Predicting the 2010 Standings

[riverside sluggers]

Not that far off from ST games starting up :thumbsup:

AL East
Yankees
Red Sox (Wild Card)
Rays
Orioles
Blue Jays

AL Central
Tigers
White Sox
Twins
Indians
Royals

AL West
Mariners
Angels
Rangers
Athletics

NL East
Phillies
Braves
Marlins
Nationals- not by much over Mets
Mets- Too many ifs, and a blah rotation behind Johan

NL Central
Cardinals
Brewers
Cubs
Reds
Pirates
Astros

NL West
Rockies
Dodgers (Wild Card)
Diamondbacks
Giants
Padres

[Youk Of The Nation]

Flip the Os and Jays, Tigers and Chisox, Nats and Mets, Brewers and Cubs, Pirates and Astros, and Dodgers and Rockies, and you've got mine.

[Dojji]

AL East

Blue Jays
Rays
Orioles
Red Sox
Yankees

AL Central

Indians
Royals
Twins
Tigers
White Sox

AL West

Mariners
Athletics
Angels
Rangers


NL East

Nationals
Marlins
Mets
Braves
Phillies

NL Central

Reds
Pirates
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs

NL West

Padres
Diamondbacks
Rockies
Giants
Dodgers

[Keeper]

AL East
Yankees
Red Sox (Wild Card)
Rays
Orioles
Blue Jays

AL Central
Twins
White Sox
Tigers
Indians
Royals

AL West
Angels
Mariners
Rangers
Athletics

NL East
Phillies
Braves (Wild Card)
Marlins
Nationals
Mets

NL Central
Cardinals
Cubs
Brewers
Reds
Astros
Pirates

NL West
Giants
Dodgers
Rockies
Diamondbacks
Padres

[Coco's Disciples]

This will probably change before April.

ALE
NYY
BOS (WC)
TB
BAL
TOR

ALC
MIN
CHW
DET
CLE
KC

ALW
LAA
SEA
TEX
OAK

NLE
PHI
FLA
ATL
NYM
WAS

NLC
STL
MIL
CHC
CIN
HOU
PIT

NLW
SFG
LAD (WC)
COL
ARZ
SD

[suns]

AL East

Blue Jays
Rays
Orioles
Red Sox
Yankees

AL Central

Indians
Royals
Twins
Tigers
White Sox

AL West

Mariners
Athletics
Angels
Rangers


NL East

Nationals
Marlins
Mets
Braves
Phillies

NL Central

Reds
Pirates
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs

NL West

Padres
Diamondbacks
Rockies
Giants
Dodgers

Really?

ALE
NYY
BOS (WC)
TB
BAL
TOR

ALC
MIN
CHW
DET
CLE
KC

ALW
LAA
TEX
SEA
OAK

NLE
PHI
NYM
WAS
FLA
ATL

NLC
STL
MIL
CHC
CIN
HOU
PIT

NLW
SFG
LAD (WC)
COL
ARZ
SD

[TheMino007]

AL East
Yankees
Red Sox (Wild Card)
Rays
Orioles
Blue Jays

AL Central
Tigers
Twins
White Sox
Royals

AL West
Mariners
Angels
Rangers
Athletics

NL East
Phillies
Braves
Mets
Marlins
Nationals

NL Central
Cardinals
Cubs
Brewers
Astros
Reds
Pirates

NL West
Dodgers
Giants (Wild Card)
Rockies
D'backs
Padres

[jacksonianmarch]

AL East
Yankees
Red Sox- wild card
Rays
Jays
Orioles

who cares about the rest

[msubulldogs21]

AL East

1. Yankees
2. Red Sox (WC)
3. Rays
4. Orioles
5. Blue Jays

AL Central

1. Twins
2. White Sox
3. Tigers
4. Royals
5. Indians

AL West

1. Angels
2. Rangers
3. Mariners
4. A's

NL East

1. Phillies
2. Marlins
3. Braves
4. Mets
5. Nationals

NL Central

1. Cardinals
2. Cubs
3. Brewers
4. Reds
5. Astros
6. Pirates

NL West

1. Rockies
2. Dodgers (WC)
3. Giants
4. D-backs
5. Padres

[Plumpamania]

AL East
Red Sox
Rays (Wild Card)
Yankees
Orioles
Blue Jays

AL Central
Twins
Royals
Tigers
Indians
White Sox

AL West
Mariners
Rangers
Angels
Athletics

NL East
Phillies
Braves
Marlins
Nationals
Mets

NL Central
Cardinals
Reds
Brewers
Cubs
Pirates
Astros

NL West
Rockies
Dodgers (Wild Card)
Diamondbacks
Giants
Padres


I don't like going cookie cutter. I see many injuries in my crystal ball for the Pinstripe Crusaders.

[Keeper]

How do you figure the Royals are going to finish 2nd in the AL Central? And how are the White Sox going to finish last when they easily have the best rotation in the division?

[Plumpamania]

B/c crazier things can happen....

PS I hate Kenny Williams.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2010/03/breaking-reyes-to-start-year-o.html

Both Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes will start the season the DL. Wow haha

[yankees228]

How do you figure the Royals are going to finish 2nd in the AL Central? And how are the White Sox going to finish last when they easily have the best rotation in the division?

Apparently for many of the same reasons that the Yankees are going to finish third.

[italstallianion]

Plus, if it does happen, then Plump will look like a genius for being the first and so far only one to predict it.

[Dojji]

How do you figure the Royals are going to finish 2nd in the AL Central? And how are the White Sox going to finish last when they easily have the best rotation in the division?

Probably for about the same reason I approached this thread in the way I did. Because until we get at least some idea of which players are going to play at their level, get hurt, underperform or break out, we really have no idea how this year is gonna go.

[J-Beck]

AL East
New York
Boston (WC)
Toronto
Tampa Bay
Baltimore

AL Central
Minnesota
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Kansas City

AL West
Los Angeles
Oakland
Texas
Seattle

NL East
Philadelphia
New York
Atlanta
Florida
Washington

NL Central
St. Louis
Chicago (WC)
Houston
Milwaukee
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh

NL West
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Colorado
Arizona
San Diego

[PWNdroia]

AL East
Yankees
Rays (wild card)
Red Sox
Orioles
Toronto

AL Central
White Sox
Twins
Tigers
Indians
Royals

AL West
Mariners
Angels
Rangers
A's

NL East
Phillies
Marlins (wild card)
Braves
Mets
Nationals

NL Central
Cubs
Cardinals
Reds
Brewers
Astros
Pirates

NL West
Rockies
Giants
Dodgers
Diamondbacks
Padres

[rhet]

AL East
Yankees
Red Sox
Toronto
Orioles
Rays

AL Central
White Sox
Tigers
Twins
Indians
Royals

AL West
Mariners
Rangers (Wild Card)
Angels
A's

NL East
Phillies
Braves
Marlins
Mets
Nationals

NL Central
Cardinals
Reds (Wild Card)
Brewers
Cubs
Astros
Pirates

NL West
Rockies
Giants
Dodgers
Diamondbacks
Padres

[yeszir]

My only prediction is that the Red Sox will place 1st in the AL East.

