Why Beltre Will Only Cost $2 Million....

[Imperial59]

At least for the purposes of the salary cap.


According to Alex Speier of WEEI.com, the Red Sox only added $2 million to the 2010 payroll for luxury tax purposes after signing Adrian Beltre and trading Casey Kotchman to the Mariners for Bill Hall.

It's some pretty clever maneuvering. The $5 million player option for Adrian Beltre is key, as it pulls his average annual value to $7 million per season. With that contract in place, the Red Sox agreed to trade Kotchman -- likely to make $3.5 million in arbitation -- to the Mariners for Hall, whose contract averages $6 million per season. In turn, the Mariners will kick in around $7.5 million as part of the trade, which will be deducted from the Red Sox payroll for luxury tax purposes. Add it all up and the Red Sox were able to sign Beltre and acquire Hall for just around $2 million. Not bad, Theo. Not bad at all.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2616

[redsoxrules]

Good stuff

[jacksonianmarch]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.

[Plumpamania]

Name one bench player on the Yankees roster better.

[Dipre]

Like fucking clockwork. Holy hell.

[Imperial59]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.

I'm heartbroken that we're stuck with a guy who averaged a 3.9 WAR 2006-2008 for a whopping $2 million. Jacko said he sucks, and we all know how reasonable he is.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am just playing your game Imperial.

[Imperial59]

Like fucking clockwork. Holy hell.

The bitterness of palpable. Jacko spent quite a bit of his time arguing how Beltre would be a huge blow to the Red Sox in luxury tax. He could have just admitted he was wrong, but that would require a small amount of maturity.

[Dipre]

I am just playing your game Imperial.

Bullshit.

This is your game. Always has been. Always will be.

[Imperial59]

I am just playing your game Imperial.

If there's another guy named Imperial who spends his free time baiting on a Yankees board, I promise it's not me.

[Coco's Disciples]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.

I think I'll consider his .779 career OPS over his career worst OPS. He's also the best defensive 3B in baseball.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

[yankees228]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

But, what you're missing is that they've clearly changed their approach.

[redsoxrules]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

HOLY SHIT


Lowell cant play third base anymore , anyone will be an upgrade over him

We also added Lackey

our defense is WAY better than last year

[Dipre]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

*Yawn*.

Add a full season of V-Mart and Marco Scutaro, as well as two players with tailor-made swings for Fenway.

Keep trying to convince yourself, buddy.

The only pink hat fan would be one who bought the bullshit you're selling.

And yes, i'm being dismissive and confrontations because i have little patience for trolls.

[Coco's Disciples]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.
You changed your tune very quickly on Beltre. You also forgot the offensive upgrade at SS. ButI don't think anyone will dispute that the offense has downgraded. You're not breaking new ground here. However, if you really think there's not a tremendous defensive upgrade, I don't know what to tell you.

[Dipre]

You changed your tune very quickly on Beltre. You also forgot the offensive upgrade at SS. ButI don't think anyone will dispute that the offense has downgraded. You're not breaking new ground here. However, if you really think there's not a tremendous defensive upgrade, I don't know what to tell you.

That's not the point.

The point is that the offensive downgrade is not "massive".

Some offense will be lost, but in 2009, the Red Sox' problem was not offense, it was defense and pitching.

We still need a big bopper, which we don't have, but the team will be much more competitive by solidifying pitching and defense, and seeing what the offense can do.

If you think this team will score less than 820 runs next year, then i have a bridge i want to sell you........

[Coco's Disciples]

That's not the point.

The point is that the offensive downgrade is not "massive".

Some offense will be lost, but in 2009, the Red Sox' problem was not offense, it was defense and pitching.

We still need a big bopper, which we don't have, but the team will be much more competitive by solidifying pitching and defense, and seeing what the offense can do.

If you think this team will score less than 820 runs next year, then i have a bridge i want to sell you........
That's basically what I said. Moderate offensive downgrade, but also a pitching and defense upgrade.

[Imperial59]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

If you want to discuss the Red Sox offense, there's a thread for that - http://www.talksox.com/forum/talk-sox-forum/13674-should-offensive-regression-expected-next-year.html

I'm not going to let you derail every single thread on this site with the same off-topic rant about how the Red Sox offense is so much worse than they were last year with Jason Varitek and Nick Green.

[Dipre]

That's basically what I said. Moderate offensive downgrade, but also a pitching and defense upgrade.

It's simple.

Take a look at last year's run differential:

872 RS

736 RA

695 ERA

That "massive" offensive regression will be very much outdone by the upgrade in run-prevention. Preventing runs is just as important as scoring them, and if you got a little worse at scoring but a lot better in preventing, then you upgraded your team. Or so would logic dictate, which is not something everyone on this site respects.

[Coco's Disciples]

It's simple.

Take a look at last year's run differential:

872 RS

736 RA

695 ERA

That "massive" offensive regression will be very much outdone by the upgrade in run-prevention. Preventing runs is just as important as scoring them, and if you got a little worse at scoring but a lot better in preventing, then you upgraded your team. Or so would logic dictate, which is not something everyone on this site respects.
Again, I didn't say it was a "massive" downgrade. I'm agreeing with you.

[Dipre]

Again, I didn't say it was a "massive" downgrade. I'm agreeing with you.

Lol not directed at you.


You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

Directed at the bolded part.

[Coco's Disciples]

Lol not directed at you.



Directed at the bolded part.
Gotcha. I was confused because you quoted me.

[Imperial59]

You know what's particularly hilarious about his rant? He said himself that Beltre is good for a 790-800 OPS then claims he's a huge offensive downgrade from Lowell who he just stated had an .811 OPS last year (but could only play 100 games at third).

[Dipre]

You know what's particularly hilarious about his rant? He said himself that Beltre is good for a 790-800 OPS then claims he's a huge offensive downgrade from Lowell who he just stated had an .811 OPS last year (but could only play 100 games at third).

