year than any other year since JH took over, and losing Bogey, and Raffy I believe would make it go down even more. Paying customers should, and do have more pull than you think, or want them to have.

Paying customers should have zero pull on actual moves, but you do have to put a product on the field that is worth what they are paying for…

[Old Red]

Paying customers should have zero pull on actual moves, but you do have to put a product on the field that is worth what they are paying for…

I agree with the product on the field part, but remember JH has BIG rabbit ears, and he hears all the feed back.

[notin]

Looking better to the public may be what JH is thinking. Attendance was lower this past year than any other year since JH took over, and losing Bogey, and Raffy I believe would make it go down even more. Paying customers should, and do have more pull than you think, or want them to have.

2021 was worse for attendance and by a lot. Baseball Almanac has 2022 attendance up nearly 50% over 2021.

But this drop happened to nearly every team in MLB, who all had a horrible 2021 and saw significant bounce back in 2022. This is most likely just post-COVID recovery for the sport. And is actually very likely NOT reflective of the product each organization put on the field. (With many ticket sales occurring in the pre-season and 2021 Sox having a deep postseason run, the timing simply didn’t allow for them to.)

So Henry won’t but using this drop to justify anything. Because he shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean what you keep saying it means…

[notin]

I agree with the product on the field part, but remember JH has BIG rabbit ears, and he hears all the feed back.

Henry doesn’t care about our complaints. He didn’t make billions by listing too impatient people complain…

[Bellhorn04]

2021 was worse for attendance and by a lot. Baseball Almanac has 2022 attendance up nearly 50% over 2021.

But this drop happened to nearly every team in MLB, who all had a horrible 2021 and saw significant bounce back in 2022. This is most likely just post-COVID recovery for the sport. And is actually very likely NOT reflective of the product each organization put on the field. (With many ticket sales occurring in the pre-season and 2021 Sox having a deep postseason run, the timing simply didn’t allow for them to.)

So Henry won’t but using this drop to justify anything. Because he shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean what you keep saying it means…

2021 attendance was shrunk by COVID measures. The attendance for the Sox 2021 home opener shows as 4,452.

[moonslav59]

Looking better to the public may be what JH is thinking. Attendance was lower this past year than any other year since JH took over, and losing Bogey, and Raffy I believe would make it go down even more. Paying customers should, and do have more pull than you think, or want them to have.

My question was what posters here thought was worst.

I think the restless Sox fans would not be happy with trading Devers or letting him walk, and since the trading one comes first, I guess the here and now only fans dislike that one the most.

To each his own.

I'd prefer to keep Devers, even on an overpay. My second choice would be to trade him for something better than a comp pick.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry doesn’t care about our complaints. He didn’t make billions by listing too impatient people complain…

True, but you also don't make billions by totally ignoring your customers.

There's a "happy medium" somewhere between...

[moonslav59]

Henry doesn’t care about our complaints. He didn’t make billions by listing too impatient people complain…

He does have to keep the masses happy, to some extent, of he loses a boatload of money. Maybe more money than it would take to sign Devers.

[Bellhorn04]

My question was what posters here thought was worst.

I think the restless Sox fans would not be happy with trading Devers or letting him walk, and since the trading one comes first, I guess the here and now only fans dislike that one the most.

To each his own.

I'd prefer to keep Devers, even on an overpay. My second choice would be to trade him for something better than a comp pick.

Choosing the difference between trading him for something or keeping him one more year is like a choice between...well, any two really s***ty things you can think of.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Why is looking better to the public your top criteria?

I want what is best for the team, and if we know Devers will walk, I'd prefer we trade him rather than get one more year out of him and watch him walk for a comp pick that is not what it used to be.

Both options suck, and maybe even extending him will suck, too, in the long run.

If we had a farm like the Astros, maybe we'd be able to stomach losing top stars like their fans do.

It's not my criteria at all -- I'm just trying to think of the masses and how the front office always does its best to deflect from admitting the truth.

I want what's best for the team, too... but I'm positive trading another homegrown star and getting another average MLB outfielder, an infielder who can't hit minor league pitching, and a back-up catcher in return will not cut it this winter.

Here's an idea: since any team interested in Devers will want him longterm and proceed with such intention, then the Sox demand should be for much more than "one year."

