What Does the Acquisition of Rusney Castillo mean for Bradley?

[a700hitter]

I think that he will not be getting a chance to be our CF anytime soon.

[Station 13]

Cherrington just said Castillo is the starting CF. JBJ isn't ready to be on the 2015 team anyway.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Weren't Castillo's Cuba numbers pretty unimpressive? Seems like a pointless signing to me.

[Station 13]

"Castillo, 27, hit .319 with 75 doubles, 11 triples, 51 home runs, 99 walks, 256 runs scored, and 76 stolen bases in 360 games over five seasons in Cuba’€™s major league" EEI

Hopefully that's around .270/.330/.400 in MLB

[Spudboy]

Bardley will be in Pawtucket to start 2015 ( although he will be in ST ) or he will be dealt this winter or next season.

He still has value.

[Thunder]

JBJ will slowly crawl into a hole and die after the Red Sox trade him and Middlebrooks.

[a700hitter]

Bardley will be in Pawtucket to start 2015 ( although he will be in ST ) or he will be dealt this winter or next season.

He still has value.Yes, he still has value, but it has depreciated probably by 75%.

[Behindenemylines]

If JBJ could ever find a swing that will work for him he would be a CF that a lot of teams would have interest in.

[gojohn99]

I think JBJ will be in Triple A, WMB will be gone.

[Behindenemylines]

I think JBJ will be in Triple A, WMB will be gone.

WMB is in the same boat as JBJ. He has not shown he can hit consistently in the majors. Both could be moved to help rebuild the staff, but both of their values aren't what they use to be.

[SimplyMarie]

Agreed...I hope for him he can make it work. I saw him play back in Single A and he's always been a pretty exciting player to watch. Just hope he finds his swing.

[Behindenemylines]

Agreed...I hope for him he can make it work. I saw him play back in Single A and he's always been a pretty exciting player to watch. Just hope he finds his swing.

I like the guy as well. Maybe the Sox don't move him this off season and he starts the year in AAA. He finds his swing and by 2016 he is back in CF and Castillo is in RF. At this point you can only hope.

[Yaz Fan Since '67]

WMB is in the same boat as JBJ. He has not shown he can hit consistently in the majors. Both could be moved to help rebuild the staff, but both of their values aren't what they use to be.

How much could you possibly expect in return for 2 guys who can't hit ML pitching? Middlebrooks has very little value at this point.

[Behindenemylines]

If JBJ every finds his stroke I don't think it will be in a Red Sox uniform.

[Behindenemylines]

How much could you possibly expect in return for 2 guys who can't hit ML pitching? Middlebrooks has very little value at this point.

Believe it or not there are teams that still have interest in WMB's power potential.

[a700hitter]

Believe it or not there are teams that still have interest in WMB's power potential.i can see teams willing to take on a project that could turn into a 30 home run low obp player, but not for a project that might become a .250 hitter with no power.

[Behindenemylines]

If he is still with the Sox in 2015 it will be at AAA, unless injuries allow him to return to CF in Boston. You can't say he didn't get a fair shot of winning the job.

[jacksonianmarch]

Look at your OF for 2015...

Cespedes, Castillo, Betts, Craig, Victorino

Cespedes is an impending FA and could be dealt by mid season if the sox suck again.

Castillo hasn't played continuous baseball for 3 years, he's probably not playing 162 next yr.

Betts is probably going to be in your IF next yr

Craig and Victorino cannot stay healthy.

I find it hard to believe that Bradley gets moved because he at the very least offers elite D as a 4th OFer. 2015 will be his final option yr, so he wont be part of a roster crunch if he has to get moved down. And chances are, he spends significant time in your OF in 2015.

[a700hitter]

Look at your OF for 2015...

Cespedes, Castillo, Betts, Craig, Victorino

Cespedes is an impending FA and could be dealt by mid season if the sox suck again.

Castillo hasn't played continuous baseball for 3 years, he's probably not playing 162 next yr.

Betts is probably going to be in your IF next yr

Craig and Victorino cannot stay healthy.

I find it hard to believe that Bradley gets moved because he at the very least offers elite D as a 4th OFer. 2015 will be his final option yr, so he wont be part of a roster crunch if he has to get moved down. And chances are, he spends significant time in your OF in 2015.he'll get less than 100 ABs in the OF in 2015.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he's gonna get 200 or so. He'll probably make the opening day roster due to someone being hurt and then will be starting after the ASB when the sox deal away some contract yr talent

[a700hitter]

I think he's gonna get 200 or so. He'll probably make the opening day roster due to someone being hurt and then will be starting after the ASB when the sox deal away some contract yr talentthere is no way he makes the opening day roster unless the entire starting outfield is on the DL. He needs to learn to hit. He will not get enough ABs in spring training toprove himself and win a job.

[seabeachfred]

there is no way he makes the opening day roster unless the entire starting outfield is on the DL. He needs to learn to hit. He will not get enough ABs in spring training toprove himself and win a job.

I don't know Ted. I think Jacko might have something there. I get the nasty feeling that someone high in the Red Sox chain of command loves this bum and will do everything possible to try and shoehorn him into the lineup somewhere along the line. The guy should be traded out of the American League to some NL team that can use a fourth outfielder because the guy doesn't look like he is going to hit worth a damn and he sure as hell has proven that he is not a coachable player. Punch the turd's ticket out of town.

[jacksonianmarch]

You've got plenty of injury concerns. If some of them play out come opening day, he'll be playing. People like him because he brings elite D in the OF. When you have a 4th OFer, typically defense and then speed are requirements. He has the D and has enough speed to be useful on the bases

[seabeachfred]

You've got plenty of injury concerns. If some of them play out come opening day, he'll be playing. People like him because he brings elite D in the OF. When you have a 4th OFer, typically defense and then speed are requirements. He has the D and has enough speed to be useful on the bases

Good Jacko.....tell you what, why don't you take him off our hands. Fact is, your Yankees wouldn't touch Bradley with a hot iron.

[Bellhorn04]

Bradley would be the perfect late inning defensive specialist. He doesn't enter the game unless you have a late lead. It could work pretty well.

[Spudboy]

I don't see a defensive specialist as a requirement on a MLB roster. I doubt teams want to waste 1 of 25 spots on someone who is limited to performing only one aspect of the game. That would be like having one player designated to be the base stealer in tight situations. Charley Finley tried that. It did not work.

Players that ascend to the highest level of play should have all the skills to play in any situation.

I have no idea what Bradley's problem is and what it will take to fix it. I say start him in Pawtucket and let him play and hopefully hit there for all of 2015.
If he can do that he could be very useful.

Presently, I'm more concerned about what the Sox will do with Victorino and Craig. And I would be shopping Cespedes too. If he is moved I'll miss the power and nothing else. He sucks in left field and most Sox fans are reluctant to acknowledge this for some reason.

The Sox outfield is still a mess. Hopefully Betts will still be here in April.

[Palodios]

Spud, you seem to be one of the few so low on Cespedes and his defense. Why ? UZR considers him a good left fielder over 2000+ innings.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't see a defensive specialist as a requirement on a MLB roster. I doubt teams want to waste 1 of 25 spots on someone who is limited to performing only one aspect of the game. That would be like having one player designated to be the base stealer in tight situations. Charley Finley tried that. It did not work.

