Your Offseason Plan

[Dojji]

I'll start:

Signings:
Nick Green, utility IF

Trades:

Paul Konerko to Boston
Manny Delcarmen and Ryan Kalish to Chicago.

The Chisox have been looking for a CF prospect for awhile, and Kalish is one of our better ones, boasting good speed and power even if he doesn't really show one incredible tool yet. Manny Delcarmen is the kind of power arm that teams like to gamble on in these kind of rental deals, and he's an upgrade on guys like Octavio Dotel.

Hanley Ramirez to Boston
Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel to Florida.

That's a LOT of talent, including at least one untouchable. If that price can't pry Hanley out of Florida, nothing will. For a shortstop of Hanley's sheer talent level though, it's a fair price to pay, especially if we're able to keep him around past the life of his current contract.

The trouble in dealing with Florida is that they're unlikely to be as interested in Buchholz, since they don't pay money for ballplayers and Clay's used up some arb time. So you really have to throw together a pupu platter of prospects before they'll really take you seriously, maybe add some money on top even. On the other hand, we might get a bit of grace here for taking a large contract off their hands that we wouldn't get with any other team when discussing a talent the likes of Hanley Ramirez, so perhaps I'm being too pessimistic.

Anywho, final roster

Lineup:

Ellsbury, CF
Pedroia, 2B
Hanley, SS
Youkilis, 3B
Martinez, C
Ortiz, DH
Konerko, 1B
Drew, RF
Cameron, LF
Scutaro, SS

Hermida, OF
Green, IF
Varitek, C
Kotchman, 1B

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Daisuke
Buchholz

Papelbon
Oki
Ramram
Ram-a-ram (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/Ramon-Ramirez-1.shtml)*
Richardson*
Bowden*
Tazawa*

*these are just fill-in names for whoever we bring in to fill out the lower 4 spots in the bullpen. Those roles don't tend to be vastly important and can generally be filled well by a team with good scouting.

That said, shred away, good people!

[Rdsxmbnt]

Well we have two SS to begin with. If we ever did add Hanley then either Hanley or Scutaro moves over to 3B.

[Dojji]

If we got Hanley, what does anyone care what happens to Scutaro? I'll admit I forgot completely about him, I guess that'd make him a very well remunerated, #1 pick costing utility man but that's more what Scutaro's career role is anyway.

[Dipre]

As much as i'd love to get Hanley, i just don't think he's getting moved, and as Rdsxmbnt says, if you do get him, then Konerko doesn't fit.

[Dipre]

If we got Hanley, what does anyone care what happens to Scutaro? I'll admit I forgot completely about him, I guess that'd make him a very well remunerated, #1 pick costing utility man but that's more what Scutaro's career role is anyway.

If Scutaro's getting paid 5 million, he's starting somewhere.

[Plumpamania]

For me it's just a trade for Adrain Gonzalez. Hanley Ramirez is not projected to last at SS due to his horrible hands. He makes way too many errors and has never really hit well from the # 3 spot in a line up. Great/amazing talent, but he's not a good fit for the Red Sox currently.

[riverside sluggers]

As much as i'd love to get Hanley, i just don't think he's getting moved, and as Rdsxmbnt says, if you do get him, then Konerko doesn't fit.

Plus with his addition of Konerko, the Sox would be losing Ryan Kalish, Manny Delcarmen, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel

Theo, who loves his prospects, would slip into a coma if he gave up all those players

[Dipre]

For me it's just a trade for Adrain Gonzalez. Hanley Ramirez is not projected to last at SS due to his horrible hands. He makes way too many errors and has never really hit well from the # 3 spot in a line up. Great/amazing talent, but he's not a good fit for the Red Sox currently.

In all fairness, but from what i've seen, and what the stats show, Hanley has improved exponentially in the six position, to the point where he could be considered an average/slightly above average SS, also, remember that errors are subjective, Hanley gets to a lot of balls other players can't get to, and that results in errors for him, just because he has superior range. My problem with Hanley is that taking blind swings when you've got an obvious option, because there's really no indication that the Marlins are willing to move Hanley.

[Dipre]

Plus with his addition of Konerko, the Sox would be losing Ryan Kalish, Manny Delcarmen, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel

Theo, who loves his prospects, would slip into a coma if he gave up all those players

That would completely sacrifice the future for short-term success, specifically in the case of Konerko. I find it strange to read such a proposition from Doiji, to be honest. (This is not an attack, just pointing out he has always professed he wouldn't mind this being a "step back year" if it will for an improved club in the future).

