Shoring Up the Rotation

[Lord Snow]

I don't think any Sox fan will deny that the 2013 Red Sox have been a pleasant surprise through the first seven games of the season.

Where do you see the Red Sox going to beef up the rotation? Lester and Buchholz have been absolutely fantastic to start the season and are really looking like the 1-2 combo we have have been waiting for them to be.

But beyond Lester & Buchholz the rotation is bad, really bad.

Will the Sox look to make improvements internally (Allen Webster and/or Rubby de la Rosa)?

Or will they look to trade for a quality arm?

John Lackey is a bust not one start into 2013, but this was expected. As is typical of guys his age coming off major surgery, he will bounce back and forth from the DL all season, persistently leave games due to injury (like his first start).

Dempster looked to be every bit the NL pitcher we were all told that he was.

And Felix Doubront is, well, Felix Doubront.

I support a May or June promotion for Allen Webster and give him a trial run in the big league rotation.

I can't believe I'm saying this but the Sox look so sharp I think they could be one or two sturdy middle-of-the-rotation options away from being a playoff contender, especially with the Yankees' starting lineup on the DL and a diminished Rays team.

[BornToRun]

First off.

Dempster wasn't that bad vs the Yankees. I think your jumping the gun to suggest he's gonna pitch to a 5.40 ERA all year. I doubt we'll see him in the 3's but a low 4 is both possible and passable in my opinion.

Doubront is a young hard throwing lefty who struck out more than a guy per inning last year. He only lasted 5 in his first start but he didn't walk a batter which is a solid sign considering that that was his big issue last year.

Lackey had an arm strain and tests show no structural damage to his arm, to say he will be shuttling in between the mound and DL all season is just unjustified pessimism. He had a scare but we later found out that he's fine. He very well may have injury problems this year but so might the rest of the rotation. Not to mention that he's in the best shape he's ever been in with the Red Sox and looked the best he ever has with us on Saturday before leaving with his injury, getting good velocity on his pitches and striking out 8 over 4 1/3.

Lester and Buch have indeed been awesome to start the year, that much I agree with, but saying that the back half of our rotation is "bad, really bad" is unbased hyperbole on your part.

[Thunder]

Now I don't want to see Aceves start. With the off day, they should go with a 4 man rotation this time around. Why? So I can see Buch when I go on Sunday. When his turn comes around again, he is a good option to replace Lackey.

[Palodios]

But beyond Lester & Buchholz the rotation is bad, really bad.


Dempster, Lackey and Doubront have given up an average of 2.66 runs per start between them. Boohoo.

[User Name?]

Lord Snow IS unjustified pessimism. He's also not very smart, because his negativity-filled arguments make no sense.

That being said, the Sox do need to shore up their SP depth.

[Lucienbel]

Dempster, Lackey and Doubront have given up an average of 2.66 runs per start between them. Boohoo.

Agreed. If they continue to pitch like that there shouldn't be a big problem. Would love to see some more innings out of Doubront really, and I'm certainly hoping that that is something that begins to happen this year. Other than that and the uncertainty of Lackey at the moment (though that seems to be looking positive) not a whole lot to talk about rotation wise at the moment personally.

Wish we had more young depth to be talking about, or more depth in general for the Lackey situation. Guess at the moment we just have to hope that pans out well.

[Palodios]

That being said, the Sox do need to shore up their SP depth.

The Red Sox do need to add another back end starter, absolutely. That being said, do we really need a pessimist ranting about how bad the back of the rotation hasn't been?

[User Name?]

The Red Sox do need to add another back end starter, absolutely. That being said, do we really need a pessimist ranting about how bad the back of the rotation hasn't been?

No, we really don't.

[redsoxbeatz]

Lord Snow IS unjustified pessimism. He's also not very smart, because his negativity-filled arguments make no sense.

That being said, the Sox do need to shore up their SP depth.

You're not very smart because I said so.

[User Name?]

You're not very smart because I said so.

You're the expert. Where's my "dunce" hat?

[redsoxbeatz]

You don't get to use quotations around that word. You're just a regular dunce. :)

[User Name?]

You don't get to use quotations around that word. You're just a regular dunce. :)

But, but, but i thought i was special :(

[a700hitter]

What's going on? U.N. has no problems with posters other than SBF... right?:lol:

[User Name?]

Dear Lord in heaven you're an idiot.

[Dojji]

Lord Snow IS unjustified pessimism. He's also not very smart, because his negativity-filled arguments make no sense.

That being said, the Sox do need to shore up their SP depth.

... a little bit. We don't need to acquire a Name, just a guy who can do what we had guys like Aaron Cook and Paul Byrd do in recent years. Come in and be a warm body if absolutely nessary and sit in the minors in the meantime.

[User Name?]

You're on to something here. I don't quite think people generally understand what the word "depth" means when used in this context. Capable, healthy major leaguers are not "depth". They are part of a team's rotation.

[SCM33]

You're on to something here. I don't quite think people generally understand what the word "depth" means when used in this context. Capable, healthy major leaguers are not "depth". They are part of a team's rotation.

Depth on a staff....is a AAA pitcher unless they are the mop up guy.

[Dojji]

Yep.

I wouldn't be against adding, say, Bruce Chen, who's in the bullpen where he is anyway. I was pulling to add John Lannan in the offseason because I thought he'd be better than "cheap depth" options, but he's better off where he is for now. If you're looking for a guy who can come in as a lefty out of the pen and slide into the rotation at need, Chen's one of the better possibly-available options. I can't imagine the Royals turning down a fair return for him. Heck, Ciriaco-for-Chen might make sense for both teams, if the Sox think Iglesias is better served staying in the big leagues.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think Nava can be a well above average starting pitcher.

Fixed it for you. :lol:

[Dojji]

Oh enough, people. I'm pulling for a guy that I've pulled for since he was in the minors, and he has 2 great days in a row and I'm happy for him. Don't make it out to be more than it is.

[mvp 78]

Oh enough, people. I'm pulling for a guy that I've pulled for since he was in the minors, and he has 2 great days in a row and I'm happy for him. Don't make it out to be more than it is.

You're the one making Nava out to be more than he is. Remember your horrible Teddy Ballgame/Nava OBP comment from last year? People criticize you because you jump off the deep end when he has a few good games. When he plays at a replacement level for a few months, you stop talking about him and the posts fall to the third page.

[a700hitter]

Anyone who has been here for any length of time understands where Doji is coming from. He thinks outside the box and has some different ideas. Sometimes he gets a bit carried away, but who doesn't from time to time? He's been right about quite a few players and moves throughout the years. There's no cause to subject him to ridicule.

[mvp 78]

But Dojji also loves just throwing random crap against the wall.

http://www.talksox.com/forum/red-sox-minor-leagues/15430-alex-hassan-anything-there.html

[Dojji]

Yes, God forbid I ask a question about a prospect with which I was relatively unfamiliar, but who had decent numbers in the minors.

God forbid I like to try to foster discussion about a number of topics that tailor to my biases, because duh.

Seriously, MVP, you are a man in desperate need of a major humility infusion.

[User Name?]

Back on topic:

It looks like Capuano is still on the trading block. Would he be a better fit than Harang?

[a700hitter]

Yes, God forbid I ask a question about a prospect with which I was relatively unfamiliar, but who had decent numbers in the minors.

God forbid I like to try to foster discussion about a number of topics that tailor to my biases, because duh.

Seriously, MVP, you are a man in desperate need of a major humility infusion.Oh pish posh. He humiliates himself quite regularly. Almost every attempt of his to be a snarky prick is lame and full of incorrect premises, recollections, intepretations, etc.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Jesus, you guys argue the smallest things. The Red Sox are winning and doing good, lighten up a little bit. Go for each others head if we're going down the gutter and baseball gets boring again.

[a700hitter]

Jesus, you guys argue the smallest things. The Red Sox are winning and doing good, lighten up a little bit. Go for each others head if we're going down the gutter and baseball gets boring again.I am amazed at how people can't enjoy winning without being confrontational with fellow Sox fans. It's amazing to me. I thought winning would bring harmony, but apparently there are malcontents who can't even enjoy success.

[BSN07]

Jesus, you guys argue the smallest things. The Red Sox are winning and doing good, lighten up a little bit. Go for each others head if we're going down the gutter and baseball gets boring again.

It's not "what" they are arguing about, it's more "who" is doing the arguing. They have been around awhile and it's just how they do

[BSN07]

Back on topic:

It looks like Capuano is still on the trading block. Would he be a better fit than Harang?

I can't find a GB/FB ration, if he's another NL fly ball P no thanks.

[BSN07]

A few FA names to kick around,

Roy Oswalt
Carlos Zambrano
Dallas Braden

[MJantomaso]

Why is this a topic 7 games into the season? I'm not sold on anyone just yet.

[mvp 78]

God forbid you get your Nava underoos in a bunch. It's just a conversation. Not sure what humility has to do with it.

[BSN07]

Does anyone else find is amusing that the apparent leader of the "Kalish fanclub clubhouse" and Nava's biggest fan are going back and forth?

"My 4th OF is better!"

"No mine is! Yours sucks cock in Hell!"

[Dojji]

It's just a conversation. Not sure what humility has to do with it.

Which is, I would venture to say, your problem.

[RedSoxNC84]

Isn't Lord Snow the same guy that said Victorino was terrible?

[BornToRun]

I really don't think it's worth it to keep arguing over Dojii's Nava love. What's the point? He really likes the kid and everyone of us has had a certain player that we wind up getting attached to at some point. I used to be irrationally in love with Salty. I find myself becoming more and more of a rider on the Nava bandwagon. He's versatile and has awesome on base skills vs righties, so what if Dojii is obsessed with him? It isn't hurting anything and it isn't worth arguing over. The Sox are looking good and have been fun to watch, why can't we just enjoy that?

[Dojji]

Because certain of us have decided to dig in just as firmly on the Nava skeptic camp as I have on the optimist side, just because I have done so.

It comes of my combination of enthusiasm and volume. It turns people off sometimes, and a certain group of contrarian posters are always going to line up on the other side as a result, either because they don't like me, or because they're less enthusiastic about the subject matter and they want to rein the thread in a bit. It happens, I know why it happens, I just can't be bothered to adjust my way of thinking because of half a handful of fools.

