According To Globe, Edgar Just Signed...

[derekn]

BREAKING SPORTS NEWS: Edgar Renteria signed a four-year, $40 million contract with the Red Sox today, giving Boston an All-Star shortstop, according to the Globe.


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...four_years_40m/ (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/15/renteria_signs_with_red_sox_for_four_years_40m/)

Ok now we need another SP....

[mosox]

Oh Yeah! Hitting second behind Damon.

[RedSoxRooter]

I still don't understand why, but I guess it's a good deal..... I guess Hanley is bait now.

Dirtdogs is also posting this: "Meanwhile, Sox Getting Closer with Pitching Replacements - A.J. Burnett is Front and Center"

Me excited!

[sarasoxfan]

oh yeah!!!

this is a good move....nay a great move.


now tek and some starting pitching and we're all set!!

oh and a first basemen...

then we're alls et..

way to go theo.

[BoSox Rule]

If him and his .327 OBP hit behind Damon instead of Bellhorn's .373 I'll shoot someone.

How can some of you honestly say this is a greats signing?

[CrespoBlows]

Polanco hit in a wiffle ball park last year, Renteria was in a pitcher's park. Renteria has post season expirence, Polanco has none. Renteria is better with the glove then Polanco is.

[sarasoxfan]

I think bellhorn's OBP, is pretty good but those strikeouts suck.
Oralndo's OBP was lower than Edgar's, Edgar's a better hitter and a better fielder-

whats not to like. He easily one of the top five shortstops in the majors. It's a step up.

[yankeessuck013]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 15 2004, 02:54 PM
If him and his .327 OBP hit behind Damon instead of Bellhorn's .373 I'll shoot someone.

How can some of you honestly say this is a greats signing?
I am excited about the Renteria deal!!! It's a confidence builder right now in the midst of Pedro leaving. I have faith in Theo to keep things going and get us what we need. Hanley might be a good prospect for the future but Renteria is proven and doing great right now. Good job Theo- and welcome Renteria!!! Once again Theo and his staff have worked a sweet deal. There is not a doubt, not a doubt that Theo and his staff are not done yet. They will sign TEK and get one more front line pitcher. Finnally it is fun being a RED SOX fan, more importantly a defending WORLD CHAMPION RED SOX fan. Thank you Mr. Henry!

[elsrbueno]

While I have no doubt Renteria will be a quality player for the next 4 years, it seems his price tag is a little high when Orlando would have come cheaper.

Going from Busch to Fenway should help Renteria's offensive numbers though.

[CrespoBlows]

He makes consistent contact, which explains his low OBP.

[sarasoxfan]

Its hard to believe that we are comparing renteria to mark bellhorn..

[papi4prez]

i think he should bat 2nd behind damon.... bellhorn seems to get that strikeout to end every rally. How many K's did he have...wasn't it like 160 or am i retarded

[elsrbueno]

Renteria's definately a quality #2 hitter. I always thought Orlando should have hit there too. A decent mix of speed and power.

Bellhorn's got a great OBP, and is a good alternative if the Sox feel Renteria should hit 6 or 7... but if it was my choice... I'd go with Edgar.

[sarasoxfan]

it was more like 177,...so I guess the answer to other question is a yes.

[sarasoxfan]

orlando got some timely hits to be sure, but he was a bit of a free swinger..edgar will be a prefect 2 guy..contact, contact...

bellhorn if he's around probably can bat somewhere at the bottom of the order.

[papi4prez]

eh...shut up

[sarasoxfan]

i was just kidding..

hard to believe but it was 177

[papi4prez]

i was kidding too

[BoSox Rule]

Who care's about contact. It's a number two hitter's job to get on-base for the amazing hitters like Ortiz and Manny.

I'd rather a guy who walks 88 times and gets on base over 37% of the time. Not somebody who had a PATHETIC .327 OBP.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 15 2004, 12:39 PM
oh yeah!!!

this is a good move....nay a great move.


now tek and some starting pitching and we're all set!!

oh and a first basemen...

then we're alls et..

way to go theo.
it really isn't a great signing, it's not even a good signing. you are overpaying for an overrated player.

how does it get any worse? we should have let him sign with the cardinals for 9 mill per and signed OC for 7 or 8 mill per or gotten a stopgap.

now we're trade 6 years of (18+HR, 80 + rbi, .300 + ave, GG ss defence @ 300k per year)

sigh.

