Sox, Papelbon agree to 1 year deal.

[BSN07]

Per Espnradio, says it's a 1 year 6.2M deal. Biggest ever for a first time eligable closer.

[BSN07]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/01/inside-jonathan.html

[TheKilo]

He was arb eligible this season? $6.2 million sounds about right - Jenks agreed to a $5.6 millions dollar deal the other day.

If he stays healthy all season I'd really like to see them give Papelbon 4/48, using River's latest contract as the baseline....we'll have to see if he's hellbent on reaching FA though.

[BSN07]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3846966

[BSN07]

He was arb eligible this season? $6.2 million sounds about right - Jenks agreed to a $5.6 millions dollar deal the other day.

If he stays healthy all season I'd really like to see them give Papelbon 4/48, using River's latest contract as the baseline....we'll have to see if he's hellbent on reaching FA though.

I like the fact the Sox antied up a bit here, and gave him the largest deal for a CP. It sends a good message to Papelbon's camp IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

not really. They gave him market value since I would say he's at least 10% better than Jenks.

[BSN07]

not really. They gave him market value since I would say he's at least 10% better than Jenks.

Quick glance at the stats says your probably right. He actually might be better the 10%.

[RedSoxRooter]

fuckin nice!

[BoSox21]

From the ESPN.com article


The Red Sox and Papelbon haven't ruled out exploring a longer deal later in the offseason. There are indications they discussed both two-year and three-year extensions before agreeing to a one-year deal.

Seeing as how he's only eligible for FA after the 2011 season, he seems very much intent on hitting the market

[TheKilo]

I do think it was a gesture of goodwill on Theo's part to sign Paps to this deal to avoid arb....maybe Papelbon can return the favor by signing a three or four year deal after this season (or maybe even during, as the ESPN article states).

Nice work by Theo on the contracts of Pedroia, Youkilis, and now Papelbon.

[Coco's Disciples]

I'm pleased, especially considering Jenks' deal.

[diony]

He's under control for 3 more seasons, his prime years. If he wants to test the market after that, then so be it.

[Dipre]

Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman say hi.........

[italstallianion]

For now I'm happy. Pap is a damn fine closer and 6.2 million certainly seems reasonable. I hope we get something done to lock him up, but Papelbon does seem to be about the money more than I'd like so it would cost a lot to lock him up.

[a700hitter]

For now I'm happy. Pap is a damn fine closer and 6.2 million certainly seems reasonable. I hope we get something done to lock him up, but Papelbon does seem to be about the money more than I'd like so it would cost a lot to lock him up.All of them are all about the money.

[BSN07]

For now I'm happy. Pap is a damn fine closer and 6.2 million certainly seems reasonable. I hope we get something done to lock him up, but Papelbon does seem to be about the money more than I'd like so it would cost a lot to lock him up.

Well they either they pay him, or they watch him become a Yankee.

[Dipre]

All of them are all about the money.

Again, Trevor Hoffman says hello.

[diony]

Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman say hi.........

Oh god, probably the best closers in MLB history. Great comparison. :thumbsup:

[TheKilo]

What's your point?

[Dipre]

Oh god, probably the best closers in MLB history. Great comparison. :thumbsup:

I love how you're so smart as to not understand i was talking about relievers who got lucrative contracts after their "prime" as you like to call it and had a similar career path as Papelbon.

But sure, take things out of context, it's the diony specialty.

[diony]

I love how you're so smart as to not understand i was talking about relievers who got lucrative contracts after their "prime" as you like to call it and had a similar career path as Papelbon.

But sure, take things out of context, it's the diony specialty.

Learn to quote then, DipreGay

[Dipre]

Why quote?, you're the only one who makes such retarded statements.

I'd like to meet the doctor who failed the attempt at abortion that ended up becoming you, sir.

[italstallianion]

All of them are all about the money.

