Red Sox Owner Henry Calls for Salary Cap

[bobby jr]

This just came out today. Not sure if this is posted elsewhere on the forum, but this is big news.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29266476/

FORT MYERS, Fla. (AP) -Boston Red Sox owner John Henry renewed his call for a salary cap on Wednesday after an offseason in which the New York Yankees added three free agents for $423.5 million....
A salary cap, Lucchino said, is "as inevitable as tomorrow.''....

The Yankees ownership and even major league players might agree to a salary cap, Henry said.

"It depends on the overall picture,'' he said. "How does that relate to revenue sharing? We've gone as far as we can go with revenue sharing at this point."

[BoSox21]

It's not really big news cause it isn't the first time he's called for one before. In one sense, I agree he should be calling for it cause his franchise does have deep pockets and thus, it has a bigger impact that if say the Pirates kept calling for a cap. In another sense though, it sounds kinda petty cause he's a direct rival to the Yankees.

[BSN07]

I think there should be a cap, where there is a minimum and a maximum that has to be spent on the team.

[Dojji]

Dunno bout a cap. At least not a hard cap. There should be a floor though. The Marlins loophole needs closed.

[ORS]

There absolutely should be a cap. Yeah, yeah, it's business, but the business is a sport too. Sports, in every sane person's mind, are played a level playing field. There's nothing level about the current system. Of course, the only way to level it is to expand revenue sharing, and with expanded revenue sharing there should be floor.

[italstallianion]

I agree with the general consensus. I think there should be a price cap as well as a price floor. The Marlins are just as guilty of cheating the system as the Yankees are...

[BoSox21]

Selig will argue that there is as much parity in baseball as there is in any sport so there doesn't need to be a system to control how much the Yankees spend but deep down, he wants to give the Yankees every advantage to succeed because the Yankees doing well on the field is good for baseball in general in a money-making sense.

But succeeding in baseball is still about developing a farm system that can consistently feed your major league team, not spending ridiculous amounts in free agency. Face it, that strategy has yet to work for the Yankees.

[ORS]

I would say it has worked. They are a constant fixture in the playoffs. Anything can happen in a short series, especially in a sport where the most successful teams only win about 60% of the time. Eventually, they'll win in the postseason again if they keep getting there.

[diony]

Selig will argue that there is as much parity in baseball as there is in any sport so there doesn't need to be a system to control how much the Yankees spend but deep down, he wants to give the Yankees every advantage to succeed because the Yankees doing well on the field is good for baseball in general in a money-making sense.

But succeeding in baseball is still about developing a farm system that can consistently feed your major league team, not spending ridiculous amounts in free agency. Face it, that strategy has yet to work for the Yankees.

Depends what you mean with succeeding. Winning a WS?

[BoSox21]

Pretty much, yea. But I know where this is going, the argument as to whether the post-season is a crapshoot or whether it depends on if your team is built for the post-season and that really isn't the point here.

The Yankees have succeeded just as much as the Twins in this decade and there are enough examples that can be provided by Selig about small-market teams reloading with their own prospects to fight any argument about whether there should be a salary cap in baseball.

Personally, I would love a salary cap. I love watching how GMs creatively manuever through a cap in every other sport every off-season.

[rician blast]

But succeeding in baseball is still about developing a farm system that can consistently feed your major league team, not spending ridiculous amounts in free agency. Face it, that strategy has yet to work for the Yankees.

I'd say that the Yankees philosophy HAS worked. The first step in winning a championship is getting to the playoffs, and recently no team has done that with the frequency of the Yanks. Like ORS says, if they keep getting there they'll eventually win.

The league likes to point out that the Rays went to the WS last year, or the Marlins have two world championships, or that the Twins made the playoffs 'x' times, but the fact remains that those cases are not representative of the norm...generally the teams that spend make the playoffs more frequently.

MLB is far from a state of parity.