And I admit that sometimes their antagonism to my ideas tends to radicalize me as well. Sort of a mutual lose-lose situation, at least for those mods who like sleep. Nava is a prime example, Gabbard was another.

[BornToRun]

Oh Kason Gabbard. I always liked him, it's a shame his career never panned out.

[dupree]

A few FA names to kick around,

Roy Oswalt
Carlos Zambrano
Dallas Braden

With the new good guy clubhouse i dont think zambrano would be a candidate. Im a did fan of calling the young guys up and letting them throw instead of bringing anyone else in. But any of them on a minors deal would be fine.

[Sox Fire]

Please dont tell me they are gonna start AA in place of lackey...where is there reason behind that?

[Dojji]

Oh Kason Gabbard. I always liked him, it's a shame his career never panned out.

He had it all in front of him if he hadn't hurt his elbow. His command was always a bit shaky, but that changeup was a plus plus pitch, lots of swings and misses on that thing, and he had the two-seamer to get a lot of ground balls and erase the baserunners he let up. Unfortunately, he wasn't even close after the injury and the strike zone became an utter mystery to him.

What a pity. But that's the way it goes sometimes.

[Dojji]

Please dont tell me they are gonna start AA in place of lackey...where is there reason behind that?

Who are you going to start instead with Morales hurt? You gonna call up that knuckleballer in AAA who couldn't get it done this Spring? Press Miller into service?

Aceves has a role on this team, and this is it. He's going to have to pass or fail at that role definitively before we know whether it's time to replace him with someone else.

[kapsis21]

He had it all in front of him if he hadn't hurt his elbow. His command was always a bit shaky, but that changeup was a plus plus pitch, lots of swings and misses on that thing, and he had the two-seamer to get a lot of ground balls and erase the baserunners he let up. Unfortunately, he wasn't even close after the injury and the strike zone became an utter mystery to him.

What a pity. But that's the way it goes sometimes.

the dreadful deal we pulled, Kason Gabbard/David Murphy/Engel Beltre( he never panned out) for GagMe

[Dojji]

the dreadful deal we pulled, Kason Gabbard/David Murphy/Engel Beltre( he never panned out) for GagMe

It's obvious in retrospect who the real heavy of that deal was, that being David Murphy, but I suspect that the Rangers were liking what they saw from Gabbard too. He featured prominently in their rotation and wasn't doing all that bad until the injury happened (4.8 ERA, nothing great, but not that awful, and if you check the game log there was a definite downward trajectory in his ERA and BB rate as the elbow got worse)

[BSN07]

Who are you going to start instead with Morales hurt? You gonna call up that knuckleballer in AAA who couldn't get it done this Spring? Press Miller into service?

Aceves has a role on this team, and this is it. He's going to have to pass or fail at that role definitively before we know whether it's time to replace him with someone else.

Ya that's how I feel too. He should be able to hold it down for a month if needed.

[seabeachfred]

I am amazed at how people can't enjoy winning without being confrontational with fellow Sox fans. It's amazing to me. I thought winning would bring harmony, but apparently there are malcontents who can't even enjoy success.

Well it looks like I'm not the only guy they have trouble getting along with.....or is it the other way around? As for the depth in pitching, let's face it, there is no one out there who will provide a magic bullet for us. Besides, it's already been said that starting pitching depth are usually journeymen on the downsides of their careers. Someone mentioned Capuano. He is another Harang, a fly ball pitcher who might have trouble surviving in the American League. If we could just get a solid and winning performance from Dempster tomorrow and from Aceves on Friday or whenever, this clamor might die down a little.

As for Aceves, he is just nuts enough to go out there as a starter and do what he hasn't been able to do as a reliever. Most of you out there have played baseball in your earlier years, and maybe a few of you have also coached. If so, you know that certain players have a comfort zone, especially if they are a little on the strange side. Ace is strange enough to really surprise us.

[seabeachfred]

Does anyone else find is amusing that the apparent leader of the "Kalish fanclub clubhouse" and Nava's biggest fan are going back and forth?

"My 4th OF is better!"

"No mine is! Yours sucks cock in Hell!"

I find it a little strange since "Kalish fanclub clubhouse's" pal says I'm the only who can't get along with them. I guess you would now call that a canard. At any rate, give Dojii a few kuddos. His guy is the reason why we won our Home Opener yesterday. Minus that, even with Clay's top notch performance on the hill we would most likely have lost the game, 1-0.

[kapsis21]

I find it a little strange since "Kalish fanclub clubhouse's" pal says I'm the only who can't get along with them. I guess you would now call that a canard. At any rate, give Dojii a few kuddos. His guy is the reason why we won our Home Opener yesterday. Minus that, even with Clay's top notch performance on the hill we would most likely have lost the game, 1-0.

no ways. Jim Johnson is going to blow a lot of games this year...

[Palodios]

Two ideas that have been thrown out in the past were Andrew Bailey for Rick Porcello, or Saltalamacchia for Gavin Floyd.

Still like both of those trades.

[BornToRun]

Two ideas that have been thrown out in the past were Andrew Bailey for Rick Porcello, or Saltalamacchia for Gavin Floyd.

Still like both of those trades.

Who catches then? Ross is in his mid 30's and has never caught more than 112 games and that was in 2007 and Lavs was absolutely awful with the bat last year in the time he spent up with the big club.

[Palodios]

Who catches then? Ross is in his mid 30's and has never caught more than 112 games and that was in 2007 and Lavs was absolutely awful with the bat last year in the time he spent up with the big club.

Lavs. If he has trouble in the big leagues then bring up Hernandez for his glove.

[BornToRun]

Lavs. If he has trouble in the big leagues then bring up Hernandez for his glove.

I'm going to admit to some ignorance on my part and ask, who's Hernandez?

[Palodios]

I'm going to admit to some ignorance on my part and ask, who's Hernandez?

Oops, I meant Chris Vazquez. I confused him with Chris Hernandez. To answer your question, he's an all-glove catcher in AA.

[BornToRun]

Oops, I meant Chris Vazquez. I confused him with Chris Hernandez. To answer your question, he's an all-glove catcher in AA.

Oh Vasquez, now I know who you mean. I do recall his glove earning him a lot of praise this spring.

[mvp 78]

Does anyone else find is amusing that the apparent leader of the "Kalish fanclub clubhouse" and Nava's biggest fan are going back and forth?

"My 4th OF is better!"

"No mine is! Yours sucks cock in Hell!"

I'm sorry, did I ever say Kalish was better? Don't think I did.

I'm also not making numerous posts about Kalish either.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I think we all couldn't Kalish what you think about him.

[mvp 78]

I think we all couldn't Kalish what you think about him.

Good job. Good effort.

[NYlove4BoSox]

As for Aceves, he is just nuts enough to go out there as a starter and do what he hasn't been able to do as a reliever. Most of you out there have played baseball in your earlier years, and maybe a few of you have also coached. If so, you know that certain players have a comfort zone, especially if they are a little on the strange side. Ace is strange enough to really surprise us.

Sounds good by me. I'll be very excited to watch Ace start again. Maybe two starts, 5 IP.

[win red sox]

Best case scenario is Aceves pitches well in his 2-3 starts increasing his trade value. Then with Breslow throwing bullpen sessions as of 4/1 and Morales throwing live batting practice 4/3, Ben then could trade Aceves, move Morales into the long mans role and Breslow takes Mortenson's spot. I also can see Webster making some spot starts if a starter needs to skip a couple of starts.

[redsoxbeatz]

Hopefully aceves only starts once, on Sunday. Lackey will be back after.

[User Name?]

Any word on the severity of the bicep strain then? Word on twitter (and i hate to steal SoxSport's schtick) is that he'll miss two turns, not one.

[Palodios]

Any word on the severity of the bicep strain then? Word on twitter (and i hate to steal SoxSport's schtick) is that he'll miss two turns, not one.

Farrel had mentioned the possibility of pulling Buch and Lester back a day because of the day off, which could possibly only make it one start (as in, one Aceves start). That being said, I agree with a700, its probably going to turn into 3-4 starts easy.

[seabeachfred]

Hopefully aceves only starts once, on Sunday. Lackey will be back after.

I think you might be a mite over optimistic about Lackey's early return. You've followed the Red Sox long enough to know that our medical staff has usually been off the mark in estimating the return of our players from the injury list. If you're right in this case there should be no harm done but if you're not we have to pray that Aceves gets his shit together and gives us the type of work that Julian Taveras used to when he was called on to pinch hit on the mound for extended service in the Red Sox rotation.

For some strange reason I think Alfredo just might pleasantly surprise us, and if he doesn't you and others can get on my case.:):):):):):):):):)

[Dojji]

I think we all couldn't Kalish what you think about him.

I've seen better.

I'd almost forgotten about Ryan Kalish. Crazy what 2 years of injury will do to a player's presence in the minds of fans.

[Lord Snow]

I've seen better.

I'd almost forgotten about Ryan Kalish. Crazy what 2 years of injury will do to a player's presence in the minds of fans.

Yeah, definitely. Kalish was a player that caught a lot of hype but simply never panned out.

I'm glad that he is more the exception than the rule. The Sox have been on a bit of a hot-streak when it comes to home-grown talent. It reminds me a lot of the surge from the mid-2000s that produced Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon, Lester, Ellsbury and ultimately the 2007 World Series. Then we kind of dipped into a bit of a prospect dark age where guys like Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson fizzled.

The reports on Webster and De La Rosa have been very encouraging. As has the report on Xander Bogaerts. Will Middlebrooks definitely seems to be the real deal, Iglesias has looked fantastic to start the year too, maybe he will finally be able to be a .250+ hitter. I like what Bradley has shown too.

Switching gears, what do you think about the Sox trading for one of the Giants' overpriced starters (namely Zito or Lincecum) perhaps a change of scenery could help one of them out in a contract year?

[Dojji]

Well it's a bit early to say he never panned out when he's only 25. The window is shrinking, but it really hasn't closed completely.



Switching gears, what do you think about the Sox trading for one of the Giants' overpriced starters (namely Zito or Lincecum) perhaps a change of scenery could help one of them out in a contract year?