bellhorn batting 2nd > renteria batting 2nd. the higher your OBP is the more value you are behind the box.

do you guys even understand what OBP is? it's the chance that you WON'T create an out. the higher the % the better. renteria is extremely overrated. he has good defence, his hitting is so overrated it's not even funny. his career has been up and down up and down. his OPS (another stat that is MUCH more important than ave) was only in the .700's this year. that's CRAP for a 10 mill per year player.

this signing is stupid.

my worst fears are coming true, overpaying for rent, next is overpaying for tek, and then we're going to get into a bidding war with the angels for clement and rape our farm system for pitchers.

john

[stocker323]

So are you saying that we should have signed Cabrera, instead of Renteria because of Renteria's low OBP? IF I'm not mistaken Cabrera's OBP is even LOWER than Renteria. I understand that you probably want Cabrera for other reasons as well, but for that to be your main reason makes no sense.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 15 2004, 03:28 PM
orlando got some timely hits to be sure, but he was a bit of a free swinger..edgar will be a prefect 2 guy..contact, contact...

bellhorn if he's around probably can bat somewhere at the bottom of the order.
OUCH, OC's OPS was higher than renterias last season and his defence was better too.

he also struk out less than renteria and would have had a better average and power numbers if he spent a full seasn at fenway. he batted .394 at fenway whereas renteria batted .287 all season.

bellhorn wouldn't be as good at the bottom of the order. his OBP is pretty damn good. he's a decent number two. i bitched a lot about bellhorn last season about being # 2 but renteria is not the guy to replace him. close, but no close enough imo.

i'm just hating this signing. overpaying and everything is pointing towards trading hanley.

john

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by stocker323@Dec 15 2004, 05:31 PM
So are you saying that we should have signed Cabrera, instead of Renteria because of Renteria's low OBP? IF I'm not mistaken Cabrera's OBP is even LOWER than Renteria. I understand that you probably want Cabrera for other reasons as well, but for that to be your main reason makes no sense.
actually OC's OPS is greater than renterias. yes, renteria had a slightly better obp (by .007), that's .7 percent better.

but OC surely makes up with his slugging % which was .485 (at fenway). renterias was .401. OC's OPS is also much better than renterias.

given a full year at fenway OC's numbers would have been superior to renterias. his defence is better and he costs less.

renteria was not a BAD signing, it was the BEST thing we could have done.

john

[stocker323]

Renteria's career OPS is 21 points higher than Cabrera's. Cabrera's OPS did improve significantly when he went to the Red Sox, but the same thing will happen when Renteria goes to Fenway as well.

[BoSox Rule]

Yeah, for more than twice the price.

[yankeessuck013]

How can you not like the Renteria signing?
He only 29, it seems like he has been kicking around the league forever but apparently he was originally called up at 19.
.300 seems reasonable and perhaps even higher if he can adapt to hitting with the Wall. He has driven in 100 runs on one or maybe even two occasions before so depending upon where he hits in the line-up that could be attainable again.
Defensively, he's probably a miniscule step up from Cabrera and a monumental step up from old friend Lassie.

Who are the top 3 SS in the AL EAST?

1.)Tejada
2.)Renteria
3.)Jeter

2 and 3 could be reversed!? im not quite sure

[ahhchon]

look at it this way. nomar signed for 1 year 8 mill. renteria signed for 4 years 40 mill.

that's 2 mill more a year for renteria than nomar.

nomar: average defence, way above average offence: 8 mill for ONE YEAR

renteria: good defence, average offence: 40 mill for FOUR years.

hanley is on the way up and is more than promising, this was a bad signing.

john

[BoSox Rule]

Jeter's better than Renteria

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 15 2004, 06:15 PM
Jeter's better than Renteria
offensively, hell yes, defensively, hell no.

john

[BoSox Rule]

Look at Jeter's and Renteria's defensive numbers.

They're both average.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 15 2004, 06:24 PM
Look at Jeter's and Renteria's defensive numbers.

They're both average.



OMG, they are shockingly similar.

and i don't KNOW WTF i was talking about when i said renteria was better than jeter offensively.. must had been a mess up in my brain. jeter is FAR superior to renteria offensively.

john

[yeszir]

I find it ironic that Renteria made the last out in the world series, only to come to the sox for the next season.