[Dojji]

The fact is that if we gained Hanley, and kept Buchholz, there aren't too many places I can think of that would be in urgent need of replacement within the next 2 years. First base would be just about it, and that's not a difficult position to fill adequately. And I didn't even tough our catching depth, maybe one of those guys moves over.

Also, I was overbidding so I wouldn't derail the thread by someone pointing out "this guy's worth more than that!" I don't think either player would cost MORE than my posted price -- they might cost much less.

[Dipre]

The fact is that if we gained Hanley, and kept Buchholz, there aren't too many places I can think of that would be in urgent need of replacement within the next 2 years. First base would be just about it, and that's not a difficult position to fill adequately.

Also, I was overbidding so I wouldn't derail the thread by someone pointing out "this guy's worth more than that!" I don't think either player would cost MORe than my posted price -- they might cost much less.

There's not way to know what Hanley would cost, of if the Marlins are willing to move him.

[italstallianion]

I'll start:

Signings:
Nick Green, utility IF

Trades:

Paul Konerko to Boston
Manny Delcarmen and Ryan Kalish to Chicago.

The Chisox have been looking for a CF prospect for awhile, and Kalish is one of our better ones, boasting good speed and power even if he doesn't really show one incredible tool yet. Manny Delcarmen is the kind of power arm that teams like to gamble on in these kind of rental deals, and he's an upgrade on guys like Octavio Dotel.

Hanley Ramirez to Boston
Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel to Florida.

That's a LOT of talent, including at least one untouchable. If that price can't pry Hanley out of Florida, nothing will. For a shortstop of Hanley's sheer talent level though, it's a fair price to pay, especially if we're able to keep him around past the life of his current contract.

The trouble in dealing with Florida is that they're unlikely to be as interested in Buchholz, since they don't pay money for ballplayers and Clay's used up some arb time. So you really have to throw together a pupu platter of prospects before they'll really take you seriously, maybe add some money on top even. On the other hand, we might get a bit of grace here for taking a large contract off their hands that we wouldn't get with any other team when discussing a talent the likes of Hanley Ramirez, so perhaps I'm being too pessimistic.

Anywho, final roster

Lineup:

Ellsbury, CF
Pedroia, 2B
Hanley, SS
Youkilis, 3B
Martinez, C
Ortiz, DH
Konerko, 1B
Drew, RF
Cameron, LF
Scutaro, SS

Hermida, OF
Green, IF
Varitek, C
Kotchman, 1B

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Daisuke
Buchholz

Papelbon
Oki
Ramram
Ram-a-ram (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/Ramon-Ramirez-1.shtml)*
Richardson*
Bowden*
Tazawa*

*these are just fill-in names for whoever we bring in to fill out the lower 4 spots in the bullpen. Those roles don't tend to be vastly important and can generally be filled well by a team with good scouting.

That said, shred away, good people!




Here's what I can think of that's wrong with your post. First of all, signing Nick Green. Second, you'd be giving up way too much for Hanley Ramirez, who plays a position that we just signed a player (and lost a draft pick) for. If we didn't sign Scutaro and gave up less in the trade to the Marlins, then your idea would make some sense, but since neither of those are true, you're f***** crazy. Third, your proposed lineup has 10 players. Fourth, you're raping our farm system for inefficient help to our major league team. And Fifth, you're absolutely raping our bullpen. We had a great bullpen last year and we're losing Saito and Wagner, and you propose trading Delcarmen and Bard? We'd only have Ramirez Oki and Papelbon left. There's no way that we'd have Bowden, Richardson, and Tazawa in the same bullpen until September callups. And Sixth, similar to point 3, your roster has 26 players when you're only allowed 25.


Other than all of that, your plan is pretty good. I like what you did with the rotation, that's probably the only thing you did right.

[Dojji]

OK, I screwed up on scutaro a couple different times. Let's get past that, and see your plan.

[italstallianion]

And 7th, unless you plan on stashing Max Ramirez in AAA, then you forgot about him.