I can't possibly count all the myriad ways and reasons I don't even touch Barry Zito.

As for Lincecum, I really doubt the Giants make him available. Not after one bad year.

[User Name?]

The problem isn't whether or not the Giants make him available. The problem is he's toast. He's lost a ton of velocity and movement on his fastball, and he can't seem to adjust. It's more than just a one year thing all things considered.

Zito is a soft-tossing lefty. Fenway is murder for soft-tossing lefties.

[MJantomaso]

We are 7 games into the season and we are already talking trades?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6a3e068656a2bbc448fd3218000422fb/tumblr_mi6welWqTn1r1hz41o1_250.gif

[Dojji]

We are 7 games into the season and we are already talking trades?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6a3e068656a2bbc448fd3218000422fb/tumblr_mi6welWqTn1r1hz41o1_250.gif

I'm surprised you're surprised. This roster isn't a finished work by any means. They never are. But clearly some moves have to happen in the very near future anyway, such as figuring out whether you really need/want Carp for example and then where you go from there with that roster spot.

[a700hitter]

We're only 7 games into the season and we already had a starting pitcher grab his arm on the mound unable to continue.

[NYlove4BoSox]

So Aceves tomorrow, and no indication whether Lackey will miss more than one. So that's encouraging.

[a700hitter]

So Aceves tomorrow, and no indication whether Lackey will miss more than one. So that's encouraging.Has Lackey long tossed or thrown at all since the injury?

[MJantomaso]

We're only 7 games into the season and we already had a starting pitcher grab his arm on the mound unable to continue.

He's our 5th man in the rotation and It's an inflamed biceps. Throw in a spot starter until he can return. Aceves may be a head case but he is a much better option than trading for a washed up NL pitcher that will end up getting ripped and continue to more bitching and moaning.

[a700hitter]

He's our 5th man in the rotation and It's an inflamed biceps. Throw in a spot starter until he can return. Aceves may be a head case but he is a much better option than trading for a washed up NL pitcher that will end up getting ripped and continue to more bitching and moaning.Are you saying that you expect each our starters to make all of their remaining starts, with the exception of the 1 being missed by Lackey?

[NYlove4BoSox]

Has Lackey long tossed or thrown at all since the injury?

True. So that's the next test, and maybe the deciding factor whether its 1 or 2 starts.
What's the reasoning for switching the 5th spot with Doubront's 4th spot tomorrow? Especially with the off day Tues. I assume then they get switched back next week.

Edit: so I see that Ace has good #'s against the O's, and Felix against the Rays. Maybe that's it.

[User Name?]

Lackey has officially been placed on the 15-day DL.

[MJantomaso]

Are you saying that you expect each our starters to make all of their remaining starts, with the exception of the 1 being missed by Lackey?

Did I say that? You are talking about making trades because our 5th spot in the rotation has a god damn inflamed biceps lol. I mean if someone goes down with a major injury then ya, lets go out and get another arm. Until then, lets use the farm system and Aceves for spot starts.

[a700hitter]

Did I say that? You are talking about making trades because our 5th spot in the rotation has a god damn inflamed biceps lol. I mean if someone goes down with a major injury then ya, lets go out and get another arm. Until then, lets use the farm system and Aceves for spot starts.i haven't suggested that we pursue a trade(s).

[MJantomaso]

i haven't suggested that we pursue a trade(s).

Well that was my point. I was wondering why some people are in hot stove mode 7 games into the season.

[Quinny]

Lackey has officially been placed on the 15-day DL.

Alex Wilson called up as a result.

[Dojji]

.. suggesting that for now, your answer in the rotation is Aceves.

[BSN07]

I figured they would DL him(was it retroactive?) and he miss 2-3 starts on the short end. This is why they have put up with Aceves issues, this is the role he has excelled in. I think the team would be alright with him as the #5 for a month. If it's longer then alternatives should be explored.

[Quinny]

Aceves will be solid for that short term plan. It's pretty much what he wants to do all along, so that should give him motivation to fill the spot well in his 2 starts. Wilson will fill in Aceves' spot as the long relief man in the pen during these next few weeks. Wilson is a decent fill in for that sort of roll

[a700hitter]

Aceves has had only 9 career starts. It is not a role in which he excels. He has been a better reliever.

[BSN07]

Aceves has had only 9 career starts. It is not a role in which he excels. He has been a better reliever.

So he wasn't successful in 2011 as the teams swing man? News to me. 4 spot starts and 114 IP at a 2.61 ERA seems more then just a reliever :dunno:

[a700hitter]

So he wasn't successful in 2011 as the teams swing man? News to me. 4 spot starts and 114 IP at a 2.61 ERA seems more then just a reliever :dunno:I looked at his career splits as a starter. All of his numbers are worse across the board when compared to his reliever stats. His ERA is up about half of a run as starter. Yes, he excels as a long reliever/swingman, but he has not exceled in his career starts.

[jung]

We don't even know what Ace would excel in at this point. So far based on the Ace we have not the Ace we had, I would say nothing.

As for being solid for a few starts if you want to call seeing a bomb going into the stratosphere every other or every third inning solid then yes I guess Ace will be solid.

[BSN07]

I looked at his career splits as a starter. All of his numbers are worse across the board when compared to his reliever stats. His ERA is up about half of a run as starter. Yes, he excels as a long reliever/swingman, but he has not exceled in his career starts.

I can't believe you used that to try and make your argument :lol: A whole half run, what the hell was I thinking?

[a700hitter]

I can't believe you used that to try and make your argument :lol: A whole half run, what the hell was I thinking?That was just an example of one stat that is worse in his starts than his relief appearances. Look up his splits. All of his stats as a starter are worse than they are when he is a reliever. There is no basis to say that he excels as a spot starter --- none at all.

[Quinny]

I guess a 4.18 ERA might not be considered "excelling" but its pretty damn solid for your 5th starter. A solid placeholder

[a700hitter]

I guess a 4.18 ERA might not be considered "excelling" but its pretty damn solid for your 5th starter. A solid placeholderHe is not as good as a starter as a reliever. It is not the role he excels in. It's very simple.

[Quinny]

He is not as good as a starter as a reliever. It is not the role he excels in. It's very simple.

I would agree with that statement. But my original argument that he will be a "solid" placeholder for 2 or 3 starts based on his career starts.

[a700hitter]

I would agree with that statement. But my original argument that he will be a "solid" placeholder for 2 or 3 starts based on his career starts.and I don't disagree with that.

[mvp 78]

@bradfo: Per source: Red Sox don't have interest in Aaron Harang

[Lord Snow]

I figured they would DL him(was it retroactive?) and he miss 2-3 starts on the short end. This is why they have put up with Aceves issues, this is the role he has excelled in. I think the team would be alright with him as the #5 for a month. If it's longer then alternatives should be explored.

Can't expect anything from Lackey this season. He likely had his last significant impact on the club in 2011. Never bank on pitcher coming off any type of throwing arm surgery to have any significant positive impact on his team and you won't end up disappointed.

I expect no more than 40 innings out of him this season, and that's a high-end estimate.

I really wouldn't mind the Sox turning to Allen Webster in the #5 slot. If they're going to make a run at things this season he will almost certainly have to be a part of that formula.

[jung]

Well in truth the more we get to see the young guys play, the more fun this team is to watch. JBJ needs to see time in Pawtucket. If there is a silver lining to the way the regular season has gone for him it does not look like fans will be clamoring and demanding that he stay when Ortiz comes back. So the Sox get their little JBJ boost and get to deal with the 2019 thing.

Drew will have to perform really good to make it worthwhile not to be watching Iggy gobble up ground balls all over the Sox infield.

Things may not break right for the rotation after all. This could be the first of the arm issues that Lackey may face this his first season after TJS. I can't say that Dempster has made me forget the scouting reports on him as an AL pitcher. He did pitch better this outing than the first cause he did a better job keeping the ball down. However he is way more vulnerable than I had hoped for if he is up in the zone at all. If things continue as reports suggested, he will win some and lose some but will not overly impress. Felix did not show up in shape and Buch will probably have us lighting candles for him all season hoping he can take the ball as scheduled every time. I gotta' think there will be ample opportunity for somebody to help this rotation and I still do not think that means Ace for very long. So if it turns out Webster can help, that would actually be great as long as they don't screw him up in the process.

[BSN07]

Well in truth the more we get to see the young guys play, the more fun this team is to watch. JBJ needs to see time in Pawtucket. If there is a silver lining to the way the regular season has gone for him it does not look like fans will be clamoring and demanding that he stay when Ortiz comes back. So the Sox get their little JBJ boost and get to deal with the 2019 thing.

Drew will have to perform really good to make it worthwhile not to be watching Iggy gobble up ground balls all over the Sox infield.

Things may not break right for the rotation after all. This could be the first of the arm issues that Lackey may face this his first season after TJS. I can't say that Dempster has made me forget the scouting reports on him as an AL pitcher. He did pitch better this outing than the first cause he did a better job keeping the ball down. However he is way more vulnerable than I had hoped for if he is up in the zone at all. If things continue as reports suggested, he will win some and lose some but will not overly impress. Felix did not show up in shape and Buch will probably have us lighting candles for him all season hoping he can take the ball as scheduled every time. I gotta' think there will be ample opportunity for somebody to help this rotation and I still do not think that means Ace for very long. So if it turns out Webster can help, that would actually be great as long as they don't screw him up in the process.

If Drew shows he's healthy and hitting I think he gets traded not long after June 1 when he is eligible for trade w/o his consent. I'm guessing St. Louis and it could be for an arm(no idea who though). I think the offense has shown enough potency and with Ortiz coming back(also has to show he's healthy and hitting) that Drews bat won't be missed. Iggy's defense could be even more helpful especially with the shaky end of the rotation.

[MJantomaso]

Can't expect anything from Lackey this season. He likely had his last significant impact on the club in 2011. Never bank on pitcher coming off any type of throwing arm surgery to have any significant positive impact on his team and you won't end up disappointed.

I expect no more than 40 innings out of him this season, and that's a high-end estimate.