What's really interesting is how he's desperately looking for ways to attack Beltre after he was pounding his chest because it was all but certain that Kotchman was going to be our starter at 1B. :lol:

[Plumpamania]

JACKSON PLZ STATE A MEMBER OF THE YANKEES BENCH BETTER BILL HALL?!?!

[Imperial59]

What's really interesting is how he's desperately looking for ways to attack Beltre after he was pounding his chest because it was all but certain that Kotchman was going to be our starter at 1B. :lol:

He also spent quite a bit of time claiming that Beltre would be a huge blow to the Red Sox in luxury tax. He's taking it harder than I thought he would though. He's obviously upset, making posts just to say stuff like "Beltre sucks".

I love how he tries to turn every thread into a discussion about how much better the offense was last year, and he hasn't mentioned the defense or pitching at all.

[Dipre]

He also spent quite a bit of time claiming that Beltre would be a huge blow to the Red Sox in luxury tax. He's taking it harder than I thought he would though. He's obviously upset, making posts just to say stuff like "Beltre sucks".

I love how he tries to turn every thread into a discussion about how much better the offense was last year, and he hasn't mentioned the defense or pitching at all.

But if i recall correctly, the real need for the Sox was "three reliable starters, which they didn't have". They sign Lackey, not another word about the subject.

[BoSox21]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.


Name one bench player on the Yankees roster better.

Jacko, you read the post. We know you did. Answer the fucking question.

[Dipre]

Jacko, you read the post. We know you did. Answer the fucking question.

This post made me laugh. Hard.

[BoSox21]

Oh, and try doing it without building a great steaming pile of hype for some unproven rookie.

[bsox0407]

Oh, and try doing it without building a great steaming pile of hype for some unproven rookie.

hey Jacko, Do it, You Won't. lol ......





J/K

[Spudboy]

Like fucking clockwork. Holy hell.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[yankees228]

Jacko, I don't get why you almost seem bitter. Your favorite team won the World Series. They have a good team moving forward. The Red Sox do as well. Lets you move on from this.

[Dipre]

I can smell his fear........it smells fantastic.

[Keeper]

Jacko can hold his own in most debates when he's not specifically trying to undermine the Sox or pump up someone like Juan Miranda, but he doesn't really have a leg to stand on here.

[Imperial59]

But if i recall correctly, the real need for the Sox was "three reliable starters, which they didn't have". They sign Lackey, not another word about the subject.

I don't think I was around for that. That must be why he's been adamant about how the Yankees have 4 durable starters who they can count on for 30+ starts, 200+ innings each. God forbid the Sox have as many reliable starters as the Yankees :shock:

[Emmz]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.

You're ridiculous. You know that?

[bsox0407]

I can smell his fear........it smells fantastic.

It smells like Onions and Ketchup, :lol:

[BoSox21]

Jacko can hold his own in most debates when he's not specifically trying to undermine the Sox or pump up someone like Juan Miranda, but he doesn't really have a leg to stand on here.

Hence the silence.

[Emmz]

His argument holds about as much weight as Nicole Richie's rack.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Thread delivers the goods.

[diony]

JACKSON PLZ STATE A MEMBER OF THE YANKEES BENCH BETTER BILL HALL?!?!

58 OPS+ last year. With a -0.3 WAR. :thumbdown

[Dipre]

58 OPS+ last year. With a -0.3 WAR. :thumbdown

What member of the Yankee bench is better than him?

Answer the fucking question.

[Emmz]

58 OPS+ last year. With a -0.3 WAR. :thumbdown

Hows about doing us a favor and going back to 4chan where you belong?

[Emmz]

What member of the Yankee bench is better than him?

Answer the fucking question.

It's damaging to his trolldom.

[Spudboy]

His argument holds about as much weight as Nicole Richie's rack.

:lol::lol:

She has two empty M&M bags.

[Emmz]

Filled with....... Air

[Spudboy]

Hence the silence.

Maybe he went back to work.

Bed pans can be a lot of work.;)


Seriously, how about beating on him when he is actually on line. That would be far more entertaining.

[Spudboy]

Filled with....... Air

Like her cranium.

[Dipre]

Maybe he went back to work.

Bed pans can be a lot of work.;)


Seriously, how about beating on him when he is actually on line. That would be far more entertaining.

It would be if he didn't log off every time he started getting his ass handed to him.

[redsoxrules]

I just noticed GOM got banned ....what did I miss ? I never noticed

[Spudboy]

58 OPS+ last year. With a -0.3 WAR. :thumbdown

Go back to counting chickens.

[diony]

What member of the Yankee bench is better than him?

Answer the fucking question.
Is that a serious question? :lol: He's horrible. It was essentially trading crap for crap. A 59+ OPS with a -0.3 WAR, that's such a high ceiling for Cervelli/Pena. :o


On a day when the Mets threw a lavish news conference to introduce Jason Bay, late of the Red Sox, Cashman — who has already imported center fielder Curtis Granderson, starter Javier Vazquez and designated hitter Nick Johnson — was working on improving the Yankees’ bench.

Patience, my friend. If you seriously think that the Yankees will start the season with the current bench, then you're wrong, I hope...:D

[Emmz]

Diony/Jacko arguments are dumber than a second coat of paint.

[Spudboy]

It would be if he didn't log off every time he started getting his ass handed to him.

He'll be back!

Good times await.

I have plenty of microwave popcorn.

[Emmz]

Is that a serious question? :lol: He's horrible. It was essentially trading crap for crap.



Patience, my friend. If you seriously think that the Yankees will start the season with the current bench, then you're wrong, I hope...:D

Are you such a mental defect that you can't even answer the question?

[Dipre]

Is that a serious question? :lol: He's horrible. It was essentially trading crap for crap. A 59+ OPS with a -0.3 WAR, that's such a high ceiling for Cervelli/Pena. :o

Answer the question.

