Sox reportedly land Victor Martinez

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/red-sox-to-acquire-victor-martinez.html


USA Today's Bob Nightengale via Twitter: the Red Sox are about to acquire first baseman/catcher Victor Martinez from the Indians. Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse, trying to confirm, says it "looks good." FOX Sports agrees.

More details coming, no return package specified yet.

[Dojji]

Cya clay! Hope you like it in Cleveland.

Still hoping for my little theory that we're getting some players to turn around and add to a deal for another guy like Gonzalez. I wouldn't say no to landing Paul Konerko either, since the Chisox don't look to be going anywhere this year.

I'm still not sure how we fit this guy in. seems to me we need to have Lowell not in the lineup for the acquisition of both LaRoche and Martinez to make sense.

[Spudboy]

1:27 p.m.: For those hoping the Sox might re-acquire Orlando Cabrera as a stopgap at shortstop, no such luck. The A's have dealt him to the Twins for prospect Tyler Ladenorf.

Not than anyone actually expected O Cab back here. Just thought it was worth noting.

[a700hitter]

Cya clay! Hope you like it in Cleveland.

Still hoping for my little theory that we're getting some players to turn around and add to a deal for another guy like Gonzalez. I wouldn't say no to landing Paul Konerko either, since the Chisox don't look to be going anywhere this year.

I'm still not sure how we fit this guy in. seems to me we need to have Lowell not in the lineup for the acquisition of both LaRoche and Martinez to make sense.How many first basemen do we need?

[Coco's Disciples]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we didn't trade Clay.

[Dipre]

How many first basemen do we need?

Martinez can play 1st, C or DH.

And we could, of course, quickly flip LaRoche with something for maybe a SS, even if it is a Glovey MCnoodleBat.

[Spudboy]

Cya clay! Hope you like it in Cleveland.

Still hoping for my little theory that we're getting some players to turn around and add to a deal for another guy like Gonzalez. I wouldn't say no to landing Paul Konerko either, since the Chisox don't look to be going anywhere this year.

I'm still not sure how we fit this guy in. seems to me we need to have Lowell not in the lineup for the acquisition of both LaRoche and Martinez to make sense.

Even with the logjam at the corner spots, I'd love to see Gonzalez here. It does not look likely, at least until the off season!

[Dojji]

The answer to that question depends on Ortiz.

[Dojji]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we didn't trade Clay.

That worries me even more. the Indians are in a position to truly covet Bard, since they haven't had a true closer since forever and it cost them in 2007, and I'd rather lose Clay than Bard.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9876546/Source:-Red-Sox-close-to-deal-for-Indians'-Martinez


Per Frodo Baggins:


The Red Sox are on the verge of acquiring catcher Victor Martinez from the Indians, according to a major-league source.

The deal is straight-up between the Red Sox and Indians. No third team is involved.

The deal almost certainly will end the Red Sox's pursuit of Padres first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, likely ensuring that he will remain in San Diego.

[Gom]

I think you gave up a lot in Buchholz for Martinez [if that's what you gave up]. He's not much of a catcher, and is his offense really much more than Ortiz to make it worthwhile? I'm not so sure.

[Dipre]

That worries me even more. the Indians are in a position to truly covet Bard, since they haven't had a true closer since forever and it cost them in 2007, and I'd rather lose Clay than Bard.

Chris Perez says hello.

I'm willing to bet either Bowden or Masterson were part of the deal.

If the Sox go out and acquire Gonzo now, i'll be very happy in the pants.

[Dojji]

Sounds like rosenhal is just speculating here.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think you gave up a lot in Buchholz for Martinez [if that's what you gave up]. He's not much of a catcher, and is his offense really much more than Ortiz to make it worthwhile? I'm not so sure.
Agreed, Buchholz for Martinez is bad.

[Dipre]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9876546/Source:-Red-Sox-close-to-deal-for-Indians'-Martinez


Per Frodo Baggins:

I just have to laugh every time i see that.

[Dojji]

Chris Perez says hello.

I'm willing to bet either Bowden or Masterson were part of the deal.

If the Sox go out and acquire Gonzo now, i'll be very happy in the pants.

You think the acquisition of Chris Perez would stop them from acquiring Bard? He's a great power lefty, but he isn't yet the shutdown closer he's going to be.

[Coco's Disciples]

How can we really judge this trade yet?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

How can we really judge this trade yet?
I'm judging what the trade might be.

[Coco's Disciples]

Perez is RH.

[Dojji]

Here's a question. what does the acquisition of another catcher say about Wakefield? Certainly the roster victim of Martinez is quite likely to be Kottaras since we aren't losing another roster player, and Kottaras may or may not slip through waivers -- too many people were paying attention to what he did in AAA last year and too many people have sucky catchers.

The only reason you acquire Martinez with a healthy Varitek is if you think he'll be playing 1B primarily (in which case why did you acquire LaRoche?) or if you think that the situation that requires us to maintain Kottaras on the roster is no longer valid for the year. Namely that we're done with Wake until at least the offseason.

[Dipre]

You think the acquisition of Chris Perez would stop them from acquiring Bard? He's a great power lefty, but he isn't yet the shutdown closer he's going to be.

A) Chris Perez is a righty.

B )I doubt the Sox will trade Bard in a Martinez negotiation. It's overkill.

[Dojji]

1) D'oh you're right, I wonder who I was mixing him up with this time.

2) My fear is they'd rather deal Bard than Buchholz. Reliever < starter and all that.

[redsoxrules]

I'm thinking Lowell is badly injured and Youk we'll be at 3rd with Vmart at first
why else make this move ?