[Old Red]

Henry doesn’t care about our complaints. He didn’t make billions by listing too impatient people complain…

I think you are wrong on this, and I think the signing of Story was the result of Henry hearing all the unrest of the fans of only doing for the most part bargain basement shopping.

[Old Red]

Choosing the difference between trading him for something or keeping him one more year is like a choice between...well, any two really s***ty things you can think of.

To me the only reason you would keep him for that extra year would be the hope of the team being good in 2023. Outside of that he should have been traded last year when you could have gotten more for a 2/year rental instead of 1.

[Old Red]

2021 was worse for attendance and by a lot. Baseball Almanac has 2022 attendance up nearly 50% over 2021.

But this drop happened to nearly every team in MLB, who all had a horrible 2021 and saw significant bounce back in 2022. This is most likely just post-COVID recovery for the sport. And is actually very likely NOT reflective of the product each organization put on the field. (With many ticket sales occurring in the pre-season and 2021 Sox having a deep postseason run, the timing simply didn’t allow for them to.)

So Henry won’t but using this drop to justify anything. Because he shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean what you keep saying it means…

I wasn’t counting the Covid years, but yes I should have specified, but I think everyone knew about the Covid years. I’m glad you think you know what Henry is thinking.

[Old Red]

Choosing the difference between trading him for something or keeping him one more year is like a choice between...well, any two really s***ty things you can think of.

This sort of things have, and probably will happen more frequently. Times have changed big time.

[Bellhorn04]

This sort of things have, and probably will happen more frequently. Times have changed big time.

It's hard to succeed no matter what you do. The Dodgers have been spending big and kicking ass in the regular season, but only have one ring to show for it, in a COVID-shortened season.

The Mets broke the bank this year and won one playoff game.

The Astros look like the best run team right now. But they went and ditched their HOBO for some reason.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

It's hard to succeed no matter what you do. The Dodgers have been spending big and kicking ass in the regular season, but only have one ring to show for it, in a COVID-shortened season.

The Mets broke the bank this year and won one playoff game.

The Astros look like the best run team right now. But they went and ditched their HOBO for some reason.

I heard he had a trade lined up with Boston where Houston would acquire Schreiber for Altuve, Bregman, top catching prospect Yainer Diaz, and a minor league lefty pitcher named Dombrowski.

BTV approved this deal, so I don't what Crane's problem was...

[notin]

I wasn’t counting the Covid years, but yes I should have specified, but I think everyone knew about the Covid years. I’m glad you think you know what Henry is thinking.

Isn’t that exactly what you keep doing?

[moonslav59]

Choosing the difference between trading him for something or keeping him one more year is like a choice between...well, any two really s***ty things you can think of.

Indeed, and unless you think 2023 is "the window," what I think is best for the team, and maybe not the short-term view fans, would be to trade him, if an only if, we are pretty certain we can't extend him.

[moonslav59]

Isn’t that exactly what you keep doing?

To quote Ole Red, "Where did I ever say _____?"

[notin]

Indeed, and unless you think 2023 is "the window," what I think is best for the team, and maybe not the short-term view fans, would be to trade him, if an only if, we are pretty certain we can't extend him.

I’d rather extend Devers, defensive shortcomings and all, then sign anyone on the market this year…

[moonslav59]

I’d rather extend Devers, defensive shortcomings and all, then sign anyone on the market this year…

No doubt. This market is not all that great.

I could see us making 2 impact moves, this winter, that set us up to do better in 2023 but also beyond. Maybe, sign Devers and Correa, and then go shorter term everywhere else, reset and go big in 2024.

Getting Correa might make the anxious fans happy enough to wait it out for 2024. Would they be happier signing Correa over just bringing Bogey and Devers back and trotting out, basically the same team in 2023?

So, maybe extend Devers, sign Correa and shorter term guys like Gallo or Conforto, Nate and 3 decent RP'er.

Not sure that placates the anxious fans.

[notin]

Eovaldi hopefully accepts his QO.

Sign Gallo for RF.

Sign 2 relievers. Jansen, Martin and Rogers are the best ones left.

SS is a big question…

[Old Red]

No doubt. This market is not all that great.

