The Jacoby Ellsbury trade extravaganza thread

[MANNYHOF24]

Let's face it, Ellsbury is going to be moved for pitching. I set this thread up so we can discuss what type of deal might be made. I've heard Cliff Lee so far. What about masterson and Cabrera in a deal with the Indians?

[BSN07]

Pass on Lee. He's owed a shit ton of money so I'd rather have Halladay.

Ellsbury being moved for pitching seems likely at this point though. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head they should dangle him for.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Give me Cliff Lee, all day, everyday.

You want a bonafide ace? You gotta pony up.

Going to take Ellsbury + 1 top prospect (I would think Bradley).

Cliff Lee is a guy who turns this team right back into a contender. Instantly.

[BSN07]

Give me Cliff Lee, all day, everyday.

You want a bonafide ace? You gotta pony up.

Going to take Ellsbury + 1 top prospect (I would think Bradley).

Cliff Lee is a guy who turns this team right back into a contender. Instantly.

He's owed way too much money. Philly is gonna have to eat a good size chunk before I like it. Lee is on the way out of his prime. The Red Sox should not stick themselves with paying for what Lee has done.

[BSN07]

I'm thinking an Ellsbury for Vargas type deal might be better.

Ideally I trade Lester for Myers and flip Myers+Ellsbury+++ for King Felix hahaha

[Palodios]

Garza. Johann. Price. Cahill. Vargas. Floyd. There are pitchers out there who are semi-available. Go get 'em.

[BSN07]

Garza. Johann. Price. Cahill. Vargas. Floyd. There are pitchers out there who are semi-available. Go get 'em.

Price would be the cherry on Cherries off season sundae

[wyo-sox]

Let's face it, Ellsbury is going to be moved for pitching. I set this thread up so we can discuss what type of deal might be made. I've heard Cliff Lee so far. What about masterson and Cabrera in a deal with the Indians?

I did read the Indians are talking to Kevin Youk. So it would at least be ammusingly ironic if Ells ended up sharing a locker room with Youk, lol.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He's owed way too much money. Philly is gonna have to eat a good size chunk before I like it. Lee is on the way out of his prime. The Red Sox should not stick themselves with paying for what Lee has done.

Lee is still an elite, elite SP. He's good for a low 3's ERA every year.

For a team who is in as bad of shape as the Sox are, Vargas wouldn't get close to fixing the rotation.

Lee fixes it almost instantly.

And you have De La Rosa as your #6 man.

I would pull the trigger on a deal of Bradley + Ellsbury for Lee + $2-3mm annually.

[BSN07]

I did read the Indians are talking to Kevin Youk. So it would at least be ammusingly ironic if Ells ended up sharing a locker room with Youk, lol.

Ellsbury for Masterson? Cleveland was looking for CF/leadoff

[BSN07]

Lee is still an elite, elite SP. He's good for a low 3's ERA every year.

For a team who is in as bad of shape as the Sox are, Vargas wouldn't get close to fixing the rotation.

Lee fixes it almost instantly.

And you have De La Rosa as your #6 man.

I would pull the trigger on a deal of Bradley + Ellsbury for Lee + $2-3mm annually.

Bradley and Ellsbury? No fing way. They get Ellsbury and a couple lower tier guys with that anchor of a contract. I'm in no hurry to give Philly a get out of jail free card, give them a CF, + CF of the future and the resources to go sign Hamilton. F that :lol:

[BSN07]

Ok I just considered the Sox have a decent amount of money coming off the books over the next couple years so maybe the $ for Lee won't be too bad. I offer Ellsbury+Brentz+Cecchini max.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ok I just considered the Sox have a decent amount of money coming off the books over the next couple years so maybe the $ for Lee won't be too bad. I offer Ellsbury+Brentz+Cecchini max.

That very well could do it, too.

[mvp 78]

Ellsbury for Masterson? Cleveland was looking for CF/leadoff

It'd be Ells for Masterson+

[BSN07]

That very well could do it, too.

Philly gets their CF, OF prospect and possible future 3B which Cecchini has no chance of being with the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

It'd be Ells for Masterson+

Not with Jacoby only being controlled for one season and Masterson having multiple years. Likely Sox would have to Add in a Webster or Workman

[redsoxrules]

Pass on Masterson

[BSN07]

Pass on Masterson

He's on my list, but kinda a ways down. The Philly deal makes sense

[SoxFanForsyth]

Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
You can put the rumors of Ellsbury-for-Cliff Lee to rest. "Not a prayer," source said.

Lets wait until Bourn signs. Then we'll see how interested the Phillies would be in getting a CF, which they're desperate for.

[mvp 78]

Not with Jacoby only being controlled for one season and Masterson having multiple years. Likely Sox would have to Add in a Webster or Workman

Masterson is a fifth starter. He's not worth an everyday player. Career ERA at 4.2, WHIP at 1.4. He's worth Salty, not Ellsbury.

[mvp 78]

Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
You can put the rumors of Ellsbury-for-Cliff Lee to rest. "Not a prayer," source said.

Lets wait until Bourn signs. Then we'll see how interested the Phillies would be in getting a CF, which they're desperate for.

Heard they prefer Upron.

[BSN07]

Heard they prefer Upron.

Who?

[Station 13]

Not with Jacoby only being controlled for one season and Masterson having multiple years. Likely Sox would have to Add in a Webster or Workman

I would rage.

[Station 13]

Ellsbury would been nice for Atlanta for one of their starters. Ship sail after they signed Upton.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Heard they prefer Upron.

Phils and DBacks don't match up well.

[Palodios]

Ellsbury would definitely mean a three team trade. Ellsbury to a contender for prospects, and those prospects and possibly more prospects for a pitcher. Anyone giving up an elite or high-tier pitcher doesn't want a one year rental on Ellsbury.

[Lucienbel]

Ellsbury would definitely mean a three team trade. Ellsbury to a contender for prospects, and those prospects and possibly more prospects for a pitcher. Anyone giving up an elite or high-tier pitcher doesn't want a one year rental on Ellsbury.

Quite possible. I'm interested in who we could actually pull of given the situation. No real feelings on anyone at the moment.

[Palodios]

Johan Santana has been a had an ERA around 2.8-3.33 for his entire career. He had an injury issue at the end of this year at which point his stats fell off a cliff, but he's probably the best pitcher available if he's recovered from his should issue.