[Looch Ness Monster]

Joel Sherman says Buck's involved.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

FWIW, I just turned on SportsCenter and they're saying 'talks are heating up'. But then again, its ESPN.


Dojji, I doubt this has any correlation to Wakefield. To the front office, Martinez is a bat first and a catcher second.

[redsoxrules]

Joel Sherman says Buck's involved.

Awfull

I would of rather sell half the farm for Halladay or Agon than give up Buchholz for V-mart

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Joel Sherman says Buck's involved.
uggggghhhhh

[Dojji]

Joel Sherman says Buck's involved.

OK, as long as Buchholz is the entire package I can live with that. Would still prefer another piece coming back, but it's hard to deny that Buchholz' stock has fallen a bit recently.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Awfull

I would of rather sell half the farm for Halladay or Agon than give up Buchholz for V-mart
I'm holding out hope that we're getting something else with Martinez, if that really is the case.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Here's a question. what does the acquisition of another catcher say about Wakefield? Certainly the roster victim of Martinez is quite likely to be Kottaras since we aren't losing another roster player, and Kottaras may or may not slip through waivers -- too many people were paying attention to what he did in AAA last year and too many people have sucky catchers.

The only reason you acquire Martinez with a healthy Varitek is if you think he'll be playing 1B primarily (in which case why did you acquire LaRoche?) or if you think that the situation that requires us to maintain Kottaras on the roster is no longer valid for the year. Namely that we're done with Wake until at least the offseason.

You do realize that Martinez is not that good of a catcher at all, as has been said everywhere millions of times and why the Indians moved him to 1B, so why would Boston want to bring in someone who's already not that good at catching to catch the hardest pitch there is to catch?

[Dipre]

Joel Sherman says Buck's involved.

If they traded Buch for Martinez straight up, i'm going to fucking break stuff.

[Looch Ness Monster]

1:27pm: FOX now says Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard are not in this deal.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The Indians' exact return is not known, but the Red Sox did not include either right-hander Clay Buchholz nor right-hander Daniel Bard in the deal, according to a source.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9875596/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Friday's-edition

Again, its Frodo, so who knows.


EDIT: Looch Ness beat me. But whatever.

[Dojji]

I could go for Buchholz and a small piece for, say, Martinez and Laffey.

[redsoxrules]

1:27pm: FOX now says Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard are not in this deal.

they better not be

[Dojji]

You do realize that Martinez is not that good of a catcher at all, as has been said everywhere millions of times and why the Indians moved him to 1B, so why would Boston want to bring in someone who's already not that good at catching to catch the hardest pitch there is to catch?

That's kinda my point, this move only makes sense if Wakefield's done for the year since you'll probably have to sacrifice Kottaras to put him on the roster.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

That's kinda my point, this move only makes sense if Wakefield's done for the year since you'll probably have to sacrifice Kottaras to put him on the roster.

Oh yeah. I didn't look at it like that haha

[Dojji]

they better not be

that's very good news. The only other guy I'd like to preserve if we can is Josh Reddick, beyond that I'm cool with whoever else can be dealt..

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

That's kinda my point, this move only makes sense if Wakefield's done for the year since you'll probably have to sacrifice Kottaras to put him on the roster.
Not concerned. Again, for all intents and purposes, Martinez is a bat first and catcher/first baseman second.

[Cityofchampions33]

Hearing it's a package around Hagadone and Bowden, which is awesome. Buchholz and Bard, hopefully Kelly, and Anderson are still here when all is said and done.

[Dojji]

Not concerned. Again, for all intents and purposes, Martinez is a bat first and catcher/first baseman second.

Still have to put him on the roster somehow. The best way to do that is to make him the second catcher

[Dipre]

1:27pm: FOX now says Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard are not in this deal.

Yay!

[Coco's Disciples]

Word.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Where do you stick him in the lineup? Assuming that he's going to mostly be used as a Lowell replacement.

CF Jacoby Ellsbury
2B Dustin Pedroia
3B Kevin Youkilis
LF Jason Bay
DH David Ortiz
1B Victor Martinez
RF J.D. Drew
C Jason Varitek
SS Nick Green/Jed Lowrie

[Dojji]

Hearing it's a package around Hagadone and Bowden, which is awesome. Buchholz and Bard, hopefully Kelly, and Anderson are still here when all is said and done.

We actually managed to offload Hagadone? As in Mr. Nicholas "23 years old in Greenville" Hagadone? For VMart? Not bad.

I think that Bowden's going to be a very good MLB pitcher though. Maybe not an ace, but very possibly an above average SP.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Still have to put him on the roster somehow. The best way to do that is to make him the second catcher
And he catches Wakefield.


Or, maybe they relieve Martinez of all his catcher duties, keep Kottaras on, send Lowell to the season DL (if that officially exists), yadayadayada...

[a700hitter]

Hearing it's a package around Hagadone and Bowden, which is awesome. Buchholz and Bard, hopefully Kelly, and Anderson are still here when all is said and done....or the other shoe hasn't dropped yet and there is a second deal coming. It's early for Theo. There's 83 minutes left to the deadline.

[He Hate Me]

I wouldn't do Bucholz for Martinez. i mean, the guy threw a no hitter. Martinez is a 30 year old whose catching days are definetely behind him. I'd say he's no more than strictly a DH at this point. If on the other hand, it was Masterson and Bowden, then I'd think it would be a better deal. VMart has an excellent team friendly contract so Clay might be the cornerstone of the deal.

[Coco's Disciples]

I'm hearing Masterson and Hagadone

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Masterson and Hagadone? Like, yay.

[Gom]

I think the Red Sox gave up more than they should have for V-Mart. I'm just not much of a fan of a .800 OPS DH.