Well...yes, money is certainly a factor for all of them...but it seems to be more so for Papelbon than say Pedroia, Youkilis etc....

I mean Papelbon isn't acting as badly as Ryan Howard or anything...but there's something unsettling about Papelbon's fetish for money...

[italstallianion]

I thought the arguing was going to cool down with edhof or whatever his name is taking a break from posting. I guess some things don't change 'round here...

[Dipre]

I thought the arguing was going to cool down with edhof or whatever his name is taking a break from posting. I guess some things don't change 'round here...

Impossible as long as the living turd that is diony and our favorite yankee fans jacko and Gom are around, so get used to it my friend.

[Redguitar985]

Considering he's probably the best closer we've had this decade, it's a good deal to me.

[Dipre]

Considering he's probably the best closer we've had this decade, it's a good deal to me.

Decade?

Look a little farther back, my friend.......

[Redguitar985]

Decade?

Look a little farther back, my friend.......

Haha, this is true.

[TheKilo]

Keith Foulke had a pretty awesome 2004.

[BoSox21]

Well they either they pay him, or they watch him become a Yankee.

The FO can't operate with the philosophy that they need to give out stupid deals to anyone who might become a Yankee

[Coco's Disciples]

Keith Foulke had a pretty awesome 2004.

Papelbon's 2007 was better, though in less IP.

Paps: 1.85 ERA, 0.77 WHIP, 256 ERA+, 84 K, 15 BB in 58 1/3 IP
Foulke: 2.17 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, 225 ERA+, 79 K, 15 BB in 83 IP

[Dipre]

Keith Foulke had a pretty awesome 2004.

Foulke's 2004 can't touch Pap's 2006 or 2007, even if Foulke did have close to 20 more IPs, the peripherals are not even close.

[TheKilo]

I understand, but Foulke was really, really good in Chicago and Oakland before coming here, and ruined his career for the WS title in 2004.

Papelbon's the best, but Foulke was very, very good and I think many Red Sox fans have the tendency to forget that.

[Dojji]

Foulke had a smaller margin for error because of his average fastball velocity. His stuff, command, and execution were brilliant, but once things started going downhill he was already using all the stuff Papelbon has at his disposal to reinvent himself when he runs into the same problems.

[msubulldogs21]

I understand, but Foulke was really, really good in Chicago and Oakland before coming here, and ruined his career for the WS title in 2004.

Papelbon's the best, but Foulke was very, very good and I think many Red Sox fans have the tendency to forget that.

Foulke's 2004 was fantastic. I remember how thrilled I was when I heard we signed him from Oakland the winter before. By the time the playoffs came around he had so much wear and tear on him he looked like he might buckle at the knees at any given moment. If anyone truly sold out his body, it was Keith Foulke.

[Redguitar985]

The only concern I have with Papelbon is whether his shoulder issues will ever come back to bother him. But the team has handled him so well the last two years, I doubt it. He definitely has a chance to be the team's closer for a long time.

Foulke was awesome too when we needed him the most. Oakland signed him last year, but I guess it didn't work out since I never heard anything about him during the season.

[BSN07]

The FO can't operate with the philosophy that they need to give out stupid deals to anyone who might become a Yankee

That wasn't what I was trying to say. I know they shouldn't operate in that manner, it would be very dumb. I was mainly saying they will not be able to penny pinch with him. And if they do choose that path, then they and fans alike should be ready for the Yankees to swoop in on him.


Mo's done in a couple of years, and everyone knows that the Yankees like to pluck players from the Sox. Papelbon would be their ultimate wet dream scenario:D

[italstallianion]

We'll just overuse him beforehand like the Brewers with CC Sabathia...we may even get Papelbon fat as well...

We will make good use out of the Yankees draft picks...:)

[Dipre]

We'll just overuse him beforehand like the Brewers with CC Sabathia...we may even get Papelbon fat as well...

We will make good use out of the Yankees draft picks...:)

Classic.

I like you.