[BornToRun]

Stay the fuck away from Lee. The guy is getting older and owed a shit ton of money. Guys like him are exactly who we need to stay away from if we want to avoid getting caught in the same shitstorm that we just saw in 2012.

[User Name?]

I'm thinking an Ellsbury for Vargas type deal might be better

Aren't you always saying that you're scared of soft-tossing lefties at Fenway? With an average fastball velocity of 88 MPH for his career, Jason Vargas is the textbook definition of a soft-tossing lefty.

[BornToRun]

I would throw myself off a bridge if we gave up Ellsbury for Jason Vargas. That's nauseating just thinking about it.

[mvp 78]

Stay the fuck away from Lee. The guy is getting older and owed a shit ton of money. Guys like him are exactly who we need to stay away from if we want to avoid getting caught in the same shitstorm that we just saw in 2012.

That settles it, I'm all for Lee!

BTR is the jinx/reverse jinx for Sox SP's.

[Station 13]

I would throw myself off a bridge if we gave up Ellsbury for Jason Vargas. That's nauseating just thinking about it.

Just as Ellsbury for Masterson with throwing in extra.

[SoxSport]

The Phillies GM was on MLB TV tonite, and he said the big 3 Phillies starters are going nowhere--they are the team's core. Besides, their owners won't deal with Boras because of JD Drew.

If they move Ells, it's more likely in mid season when they can get more value for him. But maybe also now. Seattle is a good landing spot--for Vargas. Forget Felix. Maybe Lincecum, though his mechanics says no. Maybe Bumgarner. Has to be a team that will deal with Boras. Seattle, yes. Maybe Texas.

[BornToRun]

That settles it, I'm all for Lee!

BTR is the jinx/reverse jinx for Sox SP's.

Is this because of:

A. My 2011 support for Lackey?
B. My 2012 support for Beckett?

Or C. A combination of the two?

[mvp 78]

Is this because of:

A. My 2011 support for Lackey?
B. My 2012 support for Beckett?

Or C. A combination of the two?

C

[mvp 78]

Alex Speir (sp?) just put up an article on weei stating a trade of Ells is not inevitable.

[BornToRun]

C

Understood.

Not two of my finer moments.

[TylerD]

He's owed way too much money. Philly is gonna have to eat a good size chunk before I like it. Lee is on the way out of his prime. The Red Sox should not stick themselves with paying for what Lee has done.

I definitely think it's a gamble. I see where your coming from, but it's so hard to ignore what he could do for this team. Money will always be an issue, but I have wanted a guy like Cliff Lee on this team for a while. (If he still plays like we know he can). If we pay a lot and get Lackey sort of thing, then it's different. That's the gamble you take unfortunately when you get superstars starting to pass their prime a bit.

[SCM33]

Ellsbury, Salty, Kalish and Iglesias for either Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay. Ask them for Jake Diekman as well......asking for both pitchers may force us to add a pitching prospect along the lines of Brandon Workman.

Priority 1, Halladay. That dude is a beast.

Why PHI would consider the deal:
1. Ellsbury fills a hole. He would replace Victorino in CF.
2. Salty fills a hole. PHI needs a catcher since theirs is serving a PED suspenstion.
3. Kalish can get some time in the OF, especially splitting time with Juan Pierre.
4. Iglesias will learn the ropes from Rollins. Rollins eventually should shift to 3B.
5. They get out of a Halladays contract.

We have a replacement now for Ellsbury. We also have one for Salty. A signing of Swisher would eliminate a need for Kalish. Iglesias is expendable because we have players with higher ceilings in the wings. Sign Alex Gonzalez short term. Sign J. Bay to a minor league deal. Ross is also still on the table.

LF Ross/Gomes/Bay
CF: Victorino
RF: Nick Swisher
3b: WMB
SS: Alex Gonzalez
2B: Dustin Pedroia
1B: Mike Napoli
DH: David Ortiz
C: David Ross/ Ryan Lavarnway

SP: Roy Halladay
SP: Jon Lester
SP: Clay Buccholz
SP: Franklin Morales
SP: Jon Lackey
Other possibles: Kyle Lohse

CP: Andrew Bailey
BP: Daniel Bard
BP: Jake Diekman
BP: Junichi Tazawa
BP: Alfredo Aceves
BP: Brian Wilson
BP: Andrew Miller

Thats 24 of the 25 players. Pedro Ciriaco would round out the team as the utility INF/Super sub.

That team is damn good, and very balanced. The lineup looks long. A lot of quality bats, the only hole would be at SS. Halladay anchors the staff, it would be nice to see what Lester and Buccholz could learn from him.

Also, you have to imigaine that Farrell with have some influence with this group.

The cancer is gone, its time to start over......and this new blood could be what we need to make a run.

[iortiz]

Liked that trade and lineup SCM33. I would sign Lohse too as you suggest and send back Morales to BP.

[jung]

I don't know what Spier's point is. "Ells trade is not inevitable". Maybe so but it would sure seem highly likely at this point. Especially since the trade pieces the Sox have taken individually won't get the Sox very far. Ells is on his last year...Salty is....well....Salty though he is catcher...sort of and Felix is still in development. Kalish....maybe we should rename him "the shoulder". Hopefully he is finally ready to play.

But you wrap two of them up in a bundle with Ells, and ya' got somethin'.

[BSN07]

Aren't you always saying that you're scared of soft-tossing lefties at Fenway? With an average fastball velocity of 88 MPH for his career, Jason Vargas is the textbook definition of a soft-tossing lefty.

Busted. I was going off pure memory.I really thought he was a low 90's guy at least. Thank you for the correction. Vargas doesn't seem so attractive now.

[BornToRun]

Busted. I was going off pure memory.I really thought he was a low 90's guy at least. Thank you for the correction. Vargas doesn't seem so attractive now.

Didn't he also give up a shit ton of bombs playing in safeco?

[Orange Juiced]

Garza. Johann. Price. Cahill. Vargas. Floyd. There are pitchers out there who are semi-available. Go get 'em.

Atlanta is looking for an OF and is willing to deal Teheran or Delgado. Now they're both prospects, not established pitchers, but they are both big-time prospects.

What I might explore is a deal of Ellsbury for Brandon Beachy. Just 26 years old, but coming off TJ surgery (which usually results in guys throwing harder). Not sure he'll even be ready for the start of the season....probably not. But here are his career numbers:

3.07 era, 1.14 whip, 9.5 k/9, 127 era+

Dude can *pitch*. And he makes essentially nothing (less than $500k) and is under team control til 2017.