I really wouldn't mind the Sox turning to Allen Webster in the #5 slot. If they're going to make a run at things this season he will almost certainly have to be a part of that formula.

What about John Smoltz, Josh Johnson, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Stephen Strasburg...etc?

Idk if you watched the game but Lackey looked pretty damn good against a powerful lineup. He has inflammation, he will only miss a couple starts.

[a700hitter]

Rubby got pasted the other night in his first AAA start:


IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Rubby De La Rosa 2.1 4 5 5 1 3 2 19.29

[BSN07]

Ya that's a rough outing, happens tho.

[seabeachfred]

Rubby got pasted the other night in his first AAA start:


IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Rubby De La Rosa 2.1 4 5 5 1 3 2 19.29


I've said all along Ted to anyone who would listen that Rubby is just not very good. He has a live arm and a dead brain, is a thrower and not a pitcher. His fastball is as straight as an arrow and he usually pitches behind the count---deadly for a FB pitcher with a straight hummer. With time and experience he might get better but two years ago the Bums of LA were singing his praises and then got rid of him. I saw him a few times on the tube and he stunk just about every time. Webster may turn out to be a solid pitcher for us but DeLaRosa will be a one inning bullpen pitcher who might overpower batters for three outs. No way in my opinion will they want this guy facing batters a second time, let alone a third time.

[a700hitter]

I've said all along Ted to anyone who would listen that Rubby is just not very good. He has a live arm and a dead brain, is a thrower and not a pitcher. His fastball is as straight as an arrow and he usually pitches behind the count---deadly for a FB pitcher with a straight hummer. With time and experience he might get better but two years ago the Bums of LA were singing his praises and then got rid of him. I saw him a few times on the tube and he stunk just about every time. Webster may turn out to be a solid pitcher for us but DeLaRosa will be a one inning bullpen pitcher who might overpower batters for three outs. No way in my opinion will they want this guy facing batters a second time, let alone a third time.When I saw him in person, I thought that he just doesn't have a starting pitchers body. Rubby isn't Chubby, but he is stocky and not tall. I don't see him as having a durable starting pitcher's body.

[SoxSport]

Can't tell anything about a pitcher based on one outing. Last night, Farrell brought in 3 relief pitchers pitchers in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings to replace Dempster--a guy they're paying $13 million, and he can't go beyond the 5th? He lucked out on the 3--they all had their stuff. But he pressed his luck bringing in a 4th guy--the "closer" Hanrahan, who did not his stuff. The result was a loss that should have been a win.

Fault Hanrahan? Yes and no. The guy has what--3 saves? So he doesn't have it one night and loses the game. Closers are set up to win or lose games. That's the way it is. Soriano and Rodney have both shit the bed this year--once each so far. ERAs out of sight. Closers do it all the time. They aren't machines. They don't have their stuff every appearance. Now today, Farrell and Hanrahan have to face the music in the media for one blown save.

I don't like the ideology of one RP per inning. They used 4 last night in 4 innings. The odds of one of those guys not having his stuff and getting hit are very high. When you have a guy who is getting people out, leave him in there for at least another inning. If they did that last night, they might not have needed Hanrahan. But wait. That means Hanrahan doesn't get a save. Heavens. His agent will throw a fit. Not to mention fantasy players.

They have a pretty deep BP right now. Maybe 4 guys who could close on any given night. I know Farrell is risking shaking up the baseball world, but why not distribute some of those saves?

[Thunder]

So Aceves goes tonight? I would rather see a guy like Miller (a lefty) or Uehara replace Lackey. Aceves makes me worry, and that's never good.

On a side note, with the rain tomorrow, I will probably see Lester pitch on Sunday rather than Buchholz.

[RedSoxNC84]

@bradfo: Per source: Red Sox don't have interest in Aaron Harang

Thank God.

[Lord Snow]

Rubby got pasted the other night in his first AAA start:


IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Rubby De La Rosa 2.1 4 5 5 1 3 2 19.29


I'm not overly concerned. While I would love Rubby to become an ace I'm fully aware that he is just a year and a half removed from TJ. He hardly pitched last year and when he did the results weren't very encouraging. It's why the Sox got him so 'cheap'. Prior to the surgery he showed enormous potential at a young age which by all accounts is still present.

It could be half a season before he shakes off the rust and gets used to his new arm.

I think he will be in Boston before the season is over.

[dupree]

Agreed i think when he gets fully used to his new arm he very well can be in boston by season's end. Plus i hope he can become an ace or atleast a #2.

[rorschach]

I really don't think it's worth it to keep arguing over Dojii's Nava love. What's the point? He really likes the kid and everyone of us has had a certain player that we wind up getting attached to at some point. I used to be irrationally in love with Salty. I find myself becoming more and more of a rider on the Nava bandwagon. He's versatile and has awesome on base skills vs righties, so what if Dojii is obsessed with him? It isn't hurting anything and it isn't worth arguing over. The Sox are looking good and have been fun to watch, why can't we just enjoy that?

I'm personally loving the work put in from the entire rotation, very pleasantly surprised to say the least. We do need to bring in and keep someone on the hook for Lackey's injury stints this season, but when he's healthy if he can bring anything like what he did for 4 1/3 against Toronto I'll be a happy camper. If Dempster and Doubront can keep pitching like they have so far, a little run support thrown in there, they can both easily be above .500 starters.

If there's any real worry I have about position depth it's at 3rd, Middlebrooks has been the definition of the word streaky. And with exception of one outstanding game in Toronto, his contact per AB and walk/K ratio has been somewhat alarming threw his first 12 games played. Bradley clearly isn't ready for big league pitching either, but that problem will be cleared up as soon as Ortiz gets his ass in gear, and off the DL.

All in all though, I couldn't be happier with the teams start, especially when you consider how almost everyone thought these 1st 12 games would look. With 4 of 9 slumping bats in the starting lineup Napoli (.220) (but he does appear to be coming around) Middlebrooks (.217) Bradley (.097) & Gomes (.158) to have a record of 8-4 and in first place in the division, the starting pitching has been pretty damn good all the way around. If Dempster had a little run support his last 2 starts, hell even all 3 of his starts he would be 3-0 right now with his 2.65 ERA. :thumbsup:

[User Name?]

You're worried about positional depth at third on April 16th? Have some faith. It's been 12 games.

[rorschach]

You're worried about positional depth at third on April 16th? Have some faith. It's been 12 games.

I'm not really worried about anything lol. I was just saying, imo if there is any concern about position depth at all, it's not at SP. Middlebrooks lack of contact has been somewhat discouraging, but this early in the season it shouldn't be cause for concern yet. Basically, almost half our starting lineup is off to a rocky start with the bats, our rotation has been keeping us in winnable situations, so why worry about the rotation that's off to a great start?

Hell if everyone's so worried about the 5th spot shitting himself, go with the 4 man act until Lackey returns. Our offense has been inconsistent in the first 12 not our rotation, if people want to worry, project it to the right places.

[SoxSport]

How does Wright get called up over Webster? Good question.

[BornToRun]

Because it's been made quite clear that Webster isn't gonna see the bigs until June at the earliest.

[Palodios]

Can we talk about how the Red Sox have the best overall pitching staff in the AL, and second best pitching staff in the majors right now?

[BSN07]

Can we talk about how the Red Sox have the best overall pitching staff in the AL, and second best pitching staff in the majors right now?

Ya it's really nice. It must have all the naysayers stymied. According to those guys, these pitchers where done and never going to amount to anything ever again :D

[a700hitter]

Can we talk about how the Red Sox have the best overall pitching staff in the AL, and second best pitching staff in the majors right now?
I don't think it is too shocking that Lester and Buch have bounced back, especially in light of the Spring Training that they had. They have done better than bounce back this far. They are off to the best starts of their careers. The real shocker has been how well the third thru fifth slots have performed. We just need those guys to be healthy and make their starts to be competitive. If they keep performing like this, it could be a very fun season.

[SoxSport]

On the pitching, it's still very early. So far, so good. Consistency and durability are yet to be proven.

[a700hitter]

On the pitching, it's still very early. So far, so good. Consistency and durability are yet to be proven.Those are the keys. In the past several years we have suffered more than our share of injuries. Maybe this year the injury bug won't bite us too hard.

[Dojji]

Can't hate what Aceves gave us last night. 5 and 3 is what you hope for from a #6 guy.

[seabeachfred]

Can we talk about how the Red Sox have the best overall pitching staff in the AL, and second best pitching staff in the majors right now?

Once again, a helluva good point by you Pal. Let's give some kuddos to our pitching staff right about now. This was supposed to be our achilles heel, and you yourself said "need pitching" at the bottom of your posts. Keep it there, though, because we need our pitching to keep doing what they've been doing, which is pitching lights out. If there is any cause for concern it is keeping the staff healthy and hoping the bottom end of the rotation can do deeper into games. I don't want the bullpen gassed by August.

Tonight we have Jon Lester going and that is good for us, but just a tad of a caution. The Indians had Masterson and his 3-0 and terrific ERA going for them last night against our Aceves who hadn't pitched all that well----and Alfredo won. So there is nothing automatic about tonight's game. Suffice to say, though, if Jon pitches to his capabilities and we play the ball like we've been playing we ought to turn another hat trick tonight.;);););)

[seabeachfred]

Can't hate what Aceves gave us last night. 5 and 3 is what you hope for from a #6 guy.

Not at all Dojii. Alfredo pitched very well until he ran out of gas in the sixth inning. Well hell, he hadn't been pitching deep innings before he was put in the rotation and most likely will have to be stretched out more in order to go deeper into games. Remember, he took on the Indians' ace and beat him. That's worth a lot right there. The guy is basically a reliever but he might actually be more effective as a starter. It is a nice problem to have.

[a700hitter]

Not at all Dojii. Alfredo pitched very well until he ran out of gas in the sixth inning. Well hell, he hadn't been pitching deep innings before he was put in the rotation and most likely will have to be stretched out more in order to go deeper into games. Remember, he took on the Indians' ace and beat him. That's worth a lot right there. The guy is basically a reliever but he might actually be more effective as a starter. It is a nice problem to have.This is the opportunity that Aceves wanted. Maybe he will keep his head together and make a good showing to prove himself as a starter.