Cervelli is a backup catcher.

Pena might not even be able to replicate his numbers, and he's not a better utility positional-flexibility wise.

Answer the question instead of posting a stupid smiley.

[BoSox21]

Maybe he went back to work.

Bed pans can be a lot of work.;)


Seriously, how about beating on him when he is actually on line. That would be far more entertaining.

He made two more posts in this thread after Plumpamania originally asked him to name a Yankees bench player better than Bill Hall.

[Spudboy]

Diony/Jacko arguments are dumber than a second coat of paint.

I've never heard that expression before.

Is that dumber than a stump?:D

[Imperial59]

Is that a serious question? :lol: He's horrible. It was essentially trading crap for crap. A 59+ OPS with a -0.3 WAR, that's such a high ceiling for Cervelli/Pena. :o



Patience, my friend. If you seriously think that the Yankees will start the season with the current bench, then you're wrong, I hope...:D

Yeah, of all people to pick on our bench I don't know why they picked Bill Hall lol

[Emmz]

Yes.

[diony]

Diony/Jacko arguments are dumber than a second coat of paint.

Hall is terrible, unless you can prove me wrong. Which is impossible, but if you do, you're as dumb as us. ;)

[Dipre]

He made two more posts in this thread after Plumpamania originally asked him to name a Yankees bench player better than Bill Hall.

Now diony extends the level of idiocy by mentioning Ramiro fucking Pena and Francisco Cervelli.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Dipre]

Hall is terrible, unless you can prove me wrong. Which is impossible, but if you do, you're as dumb as us. ;)

You haven't answered the question.

Which bench player the Yankees have that is better than our utilityman.

[diony]

Yeah, of all people to pick on our bench I don't know why they picked Bill Hall lol

Because the thread is on Beltre/Hall?

[Emmz]

Hall is terrible, unless you can prove me wrong. Which is impossible, but if you do, you're as dumb as us. ;)

Question. You still watch Sesame Street?

[Dipre]

Because the thread is on Beltre/Hall?

Answer the question.

[Emmz]

And he STILL hasn't answered the question. :lol:

Short attention span ftw!

[Emmz]

Ham is good.

[diony]

Answer the question.

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.

[Dipre]

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.

Lol scum. Did you pick that from a video game?

Can you prove it with stats?

But oh wait, as we speak, Gardner is your starting LF. Now that's a bench player. Scutaro FTW.

[Emmz]

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.

C'mon, you can do better than that there, cro-mag.

[Emmz]

Lol scum. Did you pick that from a video game?

Can you prove it with stats?

But oh wait, as we speak, Gardner is your starting LF. Now that's a bench player. Scutaro FTW.

Last I checked, Gardner was good at running. Last I checked, Scutaro had near .800 OPS.

Sweet argument.

[Coco's Disciples]

This conversation could use a little more civility. Chill out, folks.

[Dipre]

This conversation could use a little more civility. Chill out, folks.

It could also use a little less trolling.........

[italstallianion]

I just noticed GOM got banned ....what did I miss ? I never noticed


Be careful what you wish for I guess.....:D

[BoSox21]

seriously, what did Gom do?

[redsoxrules]

Be careful what you wish for I guess.....:D

I'd rather have Jacko Banned and GOM posting

[italstallianion]

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.



I think John McEnroe joins us in saying, "You cannot be serious"

[italstallianion]

I'd rather have Jacko Banned and GOM posting


I'm not picky, I'll take what I can get.

[Spudboy]

seriously, what did Gom do?

He posted links to camel porn!

Actually, I don't recall all the specifics. But he sort of took it to Def-Con 4 and would not let-up. Apparently, he chose to ignore the admonitions of the Mods and got the boot.

[Dipre]

I'd rather have Jacko Banned and GOM posting

It's a tough decision, i'll tell you that.

[italstallianion]

He posted links to camel porn!

Actually, I don't recall all the specifics. But he sort of took it to Def-Con 4 and would not let-up. Apparently, he chose to ignore the admonitions of the Mods and got the boot.


Permaban or temporary?

[Emmz]

He posted links to camel porn!

Actually, I don't recall all the specifics. But he sort of took it to Def-Con 4 and would not let-up. Apparently, he chose to ignore the admonitions of the Mods and got the boot.

Lmfao.

[Emmz]

Permaban or temporary?

They said permanently, and also, they said we should stop bringing it up.

[Imperial59]

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.

What's wrong with Scutaro? Only a few shortstops have had a better WAR than him over the last two years: Hanley, Jeter and Rollins I think.

[BoSox21]

Well, let's be honest. WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

[Spudboy]

Well, let's be honest. WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Whoa whoa whoa!

[Imperial59]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Whoa whoa whoa!

I thought for a second you meant he should slow down...


now I get it.

[Spudboy]

I thought for a second you meant he should slow down...


now I get it.

Say it again....

It ain't nothin' but the undertaker....

[Red Foreman]

So he wont cost too much, but he sucks. He did OPS under .700 last yr.

Yesterday it was a hope and pray trade and now he just plain sucks?

[jacksonianmarch]

I was playing Imperial's game of what have you done for me lately.

[Imperial59]

I was playing Imperial's game of what have you done for me lately.

Alright Jacko, what Yankees player have I done that with recently that hurt your feelings so much? Why don't you get it over with and just tell us so you can stop hijacking the thread.

[Dipre]

I was playing Imperial's game of what have you done for me lately.

Interesting thing to note:

You get pissed when i call you a troll, and say i'm playing the "victim" card, however, this post is an admission of trolling. :blink:

[Emmz]

Hey guys, chill out. Jacko's not trolling. It's just Jacko being Jacko.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Interesting thing to note:

You get pissed when i call you a troll, and say i'm playing the "victim" card, however, this post is an admission of trolling. :blink:
Your inbox. Clear it.