....someone had to do it. You guys were all picking the Yankees.

[BSN07]

AL East
Red Sox
Yankees(WC)
Rays
Orioles
Blue Jays

AL Central
Tigers
White Sox
Twins
Royals
Indians

AL West
Mariners
Angels
Rangers
Athletics

NL East
Phillies
Marlins(WC)
Braves
Nationals
Mets

NL Central
Cardinals
Brewers
Cubs
Reds
Astros
Pirates

NL West
Giants
Dodgers
Rockies
Diamonbacks
Padres

[PWNdroia]

My only prediction is that the Red Sox will place 1st in the AL East.

....someone had to do it. You guys were all picking the Yankees.

With the offense we have, we'd be lucky to get second place. The Sox will finish third in the AL East this year. Mark my word.

[rhet]

With the offense we have, we'd be lucky to get second place. The Sox will finish third in the AL East this year. Mark my word.

What about all the run prevention we acquired this offseason?

[Dipre]

With the offense we have, we'd be lucky to get second place. The Sox will finish third in the AL East this year. Mark my word.

Lol.

[VA Sox Fan]

With the offense we have, we'd be lucky to get second place. The Sox will finish third in the AL East this year. Mark my word.


:dunno::rolleyes:

[Dipre]

This is the guy who was touting Alex Gonzales' offense as awesome.......

[suns]

AL central
Indians
Royals
Twins
White sox
Tigers

AL central is the only division that really matters.

[VA Sox Fan]

AL central
Indians
Royals
Twins
White sox
Tigers

AL central is the only division that really matters to me.


Fixed it for ya suns....:rolleyes:

[Dipre]

AL central
Indians
Royals
Twins
White sox
Tigers

AL central is the only division that really matters.

If you want to be taken seriously, say stuff that makes sense:

1) The Indians ain't winning jack shit.

2) The AL Central is probably the most unimportant division in baseball. (Enter angry comment from Minnesota Twins or chicago White Sox fan here)

[jacksonianmarch]

The battle for who will get swept in the first round of the playoffs

[suns]

The battle for who will get swept in the first round of the playoffs

The indians has had recent success when they are in the playoffs.

[jacksonianmarch]

They made the playoffs once in recent memory and beat an all offense Yankee club in round one. That also was when CC was on your team. But he looks better in pinstripes. The Indians are rebuilding again. They won't be relevant for another 3-4 yrs

[Dipre]

Not to mention they've got the longest WS drought of any team not named the Chicago Cubs. And with this year's club, thei recent "Success" doesn't matter. If they make the playoffs by miracle, they'll be cannon fodder for a club from another division.

[callandor1000]

AL East

Boston
Baltimore
New York
Toronto
Tampa Bay

AL Central

Detroit
Minnesota
Kansas City
Chicago
Cleveland

AL West

Texas
Los Angeles (WC)
Oakland
Seattle

NL East
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Florida
New York
Washington

NL Central

Cincinnati
St. Louis (WC)
Chicago
Milwaukee
Houston
Pittsburgh

NL West
San Francisco
Colorado
San Diego
Arizona
Los Angeles

[PWNdroia]

This is the guy who was touting Alex Gonzales' offense as awesome.......

I never said that. I only said his offense was manageable. Better than Lugo's and Scutaro's.

I was also a guy who wanted to trade highly for Hanley Ramirez, another thing Theo failed to do and cost us 2010.

[BoSox21]

AL East
Boston
New York (WC)
Tampa Bay
Baltimore
Toronto

AL Central
Detroit
Chicago
Kansas City
Minnesota
Cleveland

AL West
Seattle
Los Angeles
Texas
Oakland

NL East
Philadelphia
Florida
Atlanta
New York
Washington

NL Central
St. Louis
Cincinnati
Chicago
Milwaukee
Houston
Pittsburgh

NL West
San Francisco
Los Angeles (WC)
Colorado
Arizona
San Diego

[Dipre]

I never said that. I only said his offense was manageable. Better than Lugo's and Scutaro's.

I was also a guy who wanted to trade highly for Hanley Ramirez, another thing Theo failed to do and cost us 2010.

So when we traded Hanley to the Marlins, they signed a contract with the Sox saying they had to trade him back with us if we wanted him again?

Because that's the only the Marlins trade Hanley imo.

And no, that's not what you said about Gonzales, and i can look it up if you want me to.

[PWNdroia]

So when we traded Hanley to the Marlins, they signed a contract with the Sox saying they had to trade him back with us if we wanted him again?

Because that's the only the Marlins trade Hanley imo.

And no, that's not what you said about Gonzales, and i can look it up if you want me to.

Gonzalez was a great hitter in a Red Sox uniform, and he helped offensively last year. I won't lie about that. He's not the greatest, but I never called him out as a "god" like you make it seem. Never have I done that, and you can't find that on this forum (prove me wrong if you'd like to). Gonzalez was great in a Red Sox uni, Lugo wasn't, and Scutaro will fail (that's a given). Which is why Gonzalez would have been a better option. At least I was proud of his offense last year (I agree his career numbers are bad though, as I've stated countless times).

And no one said we had to trade for Hanley, I just prefer it. Better than Scutaro.

[Dipre]

True, the stats don't lie, but seriously, can we move on?

All I've said is I like what Gonzo has done for this team. It doesn't mean I think he is the best. But to me, he's been great on this team so far. I don't know why that is so hard to accept.

Now can we back on topic?

Not "Good", "Great".

I don't like Scutaro. But the possibility of getting him was a reality, unlike Hanley or Tulo, which are pipe dreams.

And by the way, even though Gonzales will be better defensively, no way his offense measures up to what Scutaro's capable of doing. Scutaro's not an offensive "Threat" but at least he's not an auto-out.

[Eck20and8]

I'm feeling a Sox-Braves WS

[PWNdroia]

Not "Good", "Great".

I don't like Scutaro. But the possibility of getting him was a reality, unlike Hanley or Tulo, which are pipe dreams.

And by the way, even though Gonzales will be better defensively, no way his offense measures up to what Scutaro's capable of doing. Scutaro's not an offensive "Threat" but at least he's not an auto-out.

Yeah, what's wrong with saying that. Gonzo was great in a Boston uni, enough said. He did more than Lugo and Scutaro will do, and he's come at a time where Theo has failed to get us a good shortstop (one of his many failures). Obviously, if someone came and out-did Gonzo, I'd drop that line, but in the last few years, no one has done it.

Scutaro does have ok stats, but I just see him being a Julio Lugo at the plate all over again... I just have that feeling. I have no stats to support this, it's just a bold prediction that WILL prove true. Theo tried to not improve SS at all, he tried to stabilize it, and it will backfire.

[Dipre]

Yeah, what's wrong with saying that. Gonzo was great in a Boston uni, enough said. He did more than Lugo and Scutaro will do, and he's come at a time where Theo has failed to get us a good shortstop (one of his many failures). Obviously, if someone came and out-did Gonzo, I'd drop that line, but in the last few years, no one has done it.