[schillingouttheks]

i was about to say that when john kept telling people y he wanted OC instead, i was gunna be on johns side and say, at least OC didnt make the last out of the WS ;)

[RedSox4538]

Originally posted by ahhchon@Dec 15 2004, 06:11 PM
look at it this way. nomar signed for 1 year 8 mill. renteria signed for 4 years 40 mill.

that's 2 mill more a year for renteria than nomar.

nomar: average defence, way above average offence: 8 mill for ONE YEAR

renteria: good defence, average offence: 40 mill for FOUR years.

hanley is on the way up and is more than promising, this was a bad signing.

john
Consdering Hanley hasn't even touched AAA ball, and your projecting stardom?
I'm predicting a .325 AVG for Renteria with 15 HR's, because he's playing at Fenway

[DOrtiz4prez]

Noone thinks Renteria is any good at hitting. He was a key part on the arguably the best hitting team last year beside us. He batted leadoff on the CARDINALS. I think he is almost as good if not as good as Nomar at hitting.

Let the arguing against me begin!

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by DOrtiz4prez@Dec 15 2004, 09:54 PM
Noone thinks Renteria is any good at hitting. He was a key part on the arguably the best hitting team last year beside us. He batted leadoff on the CARDINALS. I think he is almost as good if not as good as Nomar at hitting.

Let the arguing against me begin!
his hitting abilities should never be mentioned in the same breath as nomars. it's not even close.

renteria could NEVER hit more than 25 HR's a year, he also couldn't hit .370, let alone have an over .450 OBP and 1.0+ OPS.

lets not overrate this guy cus we signed him.. oops wait, we signed him cus we overrated him. he's not BAD, but he's NOT 10 mill dollars a year good. nomar is getting paid 2 mill less than edgar this year and will hit 10 more hr's, have 20 more rbi's and have a higher OBP.

john

[BoSox Rule]

Edgar couldn't touch Nomar's average season with his 2003 career year.

[ahhchon]

Nomar:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K
126 505 92 165 37 6.25 23 89 37 53

SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
11 3.6 .322 .370 .549 .919

Renteria:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K
157 587 96 194 47 1 13 100 65 54

SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
34 7 .330 .394 .480 .874

mind you this is a small sample of renterias BEST year vs a large sample of nomars AVERAGE

i would say that his BEST season does touch nomars career average. but those are numbers calculated by me and i rounded up or down accordingly. i did it out fast so it's not very accurate but it's pretty damn close.

a healthy nomar decimates renteria offensively.

john

[sully777]

I don't understand why this 40million dollar deal is such a big deal. Sure to some degree it is overpaying, but in the same regard, we are signing probably the best FA shortstop on the market. Also since we lost Pedro, that free's up a ton of money, that really isn't going to get spent. The two top prospects on the Pitcher FA market are Clement and Perez, and they are lucky to go for over 8mil, Pavano made 8.5mil in his contract. So Varitek will cost us alot, but not as much as he is asking, because once Dec. gets late and nobody wants that kind of pricey catcher, his price will come down to earth. Plus nobody is talking about Lowe, who Wells takes over for, and while their contracts are similar, Wells needs to pitch damn well to get all that money. So the Sox have tons of money(World Series shares plus increased ticket prices) and went out and purchased a premiere shortstop, a position we needed to fill badly. Its no Nomar, but we lost Nomar so its a moot point, we got the best on the market. Renteria will be better at Fenway, a hitters park, and when he isn't facing ridiculous pitching staffs in his division (Prior, Zambrano, Wells, Clemens, Oswalt) he should average better numbers since the division is at least half the season. Plus does anyone remember the world series, Renteria by game 3 was the guy i was most scared of at the plate in that offense. The man was by far their best hitter, 5-15, against our staff, supposedly the best in the AL. So even though he had an off year, if that is the Renteria we are signing, I am pretty happy with it.

[DOrtiz4prez]

Thinking about how they're playing now Edgar is better. This year Nomar will never bat close to 370. Throw away the stats from 2000 and everything and think about now.

[elsrbueno]

Originally posted by ahhchon@Dec 15 2004, 10:11 PM
lets not overrate this guy cus we signed him.. oops wait, we signed him cus we overrated him. he's not BAD, but he's NOT 10 mill dollars a year good. nomar is getting paid 2 mill less than edgar this year and will hit 10 more hr's, have 20 more rbi's and have a higher OBP.

john
What John said is absolutely correct.

Edgar is good, but he's not $10 million a year good.

[sarasoxfan]

els is right, but john's logic is absurd..

are you saying we should now start basing someone's salary on what you think another will do in the coming season...huh...


nomar is getting two million less than edgar because nomar had a shitty season and is always injured.