Trade Salty + a C-level prospect for Gavin Floyd. Trade Ellsbury for Beachy. Sign Lohse to a 2 or 3 year deal. Sign Josh Hamilton to a 3/75 deal.

Lineup:
CF Victorino
2b Pedroia
RF Hamilton
1b Napoli
DH Ortiz
3b Middlebrooks
LF Gomes/Kalish
C Lavarnway
SS Iglesias

Rotation: Lester, Buchholz, Floyd, Beachy, Lohse

With Lackey, Doubront, and Morales there as depth.

That team right there could win the World Series.

[BSN07]

Atlanta is looking for an OF and is willing to deal Teheran or Delgado. Now they're both prospects, not established pitchers, but they are both big-time prospects.

What I might explore is a deal of Ellsbury for Brandon Beachy. Just 26 years old, but coming off TJ surgery (which usually results in guys throwing harder). Not sure he'll even be ready for the start of the season....probably not. But here are his career numbers:

3.07 era, 1.14 whip, 9.5 k/9, 127 era+

Dude can *pitch*. And he makes essentially nothing (less than $500k) and is under team control til 2017.

Trade Salty + a C-level prospect for Gavin Floyd. Trade Ellsbury for Beachy. Sign Lohse to a 2 or 3 year deal. Sign Josh Hamilton to a 3/75 deal.

Lineup:
CF Victorino
2b Pedroia
RF Hamilton
1b Napoli
DH Ortiz
3b Middlebrooks
LF Gomes/Kalish
C Lavarnway
SS Iglesias

Rotation: Lester, Buchholz, Floyd, Beachy, Lohse

With Lackey, Doubront, and Morales there as depth.

That team right there could win the World Series.

Not sure Ellsbury is what Atlanta is looking for. But getting one of those young prospects would not be bad return.

[dupree]

Not sure Ellsbury is what Atlanta is looking for. But getting one of those young prospects would not be bad return.

This would not be a bad move but with BJ Upton there now i dont think they need a CF
Id like to see the Sox working something out with the DBacks on a trade for Justin Upton
or possibly a trade for Trevor Bauer.. or a combination with both
id throw iggy in there because the DBacks are wanting a shortstop

[a700hitter]

Vargas for Ellsbury would be highway robbery by the Mariners. They would jump at that deal.

[BSN07]

Vargas for Ellsbury would be highway robbery by the Mariners. They would jump at that deal.

Ya I really f'd that one , I'm not sure who I am remembering being a good LHP from Seattle, I have since come to my senses so no worries :D

[Orange Juiced]

This would not be a bad move but with BJ Upton there now i dont think they need a CF
Id like to see the Sox working something out with the DBacks on a trade for Justin Upton
or possibly a trade for Trevor Bauer.. or a combination with both
id throw iggy in there because the DBacks are wanting a shortstop

Even after acquiring BJ Upton, the Braves have been looking for another OF. They were trying to trade for Justin Upton, but the D-Backs wanted Atlanta's great young SS, Simmons, who the Braves don't want to part with. They have pitching to give, and want an OF. We have an OF to give, and need pitching.

Seems like a match made in heaven, to me.

[BSN07]

Let's consider the teams that could theoretically need a CF and what they have to offer,

Im skipping the AL East for obvious reasons,

Cleveland- Masterson
KC(?)- Not a really good match
Seattle- They have a few young guys, but nothing proven
Texas- Holland seems movable
Philly- Lee makes sense, but Philly is saying absolutely no to trades of the SP core. Not sure they have anyone else
NYM- Dickey(no), Niese(no) Santana(maybe, have to look at the contract)
Marlins- Nolasco and Morrison(could be the LH bat Cherries is looking for?) going to take more then Ells
Cincy- Leake maybe Bailey if it doesn't look like an extension is likely
Cubs- Garza
Houston- No idea

Feel free to add anyone I missed.

[iortiz]

Let's consider the teams that could theoretically need a CF and what they have to offer,

Im skipping the AL East for obvious reasons,

Cleveland- Masterson
KC(?)- Not a really good match
Seattle- They have a few young guys, but nothing proven
Texas- Holland seems movable
Philly- Lee makes sense, but Philly is saying absolutely no to trades of the SP core. Not sure they have anyone else
NYM- Dickey(no), Niese(no) Santana(maybe, have to look at the contract)
Marlins- Nolasco and Morrison(could be the LH bat Cherries is looking for?) going to take more then Ells
Cincy- Leake maybe Bailey if it doesn't look like an extension is likely
Cubs- Garza
Houston- No idea

Feel free to add anyone I missed.

AS SCM33 said, set a package around Ells and land the Doc.

[BSN07]

AS SCM33 said, set a package around Ells and land the Doc.

Like I said, Philly is saying absolutely no to trading from their rotation. It's the core they are counting on.

[rjortiz]

I did read the Indians are talking to Kevin Youk. So it would at least be ammusingly ironic if Ells ended up sharing a locker room with Youk, lol.

Why is that ironic?

[NativeBostonian]

I was thinking about trading him for Shields or Price. But, I don't really want to send a guy like Jacoby Ellsbury to a team that is in our division. It's very risky. Especially since the two Rays' pitchers never played for a big market team and you don't know if they could handle it.

[dupree]

The big market wouldnt be that much of an issue for shields or price
They both are big game pitchers i think they will do well in a big market

As far as Ellsbury in a package for 1 of those guys id see sheilds a more likely than price
Price would take 2 if not all the Killer Bees to Land Him

Dont get me wrong i would love to see Price as our #1
But trading Price in the divison especially to the Red Sox is highly unlikely
Thats what dreams are made of tho

Price Lester Bucholtz Floyd & Lackey
Two top of the line pitchers to battle the Yankees on that little league right field wall
I think Price & Lester as 1 - 2 makes a lot of sense having to left handers head up the staff

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ellsbury isn't going to get a huge haul unless they add other pieces.

The type of trade the Sox would be looking at would be a trade for Lincecum. Couple guys coming off questionable seasons, left with 1 year until FA.

[wyo-sox]

Why is that ironic?

I just always got the feeling they did not like each other, I remember hearing Youk was one of the reasons Ells did not want to stay in Boston long term. I remember Youk calling out Ells one year for not being with the team when he was out with an injury. Given that if the ever fluid circumstances landed them as team mates in Clevland I would find that ironic.