Scutaro does have ok stats, but I just see him being a Julio Lugo at the plate all over again... I just have that feeling. I have no stats to support this, it's just a bold prediction that WILL prove true. Theo tried to not improve SS at all, he tried to stabilize it, and it will backfire.

On the left, your feelings.

On the right, Scutaro's career stats.

Easy choice.

[BoSox21]

Always fun when people back up opinions with a "hunch".

[Dipre]

Always fun when people back up opinions with a "hunch".

Well i have a "hunch" Albert Pujols will hit 40 HR. :lol:

[PWNdroia]

Well i have a "hunch" Albert Pujols will hit 40 HR. :lol:

Until we find out he's using performance enhancing drugs.

And say what you want, but Scutaro will fail offesnively. Defensively he'll be ok, but on offense, he'll be the second Lugo. Mark my word.

[BoSox21]

Until we find out he's using performance enhancing drugs.

And say what you want, but Scutaro will fail offesnively. Defensively he'll be ok, but on offense, he'll be the second Lugo. Mark my word.

Consider it marked.

[Dipre]

Until we find out he's using performance enhancing drugs.

And say what you want, but Scutaro will fail offesnively. Defensively he'll be ok, but on offense, he'll be the second Lugo. Mark my word.

More "hunches"? :dunno:

[Dojji]

Actually I agree about Scutaro. Not sold on that signing at all, I think he'll be overpaid for what he'll provide. However, our alternatives were not great and Hanley isn't walking through that door.

I think the franchise is rolling the dice on Iglesias at the moment. That glove is impressive, and he's not far away. I'm calling an Orlando Cabrera type ceiling there. Lowrie could also be a factor, but it's becoming clear that his health may not let him be a starter. If he can overcome that, bonus.

[Dipre]

Actually I agree about Scutaro. Not sold on that signing at all, I think he'll be overpaid for what he'll provide. However, our alternatives were not great and Hanley isn't walking through that door.

I think the franchise is rolling the dice on Iglesias at the moment. That glove is impressive, and he's not far away. I'm calling an Orlando Cabrera type ceiling there. Lowrie could also be a factor, but it's becoming clear that his health may not let him be a starter. If he can overcome that, bonus.

No one is expecting Scutaro to provide anything more than league-average offense. If with his track record you don't think he can do that, then i don't know what to tell you.

[BoSox21]

What is there to expect from Scutaro anyway? He's going to be the #9 hitter.

7-8 HRs, .340-.350 OBP and .700-.720 OPS is what I'm expecting.

[Dipre]

What is there to expect from Scutaro anyway? He's going to be the #9 hitter.

7-8 HRs, .340-.350 OBP and .700-.720 OPS is what I'm expecting.

AKA league-average production.

[BoSox21]

And I'd be thrilled with that out of the 9-hole. I couldn't care less what he's making cause it isn't my money. It's also a lot better than what Nick Green gave us.

[Dipre]

Boston SS 2009:

.653 OPS, .296 OBP.

Yes it would.

[Dojji]

What is there to expect from Scutaro anyway? He's going to be the #9 hitter.

7-8 HRs, .340-.350 OBP and .700-.720 OPS is what I'm expecting.

That would be his second best offensive season.

Honestly Scutaro isn't awful. I'd love to have him as a utility guy for half the money. He's an awesome utility man I'm just wishing he hadn't cost a pick and wasn't going to be our starter.

He won't be a liability in the field or at the plate though. That in itself counts for something. We really need to stabilize that position.

[riverside sluggers]

Boston shortstops committed 24 errors last season. Scutaro has never had more than 14 errors in a season (thats being super utility guy). This past season he committed 10 errors at short

[Dipre]

That would be his second best offensive season.

Honestly Scutaro isn't awful. I'd love to have him as a utility guy for half the money. He's an awesome utility man I'm just wishing he hadn't cost a pick and wasn't going to be our starter.

He won't be a liability in the field or at the plate though. That in itself counts for something. We really need to stabilize that position.

2005: .701 OPS- .310 OBP- 9 HR's.

2006: .747 OPS- .350 OBP- 5 HR's.

2009: .789 OPS- .379 OBP- 12 HR.

[YeAuldBroade]

Scutaro is just a stop-gap measure with great defensive skills, perhaps they overpaid for the one year but it's hard to say. Stopping runs is harder to quantify than creating them.

[Dojji]

Scutaro UZR/150 at SS

2009: +1
Career -2.9.

This guy is what he is. An average hitter, an average defender. Great at nothing, but stable. If he hadn't cost us a first round pick I wouldn't even have worried about the signing. I want to see a guy who's at least really good at one thing. But then I'm a Sox fan and spoiled by definition

[rhet]

Scutaro UZR/150 at SS

2009: +1
Career -2.9.

This guy is what he is. An average hitter, an average defender. Great at nothing, but stable. If he hadn't cost us a first round pick I wouldn't even have worried about the signing. As it is I wish we could have solved SS some other way.

It was a move to stabilize the position. If he stays healthy, he'll be worth the cost IMO.

[Dipre]

Scutaro UZR/150 at SS

2009: +1
Career -2.9.

This guy is what he is. An average hitter, an average defender. Great at nothing, but stable. If he hadn't cost us a first round pick I wouldn't even have worried about the signing. I want to see a guy who's at least really good at one thing. But then I'm a Sox fan and spoiled by definition

He was the best option. I didn't like the signing either, but better him than Nick Green.

[riverside sluggers]

He's a stop gap for Jose Iglesias... so patience is a virtue

[italstallianion]

He's also consistent. You have a good idea at what you're going to get from him instead of Green/Lugo.

[YeAuldBroade]

He's a stop gap for Jose Iglesias... so patience is a virtue
I'm not sure if you were correcting my spelling but it can actually be spelled two ways Stopgap or stop-gap but never Stop Gap.

[YeAuldBroade]

I disagree that Scutaro is only average defensively.

[Dojji]

I disagree that Scutaro is only average defensively.

Well, you're disagreeing with the stats then, that's all.

He is, at least, not particularly error prone.

[riverside sluggers]

I'm not sure if you were correcting my spelling but it can actually be spelled two ways Stopgap or stop-gap but never Stop Gap.

I was replying to Dojii

But I can see that youre trying to correct my spelling. It doesnt really matter to me :lol:

[YeAuldBroade]

Well, you're disagreeing with the stats then, that's all.


and I have no problem with that, in fact I like disagreeing with the stat geeks because I get real tired of listening to their UZR's and WAR's when I don't even believe they have yet to find a 100% (or even 85%) accurate way to assess fielders.

He's above average in my opinion and I don't really care about the sabermetrics.

[YeAuldBroade]

I was replying to Dojii

But I can see that youre trying to correct my spelling. It doesnt really matter to me :lol:
Before this turns into a pissing contest.

NO.. I was the one that used stop-gap, so when I saw Stop Gap bolded and capitalized I made an error in judgment believing you were attempting to both make a point and correct MY spelling.

That is all.

[Dojji]

and I have no problem with that, in fact I like disagreeing with the stat geeks because I get real tired of listening to their UZR's and WAR's when I don't even believe they have yet to find a 100% (or even 85%) accurate way to assess fielders.