Besides, I don't need to come up with a plan because Theo has already done most of his work. If this thread were made a few weeks ago, then it'd be a more opportune time to play the guessing game, but there's no point in playing the guessing game well into the off season. That's like filling out your March Madness bracket at the Sweet 16.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Here's my plan:

Trade for Hanley: Ellsbury, Kelly, Anderson, Kalish, Pimental

1. Scutaro 3B
2. Pedroia 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Youkillis 1B
5. Martinez C
6. Ortiz DH
7. Drew RF
8. Cameron CF
9. Hermida/Reddick LF

1. Lester
2. Beckett
3. Lackey
4. Matsuzaka
5. Buchholz

CL Papelbon
Set-up Bard
Set-up Okajima
MR Delcarmen
MR Ramirez
MR Richardson
LR Boof

Farm system still includes Westmoreland/Rizzo/Reddick/Tazawa/Iglesias/Bowden/etc

[Dipre]

Here's my plan:

Trade for Hanley: Ellsbury, Kelly, Anderson, Kalish, Pimental

1. Scutaro 3B
2. Pedroia 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Youkillis 1B
5. Martinez C
6. Ortiz DH
7. Drew RF
8. Cameron CF
9. Hermida/Reddick LF

1. Lester
2. Beckett
3. Lackey
4. Matsuzaka
5. Buchholz

CL Papelbon
Set-up Bard
Set-up Okajima
MR Delcarmen
MR Ramirez
MR Richardson
LR Boof

Farm system still includes Westmoreland/Rizzo/Reddick/Tazawa/Iglesias/Bowden/etc

I don't think Florida goes for that package. And you create a hole that forces Hermida/Reddick to be the LF tandem. You also propose a LHH/LHH platoon at LF.

[Dojji]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

Ellsbury is the center piece of the trade (cost-controlled, and a top offensive CF) so substituting Bard and Weiland doesn't really work.

And we already are spending 5-6mil on Scutaro, he HAS to play somewhere so Beltre is clearly not an option if we got Hanley.

[Dojji]

Not from the Marlins' perspective. From their perspective they'll control him less long because we've burnt arb clock. They might go after him anyway because he's a unique talent, but they won't value him as much as teams that actually pay their ballplayers would.

[Dipre]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

You're forced to play Scutaro as a starter somewhere. Besides that, you both underestimate what Florida could ask for Hanley, they know he's the best offensive SS in the league, so they probably ask for a package more impressive than for Gonzo, and the 5 years he has left on his contract with a max salary of 16 million is literally a bargain.

[BSN07]

First of all we should wait and see if the Lowell trade goes through. With Ramirez in the fold the 1B/C rotation should be set.

I'm pretty good with what they have going forward(assuming the Lowell deal gets done). They need to add a 5th OF(Baldelli would be fine by me).

The need a utility IF. Carroll signed already, so I guess Nick Green would be ok for that role.

I'd like to see them sign Sheets to a 1 year deal. But the rotation seems to be set(if Buchholz is not traded).

Outside of that I think this will be the team going into ST. I can deal with Kotchman at 1B for now. He fits well with the Defensive/SP course the Red Sox appear to be taking this off season. It would probably be better to see what's available more towards the TDL anyways.

[example1]

It's pretty easy to start throwing ideas around when a good portion of the offseason is already over. Where were these predictions a month ago?

Look into acquiring Adrian Gonzalez if the price is too high (Buchholz or Ellsbury is too high, IMO) then wait.
Sign Aroldis Chapman
Sign more good relievers
Sign a backup 1B if Kotchman is the only option to start there.

[Plumpamania]

Sign Aroldis Chapman ---- Forgot about that one, as the rest of you did.

Also looking into things, I'd also like to think about if the Lowell trade goes through forgetting about Kotchman, he's a back up..Martinez at 1B and Ramirez behind the plate...

[jacksonianmarch]

You just signed Scutaro. You arent trading for Hanley.

[SoxSport]

I think Konerko is too expensive and too old for the Red Sox' tastes. He's close to becoming a DH. Hanley R. is farther off the radar screen than AdGon. I doubt Bard is going anywhere.

Beltre looks like the preference to me, if the price is right. Consistent with what they have done so far. And Theo doesn't have to give up any of his valued young talent. They are probably waiting for Lowell before they do anything. I think they will use AdGon as leverage with Boras.

[BSN07]

I don't think Beltre is an option anymore at this point IMO. Like it's been said, the Sox are nearing the luxury tax threshold. And probably aren't going to spend any more big $ until some contracts are shed. Don't forget, Beckett and Martinez need to extended, so honestly I'm not sure the Sox can spend a ton going forward.