[Orange Juiced]

I still think the Sox haven't yet had a starter give up more than 3 runs. That's pretty amazing.

[MJantomaso]

I still think the Sox haven't yet had a starter give up more than 3 runs. That's pretty amazing.

Knock on wood please.

[MJantomaso]

I'm actually pretty excited for Lackey to come back. Call me crazy but other than that knock he gave up to Arencibia he looked pretty dominant against a good lineup. The velocity was there and he was commanding his offspeed. Lackey was a horse with the Angels that's why we went out and got him and it would be a breath of fresh air for him to come back strong this year.

[iortiz]

This is the opportunity that Aceves wanted. Maybe he will keep his head together and make a good showing to prove himself as a starter.

I'm really pleased with Aceves thus far even though have been only 2 starts. I didn't have any confidence or hope on him as SP. I'm glad he proves me be wrong.

[RedSoxNC84]

Alfredo Aceves: the five inning man

[Dojji]

Alfredo Aceves: the five inning man

All you ask of a replacement starter is not getting knocked out early and keeping the game winnable.

Aceves meets or exceeds that standard, and for a guy who's spent the majority of the last year plus in short relief, that's impressive

[seabeachfred]

This is the opportunity that Aceves wanted. Maybe he will keep his head together and make a good showing to prove himself as a starter.

You know Ted, I remarked to a few of our colleagues here a week or so ago that it was possible Aceves might actually do better as a starter than as a bullpen man and you just said why. He has always wanted the opportunity to start and in a game where the mind plays such a big part it could be a comfort zone for him. He hasn't set the world on fire but he has pitched well and he beat Masterson, the Indians' ace last night. Perhaps as he starts a few more games he will be able to go deeper into the contest, say six or seven innings. No matter what some have said about him in the past, and I am one of them, we just might turn out to need this guy and I want him with his head screwed on right. We might get some big wins from him with that mindset, and also keep in mind that one of our starters could do down during the season and we will need Alfredo ready to step in most any time.

[seabeachfred]

Knock on wood please.

Don't kid yourself MJ, I'd venture to say a whole bunch of us on this board are knocking on wood---I sure as hell am. So far, so good though. We have finally gotten off to a decent start and have taken on the rivals in our division and held our own. I think the whole league is wide open, especially since the Angels have gotten off to such a slow start and only the Tigers seem poised to be the hired killer of the bunch. They, too, though, have their weaknesses. If the Red Sox take it one game at a time and try not to look too far ahead we may actually play some very important games this September. Wouldn't that be a real hoot.

[Orange Juiced]

Don't kid yourself MJ, I'd venture to say a whole bunch of us on this board are knocking on wood---I sure as hell am. So far, so good though. We have finally gotten off to a decent start and have taken on the rivals in our division and held our own. I think the whole league is wide open, especially since the Angels have gotten off to such a slow start and only the Tigers seem poised to be the hired killer of the bunch. They, too, though, have their weaknesses. If the Red Sox take it one game at a time and try not to look too far ahead we may actually play some very important games this September. Wouldn't that be a real hoot.

Well two things are obviously true: (1) Me (or anyone else) saying something on a message board has zero causation on a baseball game being played many states away. And (2) at some point Sox' starters are going to give up a crapload of runs. Can't play 162 games without that happening, no matter how good your rotation is.

That said, let's enjoy the ride as long as it lasts, and let's continue to hope that it lasts through tonight at least. Then tomorrow we can hope for the same thing.

[a700hitter]

Well two things are obviously true: (1) Me (or anyone else) saying something on a message board has zero causation on a baseball game being played many states away. And (2) at some point Sox' starters are going to give up a crapload of runs. Can't play 162 games without that happening, no matter how good your rotation is.

That said, let's enjoy the ride as long as it lasts, and let's continue to hope that it lasts through tonight at least. Then tomorrow we can hope for the same thing.So, then BTR's mojo is a farce? Is that what you are saying?:dunno:

[Orange Juiced]

So, then BTR's mojo is a farce? Is that what you are saying?:dunno:

What or who is BTR?

EDIT: Oh, BornToRun and the gamethreads. Well, I'm not saying to stop doing something if things are going well.....

;-)

[BornToRun]

Damn right you aren't.

[Orange Juiced]

Damn right you aren't.

FWIW, I like Taylor Swift too.

[a700hitter]

She's a bit of a skank... no?

[BornToRun]

FWIW, I like Taylor Swift too.

Okay, this guys cool. Everybody leave him be.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Taylor Swift is a skank? Would love to hear the explanation for that one.

[VA Sox Fan]

She's a bit of a skank... no?

No.

[User Name?]

I'd hit it.

[BornToRun]

Username, I don't appreciate the inappropriate comments about my future wife. Everybody else, your support is appreciated and I'll be sure to tell Taylor whenever it is I meet her and propose.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I suppose talksox should get some preemptive bail money together.

[User Name?]

Username, I don't appreciate the inappropriate comments about my future wife. Everybody else, your support is appreciated and I'll be sure to tell Taylor whenever it is I meet her and propose.

You should be flattered.


I suppose talksox should get some preemptive bail money together.

Mad props.

[VA Sox Fan]

I suppose talksox should get some preemptive bail money together.

:lol:

[BornToRun]

My self esteem hurts.

[a700hitter]

Didn't she date a Kennedy at some point? By definition, I think that qualifies her as a skank.

[BornToRun]

Connor Kennedy. And I will end this before it becomes overly political by stating that the Kennedy's rock. Now let's move on before we end up in a blood feud.

[VA Sox Fan]

Didn't she date a Kennedy at some point? By definition, I think that qualifies her as a skank.

She's not a skank. You're thinking of someone else.

[BornToRun]

Yeah. Lindsey Lohan, perhaps. Or that one evil bitch who came on to me by saying "Hi" as we passed in the hall once and then rejected my advances. Tease.

[a700hitter]

Connor Kennedy. And I will end this before it becomes overly political by stating that the Kennedy's rock. Now let's move on before we end up in a blood feud.Nothing political. Kennedy's are known for hitting everything. They get involved with a lot of skanks.

[VA Sox Fan]

Nothing political. Kennedy's are known for hitting everything. They get involved with a lot of skanks.

Regardless, you are wrong about Taylor Swift. She is not a skank. FYI.

[a700hitter]

Regardless, you are wrong about Taylor Swift. She is not a skank. FYI.She seems like a nice girl. I just had to question her judgment dating a Kennedy.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I would do things to Taylor Swift that would get me excommunicated, and I'm not even a Catholic. And I don't usually like blondes.

Also, am I the only one who keeps seeing "Shooting up the Rotation" when I glance at the page?

[VA Sox Fan]

I would do things to Taylor Swift that would get me excommunicated, and I'm not even a Catholic. And I don't usually like blondes.

Also, am I the only one who keeps seeing "Shooting up the Rotation" when I glance at the page?

Yes, but funny as hell! :lol:

[BornToRun]

Nothing political. Kennedy's are known for hitting everything. They get involved with a lot of skanks.

Fair point.

[a700hitter]

I checked the PawSox box score to see if Ortiz was in the lineup tonight. He went 1 for 3 with 2 k's. Rubby De La Rosa had his third terrible start in a row. His ERA is at 13.50.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Don't know what the terms are to be considered a skank, but she's not an angel either. You can't even count on the fingers how many guys she has dated. She's not really that pretty either. There are so much better looking celebrities.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

She dates a lot of guys? That filthy harlot!

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Doesn't automatically make her a harlot. I just said she's not an angel like everyone makes her out to be. She's probably dated more guys than Kim Kardashian. Makes sense, considering she has so many songs about ex boyfriends :lol:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Why would dating a lot of guys preclude her from being an angel?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I only brought that up, because someone mentioned she was a skank for dating someone. When I say angel, I don't really mean how she is. I was leaning towards she's not the type that doesn't date. Lots of people think Swift is like the perfect celebrity, and I honestly don't see why.

You could say the same about Kim Kardashian, although the sex tape thing was just foul. That pretty much ruined her.

[Bellhorn04]

I have very little opinion on Taylor Swift, and I think BTR is great, but I can't understand why he would use her as his avatar.

[BSN07]

Why would dating a lot of guys preclude her from being an angel?

If anything going through guys the way she does statistically gives us normal guys a marginally higher % of getting some Swiftness, for that she should be Sainted.

[Orange Juiced]

Username, I don't appreciate the inappropriate comments about my future wife. Everybody else, your support is appreciated and I'll be sure to tell Taylor whenever it is I meet her and propose.

The only downside, it would seem, about getting involved with her is that when the inevitable breakup occurs, she's going to write a real nasty song about you.

And on this theme, here's something pretty funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2KI0COH9PY

[User Name?]

I'd take my chances of both that and facing BTR's wrath to put my sausage in her pink taco.

[Bellhorn04]

Katy Perry is more my type. That chick is stacked.

[User Name?]

Katy Perry is more my type. That chick is stacked.

Yeah she's got some pretty eyes to go along with that nice rack.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Katy Perry is more my type. That chick is stacked.

Preach.

[seabeachfred]

I checked the PawSox box score to see if Ortiz was in the lineup tonight. He went 1 for 3 with 2 k's. Rubby De La Rosa had his third terrible start in a row. His ERA is at 13.50.

I almost forgot this was a "shoring up the rotation" thread Ted. I just hope that Papi is not real stale and his timing way off when he gets into the lineup. We know only too well what he is capable of not doing when he is not ready and hi timing is off. As for DeLaRosa, the guy IS a shank, male version. The guy is not worth much and I doubt if he ever will be. He throws and doesn't know how to pitch. The Dodgers lost nothing when they dumped him on us. Barring a miracle or unforseen circumstances he is going to be nothing but a white elephant to us.

[BornToRun]

I'm sure glad that the FO doesn't give up on young flame throwers as easily as you do.

[jung]

I would have loved to have seen Masterson back here in spite of his poor showing the other night. I would bet money that he would thrive under the watchful eyes of Farrell and Nieves. Whatever we might think of Tito, managing and handling pitchers was not his strong suit.