Yeah, that's why I worded it that way. Reasonable minds can disagree and all that crap. It's still the best info we have though, since we all know just how much individual good plays and individual bad plays can color our emotional reaction to a player.

[YeAuldBroade]

since we all know just how much individual good plays and individual bad plays can color our emotional reaction to a player.
Well I can't disagree with that statement.

But... I still watch baseball for love of the game. It's one of my passions, not my job. I just want to discuss today's Sox, yesterday's Sox, the Sox from 30 years ago... I know a lot of people are really into statistics and I don't begrudge them their passion/hobby but I'm more into the emotional side of the game. Do the numbers say what kind of leftfielder Yaz was? Frankly, I don't give a crap! I think he was great and since I'm not a G/M that's really good enough for me.

[rhet]

What do you think Dick Stuart's UZR was?

[PWNdroia]

Actually I agree about Scutaro. Not sold on that signing at all, I think he'll be overpaid for what he'll provide. However, our alternatives were not great and Hanley isn't walking through that door.

I think the franchise is rolling the dice on Iglesias at the moment. That glove is impressive, and he's not far away. I'm calling an Orlando Cabrera type ceiling there. Lowrie could also be a factor, but it's becoming clear that his health may not let him be a starter. If he can overcome that, bonus.

I pity Lowrie. He always looks like he'll make a breakthrough and then he gets injured again and gets setback.

I also would not have minded Tulowitzski here either. But the point is, I'd rather have Gonzo over Scutaro. Gonzo would have been a better hitter than Scutaro will be IN A SOX UNIFORM.

[Dipre]

Tulo's about the only SS as untouchable as Hanley right now. Ain't goin' nowhere.

[Dipre]

I pity Lowrie. He always looks like he'll make a breakthrough and then he gets injured again and gets setback.

I also would not have minded Tulowitzski here either. But the point is, I'd rather have Gonzo over Scutaro. Gonzo would have been a better hitter than Scutaro will be IN A SOX UNIFORM.

Hunch? :dunno:

[PWNdroia]

Tulo's about the only SS as untouchable as Hanley right now. Ain't goin' nowhere.

This I agree, but it's worth a try. I am really upset about Scutaro. It'll be Lugo all over again.

[Dipre]

This I agree, but it's worth a try. I am really upset about Scutaro. It'll be Lugo all over again.

Based.On.What?

[riverside sluggers]

You have an issue, here's a tissue

[Dipre]

You have an issue, here's a tissue

Golden.

[PWNdroia]

He was the best option. I didn't like the signing either, but better him than Nick Green.

I still believe Alex Gonzalez was the best option. Not a bad hitter in a Red Sox uni and sensational defense. I'd rather have him.

I just know Scutaro will fail. He's not that great a hitter. Another guy who gets on base but won't be able to get home.

[Dipre]

I still believe Alex Gonzalez was the best option. Not a bad hitter in a Red Sox uni and sensational defense. I'd rather have him.

Of course you do. He hit like .280, and batting average is the source of all awesomeness.

[PWNdroia]

Of course you do. He hit like .280, and batting average is the source of all awesomeness.

Better to hit than men left on base.

[riverside sluggers]

I still believe Alex Gonzalez was the best option. Not a bad hitter in a Red Sox uni and sensational defense. I'd rather have him.

I just know Scutaro will fail. He's not that great a hitter. Another guy who gets on base but won't be able to get home.

The next 4 hitters after Scutaro are Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis and V-Mart...

[Dipre]

Better to hit than men left on base.

Hunch? :dunno:

Marco Scutaro career with men on base:

.733 OPS.

Alex Gonzales career with men on base:

.718 OPS.

Alex Gonzalez is head and shoulders better than Scutaro with men on base no matter what the stats say amirite?

[PWNdroia]

The next 4 hitters after Scutaro are Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis and V-Mart...

Still, he'll end up being a Lugo. I know. And I'm not sold completely on Ellsbury. He's ok. I'd rather have Damon like in 2004. He hacks and runs.Ellsbury is not that bad, but he's not superb.

As for V-Mart, he's a downgrade from the old David/Manny of 2004 and he has no protection.

Youkilis is a contact hitter and can't serve V_Mart as a successful power protection.

What do you mean by hunch? And I don't care about any Scutaro stats until he becomes a Red Sox. Lugo could hit before he became a Red Sox player, and even after when he joined the Cards. Scutaro will do the same.

[riverside sluggers]

Oh my god you are such a fairweather Sox fan or Yankees/Rays fan in disguise

Now Ellsbury and V-Mart are on your shit list? No shit that V-Mart cant hold Manny's jock strap... lets see is V-Mart replacing Manny or is he replacing the .200 hitting Varitek?

Youkilis will be at 30/115+ and V-Mart will be at 20-25/100+

[PWNdroia]

Oh my god you are such a fairweather Sox fan or Yankees/Rays fan in disguise

Now Ellsbury and V-Mart are on your shit list? Not shit that V-Mart cant hold Manny's jock strap... lets see is V-Mart replacing Manny or is he replacing the .200 hitting Varitek?

Youkilis will be at 30/115+ and V-Mart will be at 20-25/100+

I never said V-Mart was bad. I like him, a lot. I just don't see him as the only offensive player. Actually, I forgot about him. He as well as Pedroia and Youkilis can't get it done alone.

And if you go by your theory, Cameron is replacing the once healthy Manny and Bay... pitiful...

[Dipre]

He just said only Youk and Pedey knew how to hit on this team.

Now Youk's no protection for the awesome, run-producing swing of V-Mart.

Consistency plz.

[italstallianion]

Still, he'll end up being a Lugo. I know. And I'm not sold completely on Ellsbury. He's ok. I'd rather have Damon like in 2004. He hacks and runs.Ellsbury is not that bad, but he's not superb.

As for V-Mart, he's a downgrade from the old David/Manny of 2004 and he has no protection.

Youkilis is a contact hitter and can't serve V_Mart as a successful power protection.

What do you mean by hunch? And I don't care about any Scutaro stats until he becomes a Red Sox. Lugo could hit before he became a Red Sox player, and even after when he joined the Cards. Scutaro will do the same.



Dude, our offense was near the top of every offensive category last year. Sure, our offense got a bit worse between last year and this year, but our increases in pitching and defense (and the draft) should more than compensate.


Last Year (MLB Rank)

Average: .270 (T-4th)
Runs: 872 (3rd)
Hits: 1495 (7th)
HR: 212 (4th)
2B: 335 (2nd)
3B: 35 (T-21st)
RBI: 822 (3rd)
SB: 126 (5th)
OBP: .352 (2nd)
SLG: .454 (2nd)

[Dipre]

Dude, our offense was near the top of every offensive category last year. Sure, our offense got a bit worse between last year and this year, but our increases in pitching and defense (and the draft) should more than compensate.