Stick around.

[Dojji]

This Papelbon-to-the-Yankees thing is approaching a paranoia level terror for you bsn07. Just let come what may. RIght now he hasn't and it still can be prevented since we know Theo is willing to pay his prospects to keep them around. No need to be jumping off cliffs before Theo even has the choice of whether to let him go or not.

At about the point we need to make that call, Lars Anderson will be replacing either Ortiz or Lowell in the lineup and that money will be freed to pay Paps. it can be handled.

[BSN07]

This Papelbon-to-the-Yankees thing is approaching a paranoia level terror for you bsn07. Just let come what may. RIght now he hasn't and it still can be prevented since we know Theo is willing to pay his prospects to keep them around. No need to be jumping off cliffs before Theo even has the choice of whether to let him go or not.

At about the point we need to make that call, Lars Anderson will be replacing either Ortiz or Lowell in the lineup and that money will be freed to pay Paps. it can be handled.

Dojji if you pay attention to my posts you should be able to figure out I'm not a"tinfoil on head" guy. I'm realistic though. And if he signs with the Yanks, so be it. I won't stop watching or anything like that. But there are some on here that will probably fall off that cliff you spoke of. I figured if I put the possibility of it happening out there now, maybe the shock will be less if it where to take place.

But I also realize there is the possibility of him re signing too.

Don't kid yourself. Just because that money is freed up, doesn't make it available to Papelbon. The team has the resources to outbid most everyone, but the choose not to. So them having more payroll flexibility isn't that much of an issue. They have a strategy/system, and will treat him the same as everyother player they negotiate contracts with. They will have a value set for him, and if he wants considerably more, they will let him walk. Just like they have done with everyone else.

[a700hitter]

This Papelbon-to-the-Yankees thing is approaching a paranoia level terror for you bsn07. Just let come what may. RIght now he hasn't and it still can be prevented since we know Theo is willing to pay his prospects to keep them around. No need to be jumping off cliffs before Theo even has the choice of whether to let him go or not.

At about the point we need to make that call, Lars Anderson will be replacing either Ortiz or Lowell in the lineup and that money will be freed to pay Paps. it can be handled.Losing Papelbon to the Yankees would be like a bad re-run to me. I remember the trade of Sparky Lyle. In 40 years, Papelbon is the best closer that I have seen in a Red Sox uniform. The theory that closers are overrated applies to your average closer, e.g Brandon Lyon, etc. not guys like Papelbon or Mo Rivera. They change a game. They make your season. When Mo is done so will be the consistency of the Yankees. The Red Sox don't have another pitcher in the organization to fill his shoes. There is probably not another closer in the game to fill his shoes. The FO should make him a keeper if they are convinced that his health is not an issue.

[BSN07]

Losing Papelbon to the Yankees would be like a bad re-run to me. I remember the trade of Sparky Lyle. In 40 years, Papelbon is the best closer that I have seen in a Red Sox uniform. The theory that closers are overrated applies to your average closer, e.g Brandon Lyon, etc. not guys like Papelbon or Mo Rivera. They change a game. They make your season. When Mo is done so will be the consistency of the Yankees. The Red Sox don't have another pitcher in the organization to fill his shoes. There is probably not another closer in the game to fill his shoes. The FO should make him a keeper if they are convinced that his health is not an issue.

This is how the fan in me thinks. I agree the Sox should open the purse for him. This part of me also can't see Theo letting Papelbon close in NY. But at what point do they stray from the teams philosophy?


The realist in me see's the Sox sticking to their guns, even if it mean he's closing in NY.

[italstallianion]

I agree with most of the posts (Thanks for the shoutout DipreG) although I can see Papelbon pulling a Johnny Damon, it shouldn't happen in the near future. I believe that if for some reason Epstein and company let Papelbon go, it would be because they felt something was wrong with him. I don't think they'd willingly let a healthy and dominant Papelbon go to the Yankees.