[He Hate Me]

Where do you stick him in the lineup? Assuming that he's going to mostly be used as a Lowell replacement.

CF Jacoby Ellsbury
2B Dustin Pedroia
3B Kevin Youkilis
LF Jason Bay
DH David Ortiz
1B Victor Martinez
RF J.D. Drew
C Jason Varitek
SS Nick Green/Jed Lowrie

I'd go with Martinez at the 4 or 5 spot.and bump Bay or Ortiz down for now. Bay's been struggling lately hasn't he?

[Jasonbay44]

Really? Masterson and Hagadone? Im happy if thats true.

[Dojji]

Masterson and Hagadone? Like, yay.

That's very, very good.

[Dipre]

Dipre's bursting with win lineup:

Ells
Pedey
Youk
Papi
Martinez
Bay
Drew
V-Tek
FAIL

[Spudboy]

I'm hearing Masterson and Hagadone

So who is our long reliever? Smoltz? Hunter Jones?

Does anyone believe that LaRoche may be moved?

[Ellsy]

Yup, they're saying Hagadone and Masterson:


1:35pm: MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo says (via Twitter) pitchers Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson are in the deal. Gut reaction: nice haul.

Wow, nice deal if we got out of this without losing either Bard, Bowden or Buchh.

I know Mart isn't the best of catchers but he makes the lineup more flexible knowing that he can play both catcher and 1B. He could take over Tek in the near future or he could (well, most likely will) play first for now pushing Youk to third(although it kind of makes LaRoche useless).

The best part about this deal, though, is that we didn't negatively affect our pitching situation.

[schillingouttheks]

SI says Tazawa and Masterson are possibilities.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo says (via Twitter) pitchers Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson are in the deal. Gut reaction: nice haul. Mayo also says the two clubs are looking at additional names to add for Cleveland.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/red-sox-to-acquire-victor-martinez.html

[Dojji]

If we're losing a roster player (Masterson) who gets called up to take his place? Bowden? Jones? Tazawa?

[Looch Ness Monster]

We could still trade for Halladay...those are the biggest going I've heard.

[Dipre]

SI says Tazawa and Masterson are possibilities.

Don't they dare!!!!!

[a700hitter]

So who is our long reliever? Smoltz? Hunter Jones?

Does anyone believe that LaRoche may be moved?
I am convinced that another deal is coming. There's no room for Youkilis, Lowell, Ortiz, VMart, and LaRoche, even if VMart catches half the games.

[Dojji]

I wonder if we could dump Lowell on a would-be contender.

Wouldn't mind a Lowell for Young swap, and in theory it saves Texas money they badly need right now. (and yes, I know, we'd be sending additional prospects to Texas)

[Dipre]

I wonder if we could dump Lowell on a would-be contender.

Wouldn't mind a Lowell for Young swap, and in theory it saves Texas money they badly need right now. (and yes, I know, we'd be sending additional prospects to Texas)

Not.A.Chance.

[Dojji]

No, probably not. you're right.

[Dipre]

No, probably not. you're right.

Young's having the season of his career with a .900+ OPS.

But i feel you, getting him doesn't look so bad right now.

[Looch Ness Monster]

With Martinez I have one question..why do we have to "see if it's okay" with some of the players like Varitek and Ortiz that have sucked balls? We should be applying pressure on them and forcing them to perform.

[Dojji]

What a pity Adrian Beltre went down. He would have been just about the ultimate deadline acquisition IMHO.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

First baseman Adam LaRoche becomes expendable for Boston if they complete the Victor Martinez trade; Jon Heyman of SI tells us via Twitter that the Braves are interested. LaRoche came up with the Braves; they traded him to Pittsburgh for Mike Gonzalez in '07.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/braves-interested-in-adam-laroche.html

[a700hitter]

T minus 55

[Dipre]

T minus 55

Fuck.

Get something else done Theo!

[Dojji]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/braves-interested-in-adam-laroche.html

last minute package for Yunel Escobar perhaps? wouldn't that be fun!!

[TheKilo]

If it's Masterson and Hagadone, the deal is OK. If Buchholz is involved, awful.

[Dipre]

last minute package for Yunel Escobar perhaps? wouldn't that be fun!!

That makes sense.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Got this from a poster on Soxprospects


By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Last 7 Days 20 1 4 0 0 1 5 3 1 3 0 0 .200 .333 .350 .683
April 88 15 34 5 1 5 11 11 0 8 0 0 .386 .446 .636 1.082
May 109 18 35 10 0 2 25 17 0 13 0 0 .321 .413 .468 .881
June 100 19 24 3 0 7 21 13 0 20 0 0 .240 .322 .480 .802
July 80 4 14 3 0 1 10 10 2 10 0 0 .175 .280 .250 .530
All-Star 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .000 1.000 .000 1.000
Pre All-Star 330 54 97 19 1 14 59 45 0 43 0 0 .294 .374 .485 .859
Post All-Star 47 2 10 2 0 1 8 6 2 8 0 0 .213 .327 .319 .646

EDIT: For April-July just move every stat over 1 category, it didn't paste properly.

[Dojji]

I'd cheerfully pack Lowrie's bags and throw in Delcarmen or Bowden to get Yunel Escobar here. Lowrie, delcarmen/Bowden and LaRoche is a package the Braves can sell to their people.

[schillingouttheks]

I'd cheerfully pack Lowrie's bags and throw in Delcarmen or Bowden to get Yunel Escobar here. Lowrie, delcarmen/Bowden and LaRoche is a package the Braves can sell to their people.

I agree. I LOVE Yunel Escobar.

[Gom]

The deal is Hagadone, Masterson, and Pryce for V-Mart. Nice haul for the Indians.

[Dipre]

2:03pm: Done deal, says Nightengale via Twitter.