[Dipre]

Your inbox. Clear it.

'Tis done.

[SoxFan1970]

Your right Beltre and Cameron "HAD" those stats last year. Lets look forward to this year and beyond. Alot of people had a bad 2009 in sports and in general, doesn't mean 2010 is going to be the same.
With that line of thinking we shouldn't even get up tomorrow morning.

This is a solid team, Only teams on paper that can match up are the Yankees and Phillies. So what's the problem, they don't play the game on paper.

[Keeper]

Well, let's be honest. WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

:lol: Nice.


Interesting thing to note:

You get pissed when i call you a troll, and say i'm playing the "victim" card, however, this post is an admission of trolling. :blink:

Wouldn't call it trolling. I'd say he was giving Imperial a taste of his own medicine. Imperial is an intelligent fan and has made sound arguments, but he's been grilling Jacko and other Yankee fans for a lot of stupid shit. Some of it may have been merited, but I think he went overboard.

[Dipre]

Wouldn't call it trolling. I'd say he was giving Imperial a taste of his own medicine. Imperial is an intelligent fan and has made sound arguments, but he's been grilling Jacko and other Yankee fans for a lot of stupid shit. Some of it may have been merited, but I think he went overboard.

You mean doing to Jacko exactly what Jacko's been doing (first as the Rivernator)on this site since its inception? And isn't that the textbook definition of trolling?

Besides, isn't this a Red Sox discussion board for Red Sox fans? A Red Sox fan pulls this shit on a Yankee board and he's banned within seconds. Just sayin'.

[ORS]

58 OPS+ last year. With a -0.3 WAR. :thumbdown
Aren't you the sample size guru? I would have thought career numbers would be a bit more meaningful.

Looks like you've grown out of the binky (when it suits your purposes). You're all groweds up and you're all groweds up and you're all groweds up.

[Plumpamania]

Jackson, I'm still waiting for a response to my initial question. If you can't provide me with a sound arguement, I'll be forced to skip your posts in the future.

[rician blast]

You are removing Bay who had a .921OPS and a .384OBP.
You are removing Lowell who had an .811OPS and a .337OBP.
You add a player in Beltre who had a .683OPS and a .304OBP.
You add a player in Cameron who had a .794OPS and a .342OBP.

You can make all the excuses you want to, but both of these guys are massive downgrades. Beltre, when healthy, is good for a .780-.800OPS and a .320OBP.

The sox offense was built upon being difficult outs. But you subtract two guys from the middle of your order who worked counts and add two guys who arent tough outs. This offense became less dangerous and is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade.

There are some solid points above.

The Sox essentially shifted $ to starting pitching (Lackey), hopefully improving their 'D' but with a willingness to take a hit offensively. It appears to me that the Red Sox FO identified a payroll level that they could live with, took into account the benefit of not signing position players to LT contracts (Bay, Holliday, etc) and added a very good starting pitcher ...all in hopes of competing this year while not totally breaking the bank or mortgaging the future.

I realize it is difficult for most Yankee fans to understand this philosophy so I can't really jump all over Jacko for his comments...they're simply the product of being a fan of an organization that operates under an entirely different philosophy than the Red Sox...and any other MLB team for that matter.

[Dipre]

All Yankee bench players are better than that scum. Wanna know a good bench player in the Sox? Scutaro, oh wait! He's your starting SS.


There are some solid points above.

The Sox essentially shifted $ to starting pitching (Lackey), hopefully improving their 'D' but with a willingness to take a hit offensively. It appears to me that the Red Sox FO identified a payroll level that they could live with, took into account the benefit of not signing position players to LT contracts (Bay, Holliday, etc) and added a very good starting pitcher ...all in hopes of competing this year while not totally breaking the bank or mortgaging the future.

I realize it is difficult for most Yankee fans to understand this philosophy so I can't really jump all over Jacko for his comments...they're simply the product of being a fan of an organization that operates under an entirely different philosophy than the Red Sox...and any other MLB team for that matter.

Yeah, but the whole "this is being sold to the pink hats as a defensive upgrade" line is a bit ignorant.

Last year's team was among the worst defensive teams in recent history according to most defensive metrics and "Watching the gamezzzz" also, if you read above you'll notice him saying he's just "playing Imperial's game".

The shift in philosophy is not something that is "Being sold to the pink hats" it's a legitimate Modus Operandi that's just as legitimate as scoring runs by the boatload, and in fact, it's a better model once the playoffs come in. It's usually the mark of a championship team.

[rician blast]

Jacko's decent points I referred to are the stats...in other words yeah, you could use them to draw the conclusion that the Sox 'O' is not as potent.

My point though is that the moves made this offseason illustrate the FO's willingness to take an offensive hit (potentially) in exchange for 'D' and pitching...as you've said, pitching wins titles.

The greater issue is that Yankee fans don't understand the concept of compromise or trade-offs in that the Yankees have the resources to go after the best of EVERYTHING, as opposed to other organizations that may have to sacrifice one aspect of the team to improve upon another and stay within a fiscal framework that is consistent with ownership's resources and/or goals.

[Dipre]

Jacko's decent points I referred to are the stats...in other words yeah, you could use them to draw the conclusion that the Sox 'O' is not as potent.

My point though is that the moves made this offseason illustrate the FO's willingness to take an offensive hit (potentially) in exchange for 'D' and pitching...as you've said, pitching wins titles.

The greater issue is that Yankee fans don't understand the concept of compromise or trade-offs in that the Yankees have the resources to go after the best of EVERYTHING, as opposed to other organizations that may have to sacrifice one aspect of the team to improve upon another and stay within a fiscal framework that is consistent with ownership's resources and/or goals.

That paragraph sums up everything there is to say about the subject. Fantastic post.