Last Year (MLB Rank)

Average: .270 (T-4th)
Runs: 872 (3rd)
Hits: 1495 (7th)
HR: 212 (4th)
2B: 335 (2nd)
3B: 35 (T-21st)
RBI: 822 (3rd)
SB: 126 (5th)
OBP: .352 (2nd)
SLG: .454 (2nd)


Haha, from the team that lumbers from base to base.

[Spudboy]

PWNdroia brings the lulz.

Outstanding!

God love thorazine.

[Lester82]

On another topic, the starting staffs of Boston, NYY.... interesting what Verducci said on WEEI in Boston. I don't agree with him, but he favors the Yankees staff

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2010/03/19/tom-verducci-on-dc-yanks-have-rotation-edge-on-sox/

[Lester82]

He also said the Rays look like the best team training here in Florida of the Sox, Yanks etc.

[Dojji]

On another topic, the starting staffs of Boston, NYY.... interesting what Verducci said on WEEI in Boston. I don't agree with him, but he favors the Yankees staff


I can't think why. Lester's nearly a match for Sabathia and after Sabathia the quality of the NYY staff goes way down, unless you think Vazquez' resurrection last year is sustainable.

[Lester82]

I can't think why. Lester's nearly a match for Sabathia and after Sabathia the quality of the NYY staff goes way down, unless you think Vazquez' resurrection last year is sustainable.

I know.

I really respect Verducci, but simply disagree with him on saying the Yankees have the edge in rotations.

[Dipre]

Because of the Matsuzaka situation, i find logic in Verducci's statement, but i also find it illogical to expect Vasquez to really be a difference maker.

[msubulldogs21]

I also would not have minded Tulowitzski here either

You know, I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan Braun in LF and Joe Mauer behind the plate but some things just aren't possible. Tulo is the face of the Rockies franchise. He's going to be there for a long, long time.

I like how you have actual facts in front of your face and you dismiss them as if they are imaginary based on what you think is going to happen this year. Please remove your head from the sand and we might be able to discuss things rationally.

[jacksonianmarch]

Because of the Matsuzaka situation, i find logic in Verducci's statement, but i also find it illogical to expect Vasquez to really be a difference maker.

You find it illogical to expect Vazquez to be a difference maker? I thought you were a stat based guy?

[jacksonianmarch]

Just read everything he said, and I think he's spot on here.

First of all, the sox lack versatility in their lineup and I agree that power righties will give them trouble. Plus, with the de-emphasis on holding runners and the poor arms of the catchers, I dont see how a sox-rays matchup isnt a nightmare for Boston.

[Dojji]

You find it illogical to expect Vazquez to be a difference maker? I thought you were a stat based guy?

Sure, and the biggest stats when dealing with Vazquez are h/9 (generally quite high), hr/9 (legendarily high) and flyout rate (which took an unsustainable dip last year -- the single biggest reason for the uptick in his performance).

As a righthanded power pitcher in Yankee Stadium, the already fly ball prone, home run prone Vazquez will really have to pitch brilliantly to avoid giving up 35-40 dings this year. Even though he's not really bad against lefties, he'll give up fly balls and the fly balls off the bat of lefthanders will disappear over the wall. A lot.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is exactly why Verducci is right and some people on this site arent.

#1- Javier Vazquez is coming off a great season. A season of ace level performance where his ERA was under 3, and he put up ANOTHER 200+IP and 200+K season. It isnt like this guy has just languished in mediocrity and now is expected to be great.

#2- Javier Vazquez is going to be the #4 starter. A guy who has shown throughout his career that he is as durable as anyone.

#3- The Yankees had 4 pitchers make 31+ starts last yr, and they are all back, PLUS Vazquez.

Lets put a minimum out there. Lets say that Vazquez puts up 200+IP, 200+K's and a 4.50ERA. Would that not be a massive upgrade? This is the problem here. Everyone seems to think that Vazquez needs to have an ERA under 3 to be considered GREAT for the Yankees. He doesnt. He needs to take the bump every 5th day and give us 6IP 3ER and 6K per night. I'll take that. Lets just have a game here. Just some prediction for the 2010 season

1. CC Sabathia- 34 starts 20-7 3.20ERA 230IP 200K
2. A.J. Burnett- 32 starts 15-9 4.00ERA 200IP 210K
3. Andy Pettitte- 32 starts 15-11 4.40ERA 190IP 160K
4. Javier Vazquez- 32 starts 17-11 4.50ERA 210IP 200K

Now, those numbers are not out of the realm of possibility at all. Actually, I think you can pretty much bank on CC, Andy and Vazquez for at least that level of production and AJ has shown 2 yrs running that he has been durable. Now, tell me any other team out there with a more durable, more productive starting 4. Cmon, go ahead. You cannot

Now, Boston's rotation has the POTENTIAL to give better numbers assuming Lackey sheds his recent injury history, Beckett doesnt go down again late in the season, Buchholz shows he can be durable and effective in the bigs, and DiceK shows he can take the mound and be effective. But, those are a lot of questionmarks, and exactly the reason why I think Wakefield was retained on a two yr deal.

So, the sox rotation may have the potential to surpass the Yankee rotation, but the durability and the effectiveness in the top 4 of the Yankee rotation is EXACTLY why Verducci is right. Schilling said it best, the team that will win is the team that will get the most starts out of their top 5. And right now, you have to say that the edge in that category is NY.

[Dipre]

I love how Jacko ignores everything that may harm his argument.

1)NL East.

2) Home-Run supressing stadium.

To:

1) AL East.

2) Home-Run inducing stadium.

It's not rocket-science.

[Palodios]

I love how Jacko ignores everything that may harm his argument.

1)NL East.

2) Home-Run supressing stadium.

To:

1) AL East.

2) Home-Run inducing stadium.

It's not rocket-science.

Did you even read his post? He said even with a 4.50 era, a huge 1.50 bump from last year's stats, he'll still make a big difference for the yankees because of reliability. Will more runs mean fewer innings? sure, but he's still a dependable pitcher capable of better than average pitching.

[Dojji]

Since the guy opposite Vazquez in the rotation comparison is either Josh Beckett or John Lackey, that point is relatively meaningless because it is not in the perspective of the conversation we're actually having.

Sabathia > Lester
Vazquez/Burnett < Beckett
Burnett/Vazquez < Lackey
Joba = Buchholz
Pettitte > Wakefield/Daisuke

The top and bottom are about equal but the Yankees really lose out in high end depth. They're a "one ace and everyone else" team, like Boston in the first few years of last decade, and the Red Sox as ideally constructed are a "5 upper middle tier pitchers" team, like the Yankees were durng their dynasty years.

[Dipre]

Did you even read his post? He said even with a 4.50 era, a huge 1.50 bump from last year's stats, he'll still make a big difference for the yankees because of reliability. Will more runs mean fewer innings? sure, but he's still a dependable pitcher capable of better than average pitching.

It was in response to his "I thought you were a stat-based guy" post, defender of Jacko.

I've acnowledged several times Vasquez is what he is. A guy who will give you innings and K's, but will give up lots of homers and XBH.

When you talk of a "Difference maker" (which was my initial statement) you're not talking of a guy giving you a 4.50 ERA.

Context please.