[Behindenemylines]

I wouldn't give up on DeLaRosa just yet. A lot of people said a lot of good things about his stuff before he got hurt. Plus the Sox are in no rush with him any way. Getting rocked in AAA is no big deal. It may take a season at AAA for him to get his shit together.

[Dojji]

Not too concerned about the rate stats of a pitcher just now coming back from TJ. Even if I didn't think he'd improve, I'm not counting on him for much this year any way. De la Rosa is a longer term project.

[seabeachfred]

I'm sure glad that the FO doesn't give up on young flame throwers as easily as you do.

Perhaps not BTR but you have to keep in mind that I've seen this guy pitch two years ago out here in Los Angeles and he wasn't impressive then at all. His ball was flat, he got behind the hitters and he got hit pretty hard. Yes, he is still very young, has a very live arm and could develop but he looks to be the same pitcher he was two seasons ago, plus he lost some velocity because of TJ surgery. Pedro Martinez thinks he may be a comer so, like you, he disagrees with me as well. Well hopefully I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time nor the last. BTW, I hear Alan Webster has been called up and will pitch in the second game of the DH tomorrow. He seems to have a higher upside.

[jung]

I think calling up Webster to pitch this game is a really interesting development. Circumstances have really created so much opportunity for us to see young players play this year....JBJ, Iggy, now Webster. We have been so incredibly fortunate so far and have been treated to so much interesting and exciting baseball.

Funny how the organization could not buy a break the last couple years. So many of their marketing efforts fall on deaf ears mainly because the core product was just so unappealing. Now, they seem to land in a bed of roses no matter what they do because the core product is so appealing.

[User Name?]

Fred, how many times did you see De La Rosa pitch? Did you see him enough times to make your take on him meaningful?

Also, you're going against everything reported about the guy. Supossedly he's lost no velo after TJ, and his problem has been regaining control of his secondary stuff.

[SCM33]

I almost forgot this was a "shoring up the rotation" thread Ted. I just hope that Papi is not real stale and his timing way off when he gets into the lineup. We know only too well what he is capable of not doing when he is not ready and hi timing is off. As for DeLaRosa, the guy IS a shank, male version. The guy is not worth much and I doubt if he ever will be. He throws and doesn't know how to pitch. The Dodgers lost nothing when they dumped him on us. Barring a miracle or unforseen circumstances he is going to be nothing but a white elephant to us.


Im sure that makes you happy.

Why is he a white elephant for us Boston Redsox fans? The Redsox got your hometown team, the Los Angeles Dodgers to take all our trash. If he does well, great.....if not....well, we are still 13-4 and your Dodgers are 7-8 right now.

I love the fact that you were so wrong about Cherington, you look pretty ridiculous at this point. You trashed them all offseason......every move he made, or didn't make you were right there to bitch, moan and complain, meanwhile I defended him knowing that Ben Cherington got rid of Josh Beckett, and that single transaction made all the difference in the world.

Actually, its almost impossible for you to root for them to succeed after all the negativity you have voiced on this forum....for if you started actually rooting for this team as they are winning, you would just be simply jumping on the bandwagon.

Continue with you hate towards Cherington and the Boston Redsox Fred, it makes it all that much fun to be around :)

[a700hitter]

Im sure that makes you happy.

Why is he a white elephant for us Boston Redsox fans? The Redsox got your hometown team, the Los Angeles Dodgers to take all our trash. If he does well, great.....if not....well, we are still 13-4 and your Dodgers are 7-8 right now.

I love the fact that you were so wrong about Cherington, you look pretty ridiculous at this point. You trashed them all offseason......every move he made, or didn't make you were right there to bitch, moan and complain, meanwhile I defended him knowing that Ben Cherington got rid of Josh Beckett, and that single transaction made all the difference in the world.

Actually, its almost impossible for you to root for them to succeed after all the negativity you have voiced on this forum....for if you started actually rooting for this team as they are winning, you would just be simply jumping on the bandwagon.

Continue with you hate towards Cherington and the Boston Redsox Fred, it makes it all that much fun to be around :)Fred is happy. The Red Sox are winning.

[SCM33]

Fred is happy. The Red Sox are winning.

So he jumped back on?

Wait until they lose a few.....then cherries will be an idiot again.

[seabeachfred]

Im sure that makes you happy.

Why is he a white elephant for us Boston Redsox fans? The Redsox got your hometown team, the Los Angeles Dodgers to take all our trash. If he does well, great.....if not....well, we are still 13-4 and your Dodgers are 7-8 right now.

I love the fact that you were so wrong about Cherington, you look pretty ridiculous at this point. You trashed them all offseason......every move he made, or didn't make you were right there to bitch, moan and complain, meanwhile I defended him knowing that Ben Cherington got rid of Josh Beckett, and that single transaction made all the difference in the world.

Actually, its almost impossible for you to root for them to succeed after all the negativity you have voiced on this forum....for if you started actually rooting for this team as they are winning, you would just be simply jumping on the bandwagon.

Continue with you hate towards Cherington and the Boston Redsox Fred, it makes it all that much fun to be around :)

My Dodgers? Fuck You, you gullible worthless piece of shit. You can keep this up but I'll be coming at you with a helluva lot invective than you'll be able to take. It's your choice shitface. You stop and this pissing contest will end. You can't be that fucking dumb that you actually believe the shit you're posting about me. If so you are one of the two most pathetic excuses on this board. And for the record turdman I said Cherington's signing of Napoli was a good move as was his signing of Drew and Uehara, but that slipped by your alleged mind. Keep posting this crap and I will answer in kind. What a putz you are.

[seabeachfred]

So he jumped back on?

Wait until they lose a few.....then cherries will be an idiot again.

Kiss my ass dickweed. I told you before that this shit can stop provided you cease with these nasty and inaccurate descriptions of me, but you insist on keeping it up. I know it has gotten very personal on your end and I will call you out on it every time you do. Sooner or later you will cease and desist and just leave me the hell alone or I'll make you look like even a bigger gullible piece of shit than you are.

How the hell you can still believe that I am not a Red Sox fan makes me believe that you have shit for brains. Even mvp, who I argue with as much as I do you, even he knows I'm a Red Sox fan. You can't help yourself. Most pricks can't.

[SCM33]

My Dodgers? Fuck You, you gullible worthless piece of shit. You can keep this up but I'll be coming at you with a helluva lot invective than you'll be able to take. It's your choice shitface. You stop and this pissing contest will end. You can't be that fucking dumb that you actually believe the shit you're posting about me. If so you are one of the two most pathetic excuses on this board. And for the record turdman I said Cherington's signing of Napoli was a good move as was his signing of Drew and Uehara, but that slipped by your alleged mind. Keep posting this crap and I will answer in kind. What a putz you are.

hahaha, ok.

I do think there is a better way to respond without the expletives, but I guess you have to show everyone that you are the toughest 83 year old in the world :thumbsup::rolleyes::thumbsup::rolleyes::lol:

[a700hitter]

Im sure that makes you happy.

Why is he a white elephant for us Boston Redsox fans? The Redsox got your hometown team, the Los Angeles Dodgers to take all our trash. If he does well, great.....if not....well, we are still 13-4 and your Dodgers are 7-8 right now.

I love the fact that you were so wrong about Cherington, you look pretty ridiculous at this point. You trashed them all offseason......every move he made, or didn't make you were right there to bitch, moan and complain, meanwhile I defended him knowing that Ben Cherington got rid of Josh Beckett, and that single transaction made all the difference in the world.

Actually, its almost impossible for you to root for them to succeed after all the negativity you have voiced on this forum....for if you started actually rooting for this team as they are winning, you would just be simply jumping on the bandwagon.

Continue with you hate towards Cherington and the Boston Redsox Fred, it makes it all that much fun to be around :)It is more than a little assinine to tell a fan that he can't root for his team because he criticized some off season moves. My recollection is that Fred actually like some of the offseason moves, but why let accuracy get in the way of this BS ^. My recollection is that you have had strong opinions about Daniel Nava stiinking. He has been a major contributor to the sox fast start. By your logic, that would make it impossible for you to root for the Sox to succeed. Ridiculous... right? Hey, the Dodgers will take you in as a fan.:harhar:

[seabeachfred]

hahaha, ok.

I do think there is a better way to respond without the expletives, but I guess you have to show everyone that you are the toughest 83 year old in the world :thumbsup::rolleyes::thumbsup::rolleyes::lol::

I'm not going to respond with anything but expletives if you keep making lying and totally inaccurate statements about me----statements you have to know are false. You are trying to goad me into getting pissed off and you will succeed with the way you're going about it. Try a different tack and we can argue the pros and cons like gentlemen. I'll tell you this one more damn time. I became a Red Sox fan in 2000 and I live and die with them, sometimes I can't bear to watch them on TV and have to leave the room because I get the shakes. The second thing you have to know and get through that head of yours is that I am not a Dodger fan, haven't been since they left Brooklyn and at this point in my life can't stand them. It would have been great for them to beat the Orioles in that DH to help the Red Sox but I despise them so much I was rooting for the O's.

Now let's see if this crap can end. I will be more than happy to treat you with respect if you will show me the same courtesy by not trying to get my goat.

[a700hitter]

So he jumped back on?

Wait until they lose a few.....then cherries will be an idiot again.This is idiotic unprovoked obnoxious baiting. Go give someone a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt so you can feel important.

[seabeachfred]

hahaha, ok.

I do think there is a better way to respond without the expletives, but I guess you have to show everyone that you are the toughest 83 year old in the world :thumbsup::rolleyes::thumbsup::rolleyes::lol:

And by the way, why the hell are you up so late. It's 1:30 a.m. where you live. Don't you ever turn in?

[SCM33]

It is more than a little assinine to tell a fan that he can't root for his team because he criticized some off season moves. My recollection is that Fred actually like some of the offseason moves, but why let accuracy get in the way of this BS ^. My recollection is that you have had strong opinions about Daniel Nava stiinking. He has been a major contributor to the sox fast start. By your logic, that would make it impossible for you to root for the Sox to succeed. Ridiculous... right? Hey, the Dodgers will take you in as a fan.:harhar:

The tag team duo I see.

It was more than a little criticism. I believe you were part of that tag team during that time as well, how stupid of me not to know you would be in his corner.