[rhet]

Last year's team was among the worst defensive teams in recent history according to most defensive metrics

Out of curiousity, what metrics are you referring to?

[Dipre]

Out of curiousity, what metrics are you referring to?

UZR, UZR/150, RF/G.

I'll post them player by player if you want me to.

[rhet]

UZR, UZR/150, RF/G.

I'll post them player by player if you want me to.

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw team fielding stats that put the Sox in the middle somewhere. Just ahead of the Yankees.

[rhet]

Here it is. Ranked by team UZR.

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Sox in the middle, ahead of the Yankees.
Seattle #1 by a wide margin. Rays #2. Reds #3. (All three didn't make the playoffs.)

[Dipre]

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw team fielding stats that put the Sox in the middle somewhere. Just ahead of the Yankees.

Probably using fielding percentage or something.

But position by position, the Red Sox consistently had at least three weak links on defense, sometimes four.

Catcher was an obvious liability, don't need stats for this one.

Jason Bay was awful in left.

"Defensive player of the year" Jacoby Ellsbury wasn't very good in CF, advanced metrics support this and so does his move to LF.

At 3B, Lowell was a statue, but when they played Martinez at 1B and Youk at 3B, you had a below-average 1B and an around-average 3B playing together.

Then there were a bunch of starts by Julio Lugo and Chris Woodward who were both absolutely awful defensively. Nick Green looked deceptively good, but he started wearing down defensively towards the time Gonzales was acquired, helping maintain a positive UZR on what would amount to a SSS.

[Dipre]

Here it is. Ranked by team UZR.

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Sox in the middle, ahead of the Yankees.
Seattle #1 by a wide margin. Rays #2. Reds #3. (All three didn't make the playoffs.)

And that's why i tried to break it down by position. Your hated JD Drew, Kevin Youkilis' time at first , Alex Gonzales and Dustin Pedroia all helped the overall ranking tremendously, but breaking it down by position, (specially the middle line except for Pedroia) the Sox weren't very good even after Alex Gonzales was re-acquired.

About the fact that the "top three teams didn't make the playoffs" Seattle could pitch, but not hit, the Reds can't pitch, and the Rays didn't have a bullpen.

I'm sorry you don't like this team if the lineup can't bash like the Yankees, but superior pitching and defense make this an overall better squad than 2009.

[rhet]

And that's why i tried to break it down by position. Your hated JD Drew, Kevin Youkilis' time at first , Alex Gonzales and Dustin Pedroia all helped the overall ranking tremendously, but breaking it down by position, (specially the middle line except for Pedroia) the Sox weren't very good even after Alex Gonzales was re-acquired.

About the fact that the "top three teams didn't make the playoffs" Seattle could pitch, but not hit, the Reds can't pitch, and the Rays didn't have a bullpen.

I'm sorry you don't like this team if the lineup can't bash like the Yankees, but superior pitching and defense make this an overall better squad than 2009.

So, in essence, you admit you were wrong. Fangraphs clearly shows the Sox team UZR in the lower middle, ahead of the Yankees. It also shows that none the top seven fielding teams even made the playoffs.

[Dipre]

So, in essence, you admit you were wrong. Fangraphs clearly shows the Sox team UZR in the lower middle, ahead of the Yankees. It also shows that none the top seven fielding teams even made the playoffs.

No.

In essence, i admit to actually checking out the stats position-by-position.

You're trying to use UZR as a counter-argument, but you obviously don't know why simply using the cumulative numbers doesn't work for the argument, because the Red Sox had top eight players at several key positions (1B, RF, 2B ) and UZR doesn't account for catcher, which was an obvious position of weakness for the Red Sox last season, but i'll assume you already knew this, and know how UZR works:

Postion-by-position breakdown:

P: 29 out of 30.

1B: 2 out of 30.

2B: 7 out of 30

SS: 12 out of 30 (Thank you Alex Gonzales)

3B: 29 out of 30.

RF: 8 out of 30

CF: 30 out of 30

LF: 25 out of 30.

If you'll notice, the team consistently had three awful defenders at any given time, excluding the catcher, one of the team's biggest weaknesses, which UZR doesn't address (i'll assume you knew this) but were carried by excellence at 1B, RF and 2B.

You need to know the importance of position-by-position breakdown instead of using the cumulative number for a formula you probably know very little about.

Oh and about the top seven teams not making the playoffs? Number one, it's a lie, because the Rockies made the playoffs. Number two, the other six were flawed teams that either had no pitching, no hitting, or both (in the Royal's case).

You're a smart guy, you can make a better argument than this one.

[example1]

I've seen this video linked on other sites but not here.

I imagine it will be yanked from youtube soon, but it is called Adrian Bertle's fielding, so maybe it will stay available. In any case, wow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IKDeH9SEg

His release and arm are outstanding and he has good quickness too. Notice some of the plays he makes halfway down the LF line. Amazing stuff. Defensively his upgrade from Lowell--even if Beltre regresses--will be substantial.

EDIT: Notice the way that he positions his body on his barehand plays, for example the one with Orlando Cabrera bouncing the ball off the plate. He catches it as if it is in the midst of his throwing motion. The only way that play can be made.

[rhet]

No.

In essence, i admit to actually checking out the stats position-by-position.

You're trying to use UZR as a counter-argument, but you obviously don't know why simply using the cumulative numbers doesn't work for the argument, because the Red Sox had top eight players at several key positions (1B, RF, 2B ) and UZR doesn't account for catcher, which was an obvious position of weakness for the Red Sox last season, but i'll assume you already knew this, and know how UZR works:

Postion-by-position breakdown:

P: 29 out of 30.

1B: 2 out of 30.

2B: 7 out of 30

SS: 12 out of 30 (Thank you Alex Gonzales)

3B: 29 out of 30.

RF: 8 out of 30

CF: 30 out of 30

LF: 25 out of 30.