[suns]

Who's price?

(I don't follow minor league baseball.)

[a700hitter]

I'd cheerfully pack Lowrie's bags and throw in Delcarmen or Bowden to get Yunel Escobar here. Lowrie, delcarmen/Bowden and LaRoche is a package the Braves can sell to their people.If MDC goes today, the Pen will be down two guys and the pen is going to get plenty of work. Who would step into those spots?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Bryan Price is the third guy headed to Cleveland.

[Dojji]

My first hunch is Tazawa and Jones, but Iunno, as long as we've still got Paps, Bard, Oki and RR i think we have the pen to get the job done.

[suns]

I'm not sure what to think about this trade.

[Dojji]

Bryan Price is the third guy headed to Cleveland.

A ball arm with some upside. standard third-player fare.

[schillingouttheks]

I'm not sure what to think about this trade.

Maybe you will when 4pm passes.

[Dojji]

If what you have is a veteran bat and what you want to trade is young arms, this is a pretty boilerplate kind of trade to make.

[redsox33]

So what's the Laroche trade lookin like?

[Dojji]

if the Braves come knocking, try to get Yunel. that's as far as we've gotten.

[Coco's Disciples]

I like this for both sides. The Sox got a needed bat and kept their big prospects, and Cleveland got a pretty solid haul.

[suns]

I hope those pitchers can like up to the pressure :P in cleveland.

[schillingouttheks]

So what's the Laroche trade lookin like?

Nothing that we know yet.

[Dojji]

Hagadone:

Good high ceiling arm, but stymied by TJ and still rehabbing. At 23, he's probably going to be a reliever to expedite his path to the big leagues.

Price:

Dominated Greenville, but got kicked around in Salem. 22 years old with good stuff. if he keeps getting killed in A+ ball he'll wind up a Dojji type.

[Rdsxmbnt]

We traded Hunter Strickland and Argenis Diaz for Laroche...I don't think we're getting Escobar back unless Laroche is a throw-in

[Coco's Disciples]

Per Edes, LaRoche to Atlanta.

[Dojji]

LaRoche would be a way to get a toe in the door. Once it was open, we could talk about a lot of guys.

[Dipre]

Hagadone:

Good high ceiling arm, but stymied by TJ and still rehabbing. At 23, he's probably going to be a reliever to expedite his path to the big leagues.

Price:

Dominated Greenville, but got kicked around in Salem. 22 years old with good stuff. if he keeps getting killed in A+ ball he'll wind up a Dojji type.

Gotta admit you have a good sense of humor.

[Dojji]

Per Edes, LaRoche to Atlanta.

I want Escobar, but every fiber of my instiincts is saying this is a prospect or reliever coming back. Maybe a bench infielder who's got low stock. kelly Johnson would be the higher end of returns unless we put up some prospects.

[a700hitter]

What we got Kotchman for LaRoche per NESN

[Dojji]

Gotta admit you have a good sense of humor.

Try growing up all your life as the big clumsy fat loner kid. I guarantee you either have a nervous breakdown or develop a sense of humor.

[Dipre]

I want Escobar, but every fiber of my instiincts is saying this is a prospect or reliever coming back. Maybe a bench infielder who's got low stock. kelly Johnson would be the higher end of returns unless we put up some prospects.

Kelly Johnson is full of win.

The Sox could transform him into an OBP machine.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

On the stream Kilo posted in that other thread, there's a comment by some mlbbowman guy saying 'the Braves are working hard on a LaRoche, contingent on the Sox getting Gonzalez'.


wut

[schillingouttheks]

What we got Kotchman for LaRoche per NESN

I'll take that.

[Dojji]

What we got Kotchman for LaRoche per NESN

So we threw laRoche away for nothing, is that what you're saying?

Dear God, I do NOT want Kotchman on this team... Doesn't even solve the real problem.

[suns]

Will v-mart play tonight?

[TheKilo]

On the stream Kilo posted in that other thread, there's a comment by some mlbbowman guy saying 'the Braves are working hard on a LaRoche, contingent on the Sox getting Gonzalez'.


wut

Mike Gonzalez, reliever I think.

LaRoche was traded for Kotchman anyway. Marginal upgrade, but I do believe Kotchman is the better player.

[schillingouttheks]

This is a done deal now.

Martinez for Hagadone, Masterson, Pryce.

[TheKilo]

So we threw laRoche away for nothing, is that what you're saying?

Dear God, I do NOT want Kotchman on this team... Doesn't even solve the real problem.

What does this mean?

[Dojji]

Uggh. Terrible deal. Kotchman is a very mediocre offensive player. Most of his offense is driven by batting average, and he dopesn't have the contact skills to make that work. Can't get on base and has extremely modest power for a 1B.

It's like having Kotsay all over again except without the outfield flexibility.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

We traded LaRoche for another first basbemen? What? Fucking stupid.

[a700hitter]

Mike Gonzalez, reliever I think.

LaRoche was traded for Kotchman anyway. Marginal upgrade, but I do believe Kotchman is the better player.Much less power than LaRoche, plus I thought he has been terrible in Atlanta.

[BoSox21]

sorry, its been a hell of a busy day at work and I havent followed the net

is it official? Martinez for Masterson, Hagadone and Pryce?

[Dipre]

A) Kotchman is the better ballplayer.

B ) Logic dictates Kotchman will be flipped as part of another deal.

[redsox33]

Are they gonna trade Kotchman??

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Are they gonna trade Kotchman??
They'll try, its been three years since Kotchman was any kind of great prospect.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Are they gonna trade Kotchman??

They better, or else I see no real use in trading LaRoche.