Players that ascend to the highest level of play should have all the skills to play in any situation.

a) Bradley would certainly get much more playing time than Herb Washington did.
b) Designated Hitter David Ortiz might get in the Hall of Fame.
c) I'm just throwing shit out there. :)

[Spudboy]

Spud, you seem to be one of the few so low on Cespedes and his defense. Why ? UZR considers him a good left fielder over 2000+ innings.

No offense Pal but I have seen him make a ton of poor plays. And as you know I do not subscribe to some of the advanced defense metrics. I don't care to get into a discussion about UZR. I do understand how it is derived and I think that it is inaccurate and subjective. So as long as a stat is based on subjectivity I will trust my own eyes and judgment.

As far as me being one of the few who see his defensive flaws, that may be so on this board. But as recently as yesterday Gordon Edes talked about his overrated defense and how sloppy his play is. I do like the offense he brings to the Sox lineup. Otherwise I see Cespedes as little more than Gomes "Warmed Over" ( to borrow a Fredism! ) with a strong and mostly accurate arm.

So there is your answer my Pal!

[Spudboy]

a) Bradley would certainly get much more playing time than Herb Washington did.
b) Designated Hitter David Ortiz might get in the Hall of Fame.
c) I'm just throwing shit out there. :)

After I made my post I sort of regretted it because I did not want you to think that I was attacking you or your opinions. It's just how I feel. Was it Herb Washington? I seem to remember the Washington part along with the white shoes!!!!!

I too believe that Ortizzle will get into the hall and I hope that he can play in 2016 so he surpasses the 500 HR mark. I don't know if that will get him into the Hall because Martinez is still not in and many people are of the opinion that Ortiz was not a "complete" player as a DH. Screw that. Starting pitchers play only every 5 days and they are elected to the HOF.

I hope that we are cool!! :p

[Spudboy]

Triple Post Warning!!!!

For Pal: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/40923/red-sox-offseason-primer-outfield?ex_cid=espnapi_public


"I expect Cespedes to test free agency. I've seen a little regression in his game since he first came over from Cuba, and I don't think he's a good corner outfielder. A lot of his highlight plays came out of misplays. His whole effort level, to me, was greater when he first came here. He'll produce offense in real good spurts, but I'm not buying the total package. I guarantee you there will be no hometown discounts. For me, a lot of yellow flags."

[seabeachfred]

Bradley would be the perfect late inning defensive specialist. He doesn't enter the game unless you have a late lead. It could work pretty well.

Not with our manager Bellhorn. We saw how he kept running the guy out there time after time this past season, and even when he benched him it was for a day or two and then right back into the lineup to screw up some more. No!!! In my opinion the safest thing for the Red Sox would be to get him out of town....fast!!!!!!!!

[vjcsmoke]

Good Jacko.....tell you what, why don't you take him off our hands. Fact is, your Yankees wouldn't touch Bradley with a hot iron.

Maybe that's because the Yankees already have Jacoby Ellsbury?
It's true that right now Jackie Bradley Junior looks like he is playing with a wiffle bat. IE No idea how to hit.
But considering that our only OF locks are Rusney Castillo and 1 year of Cespedes, there's room for a 4th outfielder who can field and run the bases.

I'm not a believer in the rest of the current Red Sox outfield and unless by some miraculous chance we land Giancarlo Stanton, there's still big ? marks about Victorino and/or Allen Craig.

JBJ is the least of our problems and right now JBJ's value is low. What can we even get for him?
This is the same problem we face with Buchholz. He has low trade value but he's way too inconsistent to be a dependable top of the rotation starter for us.
Sure I'd like to upgrade on him and I'd be willing to move him, but who could we get in return??

Now if we could trade a package of Buccholz, JBJ, and prospects for Cole Hamels, I would drive them to the airport myself. But realistically, are these guys wanted by anybody right now?

[Spudboy]

I bet someone would bite on Buchholtz. Especially if the Sox had to pays some of his tab.

Sure, his value is lower than it was in the first half of 2013. But he has demonstrated dominant stuff in spurts. That is always tantalizing to teams.

[Bellhorn04]

I bet someone would bite on Buchholtz. Especially if the Sox had to pays some of his tab.

Sure, his value is lower than it was in the first half of 2013. But he has demonstrated dominant stuff in spurts. That is always tantalizing to teams.

Yes. It continues to tantalize the Red Sox too.

I don't think we can afford to trade an experienced starter right now. We're not exactly operating with a surplus.

[a700hitter]

Bradley would be the perfect late inning defensive specialist. He doesn't enter the game unless you have a late lead. It could work pretty well.MLB rosters are too heavy with 12 pitchers to have room for a defensive specialist outfielder.

[Northern Star]

I think that he will not be getting a chance to be our CF anytime soon.

Considering he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a fucking boat, I think even 4th OF is a stretch. Can't carry a guy just to be 8th inning defensive replacement.

[TeddyBallgame09]

JBJ is through..........a waste in any batting order. Sox cannot afford an automatic out.

[seabeachfred]

Maybe that's because the Yankees already have Jacoby Ellsbury?
It's true that right now Jackie Bradley Junior looks like he is playing with a wiffle bat. IE No idea how to hit.
But considering that our only OF locks are Rusney Castillo and 1 year of Cespedes, there's room for a 4th outfielder who can field and run the bases.

I'm not a believer in the rest of the current Red Sox outfield and unless by some miraculous chance we land Giancarlo Stanton, there's still big ? marks about Victorino and/or Allen Craig.

JBJ is the least of our problems and right now JBJ's value is low. What can we even get for him?
This is the same problem we face with Buchholz. He has low trade value but he's way too inconsistent to be a dependable top of the rotation starter for us.
Sure I'd like to upgrade on him and I'd be willing to move him, but who could we get in return??

Now if we could trade a package of Buccholz, JBJ, and prospects for Cole Hamels, I would drive them to the airport myself. But realistically, are these guys wanted by anybody right now?

Good to hear from you again VJ, and let me say we might be able to get Cole Hamels for Bucky and JBJ, but there would have to be more like Betts, Swihart and maybe someone like Margot. Hamels isn't going to come cheap and CB and JB are only the appendages to such a trade, the minor segments.

[seabeachfred]

I bet someone would bite on Buchholtz. Especially if the Sox had to pays some of his tab.

Sure, his value is lower than it was in the first half of 2013. But he has demonstrated dominant stuff in spurts. That is always tantalizing to teams.

Spud, it is also tantalizing to Lucchino the meddler who in August called Buchholz our future ace in waiting. How stupid is that? Just what you would expect to hear from a ignorant dork like that. Truth is, though, in spurts Clay has shown he can be an outstanding pitcher. His first half in 2013 showed he was among the very few top pitchers in the game. The question has always been how could the Red Sox get that maximum out of the guy for a whole season? They and everyone connected with the Red Sox from the owner down to the fans are still looking for the answer.

[seabeachfred]

Considering he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a fucking boat, I think even 4th OF is a stretch. Can't carry a guy just to be 8th inning defensive replacement.

NS--I think it's a pretty fair assumption that you're in the majority there. I'm with you, so is 700 Hitter and I'm sure Spud, and others would fall into line on that one.

[sk7326]

They tried to be patient with Bradley - and I'd still be willing to do so. At the same time, it is clear that Betts is the future and Castillo is worth a look. Bradley killed a lot of his value this year - definitely needs a change of scenery.