It's going to be Youk/Martinez/Lowell rotation ,or Youk/Martinez/Ramirez. I don't expect any large moves until the TDL at the earliest, unless Agon's price comes down, which there is no reason to think it will.

[SoxSport]

Rolen just extended for 3 yrs at $8 mil per (MLBTradeRumors.com). Beltre isn't worth much more than that, and I doubt he'll get more than 9 or 10 mil. I think they can afford another 8-10 mil without paying the luxury tax--if they can do the Lowell deal. They can always backload Beckett and VMart extensions.

[Dipre]

I don't think Beltre is an option anymore at this point IMO. Like it's been said, the Sox are nearing the luxury tax threshold. And probably aren't going to spend any more big $ until some contracts are shed. Don't forget, Beckett and Martinez need to extended, so honestly I'm not sure the Sox can spend a ton going forward.

It's going to be Youk/Martinez/Lowell rotation ,or Youk/Martinez/Ramirez. I don't expect any large moves until the TDL at the earliest, unless Agon's price comes down, which there is no reason to think it will.

Over 50 million are coming off the books next year, so that's not a point of concern.

[Dojji]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre, unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.

[diony]

Ellsbury is the center piece of the trade (cost-controlled, and a top offensive CF) so substituting Bard and Weiland doesn't really work.

Actually Ellsbury is not so appealing to low market teams like the Marlins, because he's arb eligible after the season and is represented by Boras.

[Dipre]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre, unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.

Lowell if the deal goes through.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Actually Ellsbury is not so appealing to low market teams like the Marlins, because he's arb eligible after the season and is represented by Boras.

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...

[Dipre]

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...

What i think he meant is that Ells could get really expensive through the arb process.

[Palodios]

My offseason plans

1. extending VMart asap is absolutely necessary. He's one of the top 3 offensive catchers, and if Mauer extends his contract with the twins it means that VMart will be the best catcher available in 2010, which is the same year Posada's contract is over. VMart will be much more expensive down the line if Mauer is unavailable.

2. Stop signing unproven foreign players to big contracts. Sometimes they're older than they say they are, language bariers frequently hurt the clubhouse, and so many other issues seem to pop up. Also avoid any players who put themselves above the team (Bartolo, Manny). Aka, no more dicey mistakes.

3. Hold on to the minor league players who dropped in value this year, ie LOWRIE Anderson, Bowden, and company. The team would be better off holding on to them and see if they can rebound rather than trading them for a bag of bricks.

4. Get Ortiz on steriods. hey, everyone is doing it now, and well, if he's going to be thought of as a steriod-user, he may as well be hitting like one.

5. Don't be overanxious for a big bat. A-gon is not worth Buch+Ells+Kelly. The team will need one for the playoffs, but it can wait until players become more available. Look into other options for the short term, check out Branyan's health, LaRoche, whatever. At all costs, avoid a long term contract on Beltre, defense is important, but its not worth .683 OPS AND the price Beltre is looking for.

[Dipre]

1) Agree.

2) The potential reward is worth the risk.

3) Agree.

4) Whose to say he stopped?

5) Adrian Beltre has a lifetime .779 OPS, and was injured last year, i doubt that .683 OPS is a real indication of what his actual offensive performance would be going forward, not to mention he's the best defensive 3B in the game today, as for A-Gon, Kelly shouldn't even be brought up, since he has been deemed untouchable by the organization, and moving Ellsbury would be a big, big mistake down the line.

[Palodios]

In the future, it might be worth taking more risks on foreign players. However, I think the organization has been doing it too much, and I wouldn't want the PR hit of another fiasco like this year's Dice-k situation.

Ortiz's numbers seem to indicate that he did stop.

I understand the significance of Beltre's defense and his injury. However, what if he's in decline, and its not just an injury? Any more than a one or two year deal would be too great of a risk. I've been reading San Diego Padres news, and the deal that they seem willing to accept was Buch + Ells+ Kelly which is the catalyst for my A-Gon other alternatives topic.

[Dipre]

In the future, it might be worth taking more risks on foreign players. However, I think the organization has been doing it too much, and I wouldn't want the PR hit of another fiasco like this year's Dice-k situation.

Ortiz's numbers seem to indicate that he did stop.