[redsox33]

Kotchman is a little better than Laroche

[Dojji]

A) Kotchman is the better ballplayer.
.

Are you serious? Kotchman SUCKS. He's got an AVG driven offensive game and only hits .270 or so. It doesn't work.

[schillingouttheks]

A) Kotchman is the better ballplayer.

B ) Logic dictates Kotchman will be flipped as part of another deal.

This. This. This. Please, stop flipping out over a trade when it's very, very possible and likely that he is going to be flipped. They are probably not done yet.

[Death]

Good Deal. I never liked Masterson.

[a700hitter]

T minus 30

[Dojji]

Good Deal. I never liked Masterson.

Was dang useful in the playoffs last year.

[TedWilliams101]

Hmmm, I hope we do some else as well. The question that begs to be asked, is Vmart really that much of an upgrade over Laroche to warrant giving up the prospects? Vmart career .464 SLG, .832 OPs vs Laroche career .486 SLG, .824 OPS.

[Dojji]

Two words TW: Positional flexibility. Martinez can bat from the catcher's spot.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Adam LaRoche - BOS

According to Gordon Edes of Yahoo! Sports, the Braves have acquired first baseman Adam LaRoche from the Red Sox.
LaRoche was suddenly left as the odd man out when Boston traded for Victor Martinez on Friday afternoon. He'll play behind Casey Kotchmann in Atlanta, but it's not like he was rolling in fantasy value with the Red Sox anyway.
Source: Yahoo! Sports Jul. 31 - 3:29 pm et

wat

[redsox33]

who did the sox get then???

[Rdsxmbnt]

Edes is an idiot, he also said the Martinez deal makes it "all but impossible" for the Red Sox to deal for Halladay

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Hmmm, I hope we do some else as well. The question that begs to be asked, is Vmart really that much of an upgrade over Laroche to warrant giving up the prospects? Vmart career .464 SLG, .832 OPs vs Laroche career .486 SLG, .824 OPS.
LaRoche OBP: .326
Martinez OBP: .368

[redsox33]

im so confused now

[a700hitter]

Did we get Kotchman or did we just give away LaRoche?

[schillingouttheks]

who did the sox get then???

Kotchman... they made a mistake...

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

wat


Edes is an idiot, he also said the Martinez deal makes it "all but impossible" for the Red Sox to deal for Halladay

lol

[Gom]

If Kotchman is not traded in another deal, this deal makes no sense. Kotchman is a better defender. However, Laroche is a better hitter and has very strong second halves, as seen by his career splits.

His second half splits are as follows for his career:

BA OBP SLG OPS
.295 .356 .544 .899

Bad move by the Sox.

[a700hitter]

Less than 20 minutes to go.

[ms_sox]

I don't know about what's best in the long run, I'm no manager, but I'll miss Masterson. :/ So long dude, you did your part.

The LaRoche thing cracks me up, personally. Player ping-pong.

[a700hitter]

Toronto traded Rolen to the Reds

[rhet]

With 17 minutes to go, I'll still be surprised if Buchholz isn't moved.

[redsox33]

I'm so happy Laroche is gone.

[Death]

Clay is going nowhere. He'll stay.

[TedWilliams101]

I'm so happy Laroche is gone.

Explain.

[a700hitter]

I'm not happy that we got Kotchman in return. Wasn't there a backup OFer available?

[redsox33]

I just hate him.

[Dojji]

15 minute mark.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Clay is going nowhere. He'll stay.
Explain.

[a700hitter]

15 minutes to go.

[schillingouttheks]

I just hate him.

........................ and I hate A-Rod. I would love if he was on the Red Sox.

[redsox33]

yeah but a-rod is a lot better than Laroche

[TedWilliams101]

I would have rather kept Laroche than swap him for Kotchman. I really hope Theo has more up his sleeve.

[redsox33]

I bet he's got something else planned.

[schillingouttheks]

yeah but a-rod is a lot better than Laroche

I give up. Hating a player is not a good reason to get rid of them or want them gone. You're reason for wanting LaRoche gone is not a good one. That was the point.

[Dojji]

I think the clock is just going to tick away at this point.

[Death]

Adam didn't want to be a back-up. CK does.

[TheKilo]

Man, I feel really bad for Masterson, he's being interviewed right now and looks really upset.

[schillingouttheks]

Adam didn't want to be a back-up. CK does.

CK was a starter in Atlanta. He may say he's happy to be here, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's angry.

And no, CK does not want to be a backup. No one does.

[Dojji]

He's a good smart kid. He'll adjust.

[a700hitter]

Adam didn't want to be a back-up. CK does.I'm sure Kotchman is turning cartwheels over backing up.

[redsox33]

its gettin late

[rhet]

If I recall correctly, the Manny trade last year wasn't announced until 4:20.

[Dojji]

10.

[schillingouttheks]

Man, I feel really bad for Masterson, he's being interviewed right now and looks really upset.

Me too. I agree with you.. he looks really disappointed he's leaving everything.

[Death]

We should trade someone for Manny! lol no.

[Dojji]

If I recall correctly, the Manny trade last year wasn't announced until 4:20.

Thanks for that reminder. I thought I was just gonna put a paper bag to my face and hyperventilate until it was over at this point, but now I gotta wait LONGER???

[ms_sox]

Man, I feel really bad for Masterson, he's being interviewed right now and looks really upset.
Can't see the interview but ugh...I don't blame him. :(
That's sports.

[rhet]

Have a beer.
Or better yet, 4:20.

[Dojji]

Have a beer.
Or better yet, 4:20.

I don't have that option. I'm LDS. But I'll try to chill out a bit.

[Dipre]

I don't have that option. I'm LDS. But I'll try to chill out a bit.