[Behindenemylines]

Bradley could be a piece in a block buster trade that brings pitching back to the Sox. A lot of those trades have throw in, and he could be that. If it helps get a quality starter I'm good with that.

[a700hitter]

Bradley could be a piece in a block buster trade that brings pitching back to the Sox. A lot of those trades have throw in, and he could be that. If it helps get a quality starter I'm good with that.

I'd be okay getting a coupon for a free Legal Seafoods Clam Chowder for Bradley.

[BSN07]

I'd be okay getting a coupon for a free Legal Seafoods Clam Chowder for Bradley.

I'd hold out for the 2 for 1 special but if they offered 25% off I might jump at it

[sk7326]

I'd hold out for the 2 for 1 special but if they offered 25% off I might jump at it

funny thing with Bradley is, his defense is so good that the offensive threshhold for him to be a real starter is very low. It could be something as simple as shortening his swing and focusing on contact (the sort of adjustment which you can't really make during the season). Sure a .270/.320/.380 slash would not get the heart aflutter, but with his glove that is an average-above average starter. You have to expect it will have to happen somewhere else tho.

[a700hitter]

If he were a centipede with a glove on each leg, his defense will never be enough to justify keeping his bat in a major league batting order.

[BSN07]

funny thing with Bradley is, his defense is so good that the offensive threshhold for him to be a real starter is very low. It could be something as simple as shortening his swing and focusing on contact (the sort of adjustment which you can't really make during the season). Sure a .270/.320/.380 slash would not get the heart aflutter, but with his glove that is an average-above average starter. You have to expect it will have to happen somewhere else tho.

Oh I know, Bradley still has time to get it together, but for all the flailing ab's we had to watch this season, we should be able to take the piss out of him a bit for it :)

[SCM33]

He will never hit.

He is the best defensive 5th OF in baseball.

[Orange Juiced]

JBJ will almost certainly either be traded or start the year in Pawtucket.

[Dojji]

He will never hit.

He is the best defensive 5th OF in baseball.

I wouldn't say 'never." but I will take a second to say a quick toljaso to those who were convinced he was the latest and greatest, sight unseen.

And I'd say the emergence of Betts puts a bigger damper on JBJ's future with Boston than the signing of Castillo does. Castillo is almost completely unproven -- may be great, but you'd better have some plan in mind for what to do if he for some reason isn't. Betts on the other hand is showing that maybe he does have the stuff to get it done, pending what he does this year of course but what he's already done should buy him a good chance to prove he can repeat it.

[Spudboy]

I wouldn't say 'never." but I will take a second to say a quick toljaso to those who were convinced he was the latest and greatest, sight unseen.

And I'd say the emergence of Betts puts a bigger damper on JBJ's future with Boston than the signing of Castillo does. Castillo is almost completely unproven -- may be great, but you'd better have some plan in mind for what to do if he for some reason isn't. Betts on the other hand is showing that maybe he does have the stuff to get it done, pending what he does this year of course but what he's already done should buy him a good chance to prove he can repeat it.

Amen to that.

[seabeachfred]

I wouldn't say 'never." but I will take a second to say a quick toljaso to those who were convinced he was the latest and greatest, sight unseen.

And I'd say the emergence of Betts puts a bigger damper on JBJ's future with Boston than the signing of Castillo does. Castillo is almost completely unproven -- may be great, but you'd better have some plan in mind for what to do if he for some reason isn't. Betts on the other hand is showing that maybe he does have the stuff to get it done, pending what he does this year of course but what he's already done should buy him a good chance to prove he can repeat it.

Well said do. Betts is a keeper unless we have to include him on the very best of pitchers----which I don't think we'll have to do if Cherington can sign Lester (somewhat doubtful) and trade for Cueto or Zimmerman. Bradley, OTOH, is through in Boston. He failed so miserably with the bat and was so uncoachable that they finally had to send him down to Pawtucket where he failed miserably there as well, hitting only 2004. Betts for a long career with the Red Sox and Bradley out of town for a crate of lemons.

[Behindenemylines]

Unless he is needed in a trade to bring back a solid starting pitcher I would start him at AAA where you hope he can find a stroke that works for him. With his D you can live with a .250 hitter. He finds his stroke it opens up a lot of options for the Sox.

[a700hitter]

Unless he is needed in a trade to bring back a solid starting pitcher I would start him at AAA where you hope he can find a stroke that works for him. With his D you can live with a .250 hitter. He finds his stroke it opens up a lot of options for the Sox.Castillo is our long term center fielder. Bradley has no spot on this roster as a starter hitting .250.

[sk7326]

Castillo is our long term center fielder. Bradley has no spot on this roster as a starter hitting .250.

Certainly the Red Sox signed him to be a pillar of the OF, whether it be in CF or RF. What is also true is that Bradley as a C/C- hitter combined with his glove is a legitimate starter for somebody. A B/B- hitter with his glove is a fringy All-Star. He was an F last season - and the question is how much of that is legitimately fixable. Given how much of his failings were driven by trying to impersonate Mike Napoli instead of just focusing on singles, adequate offensive production is not that far away. If I were a team with an opening at CF, I would absolutely throw a handful of magic beans at the Red Sox and see if I could land Bradley.

[a700hitter]

Certainly the Red Sox signed him to be a pillar of the OF, whether it be in CF or RF. What is also true is that Bradley as a C/C- hitter combined with his glove is a legitimate starter for somebody. A B/B- hitter with his glove is a fringy All-Star. He was an F last season - and the question is how much of that is legitimately fixable. Given how much of his failings were driven by trying to impersonate Mike Napoli instead of just focusing on singles, adequate offensive production is not that far away. If I were a team with an opening at CF, I would absolutely throw a handful of magic beans at the Red Sox and see if I could land Bradley.His value is so low that he is worth more to keep as AAA roster filler.

[a700hitter]

If Castillo plays RF, it will be because Betts is playing CF.

[sk7326]

His value is so low that he is worth more to keep as AAA roster filler.

Oh, industrywide I am not sure it is quite that low. After all, the man has a major league skill, and one he does better than just about any person alive. That alone along with his age (not as young as you'd like but still not peak) should have him on many big league radars.

[sk7326]

If Castillo plays RF, it will be because Betts is playing CF.

That's my guess. Betts is one of the team's 3 best OFs and despite the fanfare surrounding Castillo - Betts was ahead of him as of the end of 2014 (understandably given how little baseball Castillo has played recently) and has a 5 year age advantage (and the projection that comes with it). Castillo's arm is not great but better than Betts' too, and it's not like Fenway RF does not require range.

[a700hitter]

Oh, industrywide I am not sure it is quite that low. After all, the man has a major league skill, and one he does better than just about any person alive. That alone along with his age (not as young as you'd like but still not peak) should have him on many big league radars.But other teams will not offer enough to be worth trading him, when the Red Sox can let him play everyday in Pawtucket while trying to learn to hit. His value is low right now. I don't see them selling low on him while he has options.

[Dojji]

I agree. Worst case scenario maybe he can learn to hit enough to be solid off the bench. I see a potential situation devloping with Pedroia's career that could sidetrack the outfield plans we have right now which involve Mookie Betts heavily.