I could see us making 2 impact moves, this winter, that set us up to do better in 2023 but also beyond. Maybe, sign Devers and Correa, and then go shorter term everywhere else, reset and go big in 2024.

Getting Correa might make the anxious fans happy enough to wait it out for 2024. Would they be happier signing Correa over just bringing Bogey and Devers back and trotting out, basically the same team in 2023?

So, maybe extend Devers, sign Correa and shorter term guys like Gallo or Conforto, Nate and 3 decent RP'er.

Not sure that placates the anxious fans.
I don’t think signing Correa over Bogey for more money would make the anxious fans happy enough to wait for 2024. 2023 is the only thing that matter right now to some. Signing Correa, and bringing Raffy, and trotting out basically the same team I can’t see being any better off. If you are not sure what placates anxious fans by now you will never know. I’ll take a big shot at the dark on this, and I’ll say a winning competitive team that plays in the postseason
Unlike this last year that was a losing last place in the Div team.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

I’d rather extend Devers, defensive shortcomings and all, then sign anyone on the market this year…

That's where I'm at. He's only led all of baseball in extra base hits since he became a full-timer four years ago -- and it's not even close. He's 26.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think signing Correa over Bogey for more money would make the anxious fans happy enough to wait for 2024. 2023 is the only thing that matter right now to some. Signing Correa, and bringing Raffy, and trotting out basically the same team I can’t see being any better off. If you are not sure what placates anxious fans by now you will never know. I’ll take a big shot at the dark on this, and I’ll say a winning competitive team that plays in the postseason
Unlike this last year that was a losing last place in the Div team.

My point was signing Correa might get more people to pay for NESN and tickets. Of course, we'd have to win more to keep the anxious fans happy for 2023.

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi hopefully accepts his QO.

Sign Gallo for RF.

Sign 2 relievers. Jansen, Martin and Rogers are the best ones left.

SS is a big question…

Unless we get a good SS, that team is not much better than 2022. Gallo> JBJ & Co.

2 RP"ers > Strahm

No replacements for Wacha and Hill.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

The Red Sox are top spenders everything single year for the last two and a half decades. They go right up against or over the cap every year. There’s zero chance they don’t spend at least 90 million this offseason.

There is a plethora of SS talent with a big 4, and a position the Sox have a huge hole at. I think it’s a bad bet to assume the Sox aren’t very likely to sign one of those guys.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I actually wouldn’t mind if Nathan rejects the QO. Go out and find two 15 mil types and net a pick. Conversely there’s a real good chance the QO kills his market and the Sox can get him at a lower AAV for the next three years. They need starters after 2023 too.

[Old Red]

My point was signing Correa might get more people to pay for NESN and tickets. Of course, we'd have to win more to keep the anxious fans happy for 2023.

I got your point, but why do you think signing Correa for more money would appease the fans over signing Bogey, which was my point? I don’t believe it would.

[notin]

I actually wouldn’t mind if Nathan rejects the QO. Go out and find two 15 mil types and net a pick. Conversely there’s a real good chance the QO kills his market and the Sox can get him at a lower AAV for the next three years. They need starters after 2023 too.

I think Eovaldi is actually a very underrated as a pitcher when he’s healthy. And there is definite irony in me advocating for him after railing against his last contract. But for 1-2 years, I can deal. Maybe.

A rotation of Eovaldi, Sale, Paxton, Pivetta and Whitlock has some potential. Although one more starter to push Whitlock back to the pen would be good. Bello, Mata, Crawford, and Winckowski would be needed as depth barring unforeseen good luck with those five. One more arm to be safe.

The bullpen then has Houck, Schreiber, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, and Kelly. Hopefully they get a starter and push Whitlock back. Or trade Duran for a reliever. Or sign a free agent. Or any combination of those moves…

[Old Red]

I think Eovaldi is actually a very underrated as a pitcher when he’s healthy. And there is definite irony in me advocating for him after railing against his last contract. But for 1-2 years, I can deal. Maybe.

A rotation of Eovaldi, Sale, Paxton, Pivetta and Whitlock has some potential. Although one more starter to push Whitlock back to the pen would be good. Bello, Mata, Crawford, and Winckowski would be needed as depth barring unforeseen good luck with those five. One more arm to be safe.

