Tyler Thornburg

[notin]

... avoided arbitration and settled for $1.75 mill.

So he’s back in the bullpen with Barnes, Brasier, Hembree and Workman and possibly Johnson.

One spot left? Will the Sox take advantage of Thornburg’s closing experience at some point?

[Bellhorn04]

For me the obvious first question is why did he pitch so badly last year when he came back from the injury?

[cp176]

Also looks as though Kimbrel is looking for 6 years! Ouch - likely not in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

Also looks as though Kimbrel is looking for 6 years! Ouch - likely not in Boston.

I'll go on record that there's no way he gets 6 years.

[cp176]

I'll go on record that there's no way he gets 6 years.

You should be carful Bellhorn about going on record with that. It is safe to say that I won't remember what you said but you know there are others who would hold your feet to the fire if the prophecy turns out wrong. lol I don't think that there is any way that he gets 6 either but you can't fault a fella for trying.

[kenmeister]

... avoided arbitration and settled for $1.75 mill.

So he’s back in the bullpen with Barnes, Brasier, Hembree and Workman and possibly Johnson.

One spot left? Will the Sox take advantage of Thornburg’s closing experience at some point?

I liked what I saw from Poyner.

[moonslav59]

For me the obvious first question is why did he pitch so badly last year when he came back from the injury?

He may never get near to what he was that year with Milwaukee. It is a difficult injury to fully recover from, but if he does, we have a closer or a great set-up guy.

I think we should plan on getting nothing from him, and anything he gives us will be a bonus.

[moonslav59]

Possible pen current depth chart:

Barnes
Brasier
Hembree
Workman
Thornburg
Johnson/Vezaquez/Wright

Poyner
Scott
Walden
Brewer
Lakins
Josh Taylor
Shawaryn/Shepherd/Josh Smith
Feltman

[Carpin]

Kimbrel shooting for the moon, he wants a 6 years deal, he will settle for 4 maybe 5 years, but let's see who's dumb enough to give him a 6 yrs contract (hopefully not the Yankees)

[Bellhorn04]

Possible pen current depth chart:

Barnes
Brasier
Hembree
Workman
Thornburg
Johnson/Vezaquez/Wright

Poyner
Scott
Walden
Brewer
Lakins
Josh Taylor
Shawaryn/Shepherd/Josh Smith
Feltman


+ Austin Maddox. (You did use the word 'possible'.)

[Spudboy]

The only good thing about the Thornberg deal is that it is cheap and short.

I suspect this is a waste of roster space.

I too like Poyner.

[dgalehouse]

Possible pen current depth chart:

Barnes
Brasier
Hembree
Workman
Thornburg
Johnson/Vezaquez/Wright

Poyner
Scott
Walden
Brewer
Lakins
Josh Taylor
Shawaryn/Shepherd/Josh Smith
Feltman


We are going to have to improve on that lineup.

[moonslav59]

+ Austin Maddox. (You did use the word 'possible'.)

I thought we cut him.

[moonslav59]

We are going to have to improve on that lineup.

Yes. I think we need at least one very good RP'er or two solid RP'ers.

This might be more accurate:

________
Barnes
Brasier
_______
Hembree
Workman
Thornburg

Johnson/Vezaquez/Wright

Poyner
Scott
Walden
Brewer
Lakins
Josh Taylor
Shawaryn/Shepherd/Josh Smith
Feltman

[Bellhorn04]

I thought we cut him.

He was 'outrighted' to Pawtucket.

[moonslav59]

He was 'outrighted' to Pawtucket.

I'm glad he's still in the system. I thought he showed promise before the injury.

[dgalehouse]

Can never have too much pitching depth, as they say. However , it is difficult to substitute quantity for quality if you want to succeed at a high level. Hoping to get lucky is usually not a good strategy.

[notin]

Can never have too much pitching depth, as they say. However , it is difficult to substitute quantity for quality if you want to succeed at a high level. Hoping to get lucky is usually not a good strategy.

So you think Dombrowski is hoping to get lucky?

[dgalehouse]

So you think Dombrowski is hoping to get lucky?

No , I don't. What I like about Dombrowski is that he goes for quality. Some fans seem to prefer collecting a number of mediocrities hoping to find that elusive diamond in the rough. Let's not pin our hopes on guys like Maddox , Poyner , Workman , etc.

[moonslav59]

So you think Dombrowski is hoping to get lucky?

I think he is planning to improve his pen (luck) by obtaining 2 pitchers.

[notin]

No , I don't. What I like about Dombrowski is that he goes for quality. Some fans seem to prefer collecting a number of mediocrities hoping to find that elusive diamond in the rough. Let's not pin our hopes on guys like Maddox , Poyner , Workman , etc.