If you'll notice, the team consistently had three awful defenders at any given time, excluding the catcher, one of the team's biggest weaknesses, which UZR doesn't address (i'll assume you knew this) but were carried by excellence at 1B, RF and 2B.

You need to know the importance of position-by-position breakdown instead of using the cumulative number for a formula you probably know very little about.

Oh and about the top seven teams not making the playoffs? Number one, it's a lie, because the Rockies made the playoffs. Number two, the other six were flawed teams that either had no pitching, no hitting, or both (in the Royal's case).

You're a smart guy, you can make a better argument than this one.

If you want to talk about players, that's one set of stats. If you want to talk about the team fielding stats, that's another.

I didn't invent the Fangraph's team UZR ranking. Nor did I opine on its validity. I just pointed out the the seven best fielding teams in baseball last year, according to Fangraphs, didn't make the playoffs. And, according to Fangraphs, the Red Sox were in the middle (but ahead of the world champs).

Make of that what you will.

[Dipre]

If you want to talk about players, that's one set of stats. If you want to talk about the team fielding stats, that's another.

I didn't invent the Fangraph's team UZR ranking. Nor did I opine on its validity. I just pointed out the the seven best fielding teams in baseball last year, according to Fangraphs, didn't make the playoffs. And, according to Fangraphs, the Red Sox were in the middle (but ahead of the world champs).

Make of that what you will.

I simply don't put stock into team fielding stats regarding UZR, because UZR is a cumulative stat, therefore, some players' excellence can make up for other player's deficiencies on a statistical basis, but this cannot be applied to actual game situations, i'll admit to not even having checked the overall team rankings, because team rankings by measure of UZR simply won't work.

Example:

Player A had a 8.0 UZR at LF.

Player B had a -7.2 UZR at 3B.

For "Overall" UZR rankings, they had a 0.8 UZR, which discounts the negative impact player B had on his team defensive-wise. And the very nature of the stat compares players to other players in their position, therefore, that's the way it's supposed to be used for comparative purposes.

Also, you're obviously trying to make a point, you used a statistic incorrectly because of lack of knowledge to the nature of the stat, and you're also wrong on your "top seven teams" assessment, because none of those has either a pitching staff or an offense like the Red Sox.

Try again.

[Dipre]

I've seen this video linked on other sites but not here.

I imagine it will be yanked from youtube soon, but it is called Adrian Bertle's fielding, so maybe it will stay available. In any case, wow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IKDeH9SEg

His release and arm are outstanding and he has good quickness too. Notice some of the plays he makes halfway down the LF line. Amazing stuff. Defensively his upgrade from Lowell--even if Beltre regresses--will be substantial.

EDIT: Notice the way that he positions his body on his barehand plays, for example the one with Orlando Cabrera bouncing the ball off the plate. He catches it as if it is in the midst of his throwing motion. The only way that play can be made.

5:22-5:28

"Like a cat, like a Puma, like a Leopard, watch him leap on this ball!!!"

LOL.

[rhet]

My point was, and I repeat, you were wrong about the Red Sox defense last year. Although it wasn't very good, you exaggerated how bad it was. I supported my position with Fangraphs team fielding stats, which default to ranking by team UZR. Fangraphs ranks the Sox in the lower middle, ahead of the Yankees.

I also point out the obvious statistical disconnect between Fangraphs's good fielding teams and championship teams, as the top seven ranked fielding teams did not even make the playoffs. However, I did not share a conclusion here as to why i believe that is.

[Dipre]

My point was, and I repeat, you were wrong about the Red Sox defense last year. Although it wasn't very good, you exaggerated how bad it was. I supported my position with Fangraphs team fielding stats, which default to ranking by team UZR. Fangraphs ranks the Sox in the lower middle, ahead of the Yankees.

I also point out the obvious statistical disconnect between Fangraphs's good fielding teams and championship teams, as the top seven ranked fielding teams did not even make the playoffs. However, I did not share a conclusion here as to why that was.

But again, you're trying to use a statistic that makes a point of comparing players relative to his peers at the position on a global scale, not to mention that, being a cumulative stat, a couple good players (Youkils, Pedroia, Drew) can carry a team to respectability while the discounting the inadequacies of other players on the team.

If anything, you're trying to discount the impact the defensive struggles of four of the eight position players on the Red Sox (C included, which UZR does not account for) had on the team's problems last year.

Also, you're comparing apples to oranges, none of the "seven teams" can be compared to the Red Sox as currently constructed.

If you're trying to make a point, you're failing miserably at it, by trying to not only use a stat incorrectly, but by trying to use seven obviously inferior teams and compare them to the current Red Sox.

I'll post it again:

Postion-by-position breakdown:

P: 29 out of 30.

1B: 2 out of 30.

2B: 7 out of 30

SS: 12 out of 30 (Thank you Alex Gonzales)

3B: 29 out of 30.

RF: 8 out of 30

CF: 30 out of 30

LF: 25 out of 30.

That is three positions (excluding catcher) where the Red Sox had among the worse defense in the league. Not average, not slightly below average, but worse.

About the "not sharing a conclusion line" well, i'm running by habit, since you're the "I don't like anything the Red Sox do and i don't like JD Drew" line. So i apologize if this actually isn't meant as a way to prove a point.

[Plumpamania]

Essentially I'm going to agree with Dipre, the fangraph you use is allowing our strong positions to carry our lesser positions. However when you look at the most important defenders, (up the middle defense) the # of games started by Julio Lugo and Nick Green are a tremendous discomfort to the overall defense, as well as Ellsbury's very much lack of defensive skill at the moment. Our catchers suck hard in terms of throwing runners out, as the Angels ran on us all day long.

In reality the team as currently constructed is less about the 3R HR, and moreso about winning that 3-2 or 3-1 game with strong pitching, and depth there, as well as a very strong defense.