I understand the significance of Beltre's defense and his injury. However, what if he's in decline, and its not just an injury? Any more than a one or two year deal would be too great of a risk. I've been reading San Diego Padres news, and the deal that they seem willing to accept was Buch + Ells+ Kelly which is the catalyst for my A-Gon other alternatives topic.

I doubt Beltre's in decline, he busted a nut last year.....that's about all i'm going to say about that.

Buch+Ells+Kelly ain't happening. Kelly is untouchable.

[ORS]

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...
You are missing his point. The teams on the lower end of the payroll spectrum don't even like those last 3 years, the arbitration years, of control. Depending on the talent in question, those years can start approaching free agent market value for their contributions, which is clearly something they aren't interested in paying.

[TheMino007]

So wow, we could be spending 18 million on two guys we don't have anymore, Lowell and Lugo. At this point the big spending is done and the Sox will focus on the bullpen and bench players.

[Palodios]

I doubt Beltre's in decline, he busted a nut last year.....that's about all i'm going to say about that.

Buch+Ells+Kelly ain't happening. Kelly is untouchable.

I've seen people arguing that its been about park factors, and injuries, but the truth of the matter is that Beltre has had only ONE above average season offensively at Safeco OR Dodger Stadium. The sox have Youk locked up for a long time, so if they sign Beltre, they lock an average player for multi-years at third when we could get a better or equal offensive player like Laroche for much cheaper and short term.1st base is such an extremely offensive position that having beltre on a corner instead of waiting for say.. Carlos Pena or Lance Berkman would be a waste. Do you really think the hit to the defense would be worth signing a 4y/30m deal? Fuck Scott Boras.


And CB+JE+CK? That's roughly what the Padres want. I'm explicitly saying not to make the deal.

[Dipre]

I've seen people arguing that its been about park factors, and injuries, but the truth of the matter is that Beltre has had only ONE above average season offensively at Safeco OR Dodger Stadium. The sox have Youk locked up for a long time, so if they sign Beltre, they lock an average player for multi-years at third when we could get a better or equal offensive player like Laroche for much cheaper.1st base is such an extremely offensive position that having beltre on a corner instead of waiting for say.. Carlos Pena or Lance Berkman would be a waste. Do you really think the hit to the defense would be worth signing a 4y/30m deal? Fuck Scott Boras.


And CB+JE CK? That's roughly what the Padres want. I'm explicitly saying not to make the deal.

I'm agreeing with this.

And no:

1) You're only looking at the offensive side of things, this is a crucial mistake, specially with LaRoche.

2) Beltre has had roughly the same OPS+ (which ignores park adjustments) as Lowell if you take out his completely fluke 2007 season during Beltre's time with Seattle and Lowell's time with Boston, and don't get me started on their respective ages and Lowell's current injuries..

3)No one is giving Beltre more than 2 years w/option at 9 per or less. If they are, the GM should be fired.

[Palodios]

My offseason plans

....

At all costs, avoid a long term contract on Beltre

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix, clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense already had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?

[Dipre]

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix, clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?

I believe Tex's contract was more of a respect issue.

I also don't believe Beltre wouldn't be able to provide above-average production by positional standards for the next 3-4 years at the hot corner. Agree to disagree, i guess.

[BSN07]

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix, clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense already had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?

How? He is said to be looking for a 3 year deal. And will probably get it from someone.

[SoxSport]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre, unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.

Off Pap's performance last year, I would say Pap will not get a big contract here. Bard is waiting in the wings, and the Red Sox are not the type organization to give big money to a closer.

[Dipre]

Off Pap's performance last year, I would say Pap will not get a big contract here. Bard is waiting in the wings, and the Red Sox are not the type organization to give big money to a closer.

Arbitration.

[flinch]

Saw this on another forum and I like the idea: Sign Bengie Molina for two years and have Vmart play first. Bengie still gets it done. What do you guys think? Varitek becomes the third catcher

[riverside sluggers]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million, that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings

[BSN07]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million, that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings

^ This

We are on the same page this morning :D

[bsox0407]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million, that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings

I hope that this isn't true. IMO we need to pick up a LF. Going into the Season with Cameron and Ellsbury in CF and LF.

[BSN07]

I hope that this isn't true. IMO we need to pick up a LF. Going into the Season with Cameron and Ellsbury in CF and LF.

I hate to be the one to let you know. But LF is filled. The only moves the Sox will be making, is fo a utility IF, 5th OF, possibly a BP arm or 2. And possibly moving Lowell at a later date.