[BSN07]

Pretty much, yea. But I know where this is going, the argument as to whether the post-season is a crapshoot or whether it depends on if your team is built for the post-season and that really isn't the point here.

The Yankees have succeeded just as much as the Twins in this decade and there are enough examples that can be provided by Selig about small-market teams reloading with their own prospects to fight any argument about whether there should be a salary cap in baseball.

Personally, I would love a salary cap. I love watching how GMs creatively manuever through a cap in every other sport every off-season.

Can't argue with that.

[diony]

Pretty much, yea. But I know where this is going, the argument as to whether the post-season is a crapshoot or whether it depends on if your team is built for the post-season and that really isn't the point here.

The Yankees have succeeded just as much as the Twins in this decade and there are enough examples that can be provided by Selig about small-market teams reloading with their own prospects to fight any argument about whether there should be a salary cap in baseball.

Personally, I would love a salary cap. I love watching how GMs creatively manuever through a cap in every other sport every off-season.

Most small market teams don't succeed without the cap, how are they're going to succeed with a cap and without any revenue sharing and luxury taxes?

Henry wasn't bitching about one before he lost out on Texeria. He also bitched about it back when they failed to get A-Rod too.

[BoSox21]

Ideally I think, you make a floor of $50 million and a cap of $80 million but the PA would never agree to that and the cheap owners would never agree to that

[BSN07]

50M is a good minimum. I wouldn't mind if they went close to 100M on the upper end.



BTW I'd love to see the Yanks try and get under a salary cap where Arod might account for 27% of the total payroll, if not more:lol:

[Dojji]

1) Henry wasn't bitching about one before he lost out on Texeria.

2) He also bitched about it back when they failed to get A-Rod too.

These two statements are completely contradictory.

Do you ever actually preview what you write for internal consistency or are we just your dumping ground for verbal diarrhea?

[diony]

These two statements are completely contradictory.

Do you ever actually preview what you write for internal consistency or are we just your dumping ground for verbal diarrhea?

Yeah okay. Now if you don't have anything to add, then go fuck yourself.

[Dojji]

You're a fine one to talk about non-contributions, my trollbaiting friend.

My point stands though. You'll have to pick one of those statements to tease the tiger this time. You can't have both.

[BoSox21]

its amazing how many threads these days are just descending into back and forth insults

[ORS]

Pretty sure there's a common denominator to those threads.

[bobby jr]

As an Orioles fan, I'm strongly for a salary cap. I'm so tired of looking at the preseason predictions and seeing the NY Yankees favored to win the AL East. I feel that the other teams in the AL East are at a disadvantage for being in the same division with the 500LB gorilla.

The revenues from the new Yankee stadium will only increase the Steinbrenners spending and they will stop at nothing until their team totally dominates MLB. Of course that pretty much has already happened they have been in the playoffs 13 of the last 14 years, and they will continue to buy thier way in until they are stopped.

[Keeper]

A salary cap would be good for the game, but at the same time you'd have a lot of fans bitching about it.

[CrespoBlows]

These two statements are completely contradictory.

Do you ever actually preview what you write for internal consistency or are we just your dumping ground for verbal diarrhea?

His point wasn't that hard to get.

There's a minor contradiction, but that's if you read it 100% literally.

[BoSox21]

Right, he complains only after Yankee money beats him out on a big time free agent/available player and that's the problem I have with Henry being the spokesperson about a salary cap, everytime he does it its done at a time when 90% of people will dismiss it as sour grapes.

[rician blast]

As an Orioles fan, I'm strongly for a salary cap. I'm so tired of looking at the preseason predictions and seeing the NY Yankees favored to win the AL East. I feel that the other teams in the AL East are at a disadvantage for being in the same division with the 500LB gorilla.

The revenues from the new Yankee stadium will only increase the Steinbrenners spending and they will stop at nothing until their team totally dominates MLB. Of course that pretty much has already happened they have been in the playoffs 13 of the last 14 years, and they will continue to buy thier way in until they are stopped.