With the additions of Beltre, Scutaro and Cameron and the shift of Ellsbury to LF, where in limited action has an excellent UZR rating..leaves us with only catcher as a weakness in terms of defense.

Enjoy the season, you're going to get old school Boston baseball, being blue collar and grinded out.

[rhet]

I didn't use anything incorrectly.
Fangraphs defaults to team UZR when it ranks team defense. Take it up with them.

Also, you can disaggregate the team defensive numbers any way you like. But you should modify your claim and say that half the Sox defense stunk last year (4 of 8), not the whole team. Then you wouldn't be so at odds with Fangraph's team UZR ranking.

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox were 29th in team defense in terms of DER

DER=

Defense Efficiency Ratio. The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders, not including home runs. The exact formula we use is (BFP-H-K-BB-HBP-Errors)/(BFP-HR-K-BB-HBP). This is similar to BABIP, but from the defensive team's perspective. Please note that errors include only errors on batted balls


so there you go , the Red Sox as a team sucked at defense last year


DER is a much better tool than UZR to determine team defense

UZR is more usefull for a position player and NOT a team

[rhet]

The Red Sox were 29th in team defense in terms of DER

DER=

Defense Efficiency Ratio. The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders, not including home runs. The exact formula we use is (BFP-H-K-BB-HBP-Errors)/(BFP-HR-K-BB-HBP). This is similar to BABIP, but from the defensive team's perspective. Please note that errors include only errors on batted balls


so there you go , the Red Sox as a team sucked at defense last year


DER is a much better tool than UZR to determine team defense

UZR is more usefull for a position player and NOT a team


DER doesn't account for differences in GB/LD/FB. That's probably why Fangraphs defaults to UZR.

[redsoxrules]

Also , I remember watching a interview with Theo about DER , that he wasent happy with being one of the worst team for that

and by looking at the moves he's made so far it makes sense

[Dipre]

I didn't use anything incorrectly.
Fangraphs defaults to team UZR when it ranks team defense. Take it up with them.

Also, you can disaggregate the team defensive numbers any way you like. But you should modify your claim and say that half the Sox defense stunk last year (4 of 8), not the whole team. Then you wouldn't be so at odds with Fangraph's team UZR ranking.

Do you know what UZR actually does?

It calculates the number of runs above or below average a player is. Being a cumulative number. When not used in a position-by-position basis, you risk having the actual value be sidetracked by having a couple of positions with high positive values "hiding" other positions with low value, just as it happens there.

Cherry-pick and whine all you want, in this case, the total looks prettier than the sum of its parts. And it still doesn't account for the defensive deficiencies at C.

[ORS]

DER needs to be adjusted for park. Think about it. It's essentially 1 - BABIP. BABIP uses hits that don't leave the park, and at Fenway, the Monster makes a lot of ball unplayable while not being HR. BP has PADE (park adjusted DER), and the Sox were 18 out of 30 (about where they were with UZR). They are below average (in both), which is bad, but they weren't awful.

Regardless. They are a safe bet to be much better at preventing runs (or condoming them) this season. Whichever adjective they are rebounding from is immaterial.

[Dipre]

DER needs to be adjusted for park. Think about it. It's essentially 1 - BABIP. BABIP uses hits that don't leave the park, and at Fenway, the Monster makes a lot of ball unplayable while not being HR. BP has PADE (park adjusted DER), and the Sox were 18 out of 30 (about where they were with UZR). They are below average (in both), which is bad, but they weren't awful.

Regardless. They are a safe bet to be much better at preventing runs (or condoming them) this season. Whichever adjective they are rebounding from is immaterial.

They were 16/30 in UZR, but 18/30 in UZR/150, compare them to the 2008 club which ranked 4th in UZR, the 2007 club which ranked 9th, and it's easy to see a massive drop-off from recent clubs.

[rhet]

Do you know what UZR actually does?

It calculates the number of runs above or below average a player is. Being a cumulative number. When not used in a position-by-position basis, you risk having the actual value be sidetracked by having a couple of positions with high positive values "hiding" other positions with low value, just as it happens there.

Cherry-pick and whine all you want, in this case, the total looks prettier than the sum of its parts. And it still doesn't account for the defensive deficiencies at C.

Fangraphs defaults to team UZR when it ranks team defense. Take it up with them.

[yankees228]

There are some solid points above.

The Sox essentially shifted $ to starting pitching (Lackey), hopefully improving their 'D' but with a willingness to take a hit offensively. It appears to me that the Red Sox FO identified a payroll level that they could live with, took into account the benefit of not signing position players to LT contracts (Bay, Holliday, etc) and added a very good starting pitcher ...all in hopes of competing this year while not totally breaking the bank or mortgaging the future.

I realize it is difficult for most Yankee fans to understand this philosophy so I can't really jump all over Jacko for his comments...they're simply the product of being a fan of an organization that operates under an entirely different philosophy than the Red Sox...and any other MLB team for that matter.

The last paragraph does not make sense. In my opinion, the Red Sox shift in philosophy has nothing to do with money. They have a lot of money, and they've spent it this offseason. It has to do with building around their strengths. When they had Ortiz/Ramirez in the middle of the lineup, the focus was more on power and OBP. Now that those two are gone, instead of trying to replace them, which is practically impossible (no matter what your payroll limit is), they've adopted a new philosophy.

The Yankees currently benefit from the advantage that the Red Sox had all those years, the dominant 3-4. So now, the Red Sox, being a smart front office, have gone in a different direction; pitching, defense, speed, with some power and OBP mixed in.

[Dipre]

Fangraphs defaults to team UZR when it ranks team defense. Take it up with them.

I will.

I'll tell them exactly what i told you.

[Rdsxmbnt]

They were 16/30 in UZR, but 18/30 in UZR/150, compare them to the 2008 club which ranked 4th in UZR, the 2007 club which ranked 9th, and it's easy to see a massive drop-off from recent clubs.