[Dipre]

It's really a matter of when Daisuke's ready to pitch and how he pitches, because in the meantime, he's really hurt our depth.

[Palodios]

His arguement still stands. 6 IP and 3 ER with that lineup will win games. And winning games makes a difference.

[Dipre]

You'd have to actually see him pitch to see which version of Vasquez they're getting.

Neither the 2004 NYY, or the 2006 and 2008 CHW got a lot of 6 ip, 3 ER performances from Vasquez.

By your theory, Chad Gaudin could help win quite a bit of ballgames as well.

Not to mention that's not actually relevant to the discussion we're having, which is a rotation-to-rotation comparison.

[Lester82]

....*Shocker* that Jacko went giddy about Tom Verducci's "spot-on!" favoring of the Yankees starting rotation.

Btw, Tom Verducci picks the Yankees seemingly every year in the AL East. I like him, but the SI baseball issue that he helps do each year, rarely picks anyone but the Yankees to finish first in the AL East. Not that it's unusual to see a team with the Yankees talent + resources finish 1st. But, I was most puzzled when Verducci was picking the Yankees to finish ahead of Boston in 2007. I just didn't see going into 2007 how the Yankees had a better club than Boston's.

Verducci then said the Red Sox would have trouble repeating the next season, so he was predicting the Yankees would finish ahead of them in '08. He basically said it was the Year-After Effect for W.S.-winning teams and that Boston would have trouble. So he picked NYY over Boston in '08. I notice he isn't talking about the 'year-after effect' for the 2010 Yankees and all the innings that oldman Pettitte had to log, and even younger guys like CC. It's just tough for pitching staffs coming off long runs in the playoffs + the number of starts that Pettitte, CC, and Burnett made on short rest towards the end.

[riverside sluggers]

Cmon now the Yankees rotation will be healthy for the whole season and the 1-4 starters will pitch at least a combined 800 innings!!

[diony]

When you talk of a "Difference maker" (which was my initial statement) you're not talking of a guy giving you a 4.50 ERA.

Context please.

He's a difference maker considering the "aces" he's replacing.

[Dipre]

He's a difference maker considering the "aces" he's replacing.

Actually looking at it from this POV, you would be correct. :lol:

[PWNdroia]

You'd have to actually see him pitch to see which version of Vasquez they're getting.

Neither the 2004 NYY, or the 2006 and 2008 CHW got a lot of 6 ip, 3 ER performances from Vasquez.

By your theory, Chad Gaudin could help win quite a bit of ballgames as well.

Not to mention that's not actually relevant to the discussion we're having, which is a rotation-to-rotation comparison.

I agree that I think Vazquez won't be that great.

[Dipre]

I agree that I think Vazquez won't be that great.

Best post you have made in this site.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dipre, just so I can get this out there, please give me a prediction for Vazquez in 2010. Go for it.

[Dipre]

It's not about my prediction.

I already gave my prediction in that loooooooong analysis of Vasquez i made which you apparently skimmed through.

Now, putting it into context, let me explain to you what i mean by "Difference maker":

A guy with a 4.50 ERA is not a "difference maker" in a starting rotation, by that account, i don't consider Matsuzaka or Wakefield "Difference-makers" either.

Now i have a question, if the Sox and Yankees meet in the playoffs (and they just might), which do you like better? (Assuming everyone healthy).

Lester-Beckett-Lackey-Bucholz or Sabby-Burnett-Pettite-Vasquez.

Honest answer plz.

[PWNdroia]

Best post you have made in this site.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I completely agree with Dipre on Vazquez. I can't wait until Yankee fans see him fail. They should have kept Melky Cabrera.

[italstallianion]

Then again we were all counting on AJ Burnett to make his usual lengthy vacation on the DL and by some act of God he stayed healthy all year. I guess that was the first signal that God rigged it to be the Yankee's year.

[PWNdroia]

Then again we were all counting on AJ Burnett to make his usual lengthy vacation on the DL and by some act of God he stayed healthy all year. I guess that was the first signal that God rigged it to be the Yankee's year.

Still, Yankees have the offense. Even if their pitching goes down, they'll have offense to keep them in the game. The Sox don't have this.

[TheMino007]

I don't see Vasquez fairing well in NY this time in NY, just like his first stint went or when he pitches in the AL in general. He'll strike out a lot of guys, but he gives up a lot of HR's and he is playing in the ultimate hitters park. The point was brought up that 4 Yankees starters made 30+ starts last year, well thats not gonna happen again. Burnett will be on the DL like he does every year but last year, Pettitte is older, and maybe not this year, but someday CC will break down. As for Scutaro, he's an average player coming off a career year. For a stop gap solution, I don't mind. He'll provide stability at the SS position, something we haven't had in a while.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's not about my prediction.

I already gave my prediction in that loooooooong analysis of Vasquez i made which you apparently skimmed through.

Now, putting it into context, let me explain to you what i mean by "Difference maker":

A guy with a 4.50 ERA is not a "difference maker" in a starting rotation, by that account, i don't consider Matsuzaka or Wakefield "Difference-makers" either.

Now i have a question, if the Sox and Yankees meet in the playoffs (and they just might), which do you like better? (Assuming everyone healthy).

Lester-Beckett-Lackey-Bucholz or Sabby-Burnett-Pettite-Vasquez.

Honest answer plz.

This is just stupid. Somehow, he needs to meet your definition of a "difference-maker." A difference maker, by definition, makes a difference. Adding a guy who can throw 200IP, K 200+ guys and an ERA of 4.5 to a rotation that had a rotating roation spot which averaged less than 5IP and had an ERA over 6 makes a difference.

In terms of which rotation I would take, all healthy and all living up to their career norms, I call it a wash. 1 goes to NY. 4 goes to NY. 2 and 3 go to Boston. But you also have the caveat that Buchholz is entering his first full season as a starter and Beckett has been hurt entering the playoffs two seasons in a row. The entire point is that he gives innings, gives power AND is durable. You can say that about 3 guys definitely in the Yankee rotation with a guy who is getting toward dependable in Burnett since he's been healthy 2 yrs in a row. While you have Beckett and Lackey who have been injured at times over the past 2 yrs, then Buchholz who is unpredictable and a frequently injured DiceK and you see the point here.

[Dipre]

This is just stupid. Somehow, he needs to meet your definition of a "difference-maker." A difference maker, by definition, makes a difference. Adding a guy who can throw 200IP, K 200+ guys and an ERA of 4.5 to a rotation that had a rotating roation spot which averaged less than 5IP and had an ERA over 6 makes a difference.

In terms of which rotation I would take, all healthy and all living up to their career norms, I call it a wash. 1 goes to NY. 4 goes to NY. 2 and 3 go to Boston. But you also have the caveat that Buchholz is entering his first full season as a starter and Beckett has been hurt entering the playoffs two seasons in a row. The entire point is that he gives innings, gives power AND is durable. You can say that about 3 guys definitely in the Yankee rotation with a guy who is getting toward dependable in Burnett since he's been healthy 2 yrs in a row. While you have Beckett and Lackey who have been injured at times over the past 2 yrs, then Buchholz who is unpredictable and a frequently injured DiceK and you see the point here.