The bullpen then has Houck, Schreiber, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, and Kelly. Hopefully they get a starter and push Whitlock back. Or trade Duran for a reliever. Or sign a free agent. Or any combination of those moves…

The rotation you mentioned may have some potential, but also more than likely an injury waiting to happen.

[notin]

The rotation you mentioned may have some potential, but also more than likely an injury waiting to happen.

An injury?? As in, just one injury? You underestimate them.

That rotation could easily look like a bunch of extras from an episode of M*A*S*H during dress rehearsal. And do it by mid-May…

[Old Red]

An injury?? As in, just one injury? You underestimate them.

That rotation could easily look like a bunch of extras from an episode of M*A*S*H during dress rehearsal. And do it by mid-May…
You are giving Sale to much credit to last until mid-May.

[moonslav59]

I got your point, but why do you think signing Correa for more money would appease the fans over signing Bogey, which was my point? I don’t believe it would.

You want us to sign Bogey and Devers, right?

What is the most you'd offer for each?

If they end up getting more, elsewhere, will you blame Bloom for not signing them?

If we could trade Devers for players like Dugo and Wong, would you do it?

[Old Red]

You want us to sign Bogey and Devers, right?

What is the most you'd offer for each?

If they end up getting more, elsewhere, will you blame Bloom for not signing them?

If we could trade Devers for players like Dugo and Wong, would you do it?

All these questions have been answered, and answered more than once.

[moonslav59]

I think Eovaldi is actually a very underrated as a pitcher when he’s healthy. And there is definite irony in me advocating for him after railing against his last contract. But for 1-2 years, I can deal. Maybe.

A rotation of Eovaldi, Sale, Paxton, Pivetta and Whitlock has some potential. Although one more starter to push Whitlock back to the pen would be good. Bello, Mata, Crawford, and Winckowski would be needed as depth barring unforeseen good luck with those five. One more arm to be safe.

The bullpen then has Houck, Schreiber, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, and Kelly. Hopefully they get a starter and push Whitlock back. Or trade Duran for a reliever. Or sign a free agent. Or any combination of those moves…

The problem is with Nate's health. He's never been a horse.

He's getting older. He scares the hell out of me, even at a 1 year QO.

[Old Red]

The problem is with Nate's health. He's never been a horse.

He's getting older. He scares the hell out of me, even at a 1 year QO.


And especially for $19M.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

The rotation you mentioned may have some potential, but also more than likely an injury waiting to happen.

If what you say is true, adding one guy doesn’t fix that, adding two takes up most of your budget and probably destroys your ability resign bogey and Devers MAYBE bogey, unless you’re adding cheaper guys in the mode of hill and Wacha. Those are the types of moves people seem to hate out of Bloom. They want the big splash.

BTW, I don’t disagree. I think the rotation is thin and carry’s injury risk.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

To reiterate my last comment. The Sox will need a combination of smart additions and good luck to fix the rotation

[moonslav59]

And especially for $19M.

That's a big chunk of the winter spending budget on someone we need to improve on 2022 while in his post-prime years.

I really like Nate, and will be eternally grateful for what he did in 2018, but sometimes, it's just time to cut ties.

[notin]

The problem is with Nate's health. He's never been a horse.

He's getting older. He scares the hell out of me, even at a 1 year QO.




Eovaldi is the only worthwhile pitcher the Sox have a shot at signing for one year. And all those other pitchers seeking multi year deals aren’t exactly bastions off durability either…

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi is the only worthwhile pitcher the Sox have a shot at signing for one year. And all those other pitchers seeking multi year deals aren’t exactly bastions off durability either…

You know I'm looking at trading for one.

We don't have to just settle on the best one we can get for the money on a 1 year deal.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Eovaldi is the only worthwhile pitcher the Sox have a shot at signing for one year. And all those other pitchers seeking multi year deals aren’t exactly bastions off durability either…

And might I add, who is? The top pitcher on the market comes with his own ambulance and he’s going to get 40 million per year. By comparison Nate is archetype of good health, on this years market. He’s still only 32, which isn’t terribly young but for someone who has shown he can recover well from injury and otherwise been relatively consistent I think it makes him overall a good decision to QO

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

The problem is with Nate's health. He's never been a horse.

He's getting older. He scares the hell out of me, even at a 1 year QO.