This is the same UZR that thought Ellsbury dropped close to 30 runs on defense alone from 08 to 09, I think that leaves a lot of questions about its exact usefulness.

[Dipre]

This is the same UZR that thought Ellsbury dropped close to 30 runs on defense alone from 08 to 09, I think that leaves a lot of questions about its exact usefulness.

In 2008, a lot of Ellsbury's value came from his stints as a RF and LF. His UZR as a CF was 6.0.

[Rdsxmbnt]

In 2008, a lot of Ellsbury's value came from his stints as a RF and LF. His UZR as a CF was 6.0.

Still though, he was a 6.9 UZR/150 CF in 08 and then a -18.3 UZR/150 in 09. I don't want to suggest throwing UZR out the window but given the variability it would be hard to make heads or tails of the team rankings.

[Dipre]

Still though, he was a 6.9 UZR/150 CF in 08 and then a -18.3 UZR/150 in 09. I don't want to suggest throwing UZR out the window but given the variability it would be hard to make heads or tails of the team rankings.

I believe one of the reasons for said variability is that both 2007 and 2008 are SS when compared to his full 2009 body of work, that being said, the fact that there is a variability factor inherent to the UZR statistic is absolutely true.

[SoxSport]

I think the Sox are hoping for a standoff on offense vs last year, combined with much better pitching and defense. Lots of things went wrong last year with the pitching (Dice-K, etc), and they are hoping for much better this year. The defense may be the best in Baseball this year. Hitting-wise, they may come out ahead, when you consider Ortiz was an out in April-May last year while he was kept in the lineup batting 3rd or 4th. Ouch. And the same happened to Bay during the summer. Tek was a no-show in the 2nd half.

Defensively, they still have to improve at throwing out runners. You can't have teams running blind on you every game.

They should improve their mediocre road record this year, but Tito may have to utilize some of that team speed better, now that they have even more of it, and play some smallball in those low scoring games on the road.

[Mr Crunchy]

They should improve their mediocre road record this year, but Tito may have to utilize some of that team speed better, now that they have even more of it, and play some smallball in those low scoring games on the road.

agreed, they needed to revamp their offense once the power guys left. Bay and Lowell are both power guys, Ortiz and Pedroia both hit under their expected figures as far as power goes last year and replacing both Lowell and Bay with Cameron and Beltre isnt going to solve the power problem but it does give us other options that maybe more beneficial in the grand scheme of things.
Both these guys run although Beltre doesnt steal that often.
We now have Ells, Pedroia, Cameron, Drew,Scutaro and Beltre who can all run, this team will be forced to change its offensive philosophy from being a patient club with big OBP #s and better than average power to a team that bunts a little more, runs a little more and over all puts the pressure on the other teams defense.
It wasnt just Beckett that failed us down the stretch last year, Paplebon became very beatable and Lester didnt pitch all that well down the stretch either.
Hopefully their arms are well rested, hopefully the bullpen can get to consistancy and hopefully all these new faces bring some energy to an offense that was pedestrian to say the least and fucking awful in October when it mattered most.

[Dojji]

NO bunting. I'm glad we have a team full of people who can go first to third, but if anyone on this team bunts, that's one bunt too many. The only exceptions are Ellsbury and MAYBE Pedroia, who have the speed to beat it out.

There's plenty of room to have an OBP/SB/first-to-third oriented lineup with average power in the middle and score a lot of runs doing it.. Heck, that's what the Angels have done for years now.

[Dipre]

Jon Lester ERA,K/9,SO/BB in August/September-October:

August: 2.41, 10.4, 4.33

September/October: 2.52, 9.6, 3.45

That's elite production down the stretch. And he had a good outing against the Angels, don't know what more you could expect.

Jonathan Papelbon ERA,K/9,SO/BB in August/September-October:

August: 1.69, 13.5 K/9, 4.00 SO/BB

September/October: 1.46, 9.5 SO/9, 0 BB, 0.487 WHIP

This team doesn't have a power problem. It has a consistency problem, which is what they tried to address in the off-season.

Minus the ALDS hiccup, again, elite production.

Last season, the Sox hit 212 HR's and 335 2B, they replaced Bay's 36 HR and 29 doubles with Cameron's 25 HR's and 30 2B's, added a 25-HR/30 2B bat in Beltre, and a 10 HR/25 2B bat in Scutaro while upgrading the infield defense.

The only true wild-card in this offense is David Ortiz. If he plays like he's capable of playing, then there is no "need for a bat". If he regresses further, then we have a power problem and the Sox need a bat.

[Dipre]

NO bunting. I'm glad we have a team full of people who can go first to third, but if anyone on this team bunts, that's one bunt too many. The only exceptions are Ellsbury and MAYBE Pedroia, who have the speed to beat it out.

There's plenty of room to have an OBP/SB/first-to-third oriented lineup with average power in the middle and score a lot of runs doing it.. Heck, that's what the Angels have done for years now.

Hold up there.

This team doesn't have "average power" in the middle of the lineup. That's where people are getting it wrong.

Most teams don't have 85-90 Home Run potential from their 3-4-5 hitters. The Sox do, and they also have 65-70 HR potential from their 6-7-8 hitters. There is power all over the lineup.

[Keeper]

There is also nothing wrong with bunting when the situation calls for it.

[Dipre]

There is also nothing wrong with bunting when the situation calls for it.

This team's philosophy is not to give away outs. But a lot of times a bunt with men on first and second will have a groundout resulting in a run scored instead of 5-2-3 DP that erases the chance at scoring.

Just sayin'.

[Dojji]

There is also nothing wrong with bunting when the situation calls for it.

If you also point out that the situation calls for it a lot less frequently than most managers call for it, I'll agree.

Unless there's a runner at first and second with no one out and a weak hitter up though, bunting tends to produce less runs than not bunting.