But Dombrowski did try and get that elusive “diamond in the rough” with his signings of fringe Major League talent like Marcus Walden and Chris Smith. He did strike gold with Ryan Brasier using this same tactic.

The guys you named were all farm system products he inherited. The irony is, every time I suggest signing minor league free agent pitchers, someone always suggests giving those chances to farm system products like Maddox and Poyner and Workman.

My biggest gripe with Dombrowski is he doesn’t take enough chances with risk-free minor league contracts. He dabbles and it occasionally works out, but it is a numbers game...

[dgalehouse]

But Dombrowski did try and get that elusive “diamond in the rough” with his signings of fringe Major League talent like Marcus Walden and Chris Smith. He did strike gold with Ryan Brasier using this same tactic.

The guys you named were all farm system products he inherited. The irony is, every time I suggest signing minor league free agent pitchers, someone always suggests giving those chances to farm system products like Maddox and Poyner and Workman.

My biggest gripe with Dombrowski is he doesn’t take enough chances with risk-free minor league contracts. He dabbles and it occasionally works out, but it is a numbers game...

I don't necessarily disagree with that . But as to this year's bullpen , I think we need a couple of quality arms to replace Kimbrel and Kelly. If we can find a somewhat obscure gem like Brasier , fine.

[notin]

U
I don't necessarily disagree with that . But as to this year's bullpen , I think we need a couple of quality arms to replace Kimbrel and Kelly. If we can find a somewhat obscure gem like Brasier , fine.

If Thornburg can return to form, he has one. But Kevlly and Kimbrel gave the team about 125 IP so further help is needed. I expect an experienced closer to be added. If the Sox add two relievers (and everyone is healthy), someone has to go. Soxprospects.com seems to think Workman is on the bubble...

[moonslav59]

U

If Thornburg can return to form, he has one. But Kevlly and Kimbrel gave the team about 125 IP so further help is needed. I expect an experienced closer to be added. If the Sox add two relievers (and everyone is healthy), someone has to go. Soxprospects.com seems to think Workman is on the bubble...

We didn't count on Brasier at the start of the year, but he did well. It's hard to plan on "getting lucky" again, but you are right- sign more guys like Brasier and you have a better chance one turns into Brasier.

As for the 125 IP'd (less than 1/5th of our total RP IP, but most were very important ones) needing to be replaced, we could possibly, barring injuries to any pen arm, get more from these guys.

Relief IP in 2018
62 Barnes same
60 Hembree same
55 Velazquez same, maybe more if no starts
41 Workman maybe +10-20
39 Johnson same, maybe more if no starts
34 Brasier should be +25-30
30 Wright who knows?
24 Thornburg maybe +25-30
22 Poyner maybe +25-40
15 Walden who knows?
7 Scott who knows?

Gone
65.2 Kimbrel
62.1 Kelly
22.2 Pom
15.0 Cuevas
14.1 Smith
7.2 Haley
2.1 Beeks

[Larry Cook]

We could always sign buchholz as a bullpen guy!

And keep in mind Feltman and Lakin’s should be in Boston in 2019!

[oldtimer]

U

If Thornburg can return to form, he has one. But Kevlly and Kimbrel gave the team about 125 IP so further help is needed. I expect an experienced closer to be added. If the Sox add two relievers (and everyone is healthy), someone has to go. Soxprospects.com seems to think Workman is on the bubble...

The Thornburg signing tells me the coaches think there is hope for him going forward. We do have some minor league potential so maybe only one reliever would be adequate if we can get a starter like Eovaldi.

[notin]

The Thornburg signing tells me the coaches think there is hope for him going forward. We do have some minor league potential so maybe only one reliever would be adequate if we can get a starter like Eovaldi.

Hopefully the Sox ignore the minor league bullpen options right now. They’re going to use maybe 12-15 relievers this year, which means they will be calling up 5-7 minor league relief pitchers as it is. Let’s save Durban, Lakins, etc. for that list...

[Kimmi]

The Thornburg signing tells me the coaches think there is hope for him going forward. We do have some minor league potential so maybe only one reliever would be adequate if we can get a starter like Eovaldi.

I do have hope for Thornburg going forward, but I'm not comfortable depending on him in any significant role. I will be surprised if Dave does not sign a well known closer plus at least one other reliever. This is in addition to adding another starter like Eovaldi.

[Kimmi]

Hopefully the Sox ignore the minor league bullpen options right now. They’re going to use maybe 12-15 relievers this year, which means they will be calling up 5-7 minor league relief pitchers as it is. Let’s save Durban, Lakins, etc. for that list...

Depth, depth, depth, and more depth.