Lol.


Way to dance around the point.

A wash. Sure.

Sabby> Lester
Beckett>Burnett
Lackey>Pettite
Bcuholz= Vasquez.

Obviously a wash.

A 4.50 ERA, by the way, even with the K's (which are completely irrelevant) and the 200+ IP (which are not a given, and even if they are, they're not as humongously relevant as you're making it out to be either) is not very good. It's really that simple.

When talking about a difference maker in a team-to-team comparison, you need the guy who you're certain can positively impact your team in a head-to-head matchup. Reading and context comprehension are a ncessity.

[Lester82]

But you also have the caveat that Buchholz is entering his first full season as a starter

You also have the caveat that Joba still has proven nothing as a starter. They were talking on WFAN in NYC yesterday about how much the Yankees have screwed up that kid's transition to starting pitcher.

[Lester82]

And I think Joba is important because I'm expecting a sizable dropoff from oldman Pettitte in 2010. Sorry, last year will take a toll on him. Vazquez and/or Joba will be key for the Yanks this year.

[Dipre]

And I think Joba is important because I'm expecting a sizable dropoff from oldman Pettitte in 2010. Sorry, last year will take a toll on him. Vazquez and/or Joba will be key for the Yanks this year.

Are you crazy?

Petitte will see no age-related dropoff.

Vasquez will come to the AL and be even better than he was with the White Sox.

Joba will finally turn the corner.

End of discussion.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol.


Way to dance around the point.

A wash. Sure.

Sabby> Lester
Beckett>Burnett
Lackey>Pettite
Bcuholz= Vasquez.

Obviously a wash.

A 4.50 ERA, by the way, even with the K's (which are completely irrelevant) and the 200+ IP (which are not a given, and even if they are, they're not as humongously relevant as you're making it out to be either) is not very good. It's really that simple.

When talking about a difference maker in a team-to-team comparison, you need the guy who you're certain can positively impact your team in a head-to-head matchup. Reading and context comprehension are a ncessity.

Wait, did you really just say that Buchholz is equal to Vazquez? That is just not debatable at this juncture. If you really are going to sit there and try to make that point, then there is no debating with you. You're just retarded

[Dipre]

Wait, did you really just say that Buchholz is equal to Vazquez? That is just not debatable at this juncture. If you really are going to sit there and try to make that point, then there is no debating with you. You're just retarded

Did i?

I said in a head to head matchup, the potential results of a start by those two would probably yield similar results.

But you apparently think Vasquez is the second coming of Nolan Ryan.

Hint: He's not.

[jacksonianmarch]

In a head to head matcup with Ny possessing the better offense? See this is just garbage

[Dojji]

But that has jack-all to do with the quality of the starters. In fact the fact that you're making that excuse for the quality of your SP's tell us that you know that they're inferior and you have to throw in the other stuff to make up for it.

[riverside sluggers]

The Yankees offense I dont think will be as big as what it was this past season. Curtis Granderson will love the left field porch, its just the vs left hander splits stand out.

[Dipre]

But that has jack-all to do with the quality of the starters. In fact the fact that you're making that excuse for the quality of your SP's tell us that you know that they're inferior and you have to throw in the other stuff to make up for it.

Exactly.

[italstallianion]

It wouldn't be the first time that Jacko is overcompensating for something.

[Dipre]

It wouldn't be the first time that Jacko is overcompensating for something.

And, he's making retarded arguments, but calling me retarded. Personal insults to try and compensate for a lack of a convincing argument.

I notice a pattern here.

[Lester82]

then Buchholz who is unpredictable and a frequently injured DiceK and you see the point here.

I just had to re-quote that part of Jacko's rant to Dipre, 'cause I can't stop laughing.

I mean Buchholz is unpredictable... as opposed to Joba?

hahaha

And Dice K wasn't really frequently injured for 2 years, but I'd have to acknowledge his recent injury problems like you'd have to acknowledge the potential for dropoff in Andy Dandy.

[Dipre]

I just had to re-quote that part of Jacko's rant to Dipre, 'cause I can't stop laughing.

I mean Buchholz is unpredictable... as opposed to Joba?

hahaha

And Dice K wasn't really frequently injured for 2 years, but I'd have to acknowledge his recent injury problems like you'd have to acknowledge the potential for dropoff in Andy Dandy.

And how about Vasquez' consistency in the AL?

I also love how he points that a 4.50 ERA equals 6 IP, 3 ER every time out. Last time i checked, neither Vasquez (or anyone else) had a quality start every time out.

[Keeper]

And how about Vasquez' consistency in the AL?

I also love how he points that a 4.50 ERA equals 6 IP, 3 ER every time out. Last time i checked, neither Vasquez (or anyone else) had a quality start every time out.

Vazquez had the most quality starts this decade, IIRC.

I think moving forward Buchholz definitely has more upside than Vazquez, but Buchholz is still an unknown quantity. At this point, I would say Vazquez has to be considered the better pitcher. We will see if this holds up after the season.

[Dipre]

Vazquez had the most quality starts this decade, IIRC.

I think moving forward Buchholz definitely has more upside than Vazquez, but Buchholz is still an unknown quantity. At this point, I would say Vazquez has to be considered the better pitcher. We will see if this holds up after the season.

Counting stats are usually directly proportional to playing time.

Remember, i didn't say outright "Bucholz is the same or better pitcher than Vasquez". I stated (and clarified) that in a head-to-head matchup between both teams those two pitchers starting, they are likely to yield similar results.

Bucholz is an unknown quantity, but in the AL East, so is Vasquez, there's really no other way to look at it.

It's easy to look at his 2009 and think he'll dominate in '10, but when you put things in context and look at his AL track record (which is pretty significant) you'll see that even though he pitches a lot of innings, he's never been a "very good pitcher" in the AL, and with him being older and going to that launching pad, the outcome does not look pretty.

[Palodios]

I really don't get how you can just discount Javier because he's moving to another team. Last season he was 5th in IP, 6th in ERA, 3rd in WHIP, 2nd in strikeouts, and tied for 4th in wins in the National League. Last year, his VORP was higher than any Red Sox pitcher-- how does that not make him a difference maker?

Yes, he'll see some decline because of the league and the stadium, but to think he'll actually fall back to mediocrity after a breakout season? As much as I'd like to see that, I'm skeptical.

[TheMino007]

He's moving back to the AL where he has been nothing more than a mediocre pitcher in the past. He's going to be pitching in baseballs tough division and he'll be making half his starts in Yankee Stadium. That is why his numbers will fall and he won't be the difference maker in the rotation that the Yankees need.

[Palodios]

All of that has been said already. It just seems like no one is willing to entertain the idea that maybe he's become a better pitcher in the last year.

[riverside sluggers]

So he wont see any regression from a career year, posting 2.87 ERA... moving to the AL East and the homer haven that is Yankee Stadium?

[Palodios]

Ofcourse there will be regression. But the general opinion here is that after putting up an ace-like year last year, he's going to be a nobody this year.