How the hell do you know that nomar will do this year....and if he does the things you say he'll sign for more.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 16 2004, 09:58 AM
els is right, but john's logic is absurd..

are you saying we should now start basing someone's salary on what you think another will do in the coming season...huh...


nomar is getting two million less than edgar because nomar had a shitty season and is always injured.


How the hell do you know that nomar will do this year....and if he does the things you say he'll sign for more.
read my other posts bro. if els is right how am i wrong considering he said i was right. lol

don't worry, i have 2 more finals today then i'm free. i'll have so many stats backing why renteria is worth only 6 mill, 7 mill TOPS.

john

[sarasoxfan]

fire away..good luck on your exams..
he's right and usually is becasue he makes sense..

you did not make sense comparing edgar to what nomar will, could or might do.

<puff>

[ahhchon]

nomar had better numbers that renteria did last season. his offensive numbers were so much better it&#39;s not even funny. granted he only played 81 games the sample is smaller. but it&#39;s nomar. given 140+ games his offensive numbers would have decimated edgars. now that he&#39;s healthy, we&#39;ll see. i have no doubt in my mind that nomars numbers will be better than renterias numbers.

he had 9 hr&#39;s in 81 games, renteria had 10 in 140+ games. he had 41 rbi&#39;s for the cubs where renteria had 72. his OBP was greater by .039, slugging better by .055, and his OPS was greater by .091. this is playing while INJURED.

don&#39;t worry, i&#39;ll have much more after my finals..

how is els making sense? he says john is right and stated what i said. lol but i&#39;m wrong. negative :D

john

[sarasoxfan]

because I dont make sense...

he&#39;s always right, anyway..

so now we are going to tailor stats by "sample size" and salary based on projected numbers. Oh and plus, "it&#39;s nomar"...I wasnt aware being nomar was a stat..

Well, in the past week we&#39;ve added fucking as atat thanks to crespo...now we have the "it&#39;s nomar"stat.

I cant wait to see what&#39;s in store for edgar and nomar after your exams.

[ahhchon]

where did i say we should sign him because he&#39;s nomar. look at the numbers i posted. do you think that what i say is definate, i know how large the sample sizes are and i also point them out.

look at nomars career average vs renterias best year.

that&#39;s the market, if nomar got 8 mill and you pay renteria 10 mill you&#39;re saying that he&#39;s worth 2 mill more than nomar. which could be true, but judged on past results it&#39;s not true, not even close.

how can you justify paying renteria 10 mill a year when polacio is only 3 mill per TOPS? the guy can defend just well and is not far behind hitting wise.

we&#39;ll see..

john

[sarasoxfan]

huh, no one said anything about signing him becasue he&#39;s nomar..he&#39;edgar..and nomar is nomar...

um, er...maybe we should stop smoking the peace pipe.

You said.. "granted he only played 81 games the sample is smaller. but it&#39;s nomar. given 140+ games his offensive numbers would have decimated edgars."

I am happy about edgar and while els is right (lol, careful john your blood pressure) we overpaid a little I still think he&#39;s a good pick-up.

I await the post exam, explosion.

[ahhchon]

i thought you were saying something else when you pointed out that i said "it&#39;s nomar".

edgar is no doubt in my mind a good pickup, but we overpaid A LOT. how can you justify paying somone with an OBP of .327 10 mill per year? bellhorn is worth more than this guy and boy do i hate bellhorn and his K&#39;s.

john

[schillingouttheks]

WOW LMAO

i just came from about 3 threads, with you two debating and not smoking a peace pipe anymore

and now i come here

and of course, the only 2 usernames i see are

sarasoxfan
ahhchon

over and over and over down the page...to not make it an eye sore...im putting my post in the middle of a soon to be continued battle

w00t.

[sarasoxfan]

I cant remeber what we arguing about&#33;

whatever it was, I know I was right and John was wrong.

I think Zenny ran off with the peace pipe.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 10:14 AM
I cant remeber what we arguing about&#33;

whatever it was, I know I was right and John was wrong.

I think Zenny ran off with the peace pipe.
that is so far from the truth it&#39;s not even funny. i&#39;ve pulled out countless stats to prove my statement. everything backing me up. what have you done to back up your opinions, nothing. not one single stat.

baseball is a game of numbers my friend, you can almost completely build a good team by looking at statsheets.

john

[sarasoxfan]

would you agree that stats can be manipulated to say anything?

admit it...come on, you know that&#39;s true.