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s a cheap contract for a guy who at his peak is nasty. It’s a cheap hope that he regains form

[Fisk]

It’s a cheap contract for a guy who at his peak is nasty. It’s a cheap hope that he regains form

Easy to take a flier on Thornburg in hopes he regains his form. Not a guaranteed contract so can always cut him loose in the spring.

[Kimmi]

It’s a cheap contract for a guy who at his peak is nasty. It’s a cheap hope that he regains form


Easy to take a flier on Thornburg in hopes he regains his form. Not a guaranteed contract so can always cut him loose in the spring.

Exactly.

[Larry Cook]

Much like s bad case of herpies, he’s back again!

[Dojji]

Hard to deny that we'd rather have Travis Shaw playing 1B for us right now... but I'm cautiously optimistic on Thornburg.

[moonslav59]

Hard to deny that we'd rather have Travis Shaw playing 1B for us right now... but I'm cautiously optimistic on Thornburg.

How about Travis Shaw at 2B for us?

[notin]

How about Travis Shaw at 2B for us?

Why?

Milwaukee only played him there because they acquired Moustakas to play third and the Hernan Perez/Jonathan Schoop duo had their weaknesses and Milwaukee couldn’t or didn’t think they could tolerate them. Shaw at 2b was not a defensive success, but rather Jim Hendry-style experiment of jamming the best 9 hitters into the lineup and working out the positions later.

I’d take Brock Holt over him at 2b everyday. I’d even take Blake Swihart at 2b over him as well...

[notin]

Easy to take a flier on Thornburg in hopes he regains his form. Not a guaranteed contract so can always cut him loose in the spring.

The Sox probably acquire two relievers to replace the departed Kimbrel and Kelly. If that actually does happen, I’m going to guess that leaves Thornburg, Johnson and Workman battling foe two spots. Johnson probably has the upper hand because he is left-handed and has had success as a spot starter. As TO surgery is apparently not the easiest thing to recover from, Workman is the de facto insurance policy against Thornburg ever regaining form...

[kenmeister]

The Shaw-Thornburg trade is the only real miss I've seen in Dombrowski's tenure so far.

[Dojji]

How about Travis Shaw at 2B for us?

Travis Shaw was well below average at second base. Good hands, great even, but didn't have the range. Which is about what we expected considering his track record as a very sure-handed 3Bman.

If we had Travis Shaw though, Devers would probably be breaking in as a 1Bman. Shaw has been superb defensively at 3B by any reasonable metric. He's been a ~4 bWAR player over 2 years in Milwaukee, we really should not have let him go. It's water under the bridge now of course but hopefully also a lesson learned.

[notin]

Travis Shaw was well below average at second base. Good hands, great even, but didn't have the range. Which is about what we expected considering his track record as a very sure-handed 3Bman.

If we had Travis Shaw though, Devers would probably be breaking in as a 1Bman. Shaw has been superb defensively at 3B by any reasonable metric. He's been a ~4 bWAR player over 2 years in Milwaukee, we really should not have let him go. It's water under the bridge now of course but hopefully also a lesson learned.

Gotta keep those sons of Major Leaguers. Toronto has built a premier system around them (Vlad Jr, Bo Bichette, Cavan Biggio, Dwight Smith Jr)...

[moonslav59]

Travis Shaw was well below average at second base. Good hands, great even, but didn't have the range. Which is about what we expected considering his track record as a very sure-handed 3Bman.

If we had Travis Shaw though, Devers would probably be breaking in as a 1Bman. Shaw has been superb defensively at 3B by any reasonable metric. He's been a ~4 bWAR player over 2 years in Milwaukee, we really should not have let him go. It's water under the bridge now of course but hopefully also a lesson learned.

I was kind of half-joking, although his bat would outweigh the differential between his defense and Nunez at 2B. Holt is not all that great on defense, either. A hobbled Pedey is an unknown on D.

Yes, I'd prefer Travis at 3B on D over Devers and Nunez.

[moonslav59]

The Shaw-Thornburg trade is the only real miss I've seen in Dombrowski's tenure so far.

The jury is still out on some deals...like Buttrey for Kinsler, but not really any of the major ones, except maybe Pom.

[Bellhorn04]

The Shaw-Thornburg trade is the only real miss I've seen in Dombrowski's tenure so far.

And when you're making a bunch of moves it's guaranteed there will be misses.

[notin]

And when you're making a bunch of moves it's guaranteed there will be misses.

The only GMs who never make bad moves are the GMs who make no moves...

[sk7326]

So you think Dombrowski is hoping to get lucky?

To a point. We know the team will enter the spring with a Thornburg and a few others of the same ilk - you expect one or two to hit, but you don't know who. For a bullpen it is a useful approach - performance fluctuations year to year are pretty large. It is very hard to expect and get more than 2-3 consecutive good seasons from any of them.