Wow, my condolences to you, my friend.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Not to be insensitive, but what's LDS?

[Dojji]

Wow, my condolences to you, my friend.

There are definitely compensations. Now's really not the time to get into it.


Not to be insensitive, but what's LDS?

Mormon.

[Paradisecity]

Mormon.

At what point did Joesph Smith and Mark Teahen become the same person to you?

[Dojji]

*sigh*

Why do you guys think I've never brought this up before?

[He Hate Me]

Not to be insensitive, but what's LDS?

It's a type of drug that gives you hallucinations. Man don't they teach you anything in school anymore? frigging morons.


i'm being sarcastic

[yeszir]

Man, I feel really bad for Masterson, he's being interviewed right now and looks really upset.

The downside of baseball as a business. :(

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It's a type of drug that gives you hallucinations. Man don't they teach you anything in school anymore? frigging morons.


i'm being sarcastic
Wellll I went to a shitty high school. :D

[suns]

I would be happy to be traded to CLE.

[yeszir]

I give up. Hating a player is not a good reason to get rid of them or want them gone. You're reason for wanting LaRoche gone is not a good one. That was the point.

It's also been the mark of some less than stellar posters on Talksox in the past...hmm....

[He Hate Me]

There are definitely compensations. Now's really not the time to get into it.

We've all seen Big Love.

[rhet]

4:03 and I feel like mission control in Apollo 13 when the audio went dead on re-entry... waiting... waiting...

[Paradisecity]

If we didn't spin these moves around into something else Im going to go ahead and say this trade deadline was more bad than good.

[yeszir]

4:03 and I feel like mission control in Apollo 13 when the audio went dead on re-entry... waiting... waiting...

It's the damn ionization of the air

[Dojji]

We've all seen Big Love.

Believe me, it's inaccurate. It was an attempt by outsiders to talk about us. Not that it wasn't a valiant effort, but.. nah, watching that won't tell you what we are.

[schillingouttheks]

4:03 and I feel like mission control in Apollo 13 when the audio went dead on re-entry... waiting... waiting...

lol you're going to have to wait until 5 until it's safe to say that nothing else happened.

[Dojji]

I'm just gonna say it. I don't think there was another move made. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't feel like there was the common cause to get done more than has been done.

[He Hate Me]

Believe me, it's inaccurate. It was an attempt by outsiders to talk about us. Not that it wasn't a valiant effort, but.. nah, watching that won't tell you what we are.

I thought it was an attempt by outsiders to boost ratings by playing to the fantasy that most men have of having sex with multiple women.

[TheKilo]

If we didn't spin these moves around into something else Im going to go ahead and say this trade deadline was more bad than good.

Really? Why?

[a700hitter]

Sox threw in $1 million in the Kotchman deal. I'm more puzzled.

[schillingouttheks]

MLB Network says there are more deals that happened late. Will hear of them soon... not specific to the Red Sox, but they could have more in this set of late deals.

[Dojji]

I thought it was an attempt by outsiders to boost ratings by playing to the fantasy that most men have of having sex with multiple women.

Yeah, it's the oddest thing. Church is still best known for polygamy, but the Church hasn't sanctioned an actual plural marriage since before the Red Sox were first founded. I guess the hardest myths to dispel are the ones that were ONCE true.

Hello? Bigamy is ILLEGAL. We couldn't do our work if we went around doing that stuff. Certainly there's a lot of countries we could never have gotten our missionaries into if we hadn't abandoned the practice.

there ARE a few splinter groups that do it anyway. Those people tend to be a nuisance to the community around them. We help the authorities catch those people when we can, and if we catch a member involved in plural marriage that member is immediately excommunicated.

[Dojji]

MLB Network says there are more deals that happened late. Will hear of them soon... not specific to the Red Sox, but they could have more in this set of late deals.

If it was major, we'd have heard one of those Tweetiots say something by now.

[Spudboy]

I'm sorry to see Masterson go. He's a good kid and a tough competitor. Hopefully he will prosper in Cleveland.

[Dipre]

Yeah, it's the oddest thing. Church is still best known for polygamy, but the Church hasn't sanctioned an actual plural marriage since before the Red Sox were first founded. I guess the hardest myths to dispel are the ones that were ONCE true.

Hello? Bigamy is ILLEGAL. We couldn't do our work if we went around doing that stuff. Certainly there's a lot of countries we could never have gotten our missionaries into if we hadn't abandoned the practice.

there ARE a few splinter groups that do it anyway. Those people tend to be a nuisance to the community around them. We help the authorities catch those people when we can, and if we catch a member involved in plural marriage that member is immediately excommunicated.

Don't you kick their ass in the process?

[Dojji]

Don't you kick their ass in the process?

It depends on the situation. Generally we just wait for law enforcement to take care of the problem. I imagine there are circumstances that may warrant an exception howeve.

[Youk Of The Nation]

4:03 and I feel like mission control in Apollo 13 when the audio went dead on re-entry... waiting... waiting...

Ground control to Major Tom...

LaRoche was here, now he's gone...

Masterson is blue, and there's nothing I can dooooo

[TedWilliams101]

Yeah, it's the oddest thing. Church is still best known for polygamy, but the Church hasn't sanctioned an actual plural marriage since before the Red Sox were first founded. I guess the hardest myths to dispel are the ones that were ONCE true.

Hello? Bigamy is ILLEGAL. We couldn't do our work if we went around doing that stuff. Certainly there's a lot of countries we could never have gotten our missionaries into if we hadn't abandoned the practice.

there ARE a few splinter groups that do it anyway. Those people tend to be a nuisance to the community around them. We help the authorities catch those people when we can, and if we catch a member involved in plural marriage that member is immediately excommunicated.