Actually I feel for you, Bobby Jr.

Even though the lack of a cap allows the Sox to gain an advantage over other teams...i.e. the Sox spent more $ than all but 3 teams last year...it's got to suck to be pretty sure you have no chance each year.

Despite the Sox spending, you are correct to focus on the Yankees...if the 500lb. gorilla wasn't spending $200m+ per year, would the Sox be in the range of $130m? Would Toronto be at $100m? Probably not.

In 2000, the Orioles were 3rd in MLB payroll at $83m. In 2008 they were 22nd at $67m. While there are likely a host of reasons for their P/R decline, part of it, I'm sure, is that they're not going to go out and spend another $30-$40m to finish in third place...the 500 lb Gorilla has seen to it that, with the exception of relatively few years (like the Rays 2008 campaign) you can't compete in the AL East being outspent by $100m.

A cap (I'm being totally arbitrary here) that set team payrolls within a range, say, from $50m to $100m would result in a hell of a lot more parity than the current system. While it would HURT the Sox, IMO, I'm ok with it...I think the Sox would place those resources into scouting and player development and remain successful.

[BoSox21]

It's the fact that the Sox do scout, draft and develop players so well that would lead me to believe they'd be successful even if there was a cap on payroll

[Keeper]

Exactly. Look at the Cubs. Big payroll. But a horrible farm system.

[rician blast]

It's not a "bitch" by Henry it is simply a statement as to the state of the game now and, more imortantly, where the game may be headed.

The very mention of "sour grapes" being his motivation is a bit insulting to the man, and you'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and a Yankee fan to think his point doesn't have merit...actually he's being quite factual. Plus, when you consider that the Sox ARE a team that benefits from the current system, how could it be sour grapes?

As a businessman, Henry would seek to maximize profits. As a BB team owner, he seeks to win. What the current system does NOT allow in many cases is for a FO to balance those two ends.

Sour grapes? Nope.
Bitching? No.
Frustration that he's got to spend $130m to compete within the division or win a wild card because the Yankees, a franchise not currently run as well as the Red Sox, spend $200m+ ? Yup, that dog'll hunt.

[BoSox21]

Yup, that dog'll hunt.

:lol:

[BSN07]

It's not a "bitch" by Henry it is simply a statement as to the state of the game now and, more imortantly, where the game may be headed.

The very mention of "sour grapes" being his motivation is a bit insulting to the man, and you'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and a Yankee fan to think his point doesn't have merit...actually he's being quite factual. Plus, when you consider that the Sox ARE a team that benefits from the current system, how could it be sour grapes?

As a businessman, Henry would seek to maximize profits. As a BB team owner, he seeks to win. What the current system does NOT allow in many cases is for a FO to balance those two ends.

Sour grapes? Nope.
Bitching? No.
Frustration that he's got to spend $130m to compete within the division or win a wild card because the Yankees, a franchise not currently run as well as the Red Sox, spend $200m+ ? Yup, that dog'll hunt.

I tend to think this as well.

Love the hunting dog reference:thumbsup:

[BoSox21]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a few dozen owners get together and have a press conference to explain the importance of a salary cap.

[TheKilo]

While I'm sure his intentions are sincere Henry comes across a bit disingenuous here due to the timing of his announcement (after the Sox lost out on Teixeira).

[Dojji]

The Red Sox are going to miss out on at least one big-name free agent or big-contract trade in any given offseason. There would NEVER be a good time to call for a salary cap on that basis.

Also: didn't Henry own the Marlins at one point? I'd say he's seen both sides..

[BoSox21]

He should do it during the Sox championship parade

[rician blast]

Teixeira's signing was some time ago, but perhaps there was a timing issue involved. The Yankees post-season shopping spree is still fresh enough that it was probably a great time to make the point.