Papelbon does seem greedier than some of the other Sox players, but again that is just my opinion. I won't worry about it until he actually sells his soul, errhm...signs with the Yankees. For the record I want Papelbon on the Sox as long as humanly possible.

[Redguitar985]

The fact they gave Papelbon the $6.25 million this year says they're serious. I would think Theo would really go all out to keep Papelbon in Boston because unlike Teixeira and Damon, Theo drafted him and he's been a Red Sox his entire career.

[CrespoBlows]

The fact they gave Papelbon the $6.25 million this year says they're serious. I would think Theo would really go all out to keep Papelbon in Boston because unlike Teixeira and Damon, Theo drafted him and he's been a Red Sox his entire career.

I hope that's not the case.

[italstallianion]

Although, one should point out that Tex was originally drafted by the Red Sox...and didn't sign. If only we were able to sign some of the better players that we drafted that got away. Errrgghh.

[Redguitar985]

Although, one should point out that Tex was originally drafted by the Red Sox...and didn't sign. If only we were able to sign some of the better players that we drafted that got away. Errrgghh.

Yeah, but then Theo didn't draft him. Haha, it would've been Duquette I think?

[italstallianion]

Yeah, but then Theo didn't draft him. Haha, it would've been Duquette I think?

Theo did draft Pedro Alvarez though (and he didn't sign) along with 2 other people that ended up being 1st round picks that year. Dykstra was one, and I forget the other. I wonder what our team would have been like if they all signed.

(shakes fist at prospects that didn't sign w/ Boston)

[Dojji]

No one signs all their prospects. You draft some guys just because you'd be crazy to pass on them and let them fall to a rival but there's guys who just won't sign at all because they think they can get a better bonus if they wait a year.

At least we did better than NYY who didn't even sign their #1 last year.

[a700hitter]

This is how the fan in me thinks. I agree the Sox should open the purse for him. This part of me also can't see Theo letting Papelbon close in NY. But at what point do they stray from the teams philosophy?


The realist in me see's the Sox sticking to their guns, even if it mean he's closing in NY.Letting the best closer that the team has had in 40 years and arguably the best closer in the game is not a good philosophy. There are plenty of other overpaid knuckleheads that are not the best players in the game. Those are the guys you let walk.

[TheKilo]

How much are you willing to give Papelbon on a 4 or 5 year deal?

I'd offer him anywhere between 4-40 and 5-55.

[a700hitter]

How much are you willing to give Papelbon on a 4 or 5 year deal?

I'd offer him anywhere between 4-40 and 5-55.He should get whatever the market is for the best closer in baseball, because that is what he is.

[TheKilo]

Rivera got 3/45 last season, and KRod just got 3/37.5.

I think you can get him for 4/48.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Papelbon will be locked up soon enough. Given his age and virtual infallability during the post-season--including last year when he was topping out at 92 vs. the D-Rays and still domintaing, there is no reason he should accept anything less than a Rivera-type deal. Papelbon is what the Red Sox always wished they had. Had it been Papelbon in 1986 and not Schiraldi, I think we can all agree that fabled Mets comeback would have never taken place.

Papelbon should be the Red Sox top priority going forward. I wouldn't be surprised to see he and Bay locked up before the season begins. The Sox took care of Youks and Pedroia..as well they should...Now it is time to lock up the most reliable post-season reliever the Red Sox have ever had. When all is said and done, I believe Papelbon will be considered one of, if not the best closer(s) ever.. when post-season performance is factored in.. His stats look like some of my MLB Show closers..almost too good to fathom.

[BSN07]

Rivera got 3/45 last season, and KRod just got 3/37.5.

I think you can get him for 4/48.

I would think that could work...

Something like,

4 year deal, 5th year option

10- 10M
11- 12M
12- 12M
13- 14M

14- 15M

[Dojji]

I could see Paps going for that.