[bsox0407]

I hate to be the one to let you know. But LF is filled. The only moves the Sox will be making, is fo a utility IF, 5th OF, possibly a BP arm or 2. And possibly moving Lowell at a later date.

Last year we had 5 outfielders. IF it was me in FO but we all know that would never happen. I would sign Bay and have Hermida and CAmeron as backups and i know that Cameron is an expensive back up but he could really Help Ellsbury if he stays in CF. Plus I know it prolly won't happen its just a blind Hope.

I would really like to get Gonzo but would not like to give up Buchholz or Ells. I am willing to give up Kelly if we keep Buchholz.

If Lowell gets the surgery in the next few days he will be ready by Spring Training. If he is healthy i would be willing to him being a 3b or as the Sox said they were gonna teach him to be a 1B he could play 1B and switch Youk to 3b.

I know these things prolly won't happen but can't a man hope. :lol:

[Dipre]

Last year we had 5 outfielders. IF it was me in FO but we all know that would never happen. I would sign Bay and have Hermida and CAmeron as backups and i know that Cameron is an expensive back up but he could really Help Ellsbury if he stays in CF. Plus I know it prolly won't happen its just a blind Hope.

I would really like to get Gonzo but would not like to give up Buchholz or Ells. I am willing to give up Kelly if we keep Buchholz.

If Lowell gets the surgery in the next few days he will be ready by Spring Training. If he is healthy i would be willing to him being a 3b or as the Sox said they were gonna teach him to be a 1B he could play 1B and switch Youk to 3b.

I know these things prolly won't happen but can't a man hope. :lol:

None of those things will happen.

1) Mike Cameron is a 25-30 HR bat being paid 7.5 AAV.He's also a better outfielder and hitter than Ellsbury. He's simply not a backup.

2)Getting Gonzales without Bucholz and/or Ells is impossible.

3) Lowell can no longer play defense at 3B, the FO knows this, and doesn't want him manning 3B next year, he has also never played 1B in the Majors, so it would be a risky experiment for the Sox.

Blind hope is never a good thing, my friend.

[bsox0407]

None of those things will happen.

1) Mike Cameron is a 25-30 HR bat being paid 7.5 AAV.He's also a better outfielder and hitter than Ellsbury. He's simply not a backup.

2)Getting Gonzales without Bucholz and/or Ells is impossible.

3) Lowell can no longer play defense at 3B, the FO knows this, and doesn't want him manning 3B next year, he has also never played 1B in the Majors, so it would be a risky experiment for the Sox.

Blind hope is never a good thing, my friend.

I know, just let me have this one. :lol:

But Cameron could help Ellsbury defensively. which in the Future will make Ellsbury better defensively.

[Dipre]

I know, just let me have this one. :lol:

But Cameron could help Ellsbury defensively. which in the Future will make Ellsbury better defensively.

I agree with this though. Cameron could probably "mentor" Ellsbury.

[BSN07]

I think Lowell get's dealt at some point anyways. If not he could see time at 1B and DH. He would probably be better against tough LHP then Ortiz.

The Sox may be lacking in "star" power in places, but I would wager they have one of the more solid 1-25 rosters in the league. Most of their back ups are starters somewhere else.

[TheMino007]

The loss of Bay's bat hurts the offense, but if you can't improve the offense, then improve the pitching and defense. If your losing runs scored, at least your increasing your run prevention. Ellbury in LF, Cameron in CF, and Drew in RF is a damn good defensive OF. The only complaint I have about moving Ellsbury to LF is that in Fenway his range will be wasted, the guy could cover a lot of ground and got to a lot of balls I don't think Cameron would have. Youk is an upgrade over Lowell at third and Scutaro is a steadying force at SS, nothing spectactualar, but he'll make the routine plays. You have a 1-2-3 of Beckett, Lester, Lackey and you have three guys who should post ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Dice-K will be better than last year. Kotchman will be a fine defensive firstbaseman.

[Dipre]

The loss of Bay's bat hurts the offense, but if you can't improve the offense, then improve the pitching and defense. If your losing runs scored, at least your increasing your run prevention. Ellbury in LF, Cameron in CF, and Drew in RF is a damn good defensive OF. The only complaint I have about moving Ellsbury to LF is that in Fenway his range will be wasted, the guy could cover a lot of ground and got to a lot of balls I don't think Cameron would have. Youk is an upgrade over Lowell at third and Scutaro is a steadying force at SS, nothing spectactualar, but he'll make the routine plays. You have a 1-2-3 of Beckett, Lester, Lackey and you have three guys who should post ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Dice-K will be better than last year. Kotchman will be a fine defensive firstbaseman.