[wyo-sox]

Ellsbury isn't going to get a huge haul unless they add other pieces.

The type of trade the Sox would be looking at would be a trade for Lincecum. Couple guys coming off questionable seasons, left with 1 year until FA.

I agree, I feel like we really over estimate his value. Take into account he is only under contract for a season, he has an agent that will do everything possible to do the over priced free agent drama next year, he has a proven history of injuries, and when you set aside his one great season his numbers arent that amazing.

[dupree]

Lincucem in Boston would be awesome!!!
Im not sure what his salary is... But that would be a nice trade
The Giants coming off a World Series are prolly not gonna trade any SP pitching
Especially since Tim came out of the bullpen & showed how deciated he was to the team

The Giants do have a surplus of SP & if we could get him to would make that trade
I know he had a down year in 2012 & now is the time to strike while the iron is hot
He would prolly be the best option out there
Pitchers like Lincucem change the game & the face of the rotation
& i dont see pitchers like Price or King Felix coming to Boston via trade
we have too many good prospects to risk years for 1 pitcher

Does Lincecum have a No Trade? Because if he does he'll stay in SF no doubt

[BSN07]

I was thinking about trading him for Shields or Price. But, I don't really want to send a guy like Jacoby Ellsbury to a team that is in our division. It's very risky. Especially since the two Rays' pitchers never played for a big market team and you don't know if they could handle it.
TB is not trading anyone to the Sox.

Ellsbury isn't going to get a huge haul unless they add other pieces.

The type of trade the Sox would be looking at would be a trade for Lincecum. Couple guys coming off questionable seasons, left with 1 year until FA.

Lincecum made sense before SF re-signed Pagan. Now It's not a fit.

I think Bourn or Hamilton is going to have to come off the board before things pick up on Ellsbury.

btw when do winter meetings end? general question to anyone who knows

[jacksonianmarch]

I just don't see why the sox would be greasing the skids for Ellsbury right now unless someone is willing to overpay significantly. Ells suffered an injury that obviously sapped him of his power. Without any power, Ells is valuable, but certainly won't bring back a huge haul. If they deal him now, they are going to get 50 cents on the dollar. If he comes back to Boston, hits to his 2011 level and the sox are out of it, they can get a lot more in return for that production

[BSN07]

I just don't see why the sox would be greasing the skids for Ellsbury right now unless someone is willing to overpay significantly. Ells suffered an injury that obviously sapped him of his power. Without any power, Ells is valuable, but certainly won't bring back a huge haul. If they deal him now, they are going to get 50 cents on the dollar. If he comes back to Boston, hits to his 2011 level and the sox are out of it, they can get a lot more in return for that production

Let's see who they get before we decide if the sold low(if he's even moved at all).

[jacksonianmarch]

I hear ya there BSN, but I doubt anyone would be offering 2011 Ellsbury type return for the 2012 version. It's puzzling unless someone is willing to drastically overpay

[BSN07]

I hear ya there BSN, but I doubt anyone would be offering 2011 Ellsbury type return for the 2012 version. It's puzzling unless someone is willing to drastically overpay

I think it has to be a even or an overpay for them to move him now. They could easily hold on to him and look to move him later in the season for a SP as well.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it has to be a even to overpay for them to move him now. They could easily hold on to him and look to move him later in the season for a SP as well.

Exactly, and if the ASB is coming up and Ells is on pace for another 30-30 season with a .300+ average, then the sox will get a massive haul

[BSN07]

Exactly, and if the ASB is coming up and Ells is on pace for another 30-30 season with a .300+ average, then the sox will get a massive haul

I wouldn't say massive, but a top prospect like NYM got for Beltran or part of a deal for a SP

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldn't say massive, but a top prospect like NYM got for Beltran or part of a deal for a SP

If Ells performs to his level, a guy like Wheeler would be a part of a package rather than the whole deal.

[BSN07]

If Ells performs to his level, a guy like Wheeler would be a part of a package rather than the whole deal.

Could be. We will see.

[jung]

I think the Sox would get decent value for Ells if traded now. In the first place he will likely be part of a package and while it might be nice to wait to just before the ASB, Ells tends to run into things that are studier than he is, other players, walls, what have you. If he gets dinged before that ASB next year, the Sox are going to get nothing for Ells.

If they are going to get ripped off for Ells, then they don't make the trade. However if it comes down to nits and nats which is frankly more likely than half value, I would deal Ells now rather than risk seeing him hit the DL and end up getting nothing for him. While his injuries may look like flukes who cares...he has to many fluke injuries, tends to end up with big bone or big joint injuries like shoulder and takes a long time to come back from them. Ells may at the end of the day be to the Sox what Julian Edelman is to the Pats, a wonderful player that just cannot stay on the field enough.

I do agree though and would no doubt take the risk of injury and hold on to Ells if I could not strike a deal that was at least fair market value for him.

[iortiz]

Seems like Ells ain't going anywhere after reading what Ben said in that regard.

[Bellhorn04]

Seems like Ells ain't going anywhere after reading what Ben said in that regard.

I dunno, he didn't rule it out.

[jung]

Well, "we expect Ells to have a huge season" is exactly what you would say if you were trying to move him anyway.

[RedSoxNC84]

Well, "we expect Ells to have a huge season" is exactly what you would say if you were trying to move him anyway.

That comment certainly did seem suspicious. I still think they move him.

[rjortiz]

Posturing.

[SoxSport]

I suspect they have a fair idea of how to unload Ellsbury on short notice if they have to.

[NativeBostonian]

Apparently the Red Sox are still in talks with Josh Hamilton. That leads me to believe that there's something cooking. Pitching market isn't all that great this year. so, most likely the only way they are going to get the number one starter they desperately need is through a trade. Of course, they would need to package Ellsbury with a good player from their farm system. Maybe Ryan Lavarnway type of player.

[Palodios]

I would still be interested in a Ellsbury for Holland trade. What ever happened to that one?

[Spitball]

I would still be interested in a Ellsbury for Holland trade. What ever happened to that one?

Holland is under control through 2017. There is no way the Rangers trade him for a Boras client under control through next year.

[BSN07]

Holland is under control through 2017. There is no way the Rangers trade him for a Boras client under control through next year.

Yup whether we like it or not, the fact Ells is a Boras client is a knock on his value(not saying if he was with someone else the Sox could then get Holland, just a general statement).