Again, I don't buy into the sour grapes bullshit beyond the fact that the Yankees spending means the Sox HAVE to spend more in order to compete...and this means that the Sox owners can not maximize profits/maximize their ROI as they'd like if they want to compete.

Looked at another way, the Sox have been doing a much better job than the Yankees in recent years of running an organization, but the Yankees spending negates some of the hard work the Red Sox are doing.

[Dojji]

Oh, and anudda ting -- I believe the Sox are currently still 4th or so in payroll having been surpassed by the Mets and Tigers, I'd say we have a bit of room to talk since the league has more or less caught up with us.

I'd say a floor of $60M and a ceiling of $110M would work. Even the Royals have recently demonstrated that they can spend over $60M. Build in a clause like they have in hockey so that salaries on the DL soften the cap a bit.

[BoSox21]

Any owner who can't afford to spend $60m on his payroll shouldn't own an MLB team

[BSN07]

Any owner who can't afford to spend $60m on his payroll shouldn't own an MLB team

Exactly.

[italstallianion]

What should happen with revenue sharing then? I mean in your example...

[Dojji]

What should happen with revenue sharing then? I mean in your example...

Replace it with a more equitable sharing of media money -- that's been needing to happen for awhile, after all the big teams wouldn't draw without the little teams.

[Ray10]

I agree there should be a cap it will prevent teams from spending ridiculous amounts of money for players and it will even the league out a bit more take the NHL for example teams we would never see competing before actually have a shot now it would make for more interesting playoffs that's for sure.

[Coco's Disciples]

Ray10! You're missing 1904 in your sig.

[soxfan17881]

I did hear some shit being thrown Henry's direction over the fact that the two times he's come out publicly for a salary cap were right after the Yanks got A-Rod and right before the new Yankee Stadium is opening.

Colin Cowherd, for one, was pretty hilarious ranting about it.

[example1]

I did hear some shit being thrown Henry's direction over the fact that the two times he's come out publicly for a salary cap were right after the Yanks got A-Rod and right before the new Yankee Stadium is opening.

Colin Cowherd, for one, was pretty hilarious ranting about it.

Colin Cowherd is a pompus ass. Of course, I listen to him too, but he's a jerk.

[Coco's Disciples]

Ugh, Cowherd makes me want to poke pencils in my ears.

[BoSox21]

Colin Cowherd is a pompus ass. Of course, I listen to him too, but he's a jerk.

Key words. You wouldn't listen to him if he played a nice guy

[Gom]

Henry is full of shit.

He said the same stuff when the Yankees traded for Arod. This is after the Red Sox botched their attempted trade for Arod.

Check out this article.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/7097874

Notice that Henry states this after the Yankees make a big splash. He wasn't calling for fiscal restraint after his team spent $200+ million in one off-season for Drew, Lugo and Dice-K. He didn't call for it when he bid more than 20 million MORE than any other team to get Dice-K.

Coming from the Brewers and the Royals is one thing. Coming from Henry...he's full of shit.

[a700hitter]

Coming from the Brewers and the Royals is one thing. Coming from Henry...he's full of shit.I agree.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Cowherd is a pathetic joke and I hate him. That said, I agree with Gom and a700, among others. Henry needs to shut up about this. I'm not completely against the idea of a salary cap, but hearing the owner of the second-or-third spending team in the league whining about it is recockulous.

[rician blast]

Ugh, Cowherd makes me want to poke pencils in my ears.

He went on a rant today saying how stupid the Red Sox FO was for moving Manny. It's one thing to state an opinion, but he was actually wrong on many aspects of Manny's tenure in Boston. He's struck me as one of the few that sports radio personalities that really doesn't care about the facts.

[ORS]

Henry is full of shit.

He said the same stuff when the Yankees traded for Arod. This is after the Red Sox botched their attempted trade for Arod.

Check out this article.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/7097874

Notice that Henry states this after the Yankees make a big splash. He wasn't calling for fiscal restraint after his team spent $200+ million in one off-season for Drew, Lugo and Dice-K. He didn't call for it when he bid more than 20 million MORE than any other team to get Dice-K.