For one, "range" is not the main factor on the quality of an Outfielder IMO.

Juan Pierre had much more speed and range than Jim Edmonds, but who was the better CF?

Also, i firmly believe Kotchman is a WCS.

[TheMino007]

WCS? Can i be informed to what that his hahaa? Anyway, range isn't the most important thing, but it can be beneficial granted a player doesn't believe too heavily in their ability to get every ball that his hit near them. If you got a a guy diving around for balls he has no business going for instead of just playing it safe, singles can turn into triples. But if you have a guy who takes the right angles to the ball and who covers a lot of ground, that seems like good run prevention to me.

[Dipre]

WCS? Can i be informed to what that his hahaa? Anyway, range isn't the most important thing, but it can be beneficial granted a player doesn't believe too heavily in their ability to get every ball that his hit near them. If you got a a guy diving around for balls he has no business going for instead of just playing it safe, singles can turn into triples. But if you have a guy who takes the right angles to the ball and who covers a lot of ground, that seems like good run prevention to me.

Worst-case scenario.

The bolded part describes Mike Cameron.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Off Pap's performance last year, I would say Pap will not get a big contract here. Bard is waiting in the wings, and the Red Sox are not the type organization to give big money to a closer.

Keith Foulke?

[TheMino007]

Ortiz hitting 4, now that is a scary thought. 1-3 looks great, but at this stage in his career Ortiz isn't a cleanup hitter, ideally he should be hitting sixth. V-Mart isn't a home run hitting type that should be in the cleanup spot. This team still lacks a true clean up hitter. They missed out last year on Tex, and right now Theo is doing his best to screw up and not land Gonzalez. Looking at the each guy by themselves looks ok 3-7 in lineup listed above are all guys who can hit 20 home runs. When you put it all together, the Sox had problems scoring last year, even with V-Mart, and we saw that in the playoffs. A times this offense was down right horrible. Sure the offense was third in runs scored, but a lot of those runs were garbage runs. The team couldn't hit when it needed to. If you look at this lineup compared to last year, it is signficicantly worse, about 35 home runs and 115 RBI's worse. Scutaro is better than anything we had last year, we have a full year of V-Mart, and Cameron can hit 20 bombs, but the offense as a whole still sucks.

[Emmz]

Garbage runs? 3rd in runs scored is 3rd in runs scored. We were an elite offense, and there's not much you can say about that. I agree that we don't have a true cleanup hitter, though. However, Ortiz is still a much better hitter than he's given credit for. You have to look at his hitting after the absolutely disgustingly bad start he had to the season. That's probably what you get from Ortiz, and probably a return to the 30 HR range.

[Dipre]

Theo is doing his best to screw up and not land Gonzalez.

No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Stop making assumptions, since a convincing package was offered to San Diego for Gonzalez, but they want to maximize their return to him by holding on to him, and who could blame them?

You can't blame the FO for another team not wanting to trade their best player.


If you look at this lineup compared to last year, it is signficicantly worse, about 35 home runs and 115 RBI's worse. Scutaro is better than anything we had last year, we have a full year of V-Mart, and Cameron can hit 20 bombs, but the offense as a whole still sucks.

This offense, as constructed right now, is still very much above average. Your saying it sucks denotes both ignorance and the defeatist nature of Red Sox fans who hadn't won a championship in over 80 years. Newsflash: Different FO, different team. All we need is a competent 1B to hold the fort until a better bat is found.

[Dojji]

Konerko or Berkman would be a good short-term fix, as long as their respective teams don't ask the moon. On the whole I'd rather deal with the Chisox since Houston's a lot more likely to be needlessly stubborn about it.

[Dipre]

Konerko or Berkman would be a good short-term fix, as long as their respective teams don't ask the moon. On the whole I'd rather deal with the Chisox since Houston's a lot more likely to be needlessly stubborn about it.

Anything other than Casey Kotchman, and we're good.

[Emmz]

Kotchman sucks ass. Anything but Kotchman, and I'd prefer NOT to have LaRoche either, as we could definitely do much better than that.