[dupree]

Scott Boras being his agent is a big knock on teams believing they will be able to resign him.
I know that the BC & Farrell have both said they Ells would not be traded but a trade with Cincy prolly makes a lot of sense. Cincy needs a lead-off hitter & a center fielder. Th ey were a contender last year & they were a contender last year so one addition might just what they feel would get them over the hump

Ellsbury for Homer Bailey would be nice

Lester Bucholz Floyd Bailey Lackey/Doubrant

But if Ells stays which it is looking like more & more & Salty stays as well, the red sox will go after the comeback pitchers who had injuries or down years
Brandon McCarthy or Jurrjens might be signing on 1 year deals
Another name I think will be considered in Boston will be Edwin Jackson i know hes a Scott Boras client as well but on a 3/39 which seems to be the trend wouldnt surprise me

[Lucienbel]

I really wouldn't mind the Sox giving McCarthy a shot, he'd been a pretty solid pitcher, at least since he landed in Oakland. Granted, it seems the Coliseum probably did him favors that Fenway won't just by looking at his numbers at a glance. A good look at him in Spring Training wouldn't be a terrible thing. Same thing with Jurrjens really. This isn't to say that they don't need to add another arm through free agency or a trade, but I'd have no problem with McCarthy and Jurrjens getting Spring Training invites and either sent to AAA or released if they didn't work out.

[dupree]

Agreed.

McCarthy was slotted as the #2 in Oakland last season, Fenway is going to be a change for any pitcher comin in the 1st full season... his freak head injury was something that couldnt be controlled it could happen to any pitcher. Jurrgens as young as he is could be a high upside guy & i think if the sox dont someone else is going to & prolly get a nice return

Jackson - i have a crazy feeling he'll be a red sox another overpay
Loshe- should just stay with the Cardinals
Dempster- Dear God please no no no no
R.A. Dickey - Our prospects are worth more than him anyday

In the perfect world we would have the trade chips on the major league roster & the prospects to go out & make a trade for a guy like Rick Porcello to be our #3
Lester Bucholz Porcello #4 starter(Homer Bailey/Jurrgens/McCarty/Floyd/Jackson) Lackey/ Doubrant. Lackey is only gonna pitch around 120-140 innings at best this year & letting Doubrant picking up the rest of the slack my work out very nicely

[SoxSport]

The team to watch for Ells is Cincinnati. Homer Bailey is trade bait.

[rjortiz]

Bailey for Ellsbury makes a lot of sense, but I don't see Cincy giving him up for just Ellsbury. Maybe him and Doubrount gets it done.

[example1]

Bailey for Ellsbury makes a lot of sense, but I don't see Cincy giving him up for just Ellsbury. Maybe him and Doubrount gets it done.

Ouch! I don't like that deal much. Move one piece of the rotation for another. Bailey only has one year left after this one, right? His 2nd arb eligible going into 2013 I think. Is he worth a year of Ellsbury and Doubront, who isn't even at arb yet?

I think calls to move Doubront are really premature. Doubront just finished his age 24 season and has the following career line:

196 IP, 4.86 ERA, 196 K, 1.477 WHIP, 90 ERA+, 2.20 K/BB

Here's Bailey's line through roughly the same number of innings (after his age 23 season)

195 IP, 5.45 ERA, 132 K, 1.610 WHIP, 80 ERA+, 1.36 K/BB

Doubront is a better version of Bailey at the same point in their MLB careers.

Meanwhile, Bailey has had one good (not great) season. And he's not controlled for long.

Maybe Ells plus a decent prospect IF there's reason to think they can extend Bailey for a reasonable price. Otherwise, they should aim higher.

[Station 13]

Bailey for Ellsbury makes a lot of sense, but I don't see Cincy giving him up for just Ellsbury. Maybe him and Doubrount gets it done.

I will punch cute kittens if that happen.

[dupree]

I will punch cute kittens if that happen.

Simply Awesome!

[Spudboy]

I think the Sox hold onto Ellsbury at least until the deadline. His value is low ( for him ) now. They will do something stupid like grab a bargain basement guy and overpay first. I don't think any of the guys mentioned are worth giving up Ellsbury AND a prospect for at this point. Although I have always liked Jurgens and Porcello.

[BSN07]

I think the Sox hold onto Ellsbury at least until the deadline. His value is low ( for him ) now. They will do something stupid like grab a bargain basement guy and overpay first. I don't think any of the guys mentioned are worth giving up Ellsbury AND a prospect for at this point. Although I have always liked Jurgens and Porcello.

Ya as long as they don't sign another OF he won't be going anywhere for now.

I still think a Salty for SP deal happens. Porcello be nice, but I don't know what Detroit is looking for. I'm hoping they get Jurrjens and stash him in AAA.

The big name SP might just not be out there right now. They're probably more likely to add a mid to lower rotation guy for now and look later n the season to see who is now available.

[jung]

Nah we're all set. The guys we have just need to pitch better.:blink:

[Palodios]

Ya as long as they don't sign another OF he won't be going anywhere for now.

I still think a Salty for SP deal happens. Porcello be nice, but I don't know what Detroit is looking for. I'm hoping they get Jurrjens and stash him in AAA.

The big name SP might just not be out there right now. They're probably more likely to add a mid to lower rotation guy for now and look later n the season to see who is now available.

The big name SP are never out there. You have to overpay in prospects or in money. No easy decision there, but the Red Sox should have gone the money route.

13 million for Haren? 15 million for Mccarthy? 24 million for Guthrie? I get that those destinations may be better fit for the players, but you need to overpay your pitchers, not your hitters, so maybe offering a couple more million than the next guy should have been the plan there.

[SoxSport]

Wilbur gives a different perspective on these short term deals:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2012/12/is_red_sox_rebu.html

He says Henry might be setting the team up for a sale in the near future.
He also says the selloff to the Dodgers was done by upper management, not Cherington, as a number of sources have reported.

[a700hitter]

:thumbsup:
Wilbur gives a different perspective on these short term deals:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2012/12/is_red_sox_rebu.html

He says Henry might be setting the team up for a sale in the near future.
He also says the selloff to the Dodgers was done by upper management, not Cherington, as a number of sources have reported.
That deal had upper managements fingerprints all over it. They probably let Cherington negotiate the prospects coming back. IMO, JH and LL didn't really care if they got anything back. They needed to get enough back that the deal would be approved by Selig. None of the guys that the Dodgers gave up had any career path to the majors for the Dodgers except for the one pitcher coming of TJ (and he probably projects as a bullpen guy)?