I just think people need to mind their own business. So long as they aren't stealing, cheating taxes, or being abusive, I have no problem.

[yeszir]

Ground control to Major Tom...

LaRoche was here, now he's gone...

Masterson is blue, and there's nothing I can dooooo


:lol::lol:

Also, this is the Victor Martinez thread, not the mormonism thread. Please don't derail the conversation here.

[Dipre]

I just think people need to mind their own business. So long as they aren't stealing, cheating taxes, or being abusive, I have no problem.

Polygamy is illegal, sir.

[TedWilliams101]

Polygamy is illegal, sir.

Well, yes, but it has nothing to do with religion or values. It has to do with taxes, etc.

[Paradisecity]

Really? Why?

We created a logjam of average players at numerous positions.

I am ok with that when you are bringing grade A players in, but not these guys.

This is essentially the same jogjam we wanted to happen with Tex in the preseason, but instead its V Martinez and ANOTHER first basemen.

Now we have two 3B, 2 C, 2 1B out of which only one (youk) is a standout.



Whoopee.

[Spudboy]

If the Sox are indeed done for the day, no roster moves appear necessary. Two player gone, two players back. My question remains. Who is going to provide long relief for the Sox now?

[ms_sox]

@dojji - my brother became a Mormon for a while. Didn't agree with him. But I can also say that Big Love is Big Phooey. Hollywood, y'know... ;) Me, I'm agnostic/atheist.

The trades...I hope Martinez is worthwhile. We shall see.
I still don't understand the LaRoche thing. Why bother acquiring him only to send away again a blink later? heh

[Coco's Disciples]

The downside of baseball as a business. :(

Yeah. He obviously loved it here and I'd say he was a fan favorite. Best of luck to him in Cleveland.

[Dojji]

Polygamy is illegal, sir.

Kinda funny -- we have this big fight over whether or not gay marriage should be sanctioned or not, but we still don't even allow a heterosexual plural union and we prosecute those who participate in it. I mean the worst we do to gay unions is refuse to recognize them.

Of course, America's capacity for selective outrage is nothing new... it's still an amusing double standard though.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well, yes, but it has nothing to do with religion or values. It has to do with taxes, etc.

You just said that you didn't care unless people were cheating taxes.

Polygamy is...cheating taxes.

[yeszir]

:lol::lol:

Also, this is the Victor Martinez thread, not the mormonism thread. Please don't derail the conversation here.

Please read

[Youk Of The Nation]

Me, I'm agnostic/atheist.


*high five*

[rhet]

If the Sox are indeed done for the day, no roster moves appear necessary. Two player gone, two players back. My question remains. Who is going to provide long relief for the Sox now?

Dicek, Smoltz or Penny.

[Dojji]

You just said that you didn't care unless people were cheating taxes.

Polygamy is...cheating taxes.

The thing is, it wouldn't have to be if the IRS created a form that formally recognized a plural union.

It doesn't HAVE to be illegal, it just is anyway.

[He Hate Me]

Please read

http://www.impawards.com/2002/posters/derailed.jpg

[Youk Of The Nation]

Sorry YesZir.

*attempts to set example*

So, Victor Martinez, huh?

[Dojji]

Please read

Sry. My fault.

[Dipre]

Kinda funny -- we have this big fight over whether or not gay marriage should be sanctioned or not, but we still don't even allow a heterosexual plural union and we prosecute those who participate in it. I mean the worst we do to gay unions is refuse to recognize them.

Of course, America's capacity for selective outrage is nothing new... it's still an amusing double standard though.

Aren't double standards what America is built upon?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

OMFGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rdsxmbnt]

shut the fuck up

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

But my shoulder is fucking killing me! MFG does this hurt.

[Dipre]

shut the fuck up

I expect that not to be directed to me, since i wasn't talking about America the country, but America the continent.

Or do you forget the USA is just a part of the continent, you trolling cunt?

[yeszir]

I expect that not to be directed to me, since i wasn't talking about America the country, but America the continent.

Or do you forget the USA is just a part of the continent, you trolling cunt?

Where the hell did this come from. Are you trying to start a fight just for the sake of starting a fight? What's wrong with you?

[Rdsxmbnt]

I expect that not to be directed to me, since i wasn't talking about America the country, but America the continent.

Or do you forget the USA is just a part of the continent, you trolling cunt?

Did you not see the huge fucking text on the last page? Its over, I didn't read any of that stupid argument anyway

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Heh heh.


Apple of discord... ACTIVATE.

[Dipre]

Heh heh.


Apple of discord... DE-ACTIVATE.

Fixed.

So Victor Martinez is pretty good, huh?

[BSN07]

I like the V-Mart trade. I found out about climbing into bed after drinking all night with my roommate. I like the fact Clay, Bowden, Taz and Kelley didn't get moved.


The Laroche deal is Meh... I suppose he won't have a problem sitting on the bench. Laroche deserves to start somewhere. And can help ATL.



Overall not a bad TDL. And there is still the NWTDL which I expect to be busy with teams not blocking other teams from players, for fear of getting stuck with the players $.

[CrespoBlows]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

[TedWilliams101]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

Hell yes.

[BSN07]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

I stated if it was both then Buchholz in the deal would be ok. Outside of that there are only a handful of guys I trade him for.

The fact the Sox wouldn't move him for Halladay might increase his value LOL

[Dojji]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

Depends on what else we give up.

If it's Buchholz plus the guys we already sent for Martinez plus another A baller (Weiland perhaps?) then sure.


Yeah, it was funny.

Maybe if it was actually original material. Some jokes lose their edge after the first 5,000 times you read them.