What I'm afraid of is that while he probably still has several good years as a decently productive regular with a great glove, Pedey's days as an elite player are behind him, and that has implications when a player who has the potential to produce the way Mookie potentially could, could play the same position. It's uncomfortable, but a time may come up in the future when we need both Castillo and JBJ to shore up our outfield depth as Betts is needed at his original position.

Besides, Vic's on his last year IIRC, and he was not effective last year, not sure what we can count on him for. Point being, JBJ occupies a spot on the depth chart that it's important to have a warm body in, if we didn't have him we'd need to sign an MLFA of about the same quality, so I can't see a trade.

[sk7326]

I agree. Worst case scenario maybe he can learn to hit enough to be solid off the bench. I see a potential situation devloping with Pedroia's career that could sidetrack the outfield plans we have right now which involve Mookie Betts heavily.

What I'm afraid of is that while he probably still has several good years as a decently productive regular with a great glove, Pedey's days as an elite player are behind him, and that has implications when a player who has the potential to produce the way Mookie potentially could, could play the same position. It's uncomfortable, but a time may come up in the future when we need both Castillo and JBJ to shore up our outfield depth as Betts is needed at his original position.

Besides, Vic's on his last year IIRC, and he was not effective last year, not sure what we can count on him for. Point being, JBJ occupies a spot on the depth chart that it's important to have a warm body in, if we didn't have him we'd need to sign an MLFA of about the same quality, so I can't see a trade.

This makes sense in theory - if we were the only franchise out there. After all, there is only a finite amount of time with a finite amount of resources. This is not college where you redshirt Bradley, especially when there are other teams which would give him a starting gig. That is a poor use of resources. I think we had a version of this discussion with the catcher business. It is nice to want to have double redundancy depth at every position and big league ready prospects waiting for a job position which may or may not actually be opened.

Prospects are future regulars - but they are also currency. If you don't see Bradley cracking the rotation in the next year and change (and I don't) ... then his value shifts to currency. Can he be part of a trade to get a regular we do need? Absolutely - although he will not fetch the same fortune he did before (hitting like a pitcher will do that).

[Spudboy]

Bump.

Could not find a better thread for this topic so I am posting it here.

http://www.bluejaysplus.com/josh-donaldson-swing-adjustment-brett-lawrie/#sthash.d2qxxmJx.mP1kgxhV.dpbs

I stumbled upon this Blog concerning Josh Donaldson's batting adjustments and thought it was interesting.

It was painful to watch JBJ bat in 2014 and it was very discouraging to hear that he was for some reason reluctant to take some advise concerning his plate performance.

At roughly the same age as Bradley, Donaldson made some big adjustments and became a more productive hitter. While I have not looked at his before and after numbers, it's still clear that he went from a poor to above average hitter after a total revamp of his hitting mechanics.

I don't buy into the idea that JBJ "will never hit". The kid is very talented in other phases of the game. I think that he should make the effort that Donaldson made to become a better hitter. He certainly has little to loose!!!

It would be great to see the kid become a complete player. His Defense is so good.

[a700hitter]

Bump.

Could not find a better thread for this topic so I am posting it here.

http://www.bluejaysplus.com/josh-donaldson-swing-adjustment-brett-lawrie/#sthash.d2qxxmJx.mP1kgxhV.dpbs

I stumbled upon this Blog concerning Josh Donaldson's batting adjustments and thought it was interesting.

It was painful to watch JBJ bat in 2014 and it was very discouraging to hear that he was for some reason reluctant to take some advise concerning his plate performance.

At roughly the same age as Bradley, Donaldson made some big adjustments and became a more productive hitter. While I have not looked at his before and after numbers, it's still clear that he went from a poor to above average hitter after a total revamp of his hitting mechanics.

I don't buy into the idea that JBJ "will never hit". The kid is very talented in other phases of the game. I think that he should make the effort that Donaldson made to become a better hitter. He certainly has little to loose!!!

It would be great to see the kid become a complete player. His Defense is so good.Three points. First, Donaldson did not suffer through such a prolonged period of futility as Bradley has suffered through. Second, at 6'0" 220 lbs, Donaldson packs a lot more power than the smallish Bradley. Third, with Castillo, Ramirez, Craig, Victorino, Betts, Holt and Nava still with the team there is zero room for Bradley unless 2 or 3 guys leave or get hurt.

[Elktonnick]

Bump.

Could not find a better thread for this topic so I am posting it here.

http://www.bluejaysplus.com/josh-donaldson-swing-adjustment-brett-lawrie/#sthash.d2qxxmJx.mP1kgxhV.dpbs

I stumbled upon this Blog concerning Josh Donaldson's batting adjustments and thought it was interesting.

It was painful to watch JBJ bat in 2014 and it was very discouraging to hear that he was for some reason reluctant to take some advise concerning his plate performance.

At roughly the same age as Bradley, Donaldson made some big adjustments and became a more productive hitter. While I have not looked at his before and after numbers, it's still clear that he went from a poor to above average hitter after a total revamp of his hitting mechanics

I don't buy into the idea that JBJ "will never hit". The kid is very talented in other phases of the game. I think that he should make the effort that Donaldson made to become a better hitter. He certainly has little to loose!!!

It would be great to see the kid become a complete player. His Defense is so good.

It's not that Bradley "can't" hit. It is he won't hit unless he adjusts his hitting approach. By his own admission he believes he can be another Willie Mays. Well he won't hit like Willie Mays unless he adjusts his mechanics to swing like Willie Mays. Mays stepped into the ball. Bradley has does this funky toe tap thing and ends up swinging flat footed. Bradley loops his bat and has a long swing. I question whether he is really picking up the ball and can recognize what is being thrown.
I am just guessing but I suspect that he thinks his quick feet in the field translates into a quick bat hence his reluctance to change.

[jacksonianmarch]

He isn't gonna hit like Mays unless he gets on the Bonds/Anderson regimen. He said it himself, he relies on his instincts and isn't a student of the game. Guys who really learn how to hit have to know the pitcher inside and out. Scouting isn't just for managers. You have to know what each pitcher goes to in each count so you can make an informed decision at the plate. If he continues to think he can just react up there, then he's never going to improve.

[Elktonnick]

He isn't gonna hit like Mays unless he gets on the Bonds/Anderson regimen. He said it himself, he relies on his instincts and isn't a student of the game. Guys who really learn how to hit have to know the pitcher inside and out. Scouting isn't just for managers. You have to know what each pitcher goes to in each count so you can make an informed decision at the plate. If he continues to think he can just react up there, then he's never going to improve.

I hadn't heard that bit of Bradley saying yjat he "relied on his instincts and isn't a student of the game" That cinches for me. He now succeeds WMB as the dumbest ballplayer on the Red Sox.

[seabeachfred]

He isn't gonna hit like Mays unless he gets on the Bonds/Anderson regimen. He said it himself, he relies on his instincts and isn't a student of the game. Guys who really learn how to hit have to know the pitcher inside and out. Scouting isn't just for managers. You have to know what each pitcher goes to in each count so you can make an informed decision at the plate. If he continues to think he can just react up there, then he's never going to improve.

There are times the Red Sox hold on for dear life to some of their prospects until they fold so badly they have no value left. Bradley cannot hit ML pitching and before he becomes totally useless except as a late inning replacement the team should try like hell to trade him as quickly as possible. If you take his short stay in 2013, his disastrous ST in 2014 and his futile season last year the composite is an average under 200, little power and little speed to steal bases. He is an offensive disaster. Time to punch his ticket out of town IMHO.