[Bellhorn04]

Wilbur gives a different perspective on these short term deals:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2012/12/is_red_sox_rebu.html

He says Henry might be setting the team up for a sale in the near future.
He also says the selloff to the Dodgers was done by upper management, not Cherington, as a number of sources have reported.

Wilbur knows nothing more about any of this than we do. Guessy guessy.

It's clear we'll be hearing speculation about Henry selling the team from now until it actually happens.

FWIW there's growing speculation about the Steinbrenner boys wanting to sell too.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Bellhorn04]

There are perfectly good reasons why the Red Sox would be looking for short term deals other than the 'prepping to sell' theory. For one thing they just got burned on a bunch of longer term deals. Second they've got prospects a year or two away. Guys like Wilbur love the conspiracy stuff.

[Behindenemylines]

Ellsbury is moved only if: 1) they can get a top of the rotation starter or 2) they bring in Hamilton. I don't see either happening and I believe Ellsbury starts the season in Boston.

[BSN07]

I don't care f Henry sells the team or not. Just as long as Selig let's the team go to an owner who's going to spend money. And for how much some group is gonna have to pay for the Red Sox, they are going to want to spend money on the on field product.

But Bell's views on the current short term deals seems more reasonable. Maybe ts a combo of both. Maybe it's a baseball wide thing and those 7 year deals are going to only go to guys who sign extensions with their current clubs(Tulo, Kemp, Longoria) and the occasional superstar that makes it to FA. They might stop handing those deals out every year just because player X happens to be the best available that season.

[SoxSport]

Wilbur knows nothing more about any of this than we do. Guessy guessy.

It's clear we'll be hearing speculation about Henry selling the team from now until it actually happens.

FWIW there's growing speculation about the Steinbrenner boys wanting to sell too.

I'll believe it when I see it.

The guy in Fox business who originated the rumor stands by it. He says Henry has offered the team up for sale. His source might be one of those Henry contacted.

[Bellhorn04]

The guy in Fox business who originated the rumor stands by it. He says Henry has offered the team up for sale. His source might be one of those Henry contacted.

There was a later rumor that Henry was looking to sell part of his interest to another minority shareholder but would remain principal shareholder. That makes a bit more sense to me and may have been the source of the Fox story.

If Henry was actively trying to sell the team the story would have spilled out by now...you can't hide something like that from the Boston media.

[SoxSport]

There was a later rumor that Henry was looking to sell part of his interest to another minority shareholder but would remain principal shareholder. That makes a bit more sense to me and may have been the source of the Fox story.

If Henry was actively trying to sell the team the story would have spilled out by now...you can't hide something like that from the Boston media.

Safe to say selling the team is just another possibility, based on the rumors out there, and based on their current financial state. Their moves so far haven't contradicted that possibility.

In the late 1990s, when Harrington was putting the team up for sale, Duquette was suddenly given the green light to sign Manny to a long term deal--for the biggest bucks at the time. The media explanation at the time was the Sox were accumulating assets to jack up the selling price. Harrington suddenly got very generous with FAs after being stingy for awhile. I remember Fenway Park was a pigpen at the time--dirty seats, etc.

Henry has behaved the opposite of Harrington up to this point. Of course, the team was way overstretched on spending, so he had to bail out with the Dodger deal. They had no financial room to plug holes. Now, they are nearer to middle ground. The team is more financially sound, and in a better state for Henry either to keep the team or sell. He could go either way.

[Spudboy]

Any successful ( and most unsuccessful businesses ) are up for sale. The entire idea is to yield a profit from your investment. Anyone would be a fool to look the other way when there is interest in your business and someone is willing to hand over hundreds of millions of dollars. Rich guys are very good at this process. That is one of the reasons they are rich.

[DeadHorseSociety]

There are perfectly good reasons why the Red Sox would be looking for short term deals other than the 'prepping to sell' theory. For one thing they just got burned on a bunch of longer term deals. Second they've got prospects a year or two away. Guys like Wilbur love the conspiracy stuff.



Which long term contracts besides Greinke's? Plus, they don't have a flood of blue chip prospects in AA and AAA that will infuse this team with star talent in the coming years. Outside of Xander, Barnes and maybe Webster that is.

[DocHolliday]

Which long term contracts besides Greinke's? Plus, they don't have a flood of blue chip prospects in AA and AAA that will infuse this team with star talent in the coming years. Outside of Xander, Barnes and maybe Webster that is.

Bradley not considered star talent?

[rjortiz]

Bradley not considered star talent?

No. He's not a star. Boegaerts is the only one in our system that you could say has that kind of potential.

[DocHolliday]

No. He's not a star. Boegaerts is the only one in our system that you could say has that kind of potential.

Its certainly arbitrary to debate what "star" power is. But if you're going to throw names like Bogaerts, Barnes, and Webster out there as potential "stars", Bradley's name certainly has to be included at this point.

At this point, I'd definitely put Bradley's potential higher than Webster. Certainly not the same potential as Bogaerts, but nonetheless, its pretty much unanimous among the team and independent minor league talent evaluators that Bradley has a high ceiling.

[example1]

So maybe he's the perfect candidate to make available in a trade for a SP. what is his absolute peak comp? An elite multi year gold glove CF with decent power and okay speed? High OBP with low SLG, maybe a few years over .900 OPS but more likely in the .800s. Sound reasonable? A tori hunter type? With better OBP and worse power? I'm just guessing.

He's coming off an electric campaign in milb and his value could easily diminish with injury or just meeting better competition. Great talent but whereas Barnes might be untouchable, Bradley might be reluctantly available.

[BSN07]

So maybe he's the perfect candidate to make available in a trade for a SP. what is his absolute peak comp? An elite multi year gold glove CF with decent power and okay speed? High OBP with low SLG, maybe a few years over .900 OPS but more likely in the .800s. Sound reasonable? A tori hunter type? With better OBP and worse power? I'm just guessing.

He's coming off an electric campaign in milb and his value could easily diminish with injury or just meeting better competition. Great talent but whereas Barnes might be untouchable, Bradley might be reluctantly available.