[BoSox21]

He won't be a nobody but the expectation is that Buchholz could be a high 3s-low 4s ERA pitcher while my personal expection for Vazquez is a low 4s-mid 4s ERA pitcher.

[Dipre]

All of that has been said already. It just seems like no one is willing to entertain the idea that maybe he's become a better pitcher in the last year.

He went to one of the most HR-suppresing ballparks in the Majors, and to the NL. His pitch selection and peripherals remained consistent. There's no indication that he simply became "a better pitcher".

[Dipre]

Ofcourse there will be regression. But the general opinion here is that after putting up an ace-like year last year, he's going to be a nobody this year.

No one has said he'll "be a nobody", but that he'll probably pitch like Javier Vasquez in the AL, as in, a bunch of IP, a bunch of K's, but he'll also give up a ton of runs.

[Spudboy]

The subject of Vasquez has been covered on Talksox extensively. Ultimately, the proof will be found in the pudding. The Yankees added a quality 4th starter that will help them. That is making a difference.

How much of a difference remains to be scene.

[BoSox21]

The Yankees added a quality 4th starter that will help them. That is making a difference.

How much of a difference remains to be scene.

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well, hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".

[Dipre]

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well, hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".

Exactly. Besides, if it's a discussion without attacks that helps pass the time 'till opening day, then what's the problem?

Jesus Christ.

[Spudboy]

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well, hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".

I stated my opinion. I think anyone that can bring about thirty starts and two hundred innings is probably a quality starter. Maybe I'm wrong.





Exactly. Besides, if it's a discussion without attacks that helps pass the time 'till opening day, then what's the problem?

Jesus Christ.


I have no problem. I merely pointed out that everything had been said about the guy already. Much like all the rehashing of Drew's value, etc. . I stated MY OPINION, as is my privilege. You just have to try to make my simple comment into something it's not.

Which makes my comment all the more salient. Almost all the time there is a "discussion" involving you, things escalate to an ugly fight.

[italstallianion]

Plus, with the Yankees offense, they don't need 5 quality starters. Sure Javy will get hit around in that stadium, but as long as he puts up near league average numbers then he should accumulate a lot of wins.

[Dipre]

For rules to exist, there have to be exceptions.

Javier Vasquez 2006 stats:

202 IP, 184 K, 4.84 ERA.

Lots of IP, lots of K's, lots of runs.

It is what it is.

[jacksonianmarch]

So, just because he joined the Yankees, his ERA is gonna jump nearly two points from 09. I absolutely love the objectivity that you show.

[italstallianion]

So, just because he joined the Yankees, his ERA is gonna jump nearly two points from 09. I absolutely love the objectivity that you show.


Well the ballpark and AL lineups might have something to do with it. It's not like Dipre is saying just because he's on the Yankees that he will perform badly. If the Yankees played in the same division and played in the same ballpark as the Braves, then one would expect Vazquez to perform around the same.

Not everything is about New York or the Yankees you know.

[BoSox21]

So, just because he joined the Yankees, his ERA is gonna jump nearly two points from 09. I absolutely love the objectivity that you show.

Does the fact that he's been horribly inconsistent his entire career, is pitching in the toughest division in baseball in a uniform he once routinely soiled himself in mean ANYTHING to you?

[Dipre]

Does the fact that he's been horribly inconsistent his entire career, is pitching in the toughest division in baseball in a uniform he once routinely soiled himself in mean ANYTHING to you?

HAHAHAHA.

Had the Sox gotten him he would have jumped on the HR rate, inconsistency and AL track record in record speeds.

[Lester82]

Jacko talks about objectivity...

NEXT UP:

John Edwards talks about keeping faithful to your wife

http://nonviolentmigration.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/john-edwards.jpg

[italstallianion]

Jacko talks about objectivity...

NEXT UP:

John Edwards talks about keeping faithful to your wife



Followed by:


Former Enron executives talk about business ethics.

[Lester82]

NEXT UP:

Bernie Madoff investment tips for the common man

[italstallianion]

NEXT UP:

Bernie Madoff investment tips for the common man



Followed by:

Man-law tips from Alex Rodriguez.

[Lester82]

Followed by:

Man-law tips from Alex Rodriguez.

You beat me to it... I was thinking of making fun of Arod's lack of masculinity and urge to date women more manly than him

:lol:

[Dipre]

Quite possibly one of the most interesting exhcanges in TS history.

Kudos.

[Palodios]

Most recent article I could find, from three weeks ago. The sox want him wearing a cup, but he's still resisting.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Red-Sox-s-Beltre-rolls-dice-usually-plays-3B-wi?urn=mlb,225635

[Dipre]

Most recent article I could find, from three weeks ago. The sox want him wearing a cup, but he's still resisting.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Red-Sox-s-Beltre-rolls-dice-usually-plays-3B-wi?urn=mlb,225635

Jesus Christ.

Wear the cup!

[whitesox901]

AL EAST: NYY, BOS (WC), TB, TOR, BAL
AL CENTRAL: SOX, MIN, DET, KC, CLE
AL WEST: SEA, TEX, LAA, OAK

NL EAST: PHI, NYM, FLA, ATL, WSH
NL CENTRAL: CUBS, CIN (WC), STL, MIL ,HOU, PIT,
NL WEST: SF, COL, LAD, ARZ, SD

[Lester82]

Tom Verducci and his SI Baseball issue has Red Sox coming in third place, missing playoffs.

Amazing. As tough a division as it is, I look forward to SI being wrong on this one. BTW - Which idiot media outlet will pick the Cubs this year? I guess they can't win after releasing the Cowboy Up dude.

http://www.nesn.com/2010/03/sports-illustrated-projects-red-sox-to-finish-in-third-place.html

[msubulldogs21]

BTW - Which idiot media outlet will pick the Cubs this year?

Hopefully no media outlet that wants to keep any credibility. St Louis is far and away the best team in the NL Central.

[PWNdroia]

I change my prediction. Tampa takes the division. Yankees get WC. Wtach it happen. If I'm wrong, it's vice versa, but one thing is I don't think the Sox will make it.

You've heard me speak or type... whatever... my predictions have been correct in the past.

I predicted the Yankees nearly taking the division in 2007 after their horrible start, Tampa being great in 2008 (this annoyed so many people that I was right on this one), and Rockies for Wild Card in 2009. Now this is my prediction this year: Tampa and Yankees.

[Spudboy]

With the offense we have, we'd be lucky to get second place. The Sox will finish third in the AL East this year. Mark my word.

:lol::lol:

[ThirdEyeOpen]

AL East

1. Yankees
2. Red Sox (WC)
3. Rays
4. Blue Jays
5. Orioles

AL Central

1. Twins
2. Tigers
3. White Sox
4. Indians
5. Royals

AL West

1. Angels
2. Rangers
3. Mariners
4. A's

NL East

1. Phillies
2. Braves
3. Nationals
4. Marlins
5. Mets

NL Central

1. Cardinals
2. Cubs
3. Brewers
4. Reds
5. Astros
6. Pirates

NL West

1. Dodgers
2. Rockies(WC)
3. Giants
4. D-backs
5. Padres