[rician blast]

I don't think the fact that this FO drafted Paps has any bearing on their desire to keep him...it's his performance that drives their desire to retain him.

[TheKilo]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1152479


The right-hander disclosed that he turned down a two-year deal in the range of $15-16 million before accepting a one-year, $6.25 million contract last month, avoiding arbitration.

“We tried to do a long-term deal, but it never really came to a head,” he said.

According to Papelbon, the Red Sox made the two-year offer after turning down his request for a four-year deal.


“But am I willing to give up money that I deserve? Hell no,” Papelbon said. “And for me that outweighs security. That’s just the way I look at it. I know other players look at it differently, but for me, giving up money I feel I deserve for security, I don’t know about that.”

During the offseason, second baseman Dustin Pedroia [stats] and first baseman Kevin Youkilis [stats] both signed long-term deals with the Red Sox, giving up potential earnings for a measure of security.

Papelbon admitted that, “If I blow my shoulder out, it’s a lot tougher than if they blow their knee out.

“But I’m a gambling man, I guess,” he said. “I already have a little security. What’s the difference between $80 million and $100 million over the course of your career? I’m from Mississippi, man. Rent ain’t too high in Mississippi, man. That’s just me.”

His inability to land a four-year deal aside, Papelbon feels the club has treated him well.

“I can’t say that just because we don’t have a long-term deal in place that they’ve never given me what I want,” he said.

[BSN07]

I'm disappointed the Sox wouldn't go 4 years. It doesn't seem that unreasonable. If they won't go 4 years now in his prime, my earlier statement of Paps going to the highest bidder seems more likely.

[diony]

I guess they don't want to take that risk. They can still afford him year-to-year anyway.

[TheKilo]

I'm not. The Sox know what they are doing.

[BSN07]

I'm not. The Sox know what they are doing.

I gotta agree there. They have earned it. There knowledge of the situation is much better then mine. Maybe they will meet in the middle on a 3 year deal:dunno:

[BoSox21]

They could simply be concerned enough about his shoulder to be unwilling to go past two years and I can't blame them for it

[BSN07]

They could simply be concerned enough about his shoulder to be unwilling to go past two years and I can't blame them for it

And considering he looked a little flat towards the end of this season, this is probably a legit concern. It's probably why they loaded up in the BP. Maybe there expecting to dial Papelbon's usage back.

[rician blast]

We also do not know what kind of $ per year he was looking for in a 4 yr contract. If it was something like $11-12m per year, then the sides are pretty far apart.

[BoSox21]

K-Rod got 3/37, I don't see why Papelbon would ask for anything less

[rician blast]

K-Rod got 3/37, I don't see why Papelbon would ask for anything less

K-Rod was a FA. Big difference.

[BoSox21]

I understand that Papelbon has said that he doesn't care about security as much as he cares about getting the money he feels he deserves, and he's perfectly happy going year-to-year in arbitration until he can be an FA.

So if he'll only sign a long-term deal if he gets the money he feels he deserves, you don't think he feels he deserves at least as much as K-Rod?

[ORS]

Not when the team is buying out some of his arb years that will be discounted relative to the market. He should only get as much (or more) than Rodriguez when it's an apples to apples comparison.

[BSN07]

Stat wise they are fairly comparable players. But yes being a FA and being in the Arb process are very different things.

[diony]

Meanwhile, Papelbon explained why he didn't jump at a multiyear deal, as two other young Red Sox stars, Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis, did. "Cause I'm a gambling man," Papelbon said.

Papelbon said he and the Red Sox were "so far off" that he didn't even consider their offer (or listen to it, he said -- he just took the word of his agents, the Levinsons). When I threw out a $30 million, three-year bid (my suggestion, not Boston's), he said, "I don't even know if I'd take that. I've got to go one year at a time."