Coming from the Brewers and the Royals is one thing. Coming from Henry...he's full of shit.
Wah, somebody wants to take away our cash binky. Let's attack his character.

Henry made the similar statements as the owner of the Marlins. He's been consistent on the issue, no matter which side of the coin his ownership interest is found. And, it is possible to recognize a flaw in the system, state it is flawed, while still taking advantage of that flaw because you'd be stupid not too. That's called honesty, which I certainly prefer to the nonsense you get from the Steinbrenners about how revenue sharing has leveled the field. You'd see this if you could get beyond the knee jerk reaction to defend the system plays favor to your team above all others.

[BoSox21]

Doesn't it make sense at least to a large extent that the owner of the most successful franchise of this decade is calling for a radically different economic system?

[Dojji]

Actually I think Henry probably has more authority calling for a salary cap than a perennial loser would.

And don't forget what he owned before he owned the Red Sox either. Henry's seen both sides of this particular coin.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wah, somebody wants to take away our cash binky. Let's attack his character.

Henry made the similar statements as the owner of the Marlins. He's been consistent on the issue, no matter which side of the coin his ownership interest is found. And, it is possible to recognize a flaw in the system, state it is flawed, while still taking advantage of that flaw because you'd be stupid not too. That's called honesty, which I certainly prefer to the nonsense you get from the Steinbrenners about how revenue sharing has leveled the field. You'd see this if you could get beyond the knee jerk reaction to defend the system plays favor to your team above all others.

Revenue sharing has levelled the field. Since it was instituted in 2002, there has been only one team who has won 2 championships.

[example1]

Key words. You wouldn't listen to him if he played a nice guy

Then how do you explain the fact that I listen to Mike Turico, Scott Van Pelt, Dan Patrick, etc.,? I'm pretty sure I listen to him because he's the sports radio commentator who is on the radio between 6 and 10am in my area and I drive to work at 7am. I drive for my job a lot so I hear all of those guys.

Cowherd uses absurd mocking voices while making strawman arguments that only drooling idiots would make. His thing is to either make a dramatic sounding voice offering an argument that nobody would make (say, SEC football fan saying "all of our teams are better than even the best teams in all other conferences! Don't mess with the South!"), or having someone who represents a small group of callers make a 10 second statement that is easy to shoot down--especially when he doesn't give them the chance to follow up.

[rician blast]

Revenue sharing has levelled the field.

Good one :lol:

From 2002-2008:

Yanks made playoffs 6 of 7 yrs
Sox made playoffs 5 of 7 years
Angels made playoffs 4 of 7
Dodgers made it 3 of 7 years
Cubs 3 times
Atl 4 times
St Louis 4 times

In 2002 3 of the playoff teams were top 10 in payroll...2003 I believe it was 3 or4.

In 2004 4 playoff teams were in the top 10 in payroll...and St Louis, Houston and Angles were 13,14,15, respectively.

In 2005, 3 of the top 4 payrolls made the playoffs. 5 playoff teams were in the top 10 in payroll. Two more were 12th and 13th in payroll, the lowest playoff team was at 17.

2007 saw 5 of the top 10 payrolls make the playoffs, with 4 of the playoff teams in the top 5 in payroll!

In 2008, the #4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 11 payrolls all made the playoffs.

Far from a level field.

[Coco's Disciples]

Revenue sharing has levelled the field. Since it was instituted in 2002, there has been only one team who has won 2 championships.

Whoah! Who was that?

[soxfan17881]

Colin Cowherd is a pompus ass. Of course, I listen to him too, but he's a jerk.


Ugh, Cowherd makes me want to poke pencils in my ears.


Key words. You wouldn't listen to him if he played a nice guy

For the record, I agree with all of these assessments.

[BSN07]

I listen the The Herd and I like him. I find him entertaining.

The guy is money for College football too.