[Kimmi]

There are times the Red Sox hold on for dear life to some of their prospects until they fold so badly they have no value left. Bradley cannot hit ML pitching and before he becomes totally useless except as a late inning replacement the team should try like hell to trade him as quickly as possible. If you take his short stay in 2013, his disastrous ST in 2014 and his futile season last year the composite is an average under 200, little power and little speed to steal bases. He is an offensive disaster. Time to punch his ticket out of town IMHO.


Is this the same Bradley who just had to be on the 2013 Opening Day roster after his stellar ST?

He may or may not ever be able to hit ML pitching, but I certainly hope the Sox don't give up on him yet.

[Elktonnick]

If Bradley can't or won't make adjustments at the plate. then he is making himself quite expendable. Look at the top centerfielders in baseball. They all hit. If Bradley fails he has no one to blame but himself

[Spudboy]

I posted this blog because I thought that it was interesting how Donaldson revamped his batting and became more productive.

I see no reason why Bradley can not or will not be able to do the same. Of course if he is an obstinate little d bag and refuses to try then at that point you say bye bye.

He is a very athletic and talented baseball player with one giant flaw. I say stick with him IF and only IF he make an effort to fix his bat.

The idea that Bradley is slow is absurd. He is not Ricky Henderson or Lou Brock. Is Pedroia fast?

You pretty much have to get on base consistently to steal bases.

I was not comparing Donaldson and Bradley as physical specimens.

Although with proper mechanics allowing his hips and torso to be used to advantage, Bradley could conceivably become a more "powerful" hitter. That is just physics.

I just want to see the guy hit. Hopefully in Boston but if elsewhere so be it.

[a700hitter]

I posted this blog because I thought that it was interesting how Donaldson revamped his batting and became more productive.

I see no reason why Bradley can not or will not be able to do the same. Of course if he is an obstinate little d bag and refuses to try then at that point you say bye bye.

He is a very athletic and talented baseball player with one giant flaw. I say stick with him IF and only IF he make an effort to fix his bat.

The idea that Bradley is slow is absurd. He is not Ricky Henderson or Lou Brock. Is Pedroia fast?

You pretty much have to get on base consistently to steal bases.

I was not comparing Donaldson and Bradley as physical specimens.

Although with proper mechanics allowing his hips and torso to be used to advantage, Bradley could conceivably become a more "powerful" hitter. That is just physics.

I just want to see the guy hit. Hopefully in Boston but if elsewhere so be it.

The guy is not a basestealer. He has good speed, but he is neither a burner or base stealer. Pete, being a great fielder doesn't mean that you have the talent to have a good stick. The list of great fielders with no bat is a long one in the history of baseball. I was baffled when I was a kid that fielding geniuses like Mark Belanger and Buddy Harrelson could never hit.

You are also overlooking that this kid is very small. He would need to raise his OBP 60 points to be serviceable with the bat, because there is no power coming with that bat. Finally, the Red Sox have given up on him. The Roster is full of outfielders. He would need a plne crash to get back to Fenway.

[seabeachfred]

Is this the same Bradley who just had to be on the 2013 Opening Day roster after his stellar ST?

He may or may not ever be able to hit ML pitching, but I certainly hope the Sox don't give up on him yet.

Maybe in your opinion Kimmi, but by the end of ST last year there were at least a half-dozen posters here who insisted that this guy was not going to hit and should be sent down----and when they finally threw in the towel and did send him down he didn't hit worth a damn at Pawtucket either.....204. Punch hit ticket out of town.

[a700hitter]

Maybe in your opinion Kimmi, but by the end of ST last year there were at least a half-dozen posters here who insisted that this guy was not going to hit and should be sent down----and when they finally threw in the towel and did send him down he didn't hit worth a damn at Pawtucket either.....204. Punch hit ticket out of town.If I had to bet, I'd say that it is more likely that he will be out of baseball than starting for the Red Sox.

[mvp 78]

Maybe in your opinion Kimmi, but by the end of ST last year there were at least a half-dozen posters here who insisted that this guy was not going to hit and should be sent down----and when they finally threw in the towel and did send him down he didn't hit worth a damn at Pawtucket either.....204. Punch hit ticket out of town.

And at the end of 2011, there were even more people on here enamored with Lavarnway. Sometimes you have to let things play out before you come to sweeping conclusions.

[Elktonnick]

The guy is not a basestealer. He has good speed, but he is neither a burner or base stealer. Pete, being a great fielder doesn't mean that you have the talent to have a good stick. The list of great fielders with no bat is a long one in the history of baseball. I was baffled when I was a kid that fielding geniuses like Mark Belanger and Buddy Harrelson could never hit.

You are also overlooking that this kid is very small. He would need to raise his OBP 60 points to be serviceable with the bat, because there is no power coming with that bat. Finally, the Red Sox have given up on him. The Roster is full of outfielders. He would need a plne crash to get back to Fenway.

Bradley has the speed to steal bases but he isn't on base enough to learn the art of base stealing. If he doesn't have the patience to study pitchers as a hitter he certainly doesn't have the patience to learn stealing.

One gets the feeling that he is pigheaded.

[Bellhorn04]

We'll find out a lot about Bradley this year. Surely last year was a humbling experience.

[Kimmi]

Maybe in your opinion Kimmi, but by the end of ST last year there were at least a half-dozen posters here who insisted that this guy was not going to hit and should be sent down----and when they finally threw in the towel and did send him down he didn't hit worth a damn at Pawtucket either.....204. Punch hit ticket out of town.


No, not in my opinion Fred. I get as excited about our youngsters as anyone, but I am not one to annoint someone the next best thing based on small sample sizes. I was wondering if you were insisting that he be on the roster to open 2013, rather than being sent down.

[mvp 78]

No, not in my opinion Fred. I get as excited about our youngsters as anyone, but I am not one to annoint someone the next best thing based on small sample sizes. I was wondering if you were insisting that he be on the roster to open 2013, rather than being sent down.

That was the height of Fred's anti-Victorino madness. I'm willing to bet his house that he wanted JBJ around.

[Kimmi]

If Bradley can't or won't make adjustments at the plate. then he is making himself quite expendable. Look at the top centerfielders in baseball. They all hit. If Bradley fails he has no one to blame but himself


If Bradley indeed isn't willing to make adjustments, then he is punching his own ticket out of town, kind of like Middlebrooks refusing to play winter ball. After two partial seasons of hitting below .200, he has to know that his way isn't working. I liked what I read about this kid last offseason - how he came to camp early and seemed like he would do whatever it takes to win and keep the CF job. Hopefully, he still has that kind of attitude.

[Elktonnick]

We'll find out a lot about Bradley this year. Surely last year was a humbling experience.

I certainly hope he learns from it. I am looking forward to see how he handles the adversity. Don't get me wrong, I love to see mature into a sold centerfielder. He has an up hill battle now. He simply has got to revamp his approach at the plate.

[Kimmi]

That was the height of Fred's anti-Victorino madness. I'm willing to bet his house that he wanted JBJ around.


LOL I'll give Fred the benefit of the doubt on this one since I honestly don't know if he was clamoring for JBJ or not. I know that Fred likes offense. So it wouldn't surprise me if he insisted that JBJ be around when he was swinging a hot bat.