You should be scared -- as most of us are... but not because of Nate. The last place Red Sox starting rotation is a sham in shambles.

Eovaldi may not ever be healthy through an entire season again, but right now he is a better bet to pitch and pitch well for 2023 than two young guys who just had surgery and two old guys who are always hurt. He's also younger than deGrom, Bassitt, Kershaw and Verlander.

This morning I read reports that Boston is looking to add another starter, but only "a #2 or #3" guy. Why are the Sox unwilling to pay for a #1 like Rodon? We know it's not because they can't afford it.

Is it because there are just too many other holes to fill on the roster? Can a staff of #3 starters lift you to third place? If you're a cellar-dweller vowing to be way better, isn't third place way better?

[notin]

And might I add, who is? The top pitcher on the market comes with his own ambulance and he’s going to get 40 million per year. By comparison Nate is archetype of good health, on this years market. He’s still only 32, which isn’t terribly young but for someone who has shown he can recover well from injury and otherwise been relatively consistent I think it makes him overall a good decision to QO

I liked the QO. Eovaldi lead the AL in fWAR as recently as 2021.

If he accepts, I’m fine with it. If he rejects, issues start. I could see a 2 year contract. 3 years? I’m getting hesitant. 4 years could be a bad idea…

[Old Red]

I liked the QO. Eovaldi lead the AL in fWAR as recently as 2021.

If he accepts, I’m fine with it. If he rejects, issues start. I could see a 2 year contract. 3 years? I’m getting hesitant. 4 years Shaun would be a bad idea…
What’s leading the league in anything in 2021 got to do with now. Was he as good last year when he wasn’t hurt, and now he two years older than 2021.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope Eovaldi takes the QO. Risky as heck but so are most pricey pitchers.

[notin]

You are giving Sale to much credit to last until mid-May.

I was assuming a “bunch of extras.” He might have to wait out a couple others…

[Old Red]

I hope Eovaldi takes the QO. Risky as heck but so are most pricey pitchers.

I would rather see a trade for someone younger, and less expensive. $19M+ takes up a lot of the budget.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

What’s leading the league in anything in 2021 got to do with now. Was he as good last year when he wasn’t hurt, and now he two years older than 2021.

He’s still in his early 30’s. I thought I read somewhere Eovaldi didn’t have a normal
Off-season last year. Maybe that’s what led to his lower back injury, before that he looked great. With a normal offseason he could easily return to form. Sox know his medical position more than any of us and they were comfortable extending him a QO.

Everything always comes down to price tag, if Eovaldi can get 4/65 I probably walk away. But if the price tags is 3/45. Sign me up.

[Bellhorn04]

I would rather see a trade for someone younger, and less expensive. $19M+ takes up a lot of the budget.

Could do both.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I would rather see a trade for someone younger, and less expensive. $19M+ takes up a lot of the budget.

It’s for one year. There’s extreme value in one year contracts. There’s a reason why you see all over baseball teams willing to give higher AAV to get a guy for less years.

Also, we’re t you the dude literally going on page for page about not giving a hoot about money and budgets? Now you care?

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

People do realize that any pitcher on the FA market that’s going to upgrade this rotation is going to come with an AAV price tag of 20 million plus, right? I’d rather take it on one year than 4-5. Someone is going to give Degrome 40 million per year and he’s in his mid 30’s. Could work out great, could work out worse than Chris Sales extension.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

Let’s also throw some rational out into the universe. If 2021 has nothing to do with 2023, neither does 2022. Except they do.

[Old Red]

It’s for one year. There’s extreme value in one year contracts. There’s a reason why you see all over baseball teams willing to give higher AAV to get a guy for less years.

Also, we’re t you the dude literally going on page for page about not giving a hoot about money and budgets? Now you care?
I personally don’t care, but I do understand there is a budget. $19M even for 1 yr still takes up a lot of 2023 budget does it not?

[Old Red]

Let’s also throw some rational out into the universe. If 2021 has nothing to do with 2023, neither does 2022. Except they do.

And like I said, and now he’s two years older, and had some injuries in 2022.

[Bellhorn04]

I personally don’t care, but I do understand there is a budget. $19M even for 1 yr still takes up a lot of 2023 budget does it not?

The fact is you do care, the same way we care.