There is a difference between criticism and the bullshit you guys spewed last year and throughout the offseason.

[SCM33]

And by the way, why the hell are you up so late. It's 1:30 a.m. where you live. Don't you ever turn in?

There is no bedtime when you do what I do for a living. You sleep when you can.....under 4 hours a night usually.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

http://ecoki.com/wp-content/uploads/fourth-of-july-fireworks-300x225.jpg

[SCM33]

This is idiotic unprovoked obnoxious baiting. Go give someone a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt so you can feel important.

To protect a life? Any day of the week.

Talk about idiotic.

[a700hitter]

The tag team duo I see.

It was more than a little criticism. I believe you were part of that tag team during that time as well, how stupid of me not to know you would be in his corner.

There is a difference between criticism and the bullshit you guys spewed last year and throughout the offseason.GFY flatfoot. I am going to continue rooting for the Sox as I have for 47 years. So, screw off.:lol: If they keep wiinning, even an idiot like you can't bother me, so go give someone a ticket for parking too far from the curb if you want to ruffle someone's feathers.:harhar:

[a700hitter]

To protect a life? Any day of the week.

Talk about idiotic.I am pretty sure that you are one of those cops that gives tickets just to be a prick.

[a700hitter]

And by the way, why the hell are you up so late. It's 1:30 a.m. where you live. Don't you ever turn in?He's getting overtime and he's bored.:lol:

[SCM33]

I am pretty sure that you are one of those cops that gives tickets just to be a prick.

All depends on the temperament of the subject. You, might write ya double time......

Of course, I could figure out exactly who you are and where you live, but that would be a waste of state resources.

[a700hitter]

All depends on the temperament of the subject. You, might write ya double time.
Of course, I could figure out exactly who you are and where you live, but that would be a waste of state resources.Yeah right Barney Fife. Loser.

[SCM33]

Yehh right Barney Fife. Loser.

:D

[a700hitter]

All depends on the temperament of the subject. You, might write ya double time......

Of course, I could figure out exactly who you are and where you live, but that would be a waste of state resources.It would probably also be an abuse of power and a crime, but go right ahead, jackass. I'd get a good laugh when my law enforcement friends would slap the cuffs on you. You'd probably get thrown off the force and lose your pension too, so go ahead make my day.:harhar:

[a700hitter]

I'm licking my chops. I have some friends in the Department of Justice too.

[SCM33]

It would probably also be an abuse of power and a crime, but go right ahead, jackass. I'd get a good laugh when my law enforcement friends would slap the cuffs on you. You'd probably get thrown off the force and lose your pension too, so go ahead make my day.:harhar:

Im not a cop, Ive already said that I only work part-time as a petty patrolman.

I am however, on the FBI task force as a part of my full-time role for a Sherriff's Department Internal Affairs and Security Investigations Unit, so goodluck.

[a700hitter]

Im not a cop, Ive already said that I only work part-time as a petty patrolman.

I am however, on the FBI task force as a part of my full-time role for a Sherriff's Department Internal Affairs and Security Investigations Unit, so goodluck.No, good luck to you part time deputy.

[SCM33]

No, good luck to you part time deputy.

:D

[Big Guy]

break it up!

[a700hitter]

Citizens Arrest!!! Citizens Arrest!! Good luck Gomer.

[SCM33]

Citizens Arrest!!! Citizens Arrest!! Good luck Gomer.

oh thats not nice, kinda funny....but you missed the mark.

[a700hitter]

oh thats not nice, kinda funny....but you missed the mark.I never miss the mark.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Lol, adults arguing on a board at 2 am.....

[a700hitter]

Lol, adults arguing on a board at 2 am.....And I just checked in to talk baseball.:dunno:

[SCM33]

No, good luck to you part time deputy.

You missed the mark here.

Part-time patrolman for a separate department in addition to my fulltime job working the streets in plain clothes for the FBI task force + investigations/IAD at a Sheriffs Dept....

So you kinda missed the mark.

[a700hitter]

You missed the mark here.

Part-time patrolman for a separate department in addition to my fulltime job working the streets in plain clothes for the FBI task force + investigations/IAD at a Sheriffs Dept....

So you kinda missed the mark.Then go keep the people safe and stop wasting your time breaking balls of baseball fans. I am surprised that they didn't flag you on some psychological or other background check. Emotional instability is not a good quality in an undercover job.

[SCM33]

Then go keep the people safe and stop wasting your time breaking balls of baseball fans. I am surprised that they didn't flag you on some psychological or other background check. Emotional instability is not a good quality in an undercover job.

Its a baseball forum on the internet. Relax.

[a700hitter]

Its a baseball forum on the internet. Relax.Jerking your chain. I thought a sharp under cover guy like you would have picked up on that. Stay away from infiltrating any tough gangs. You might get hurt.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Does the pot need stirring? I'm not ready for this to end.

[SCM33]

Jerking your chain. I thought a sharp under cover guy like you would have picked up on that. Stay away from infiltrating any tough gangs. You might get hurt.

You have no idea the stuff I have seen in the last week, and I wasn't even on the ground in Boston.

I deal mostly with Boston Street Gangs......Franklin Hill, 1850 Wash, Heath St., Mass Ave Hornets, Columbia St....

Of course you always have your factions of the MS-13, Asian Boyz, GD's, Latin Kings and the People Nation (Bloods and smaller subsets) and the Folk Nation (Crips and smaller subsets).

I do a lot of territiry identifying by looking at tags and decoding their meaning as every tag tells a story.

[SCM33]

Does the pot need stirring? I'm not ready for this to end.

It will end, I do not provoke a700, I tend to like him as we have both been here since 2005.....I understand he has to protect his boy fred.

[a700hitter]

You have no idea the stuff I have seen in the last week, and I wasn't even on the ground in Boston.

I deal mostly with Boston Street Gangs......Franklin Hill, 1850 Wash, Heath St., Mass Ave Hornets, Columbia St....

Of course you always have your factions of the MS-13, Asian Boyz, GD's, Latin Kings and the People Nation (Bloods and smaller subsets) and the Folk Nation (Crips and smaller subsets).

I do a lot of territiry identifying by looking at tags and decoding their meaning as every tag tells a story.For their sake, I hope none of them are critical of Ben Cherrington.

I'm going to get some sleep. Tomorrow's a long day of baseball. Plus, now I have to go buy a phony mustache and eyeglasses to avoid detection by Inspector Clouseau.;)

[a700hitter]

It will end, I do not provoke a700, I tend to like him as we have both been here since 2005.....I understand he has to protect his boy fred.It's just not right that everyone attacks Fred. He's actually a very friendly guy who enjoys baseball to the point of obsession.

[a700hitter]

SCM, you apparently spend your time around a lot of scumbags in your profession. We are all on the same side on TalkSox, except for Jacko, and he is not a bad guy either.

[RedSoxNC84]

Damn, I missed all the fun.

[win red sox]

I can see were scm is coming from. Ben was crucified by some posters for his offseason moves he made this year by signing victorino (who has a higher fwar than hamilton, bourn, bj upton), signing dempster(there was some posters here who wanted Haren or Mccartney, which both are gettiing hammered). Benny the boob as some posters will call him had his hands tied last offseason with theo's mess and was able to dump 250 million in unproductive salary while grabbing 2 high upside arms and eventually trading for an allstar closer this offseason. Mr Cherrington has done an excellent job in his tenure and this needs to be recognized, Mr Cherrington has a plan and if the red sox make or don't make the playoffs the year, I hope he sticks to it. For the posters who criticized his moves this offseason, its only fair that you get called out on it. Personally I haven't been this excited about a red sox team since 86 when greenwell, burks, and benzinger where the future. I guess I'm a "ballwasher".

[User Name?]

Excellent post.

[Bellhorn04]

Fred actually behaves much better here than he did on Sawxheads when I was there. :lol:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't know, fartface and turdman are pretty vile things to call somebody.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Pumped to get to see Allen Webster today!!!

Not sure if people have talked about this yet, I tried going back a few pages but just saw a bunch of fighting.

Anyway, lets hope he makes it hard to send him back down, even though they obviously have to because he's the 26th man in the DH. Either way, I have a feeling that Webster is going to be on Doubronts heals pretty soon, unless Doubie can somehow figure out how to be efficient.

[User Name?]

Farrell indicated Lackey will go on a rehab assignment starting tomorrow, but if he pitches well he could be activated immediately after.

[VA Sox Fan]

Fred actually behaves much better here than he did on Sawxheads when I was there. :lol:


That is sad and pathetic to know. What a miserable board that must be.

[FredLynn]

I can see were scm is coming from. Ben was crucified by some posters for his offseason moves he made this year by signing victorino (who has a higher fwar than hamilton, bourn, bj upton), signing dempster(there was some posters here who wanted Haren or Mccartney, which both are gettiing hammered). Benny the boob as some posters will call him had his hands tied last offseason with theo's mess and was able to dump 250 million in unproductive salary while grabbing 2 high upside arms and eventually trading for an allstar closer this offseason. Mr Cherrington has done an excellent job in his tenure and this needs to be recognized, Mr Cherrington has a plan and if the red sox make or don't make the playoffs the year, I hope he sticks to it. For the posters who criticized his moves this offseason, its only fair that you get called out on it. Personally I haven't been this excited about a red sox team since 86 when greenwell, burks, and benzinger where the future. I guess I'm a "ballwasher".

Its April 21. Isn't it a little early to pass judgement on Ben's offseason moves? Both Dempster and Victorino have certainly exceeded expectations, but come July when half the season has been played, who knows what their numbers will look like. Or in Victorino's case, how will obtaining him look in the third year of his contract? For my part, I am just going to sit back and enjoy the ride. Judging this team's parts will take more time than three weeks of a six month season.