[mvp 78]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16254-Why-not-keep-Ellsbury-and-Bradley-together-for-years-to-come/page6

Fred calls JBJ the real deal here. I'll give him credit that he thought a JBJ/Ells/Vic outfield would be great defensively and for wanting Gomes to get at bats.

[a700hitter]

LOL I'll give Fred the benefit of the doubt on this one since I honestly don't know if he was clamoring for JBJ or not. I know that Fred likes offense. So it wouldn't surprise me if he insisted that JBJ be around when he was swinging a hot bat.When I saw him in Spring Training 2013, I liked his aggressiveness at the plate and thought that he would be okay offensively, but he blew his chance in a major way. He will need a metamorphosis offensively to get another chance. It didn't happen with WMB and he has the element of big power that Bradley doesn't have.

[cp176]

When I saw him in Spring Training 2013, I liked his aggressiveness at the plate and thought that he would be okay offensively, but he blew his chance in a major way. He will need a metamorphosis offensively to get another chance. It didn't happen with WMB and he has the element of big power that Bradley doesn't have.

Watching JBJ in Portland, anyone would have been remiss not to have hit him with the old can't miss stick. It was a no-brainer. Made me realize what a tremendous step up it is from double to triple A. Moving from the minors to the bigs is a step that has to be huge. I wish him well but I don't think the Sox have great hopes for him. Pretty sure that the moves they have made have sent a message to him. I thought that he was going to be more of a contact hitter. His struggles at the plate have really surprised me.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bradley said he doesn't study tape. He said he relies on his hands and his eyes to read the pitch and hit. He said it before a Sox Yankee game last yr. That is foolish

[Kimmi]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16254-Why-not-keep-Ellsbury-and-Bradley-together-for-years-to-come/page6

Fred calls JBJ the real deal here. I'll give him credit that he thought a JBJ/Ells/Vic outfield would be great defensively and for wanting Gomes to get at bats.


You can't really blame anyone for getting excited about JBJ after his hot ST. I know it's sometimes hard, but it would be nice if fans could temper their emotions some, and not make rash judgments, good or bad, based on a few weeks.

[Kimmi]

When I saw him in Spring Training 2013, I liked his aggressiveness at the plate and thought that he would be okay offensively, but he blew his chance in a major way. He will need a metamorphosis offensively to get another chance. It didn't happen with WMB and he has the element of big power that Bradley doesn't have.


I'm not a hitting coach, nor do I know a lot about the mechanics, but it seems like if it were something in his mechanics, it could be fixed easily enough. If it's in his pitch recognition and he's unwilling to "do his homework", then I don't suppose there's a lot that can be done to help him. To me, he doesn't seem like the stubborn type. I've always taken him to be someone who is willing to do what it takes.

[Kimmi]

Watching JBJ in Portland, anyone would have been remiss not to have hit him with the old can't miss stick. It was a no-brainer. Made me realize what a tremendous step up it is from double to triple A. Moving from the minors to the bigs is a step that has to be huge. I wish him well but I don't think the Sox have great hopes for him. Pretty sure that the moves they have made have sent a message to him. I thought that he was going to be more of a contact hitter. His struggles at the plate have really surprised me.


The moves certainly don't bode well for him. However, he still has options so I don't see any rush in trying to move him. If nothing else, perhaps he can at least raise his value by improving his offense some.

[cp176]

The moves certainly don't bode well for him. However, he still has options so I don't see any rush in trying to move him. If nothing else, perhaps he can at least raise his value by improving his offense some.

Hard to imagine someone that has his talent not being able help somehow. Your posts are refreshingly non-negative even in disagreement. I have learned a great deal from just reading posts. Negative comments directed toward front office personnel or actually players is much easier for me to live with then when they are directed at posters no matter what they have to say. They are entitled to their opinions. Couple of vampires on the board who only appear when they have the opportunity to attack others. They actually have on occasion something interesting to say - worth reading for sure. It would be much more interesting without the nastiness which gets attached often like a little addendum. So - keep bringing those solid posts.

[Spudboy]

That was the height of Fred's anti-Victorino madness. I'm willing to bet his house that he wanted JBJ around.

I wasn't on the board much then. Wow.

I wish that I had not missed that!

[cp176]

I wasn't on the board much then. Wow.

I wish that I had not missed that!

Fred is a baseball guy all the way. If Victorino can stay on the field we will all love him. Can he stay healthy?

[Spudboy]

Hard to imagine someone that has his talent not being able help somehow. Your posts are refreshingly non-negative even in disagreement. I have learned a great deal from just reading posts. Negative comments directed toward front office personnel or actually players is much easier for me to live with then when they are directed at posters no matter what they have to say. They are entitled to their opinions. Couple of vampires on the board who only appear when they have the opportunity to attack others. They actually have on occasion something interesting to say - worth reading for sure. It would be much more interesting without the nastiness which gets attached often like a little addendum. So - keep bringing those solid posts.

Yup. I was new to message boards when I came here in 2009 and was alarmed at the immature behavior. It's part of the game here on talksox and from what I have seen elsewhere on the net too.

[Spudboy]

Fred is a baseball guy all the way. If Victorino can stay on the field we will all love him. Can he stay healthy?

I certainly don't know. But given his age, his recent injury history, and that his game is based on speed, my guess is that he won't be able to stay healthy.

If he is healthy I see him taking away playing time from Betts which is too bad.

We'll see.

[a700hitter]

Yup. I was new to message boards when I came here in 2009 and was alarmed at the immature behavior. It's part of the game here on talksox and from what I have seen elsewhere on the net too.Kimmi is a good addition demonstrating that you can disagree without being disagreeable or snarky.

[cp176]

Kimmi is a good addition demonstrating that you can disagree without being disagreeable or snarky.

Absolutely -

[cp176]

I certainly don't know. But given his age, his recent injury history, and that his game is based on speed, my guess is that he won't be able to stay healthy.

If he is healthy I see him taking away playing time from Betts which is too bad.

We'll see.

If Vic stays healthy, any number of things can happen. We know very little about Castillo and the signing of Ramirez raises eyebrows. He has played in 100 plus games once in the last 5 years. At one point in time he displayed good power. Does he still have it. Can he even play left field with any competency? We would like to think so but really don't know. I am not a big
Hanley Ramirez guy but he doesn't need fans. If you just listen to him he will tell you how good he is. He has on many occasions. I think that Mookie stands a chance to play a great deal with that much uncertainty out there.

[seabeachfred]

No, not in my opinion Fred. I get as excited about our youngsters as anyone, but I am not one to annoint someone the next best thing based on small sample sizes. I was wondering if you were insisting that he be on the roster to open 2013, rather than being sent down.

I was talking about 2014, not 2013. I had no idea how good Bradley was at the beginning of that season. The truth is I did believe he would be able to hold the job when we lost Ellsbury to the Yankees but changed my mind radically when I saw how bad he looked in ST in 2014. He was utterly pathetic and it was then I soured on him. It is important to keep facts straight, something someone on this board has trouble doing visa via Victorino.

[seabeachfred]

That was the height of Fred's anti-Victorino madness. I'm willing to bet his house that he wanted JBJ around.