With Victorino on the team for 3 years it's more conceivable that they could move Bradley. it didn't make alot of sense with Ellsbury getting ready to walk and Bradley being 1-2 years before he's most likely truly ready. Bogaerts and Barnes are the only untouchables in my book right now. And I could be convinced on Barnes in a deal for an young ace type. But I'd really like to see him come up on the Sox. Bogaerts is an absolute no for me unless it's Stanton, Trout, Harper coming back. And that ain't happening. I have high hopes for him. I think he might be the next Hanley but possibly better. I think he's more athletic and has a way better attitude.

[example1]

With Victorino on the team for 3 years it's more conceivable that they could move Bradley. it didn't make alot of sense with Ellsbury getting ready to walk and Bradley being 1-2 years before he's most likely truly ready. Bogaerts and Barnes are the only untouchables in my book right now. And I could be convinced on Barnes in a deal for an young ace type. But I'd really like to see him come up on the Sox. Bogaerts is an absolute no for me unless it's Stanton, Trout, Harper coming back. And that ain't happening. I have high hopes for him. I think he might be the next Hanley but possibly better. I think he's more athletic and has a way better attitude.

I don't think they can afford to move Barnes for anyone other than truly elite, no doubt pieces. That's probably what you are saying too. Even for a guy like Bauer it would be a stretch unless he was the main significant piece. Felix? Yeah, I'd do that.

I'm not interested in moving Bradley but realize it might be a good idea if the right offer comes along. A mediocre season in AA from him and his value drops considerably.

Honestly, I'm disappointed that the Rays got Myers (in an enormous player heist, too). The Sox are in a tough spot where they don't have the depth to be competitive if they deal Lester and can't afford the PR or financial implications of a full rebuild. Also, the other pitching they would need isn't really out there on the market. Signing Sanchez would make up part of the difference but not enough.

Our best hope is that Lester returns to form as the pitcher he was the five previous seasons. There is precedent for good pitchers experiencing a bump in the road like this. Cliff Lee comes to mind.

[BSN07]

I don't think they can afford to move Barnes for anyone other than truly elite, no doubt pieces. That's probably what you are saying too. Even for a guy like Bauer it would be a stretch unless he was the main significant piece. Felix? Yeah, I'd do that.

I'm not interested in moving Bradley but realize it might be a good idea if the right offer comes along. A mediocre season in AA from him and his value drops considerably.

Honestly, I'm disappointed that the Rays got Myers (in an enormous player heist, too). The Sox are in a tough spot where they don't have the depth to be competitive if they deal Lester and can't afford the PR or financial implications of a full rebuild. Also, the other pitching they would need isn't really out there on the market. Signing Sanchez would make up part of the difference but not enough.

Our best hope is that Lester returns to form as the pitcher he was the five previous seasons. There is precedent for good pitchers experiencing a bump in the road like this. Cliff Lee comes to mind.

Like I said in the other thread, part of me is glad they are trying to contend this season but part of me thinks having that package TB just got for Lester(if it was that kind of offer, I think Friedman took KC to school so maybe they couldn't have got as much) would have been better.

Barnes
De la Rosa
Webster
Workman
Odorizzi
Montgomery

+Myers

all on the cusp in 2014 would have been sweet.

[DeadHorseSociety]

Bradley not considered star talent?


Bradley's a slower Denard Span.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Bradley's a slower Denard Span.

Maybe 08-09 Span, when he had an OBP in the high .380's, low .390's.

Not a 2010-2012, when he had a combined .334 OBP.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No. He's not a star. Boegaerts is the only one in our system that you could say has that kind of potential.

De La Rosa anyone?

[BSN07]

De La Rosa anyone?

I think people are down on him because he hasn't proven being back fully from TJS. If he does people will come around. Guy has high 90's stuff.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think people are down on him because he hasn't proven being back fully from TJS. If he does people will come around. Guy has high 90's stuff.

High 90's in the 7th inning as a starting pitcher.

That's extremely, extremely rare.

[DocHolliday]

High 90's in the 7th inning as a starting pitcher.

That's extremely, extremely rare.

I like the promise, but I'm waiting to see more when he returns to health.

That being said, can't understand why some on this board are discrediting Bradley. He did about as much as anyone could've expected of him in his first year of pro ball, even making the adjustment at AA. And, any reputable source that follows the minor leagues projects him as an above average regular in the ML.

[BSN07]

I like the promise, but I'm waiting to see more when he returns to health.

That being said, can't understand why some on this board are discrediting Bradley. He did about as much as anyone could've expected of him in his first year of pro ball, even making the adjustment at AA. And, any reputable source that follows the minor leagues projects him as an above average regular in the ML.

Most aren't discrediting. Mostly just see his value is high and since he's young there's always the chance of regression, hurting his value. With Victorino signed it's easier to move him and see what develops over the next 3 seasons then it was when he was likely Ellsburys replacement come 2014. Don't look at more people being ok moving him as a sign of discredit. The willingness is the only thing that's changed as the circumstances have changed.

[rjortiz]

De La Rosa anyone?

I like him, but he's still working on his control and secondary pitches.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I like him, but he's still working on his control and secondary pitches.

Still, as a 22 year old he posted a 3.71 ERA in 10 starts. His average velocity (per Brooks) is 96.57. Thats freaking heat.

Given, it was a SSS, but in his 10 starts his xFIP was 3.55.

As Keith Law put it, if he can just have an average slider (fix his arm slot, which shouldn't be difficult), this kid has an ace ceiling.

[Station 13]

I actually watch Ruby start prior to his injury and I was pretty impressed with the arsenal. If he doesn't make it as a starter, he's a potential great BP arm.

[Behindenemylines]

It would be sweet if De LaRosa worked out and was a top of the rotation SP that threw heat. Add him to Barnes and possibly Webster and those are some good young arms. I wish they were all ready this year then we wouldn't have to over pay for a SP. If they all were ready you would think one of the three would have a solid spring and be the number 5.

[a700hitter]

It would be sweet if De LaRosa worked out and was a top of the rotation SP that threw heat. Add him to Barnes and possibly Webster and those are some good young arms. I wish they were all ready this year then we wouldn't have to over pay for a SP. If they all were ready you would think one of the three would have a solid spring and be the number 5.... And it would be great if we could pick up Joe Hardy on a 1 year contract with the Devil.;)

[Palodios]

Now seems like the perfect time for the Red Sox to re-open talks with the Rangers about Ellsbury. It seems like their lineup has been decimated-- Hamiltion, Young, Napoli are all gone. Word is, Justin Upton is no longer available. Choo definitely is no longer available. Swisher and Bourn are probably going to cost outrageous money. The cost for RA Dickey is going to be two elite prospects.