I&#39;m nt saying your stats are wrong but it&#39;s true that you can pull out stats to paint nearly any picture you want, my friend. (like you do with yours)....

[ahhchon]

of course they can, but that&#39;s not what i&#39;m doing. i&#39;m taking edgars RAW stats and comparing them to the stats of another player (statsheet will be up, i&#39;m not sure when, my brain is on fun vacation mode right now).

raw stats don&#39;t lie. they clearly show how edgar is being overpaid and is extremely overrated. he simply is an average hitter with above average defence.

john

[sarasoxfan]

i get the feeling it has been on vacation for awhile.

<before you bust out I was joking--it was to hard a setup line to ignore>>

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 12:45 PM
i get the feeling it has been on vacation for awhile.

<before you bust out I was joking--it was to hard a setup line to ignore>>
oooof, i got served..

actually, as a matter of fact it has. it&#39;s been on vacation for a week. finals week has been the worst week of my life. i&#39;m glad it&#39;s over with. i&#39;ll be gone from talksox for a while. can&#39;t wait to hit the slopes&#33;

i&#39;ll take some pictures for you guys, mwa ha ha

john

[sarasoxfan]

have fun.

we really are going to miss you...


PS: I hope it rains...

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 01:20 PM
have fun.

we really are going to miss you...


PS: I hope it rains...
dude, if there is a hell you would totally be there. why would you wish rain on my vacation. one that i will probably spend over a thousand on (my own hard earned money)..

i mean yeah, we don&#39;t get along here and there but i would never wish crap on you. weak dude, weak.

john

[elsrbueno]

John,
Where are you going skiing?

[sarasoxfan]

man, you are testy.

Have fun, and I hope it snows...

there hows that..

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by elsrbueno@Dec 17 2004, 01:38 PM
John,
Where are you going skiing?
i don&#39;t ski, i snowboard. i plan on spending a few days up at sugarloaf is the snow report is good. then i plan on hitting up canada. there is a place up there that has a castle as a resort. i figure it&#39;s a nice place to spend new years with the gal.

john

p.s.- thanks sara :-D

[elsrbueno]

Neat. I snowboard too, and since I live in VT... it&#39;s easy access&#33; Never been to Sugarloaf though.

Have fun&#33;

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by elsrbueno@Dec 17 2004, 02:11 PM
Neat. I snowboard too, and since I live in VT... it&#39;s easy access&#33; Never been to Sugarloaf though.

Have fun&#33;
how&#39;s the snow report in VT??

john

[elsrbueno]

Originally posted by ahhchon+Dec 17 2004, 02:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ahhchon @ Dec 17 2004, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-elsrbueno@Dec 17 2004, 02:11 PM
Neat. I snowboard too, and since I live in VT... it&#39;s easy access&#33; Never been to Sugarloaf though.

Have fun&#33;
how&#39;s the snow report in VT??

john [/b][/quote]
eh.

It&#39;s been cold enough for mountains to make snow, but we haven&#39;t got CRAP for real snow as of yet. Stowe claims they&#39;ve gotten 2 feet of natural snow over the past week, but I&#39;d have to see it to believe it.

I&#39;m looking out the window now, and We&#39;ve got what they call in Vermont: "a dusting."

[sarasoxfan]

here you go john, my way of apologizing..

PS: have fun, break a leg...

thats a figure of speech, meaning dont break a leg...just so you know&#33;

Conditions as of December 17, 2004
The Whiffletree and King Pine chair lifts open today.
New Snow 7 days: 6+ inches New Snow 24:
Open Trails: 69 Lifts: 8
Grooming: 29 Snowmaking: 4
Base Depth: 14-44 inches Summit Depth:
Surface: Packed Powder Secondary Surface: Packed Powder
Open Miles: 29.69 Open Acres: 325.78
Today&#39;s Temp -
Base: 16-20°F
Summit: 5-9°F Today&#39;s Wind -
Base: NW 10-18
Summit: NW 30-50

Todays Weather: Flurries
Tomorrow&#39;s Weather: Mostly sunny
Next Day&#39;s Weather: Chance flurries

[yankeessuck013]

Do you have a favorite player on the Red Sox that you are most looking forward to playing with?

Renteria: "Yeah, Manny. Manny is one of the great hitters in baseball. I think I am going to learn a lot about hitting from Manny. So I hope he can teach me how to hit."