Read the post I sent to Kimmi and you'll know fully well what I thought of Bradley before ST 2014 and after that ST. As far as my anti-Victorino madness, please stop the nonsense will you. My take on Shane was that when we signed him I thought it a big mistake considering how poorly he played in 2012 for the Phillies and Dodgers. It took me less than a week to see my mistake when the 2013 got underway because I became one of his biggest fans. At least be open minded and know the full picture before you go running off with your assertions.

[seabeachfred]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16254-Why-not-keep-Ellsbury-and-Bradley-together-for-years-to-come/page6

Fred calls JBJ the real deal here. I'll give him credit that he thought a JBJ/Ells/Vic outfield would be great defensively and for wanting Gomes to get at bats.

I had no gripe against Bradley before the 2013 season---it was the 2014 ST season that soured me on him. Repeat....Spring Training 2014. He was very bad that March and looked lost at the plate. As for 2013, I felt we might be able to carry Bradley if Gomes got his licks against LH pitchers, and as you observed I had come full circle on Victorino. In fact Bradley did impress me in ST 2013 even if before that I knew little about him save for the fact that he had hit pretty well in "A" and Double "A" ball.. Glad you got that cleared up.

[a700hitter]

Read the post I sent to Kimmi and you'll know fully well what I thought of Bradley before ST 2014 and after that ST. As far as my anti-Victorino madness, please stop the bullshit will you. My take on Shane was that when we signed him I thought it a big mistake considering how poorly he played in 2012 for the Phillies and Dodgers. It took me less than a week to see my mistake when the 2013 got underway because I became one of his biggest fans. At least be open minded and know the full picture before you go running off with your assertions.I am sure that you were concerned about his injury history as was I. Anyone who says he wasn't concerned about his injury history when we signed him was either lying or just plain stupid. The injury concerns were well-founded, but when the guy is healthy, he is a catalyst. Hopefully, he will play 130 + games in 2015.

[seabeachfred]

Bradley said he doesn't study tape. He said he relies on his hands and his eyes to read the pitch and hit. He said it before a Sox Yankee game last yr. That is foolish

And the results spoke for themselves. Look we have better outfielders now and we can bypass Bradley. If Castillo is all the Sox brass believe he is, and I'm pretty sure Mookie is, we don't need Bradley. My take is to try and trade him while he might still have some value and doesn't waste away until he has no value at all. Remember Lars Anderson? Remember Ryan Kalish? Sometimes it is better to cut bait while we might get something of value for him. Save a rash of injuries Jackie has no chance of making the team save for a fifth outfielder----and we don't have room for five OF on the team the last time I checked.

[seabeachfred]

I wasn't on the board much then. Wow.

I wish that I had not missed that!

He backtracked on Bradley circa 2013, and you missed nothing because it was a pile of crap. By the time the 2013 season started I was one of Victorino's biggest fans and it stayed that way and is still that way. Again you missed nothing.

[a700hitter]

Kimmi and some of the newcomers need to understand how things work around here. If you ever question an acquisition or express doubt about a player's ability, some people here don't think that you should be allowed to change your mind about the player based on his performance. The same thing goes for players who you think are good but who disappoint in their performance. You can't point out that they are mistakes by the FO. Ya see if we have the same wrong evaluation of a player that the FO has, it can't possibly be considered to be a bad move by the FO. I guess that it is based on the 2 wrongs make a right theory. When the FO cuts those guys or trades them for a bag of balls they are acknowledging their own mistakes, but we are forbidden to post anything about it. Childish? Yes, but there is that element on this board. Don't let it deter to you.

[seabeachfred]

Kimmi and some of the newcomers need to understand how things work around here. If you ever question an acquisition or express doubt about a player's ability, some people here don't think that you should be allowed to change your mind about the player based on his performance. The same thing goes for players who you think are good but who disappoint in their performance. You can't point out that they are mistakes by the FO. Ya see if we have the same wrong evaluation of a player that the FO has, it can't possibly be considered to be a bad move by the FO. I guess that it is based on the 2 wrongs make a right theory. When the FO cuts those guys or trades them for a bag of balls they are acknowledging their own mistakes, but we are forbidden to post anything about it. Childish? Yes, but there is that element on this board. Don't let it deter to you.

Fortunately Ted, that only applies to a few of our colleagues at the moment. Some of the other pains in the asses have left the board and hopefully will find enjoyment elsewhere.

[User Name?]

Kimmi and the new ones here should also understand that a couple of posters here think they have carte blanche to shit on everyone (fo, players, other posters) but not be called out on their crap. Just sayin'.

[Palodios]

It seems crazy to me individuals can agree with the FO's moves at the time, and then years later bash those same moves, despite hailing them at the time. It's like some of us assume the FO has a crystal ball and is a failure for not seeing into the future.

[User Name?]

I get your frustration Pal. Some people should just choose a position and stick to it.

[a700hitter]

It seems crazy to me individuals can agree with the FO's moves at the time, and then years later bash those same moves, despite hailing them at the time. It's like some of us assume the FO has a crystal ball and is a failure for not seeing into the future.No one expects them to have a crystal ball and no one expects them to be perfect, but that doesn't mean that the mistakes get wiped off the ledger. We are just a bunch of fans without inside knowledge, expertise or a professional coaching staff. All of us drink the FO Kool Aid to a degree, because we rely on what they say about a player as they are the professionals, the experts, the scouts. Most of the time we base our opinions on what the professionals say about a player. When they are wrong, they are responsible, not the fans. They are trained to know better than us. If you want to give them a pass, that is fine, but we all have right to give our opinion of their moves, and that correctness or accuracy of that opinion rests on the track record of the players and the team. It has nothing to do with prior opinions.

Edit: I could somewhat see your point, if the poster didn't also acknowledge that he/she was wrong too, but whether or not the poster acknowledges the mistaken opinion, it doesn't change whether the move was good or bad. The results speak for themselves and the FO makes the big bucks to be responsible for the moves.

[mvp 78]

I get your frustration Pal. Some people should just choose a position and stick to it.

I'm just frustrated with all of these vampires running around here. It's like shoo shoo get outta here!

[mvp 78]

I had no gripe against Bradley before the 2013 season---it was the 2014 ST season that soured me on him. Repeat....Spring Training 2014. He was very bad that March and looked lost at the plate. As for 2013, I felt we might be able to carry Bradley if Gomes got his licks against LH pitchers, and as you observed I had come full circle on Victorino. In fact Bradley did impress me in ST 2013 even if before that I knew little about him save for the fact that he had hit pretty well in "A" and Double "A" ball.. Glad you got that cleared up.
I think we're kinda in the sane boat here. They just had to give him a shot in 2013. They let him ride for a long time in 2014, but it didn't work out. I'm holding out hope for him this year, but he needs to prove himself in AAA first.

[cp176]

I'm just frustrated with all of these vampires running around here. It's like shoo shoo get outta here!

A litte garlic on the door or maybe sharpen up those fangs. Whatever works for you.

[Kimmi]

Hard to imagine someone that has his talent not being able help somehow. Your posts are refreshingly non-negative even in disagreement. I have learned a great deal from just reading posts. Negative comments directed toward front office personnel or actually players is much easier for me to live with then when they are directed at posters no matter what they have to say. They are entitled to their opinions. Couple of vampires on the board who only appear when they have the opportunity to attack others. They actually have on occasion something interesting to say - worth reading for sure. It would be much more interesting without the nastiness which gets attached often like a little addendum. So - keep bringing those solid posts.