They need a big acquisition, and Ellsbury has the highest ceiling of any of the outfielders available.

[BSN07]

Now seems like the perfect time for the Red Sox to re-open talks with the Rangers about Ellsbury. It seems like their lineup has been decimated-- Hamiltion, Young, Napoli are all gone. Word is, Justin Upton is no longer available. Choo definitely is no longer available. Swisher and Bourn are probably going to cost outrageous money. The cost for RA Dickey is going to be two elite prospects.

They need a big acquisition, and Ellsbury has the highest ceiling of any of the outfielders available.

They don't need him, they have Martin on a ML deal waiting in AAA and he's supposed to be the in house replacement. I've read they might be in on Bourn too. They may have interest in Ells, but I don't think it will be enough to get anyone of note.

[User Name?]

I think they'll trade Andrus in a Justin Upton package and then sign Michael Bourn to lead off.

[BSN07]

I think they'll trade Andrus in a Justin Upton package and then sign Michael Bourn to lead off.

Ya I never got why they just didn't offer Andrus + for Upton. He's only got one year left and they have a promising player to replace him. It seems pretty simple right? Bourn looks to be a fit as well.

[SoxSport]

Ells will be traded. It's a question of when. Looks like they will shoot for max value, which means by mid season next year.

[BSN07]

Atlanta is rumored to be looking to trade for Fowler. Means they still might be n the market for a CF and move Upron to LF. Both Ells and Fowler are on the verge of free agency. Fowler would probably be easier to re-sign, but if Atlanta is dangling Delgado or Teheran the Sox should look into it.

[rjortiz]

Ells will be traded. It's a question of when. Looks like they will shoot for max value, which means by mid season next year.

His greatest value is now, because he'll net a draft pick for the team that trades for him.

[NZSox]

Is it unrealistic to think we might land an ace with Ells + Salty + Prospect?

[Plumpamania]

Probably.

[example1]

Is it unrealistic to think we might land an ace with Ells + Salty + Prospect?

It is unrealistic to think we might land an ace period.

Perhaps we should really agree to some common terms here. To me, "ace" is reserved for those #1 starters who stand out above the rest. You may see it differently. So, that means a pitcher who would make your team favorites regardless of who is on the mound for the other team, unless that team has an "ace" as well--in which case it is merely a wash.

[BSN07]

The only Ace we could get is a prospect with front line potential. Teheran has that.

[NZSox]

It is unrealistic to think we might land an ace period.

Perhaps we should really agree to some common terms here. To me, "ace" is reserved for those #1 starters who stand out above the rest. You may see it differently. So, that means a pitcher who would make your team favorites regardless of who is on the mound for the other team, unless that team has an "ace" as well--in which case it is merely a wash.

In this situation I use 'Ace' for someone who would come in and be our #1. So essentially, they need to be a better, more consistent pitcher than Lester who can handle the demands of the AL East.

I do get your definition though. I kind of like the idea of reserving the term for guys like Verlander, Halladay, King Felix etc.

[TutGadol]

Atlanta is rumored to be looking to trade for Fowler. Means they still might be n the market for a CF and move Upron to LF. Both Ells and Fowler are on the verge of free agency. Fowler would probably be easier to re-sign, but if Atlanta is dangling Delgado or Teheran the Sox should look into it.

If anything they'll move Fowler to LF, he's been horrendous at center and BJ is a pretty good fielder.

[Behindenemylines]

Ellsbury probably staying the season with the Sox. No team is going to give equal value for him since it is his walk year and Borus is his agent. Borus will take him to FA and look for big $$$ and length. The Sox will hopefully get a big year out of him at least. If they weren't going to resign him they probably should have moved him after his big 2011 season when they probably could have gotten some top prospects.

[redsoxfan3]

Ellsbury probably staying the season with the Sox. No team is going to give equal value for him since it is his walk year and Borus is his agent. Borus will take him to FA and look for big $$$ and length. The Sox will hopefully get a big year out of him at least. If they weren't going to resign him they probably should have moved him after his big 2011 season when they probably could have gotten some top prospects.

That is hard to do though. It is always hard to trade someone that had an MVP season with two years left on his contract. Looking back now, it is easy to say they should have done this and that. You are right in saying that he will probably hit the FA market, especially with Boras as his agent. I think a potential big season out of Jacoby is a lot better than anything we would get back in return for him. If he has a solid first half and we are not in contention, then maybe we should look to see what we could get out of him then. The only problem with that is other teams might require him to sign an extension. We would not get a lot out of him for a half year left on his contract.

[Palodios]

The only Ace we could get is a prospect with front line potential. Teheran has that.

Santana, Santana, Santana.

Didn't work that time either:lol:

[SoxSport]

Ells is harder to deal because Boras is his agent, and not all teams will deal with him. They'll find a taker by mid-season next year if Ells comes back close to form.

[BSN07]

Santana, Santana, Santana.

Didn't work that time either:lol:

Hmm ya I had forgotten about Santana. They have the money to eat that contract. I wouldn't be against it as long as the B's and De la Rosa aren't involved.

[a700hitter]

Hmm ya I had forgotten about Santana. They have the money to eat that contract. I wouldn't be against it as long as the B's and De la Rosa aren't involved.If they only want De Ls Rosa, stuff him in a Fed Ex box so he gets there before Christmas.

[a700hitter]

Hmm ya I had forgotten about Santana. They have the money to eat that contract. I wouldn't be against it as long as the B's and De la Rosa aren't involved.If they only want De Ls Rosa, stuff him in a Fed Ex box so he gets there before Christmas.

[jung]

I would be surprised if they would just take DeLaRosa especially since they are willing to eat salary on Santana. The Sox have the trade chips to do it I would think.

[BSN07]

No thanks. Not till they see what De La Rosa has. He's probably the 2nd best SP prospect the Sox has and given he is a LHP might have a higher ceiling then Barnes.

If the Sox ae taking on almost all the $ they probably would only have to give up a Workman/Webster for him. Sanatana has enough? I wouldn't want to to give up top tier guys.

[jung]

If the Sox took all or most of the salary that would be a different story. I doubt the Sox will be willing to take on all that salary for Santana.