Papelbon said he appreciated that the Red Sox rewarded him with a $6.25-million salary, third highest ever for a first-time arbitration-eligible player (behind Ryan Howard and Miguel Cabrera). But when it comes to a multiyear deal, he feels a sense of duty to go for the best and set the standard.

"If you're top three or four (at your position), you have a certain obligation to try to set the market," Papelbon said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/02/20/redsox.camp/1.html

[BSN07]

Like I said before, not trying to be a downer but I still say there is a very good chance at Papelbon pitching in NY. If Mo retires, Joba stays in the rotation, they will be looking for a CP. I don't see the Yankees balking at paying him 15M+ a year either. Something I don't see the Sox doing.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Good, I'd laugh my ass off if they paid a closer 15 mil a season.

[Coco's Disciples]

^ Yeah, as good as Papelbon is, I don't think any closer is worth 15MM.

[diony]

They're already paying $15 million to one. Breaking news.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

And that in itself is a waste of money.

[redsoxrules]

^ Yeah, as good as Papelbon is, I don't think any closer is worth 15MM.

No...but Paps will still get it or close to it . He wants a Rivera type deal

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No...but Paps will still get it or close to it . He wants a Rivera type deal
Okay, so let him walk.

[redsoxrules]

and have who as a closer?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

and have who as a closer?
Someone we probably won't be grossly overpaying.

[redsoxrules]

Someone we probably won't be grossly overpaying.

and sucks

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

and sucks
You don't know that.

[a700hitter]

It's a good bet that the closer who follows Papelbon will not be as good as Papelbon.

[Dojji]

Only because no one is as good as Papelbon.

We'll still have Ramon Ramirez, Justin Masterson and Manny Delcarmen on staff when we lose arb control of Paps, and will probably add Nick Hagadone, Richie Lentz and/or Dan Bard to our list of bigtime arms with possible late inning futures, not counting any free agents Japanese and otherwise we might sign in the meantime.

nd who knows, maybe Hunter Jones progresses passed his presumed ceiling as well. He's can certainly handle the workload (94. 102. and 73 IP's respectively in the last 3 years) and he was lights-out in Pawtucket. I have no doubt at all that he'll be with the team by the end of this year, especially if Takashi Saito doesn't pan out.

If I had to pick which of those is most likely to be a closer I'd say either RamrRam or Lentz. Bard passes both IF he harnesses his command.

[a700hitter]

Only because no one is as good as Papelbon.I don't buy into the theory that closers are not that important. I think a consistently high performing closer will result in a consistently competitive team. When Mo Rivera finally breaks down so will the consistent competitiveness of the Yankees.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't buy into the theory that closers are not that important. I think a consistently high performing closer will result in a consistently competitive team.

Just ask J.J. Putz.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Only because no one is as good as Papelbon.

We'll still have Ramon Ramirez, Justin Masterson and Manny Delcarmen on staff when we lose arb control of Paps, and will probably add Nick Hagadone, Richie Lentz and/or Dan Bard to our list of bigtime arms with possible late inning futures, not counting any free agents Japanese and otherwise we might sign in the meantime.

nd who knows, maybe Hunter Jones progresses passed his presumed ceiling as well. He's can certainly handle the workload (94. 102. and 73 IP's respectively in the last 3 years) and he was lights-out in Pawtucket. I have no doubt at all that he'll be with the team by the end of this year, especially if Takashi Saito doesn't pan out.

If I had to pick which of those is most likely to be a closer I'd say either RamrRam or Lentz. Bard passes both IF he harnesses his command.

This

[a700hitter]

Just ask J.J. Putz.Putz at age 32 has had only 2 very good years, so he has hardly been a consistently high performing closer. Papelbon at age 28 has already had 3 very good years in a row. Putz can't be mentioned in the same sentence as Mo Rivera when it comes to consistent excellence. If your point is that a consistently excellent closer is not a key element of consistently competitive teams, Putz is not a good example. Two good years is far from consistent excellence. In his best year 2007, a very ordinary Mariner team (with lousy pitching) was very competitive-- finishing 2nd in the West with the 5th best record in the AL.