Thanks cp. I know that these discussions can get heated sometimes. I have to warn you, I'm not above throwing out the occasional snarky comment myself. I do try to keep it civil though. I find that most people will respond to you in the manner in which you respond to them.

[cp176]

Thanks cp. I know that these discussions can get heated sometimes. I have to warn you, I'm not above throwing out the occasional snarky comment myself. I do try to keep it civil though. I find that most people will respond to you in the manner in which you respond to them.
That's how it goes in life don't you think Kimmi? You probably will get treated just like you treat others. I said it before but I really don't care what people say about the team itself, coaching staff, or ownership. We all have opinions and are free to express them. Been and experience so far for me. The little games, subtle sarcasm, and nastiness only comes from just a few posters. I suppose you would get that on any discussion board.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi and some of the newcomers need to understand how things work around here. If you ever question an acquisition or express doubt about a player's ability, some people here don't think that you should be allowed to change your mind about the player based on his performance. The same thing goes for players who you think are good but who disappoint in their performance. You can't point out that they are mistakes by the FO. Ya see if we have the same wrong evaluation of a player that the FO has, it can't possibly be considered to be a bad move by the FO. I guess that it is based on the 2 wrongs make a right theory. When the FO cuts those guys or trades them for a bag of balls they are acknowledging their own mistakes, but we are forbidden to post anything about it. Childish? Yes, but there is that element on this board. Don't let it deter to you.


I tend to be very optimistic and very supportive of the FO and the team in general. It's not that I don't think the FO makes mistakes - they do. However, I can usually see the rationale behind what they've done, even if I don't agree with it. And no matter how much I think I know about baseball, I know that I don't know as much as those running the show. So, I will usually give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't have a problem with anyone criticizing the FO or any of our players. However, I do think there is a difference between rational criticism and straight out mindless bashing. Not that I'm saying anyone here does that.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi and the new ones here should also understand that a couple of posters here think they have carte blanche to shit on everyone (fo, players, other posters) but not be called out on their crap. Just sayin'.


Well, if people post crap, they must be called on it. No argument there.

[seabeachfred]

I think we're kinda in the sane boat here. They just had to give him a shot in 2013. They let him ride for a long time in 2014, but it didn't work out. I'm holding out hope for him this year, but he needs to prove himself in AAA first.

You know, I think I and others here would be better served if we could just shitcan 2014 and stop droning on and on about it because it seems to make us all angry and unhappy. I would like to think the cobwebs have been breached and it is now pretty full speed ahead to a recovering 2015, and this ought to shake the hell out of you and others. Know what I would be satisfied with this season? The AL East Division Title. I could live with that because it would certainly be a big step up from 2014. Of course, getting into the WS would be better but I think we would need to improve our starting rotation to do that and perhaps the front office is working on that right now while finding a way to tell all teams that Betts and Swihart are not part of any deal.

That to much to ask for my friend?

[seabeachfred]

Thanks cp. I know that these discussions can get heated sometimes. I have to warn you, I'm not above throwing out the occasional snarky comment myself. I do try to keep it civil though. I find that most people will respond to you in the manner in which you respond to them.

Kimmi, you and I traded barbs back on Sawxheads but I never found you to be nasty or vindictive. So don't go there. You're a good poster and a terrific teacher tutoring some lunkhead how to get an avatar next to his name.

[seabeachfred]

Well, if people post crap, they must be called on it. No argument there.

Also beware of the know-it-alls who when wrong either refuse to fess up to it or disappear in hopes people forget their blunders. We have all types here but y ou should get along with pretty much everyone.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, you and I traded barbs back on Sawxheads but I never found you to be nasty or vindictive. So don't go there. You're a good poster and a terrific teacher tutoring some lunkhead how to get an avatar next to his name.


Thanks Fred. It's not that I try to be snarky, sometimes it just sneaks out. :p

[cp176]

Thanks Fred. It's not that I try to be snarky, sometimes it just sneaks out. :p

We all get that way from time to time.

[a700hitter]

Well, if people post crap, they must be called on it. No argument there.And you don't strike me as someone who would begin a call out post by saying "that may be the dumbest thing you have ever posted," so I have no worries. :)

[User Name?]

I tend to be very optimistic and very supportive of the FO and the team in general. It's not that I don't think the FO makes mistakes - they do. However, I can usually see the rationale behind what they've done, even if I don't agree with it. And no matter how much I think I know about baseball, I know that I don't know as much as those running the show. So, I will usually give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't have a problem with anyone criticizing the FO or any of our players. However, I do think there is a difference between rational criticism and straight out mindless bashing. Not that I'm saying anyone here does that.


Well, if people post crap, they must be called on it. No argument there.

I like you.

[User Name?]

Also beware of the know-it-alls who when wrong either refuse to fess up to it or disappear in hopes people forget their blunders. We have all types here but y ou should get along with pretty much everyone.

You mean like you did in 2012 my dear Fred?

[Spudboy]

And you don't strike me as someone who would begin a call out post by saying "that may be the dumbest thing you have ever posted," so I have no worries. :)

Well to be honest one can come onto talksox most days and be prompted to think this!!!

We get some dumb comment around these parts.

[mvp 78]

Also beware of the know-it-alls who when wrong either refuse to fess up to it or disappear in hopes people forget their blunders. We have all types here but y ou should get along with pretty much everyone.

Didn't you and UN have a bet to be nicer to each other? What gives?

[a700hitter]

Well to be honest one can come onto talksox most days and be prompted to think this!!!

We get some dumb comment around these parts.

And as you do, others should let it just be a thought and address the remark with a civil response or not at all.

[seabeachfred]

Didn't you and UN have a bet to be nicer to each other? What gives?

Ha!!!!! Got you there. This time I got you. No, I was not talking about him. I was talking about someone else, and I did that knowing someone would call me out on it. Who was I talking about? Not telling but I'll give you a hint. That person doesn't post here much at all anymore and has hated my guts from time immemorial. UN dislikes me but he doesn't hate me, nor I him. But take my word for it, the person I was referring to despises me totally.

[mvp 78]

I guess I don't undrstand why you have to rant about other posters in nearly everything you write.

[a700hitter]

Oye.

[wyo-sox]

Well to be honest one can come onto talksox most days and be prompted to think this!!!

We get some dumb comment around these parts.

I appreciate my contributions being recognized :) !

[cp176]

I appreciate my contributions being recognized :) !

Best post of the day.

[Kimmi]

I like you.

:-*

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but not all opinions are created equal.

When someone has an opinion that the season is over in May, for instance, I just can't give that opinion any merit.

[Spudboy]

I appreciate my contributions being recognized :) !


Best post of the day.

Yup.

[Spudboy]

:-*

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but not all opinions are created equal.

When someone has an opinion that the season is over in May, for instance, I just can't give that opinion any merit.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!1!!1!!!


You will be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo entertained this coming May!!!!

[seabeachfred]

I guess I don't undrstand why you have to rant about other posters in nearly everything you write.

Good God mvp, do you always have to be so snarky? I simply told you that User was not the person I was talking about, and for the record 700 Hitter knew exactly who I was referring to---and how the hell can you call what I wrote a rant? It was simply a response to a friendly poster to beware. Could it be that you're having a bad day? Please, don't force me to put you on ignore because there are times we have good baseball exchanges. You missive was totally uncalled for.