[TheKilo]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

Abso-fucking-lutely

[yeszir]

I deleted all of the retarded posts in this thread.

ANYONE WHO BRINGS UP MORMONISM IN THIS THREAD OR ATTEMPTS A BACK HANDED INSULT WILL BE BANNED FROM TALKSOX FOR ONE DAY

Talksox has loose rules, but when I repeat something 15 times PLEASE fucking listen. This is the Victor Martinez thread. Go somewhere else if you want to start religious fights.

[Jasonbay44]

Would anyone have given up Buchholz in a Lee + Martinez deal?

Defiantly.

[Dipre]

Aren't double standards what America is built upon?


shut the fuck up


I expect that not to be directed to me, since i wasn't talking about America the country, but America the continent.

Or do you forget the USA is just a part of the continent, you trolling cunt?


Where the hell did this come from. Are you trying to start a fight just for the sake of starting a fight? What's wrong with you?


Did you not see the huge fucking text on the last page? Its over, I didn't read any of that stupid argument anyway

This.

I passed over the other page.

Made the comment about the double standard, got pissed at the insult, because i could have been directed to the prior page with some semblance of civility.

Anyways, i apologize, but i contend that the "shut the fuck up" comment should've never been made, specially when the post i made was in no way inflamatory in the first place.

[CrespoBlows]

Actually, I would go with this lineup:

1. Pedroia, 2B
2. Martinez, C
3. Youkilis, 1B
4. Bay, LF
5. Ortiz, DH
6. Drew, RF
7. Lowell, 3B
8. Ellsbury, CF
9. Lowrie, SS

Nick Johnson would have been a better move, because the Marlins got him for essentially a mediocre prospect. The Red Sox could have moved LaRoche for an arm, or another prospect for a bigger deal. The more I think about the possiblites, the more disappointed I am with the trade deadline results.

[Dipre]

Actually, I would go with this lineup:

1. Pedroia, 2B
2. Martinez, C
3. Youkilis, 1B
4. Bay, LF
5. Ortiz, DH
6. Drew, RF
7. Lowell, 3B
8. Ellsbury, CF
9. Lowrie, SS

Nick Johnson would have been a better move, because the Marlins got him for essentially a mediocre prospect. The Red Sox could have moved LaRoche for an arm, or another prospect for a bigger deal. The more I think about the possiblites, the more disappointed I am with the trade deadline results.

Johnsonn and his health issues are not to be trusted.

Besides, i'm still positive Kotchman's gonna be flipped in August.

[CrespoBlows]

Johnsonn and his health issues are not to be trusted.

Besides, i'm still positive Kotchman's gonna be flipped in August.

Doesn't he have to clear waivers? I think Kotchman would get claimed. Are you thinking that we could make a deal with the club who claims him off waivers?

[Dipre]

Doesn't he have to clear waivers? I think Kotchman would get claimed. Are you thinking that we could make a deal with the club who claims him off waivers?

It makes sense.

From my perspective, if Kotchman's gonna get claimed, it's gonna be by a contending club in need of an upgrade in their bench.

We could, potentially flip him for a more versatile player with a lesser bat, which is what this team need IMHO.

[BoSox21]

1. Pedroia, 2B
2. Martinez, C
3. Youkilis, 1B
4. Bay, LF
5. Ortiz, DH
6. Drew, RF
7. Lowell, 3B
8. Ellsbury, CF
9. Lowrie, SS


There's something about Pedroia and the leadoff spot that just doesnt agree with him. I wouldnt move him from the two-hole

[Dipre]

There's something about Pedroia and the leadoff spot that just doesnt agree with him. I wouldnt move him from the two-hole

Besides, why move Ellsbury out of the leadoff spot now?

It's not coincidential that as soon as he got hot, the offense started putting up numbers.

Right now, Ellsbury is in "the zone" as of right now, the man can do no wrong, so we should ride that wave for as long as we can.

[BoSox21]

Besides, why move Ellsbury out of the leadoff spot now?

It's not coincidential that as soon as he got hot, the offense started putting up numbers.

Right now, Ellsbury is in "the zone" as of right now, the man can do no wrong, so we should ride that wave for as long as we can.

Definitely. If he's finally starting to embrace the leadoff spot, under no circumstances do you fuck with that. Francona has always said his best lineup is with Ellsbury at leadoff and I agree.

[VA Sox Fan]

Victor Martinez arrives

Posted by Monique Walker, Globe Staff August 1, 2009 05:09 PM

Victor Martinez will make his Red Sox debut tonight, starting at first base against the Orioles.

Today he met with reporters before the game and said he is excited about joining a playoff contender but sad about leaving the Cleveland Indians, an organization that signed him out of Venezuela in 1996.

"It’s tough to leave that team that gave you the opportunity to be a Major League ballplayer, especially when it was my only organization," said Martinez, who was traded from Cleveland yesterday for Justin Masterson and minor leaguers Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price.

Despite leaving the Indians, Martinez said that he is "honored to wear the Boston uniform."

Martinez is hitting .284 this season with 15 homers and 67 RBIs. He is both a catcher and a first baseman, but he said he had not had the chance to talk with manager Terry Francona in detail about how he will be used defensively.

When it comes to working with catcher Jason Varitek, Martinez said he is looking forward to learning from the veteran catcher.

"I always look up to Jason," Martinez said. "He’s one of the best catchers in the game. I always look up to him, and I really look forward to talking to him a lot just to be beside him and learn. I’ll learn a lot of stuff from him."

[SoxSport]

Buchholz is getting bombed again today. Something wrong with that kid.

[a700hitter]

Buchholz is getting bombed again today. Something wrong with that kid.Nothing wrong with him. Right now, he just sucks. Hopefully, he will improve quickly.