[VA Sox Fan]

It is more than a little assinine to tell a fan that he can't root for his team because he criticized some off season moves. My recollection is that Fred actually like some of the offseason moves, but why let accuracy get in the way of this BS ^. My recollection is that you have had strong opinions about Daniel Nava stiinking. He has been a major contributor to the sox fast start. By your logic, that would make it impossible for you to root for the Sox to succeed. Ridiculous... right? Hey, the Dodgers will take you in as a fan.:harhar:

I don't recall SCM33's opinion on Nava in the off season. I do recall you constantly putting him down. Here is one of your posts from January:

We should have a moratorium on this. We all like Nava, but he is just not a major league outfielder. He doesn't have major league skills. If he is on the opening day roster, it wouldn't signal disaster, but IMO it would not be a good signal.

Of course it's still very early in the season. When you make blanket statements like the one above, it makes you look not so bright. :lol:

[User Name?]

Its April 21. Isn't it a little early to pass judgement on Ben's offseason moves? Both Dempster and Victorino have certainly exceeded expectations, but come July when half the season has been played, who knows what their numbers will look like. Or in Victorino's case, how will obtaining him look in the third year of his contract? For my part, I am just going to sit back and enjoy the ride. Judging this team's parts will take more time than three weeks of a six month season.

So how can you accurately judge them before they've played an inning of baseball with the Sox? I think that's the main problem

[a700hitter]

I don't recall SCM33's opinion on Nava in the off season. I do recall you constantly putting him down. Here is one of your posts from January:

We should have a moratorium on this. We all like Nava, but he is just not a major league outfielder. He doesn't have major league skills. If he is on the opening day roster, it wouldn't signal disaster, but IMO it would not be a good signal.

Of course it's still very early in the season. When you make blanket statements like the one above, it makes you look not so bright. :lol:What's your point? I didn't make any claim that I was a believer that Nava would make it in the majors.

[VA Sox Fan]

What's your point? I didn't make any claim that I was a believer that Nava would make it in the majors.

My point is you were constantly putting him down, saying he wasn't a major leaguer and that'd he'd be pumping gas in the next few years.

You called out SCM33 out of the blue when I don't recall him even posting much during the off season let alone saying Nava stinks like you constantly did.

[FredLynn]

So how can you accurately judge them before they've played an inning of baseball with the Sox? I think that's the main problem

I am not judging anyone right now. I like what I see so far, but only 10% of the season has been played. You can use some statistical analysis to make an educated guess about how the major league acquisitions might perform for the team, but in many ways Boston is different than other markets. If you are referring to Lavarnway or some of our other prospects you are right: until they get a fair shot, assuming they deserve it based on their minor league performances, we cannot accurately judge how they might perform in the ML. The problem with some of them, like Lavarnway, is that he will most likely never get a shot at it. So is it better to let him wallow in our minor league system or should we package him and try to get help at a position we are weak at?

[jung]

You really can't put a moratorium on discussion or comment on a discussion board. Some people have one opinion, others have another and that is what makes a board a board worth visiting.

[User Name?]

I am not judging anyone right now. I like what I see so far, but only 10% of the season has been played. You can use some statistical analysis to make an educated guess about how the major league acquisitions might perform for the team, but in many ways Boston is different than other markets. If you are referring to Lavarnway or some of our other prospects you are right: until they get a fair shot, assuming they deserve it based on their minor league performances, we cannot accurately judge how they might perform in the ML. The problem with some of them, like Lavarnway, is that he will most likely never get a shot at it. So is it better to let him wallow in our minor league system or should we package him and try to get help at a position we are weak at?

You misunderstood my post. What i was referring to is that those who criticized the acquisitions as stupid and a waste of money before the players even put ink to contract have even less ground to stand on than those who think the acquisitions have been succesful. The second group at least has a Spring Training and a 1/10th of the season to base their arguments one. The ones who immediately started bitching and moaning had nothing to go on.

You can argue that you could then use career stats to analyze the players, but then you'd be left with the idea that they were pretty good acquisitions, even if overpaid.

[a700hitter]

My point is you were constantly putting him down, saying he wasn't a major leaguer and that'd he'd be pumping gas in the next few years.

You called out SCM33 out of the blue when I don't recall him even posting much during the off season let alone saying Nava stinks like you constantly did.Defective memories is a good reason why posters shouldn't call each other out about things that were discussed weeks or months ago.

Maybe you should search the terms SCM and Nava. You will find some strong opinions from him about Nava. The next time maybe you should double check your faulty memory. I should also point out that the issue wasn't anyone's opinion about Nava, but that went right over your head I guess.

[a700hitter]

You really can't put a moratorium on discussion or comment on a discussion board. Some people have one opinion, others have another and that is what makes a board a board worth visiting.The idea is that everyone has to walk in lock step or risk being ridiculed.:lol:

[User Name?]

You really can't put a moratorium on discussion or comment on a discussion board. Some people have one opinion, others have another and that is what makes a board a board worth visiting.

That doesn't give people carte blanche to be idiots.

[VA Sox Fan]

Defective memories is a good reason why posters shouldn't call each other out about things that were discussed weeks or months ago.

Maybe you should search the terms SCM and Nava. You will find some strong opinions from him about Nava. The next time maybe you should double check your faulty memory. I should also point out that the issue wasn't anyone's opinion about Nava, but that went right over your head I guess.

I did go back and check. I was wrong about SCM33 and his hatred for Nava.

You were almost as hard on Nava.

You both are wrong, so far.

Enjoy defending sbf and personally attacking other posters who pick on him. It is, after all, what you do best! :thumbsup::lol:

[a700hitter]

I did go back and check. I was wrong about SCM33 and his hatred for Nava.

You were almost as hard on Nava.

You both are wrong, so far.

Enjoy defending sbf and personally attacking other posters who pick on him. It is, after all, what you do best! :thumbsup::lol:When everyone attacks one person, it looks like bullying, but join right in.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Everyone shut up. It's pretty easy to disagree about baseball without acting like assholes. When someone questions your fandom or something else, it's possible to reply without resorting to a two-paragraph block of profanity. Everyone just stop, because you're all starting to annoy me. Talk about baseball, not each other.

[FredLynn]

You misunderstood my post. What i was referring to is that those who criticized the acquisitions as stupid and a waste of money before the players even put ink to contract have even less ground to stand on than those who think the acquisitions have been succesful. The second group at least has a Spring Training and a 1/10th of the season to base their arguments one. The ones who immediately started bitching and moaning had nothing to go on.

You can argue that you could then use career stats to analyze the players, but then you'd be left with the idea that they were pretty good acquisitions, even if overpaid.

Got it. I do not necessarily agree however that until a player has played for the Red Sox one cannot form a reasonable opinion about the wisdom of acquiring a player as long as there is some logic and statistics to back up that opinion. The acquisition of Carl Crawford is an example of this. Many people did not think he was a good match for the team and felt that his career OPS of .781 with the Rays was not worth the money he was to be paid in Boston and that that money was better spend elsewhere. Crawford had not played a single inning for the team but reasonable opinions about him abounded. The same can be said of Victorino and Dempster.

[a700hitter]

Everyone shut up. It's pretty easy to disagree about baseball without acting like assholes. When someone questions your fandom or something else, it's possible to reply without resorting to a two-paragraph block of profanity. Everyone just stop, because you're all starting to annoy me. Talk about baseball, not each other.It should always be about baseball.

[User Name?]

Got it. I do not necessarily agree however that until a player has played for the Red Sox one cannot form a reasonable opinion about the wisdom of acquiring a player as long as there is some logic and statistics to back up that opinion. The acquisition of Carl Crawford is an example of this. Many people did not think he was a good match for the team and felt that his career OPS of .781 with the Rays was not worth the money he was to be paid in Boston and that that money was better spend elsewhere. Crawford had not played a single inning for the team but reasonable opinions about him abounded. The same can be said of Victorino and Dempster.

Crawford though, got a mega-contract although he had some glaring holes in his game. So i don't think the CC-Victorino/Dempster comparison applies. I think a more fitting comparison would be Victorino-Cameron, but even there you see the glaring problems in one (age) that the other one doesn't have.

[SCM33]

My point is you were constantly putting him down, saying he wasn't a major leaguer and that'd he'd be pumping gas in the next few years.

You called out SCM33 out of the blue when I don't recall him even posting much during the off season let alone saying Nava stinks like you constantly did.

Yeah, Ive been pretty hard on him......and 40 AB's has not changed that.

[Dojji]

No it would be premature to conclude anything about Nava right now. He's off to a good start, but he was last year too and fizzled out -- whether he did it because of skill or health is somewhat beside the point, since there's no reason either one wouldn' rear its ugly head this year too.

Let's see where he is at the break.

[a700hitter]

No it would be premature to conclude anything about Nava right now. He's off to a good start, but he was last year too and fizzled out -- whether he did it because of skill or health is somewhat beside the point, since there's no reason either one wouldn' rear its ugly head this year too.

Let's see where he is at the break.He's just supposed to be a bench guy (possibly a platoon guy). If he gets cold, he'll go back to the bench until he is needed again. He's done way more than anyone could have expected thus far. He can never be faulted for lack of effort. He gives his all.

[VA Sox Fan]

It should always be about baseball.

A good reminder to us all.

[dupree]

Aceves and Steven Wright giving up 13 runs to the A's on a rainy tuesday night. Never thought that i would be wishing on Lackey and Morales to get back off the DL but im at that point now. Never thought those words come out of my mouth. Aceves is fine in the middle or long relief but im just not confrontable with him in a starting role, and as far a steven wright goes never been a fan of a knuckler, i appreciate what Wake done for us but that ship has sailed in my opinion.

[mvp 78]

Anyway, Bard is called up (40 man issues) and Wright is sent down. Aceves is gone when Lackey comes back. Who goes when Morales and Breslow come back? Miller and Wilson?

[jung]

I would bet that unless he does something to support his continuing with the big club that Bard will go back down again for one. The only reason he is coming up now is because there are no other arms down there more trustworthy than his. That is a far cry from saying he is trustworthy. The fact that they brought Wright here first, should be a sign regarding the trustworthiness of Bard. Wright had not shown anybody anything that suggested he could pitch up here to this point. So the Wright "experiment" fails but we need somebody to pitch some innings. Well, lets dust off Bard's old uni. But unless Bard shows something Miller is at this point a better option and so is Wilson.

[a700hitter]

De La Rosa last night pitched 3 scoreless innings giving up 1 hit, 2 walks and 1 k. An improvement-- a small step.