[BSN07]

And that in itself is a waste of money.

You can't use "waste of money" as an excuse for the Yankees not seeking a player. If there is any team that is willing to gamble big money on someone, it is the Yankees.

[diony]

^ Same crap on every freaking post. Dude get over it.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You can't use "waste of money" as an excuse for the Yankees not seeking a player.

lolwut



It would be moronic for the Sox to match a 4/60 offer from the Yankees. I know the Yankees have unlimited pockets, and I know people here don't understand/give a shit about financial flexibility, but that is a fact: matching that offer would be one retarded move.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

^ Same crap on every freaking post. Dude get over it.
Don't talk shit if you don't shit.

[BoSox21]

The Sox have to plan their player personnel moves so as to avoid a direct negotiation against the Yankees. It seems pretty clear that Papelbon will hit the market as an FA soon and it seems pretty clear that the Yankees will be in the market for a closer soon so I'm sure the Sox are planning on life after Papelbon right now

[diony]

Don't talk shit if you don't shit.

Yeah sorry. You seem to know a lot about that. Shit expert :)

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Yeah sorry. You seem to know a lot about that. Shit expert :)
Its amazing how in every post you make, you prove that you're a retarded middle schooler.

[Dipre]

Its amazing how in every post you make, you prove that you're a retarded 3rd grade student.

Fixed that for ya . ;)

[BSN07]

Like I said before, not trying to be a downer but I still say there is a very good chance at Papelbon pitching in NY. If Mo retires, Joba stays in the rotation, they will be looking for a CP. I don't see the Yankees balking at paying him 15M+ a year either. Something I don't see the Sox doing.


lolwut



It would be moronic for the Sox to match a 4/60 offer from the Yankees. I know the Yankees have unlimited pockets, and I know people here don't understand/give a shit about financial flexibility, but that is a fact: matching that offer would be one retarded move.

:wtf: Thank you for using my argument against me...<_<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjHT5GpAYQ This is for you JE:D

[jacksonianmarch]

Like I said before, not trying to be a downer but I still say there is a very good chance at Papelbon pitching in NY. If Mo retires, Joba stays in the rotation, they will be looking for a CP. I don't see the Yankees balking at paying him 15M+ a year either. Something I don't see the Sox doing.

I honestly think our next closer is on our system in the person of Mark Melancon. He's filthy and he's healthy. And he will likely be a stalwart in our pen at some point this season. We have two yrs to groom a Mariano replacement. I think Melancon is that guy

[BoSox21]

I honestly think our next closer is on our system in the person of Mark Melancon. He's filthy and he's healthy. And he will likely be a stalwart in our pen at some point this season. We have two yrs to groom a Mariano replacement. I think Melancon is that guy

And as usual, when the Yankees inevitably fail at filling a hole using their farm system, they'll throw a shitload of money at Papelbon

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt put it past them. But I dont think paps makes it to FA unscathed. He is a high velocity, high effort kind of guy. I dont expect him to be healthy like Mo has been yr in and yr out

[BSN07]

I wouldnt put it past them. But I dont think paps makes it to FA unscathed. He is a high velocity, high effort kind of guy. I dont expect him to be healthy like Mo has been yr in and yr out

Yes, and the Yankees never throw money at injury risks:rolleyes:;)

[Dojji]

And Mo throws 85 of course.

[jacksonianmarch]

Mo has much more of a smooth delivery and he has an uncanny track record of durability. Paps, OTOH, is a high effort delivery pitcher who subluxed his shoulder throwing a pitch. Think about that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, and the Yankees never throw money at injury risks:rolleyes:;)

we know the sox dont. That being said, I dont think we'll need to make that kind of acquisition if the farm continues to churn out good relievers. If Melancon can continue his dominance, then the top spot would remain filled. Its all about filling out the rest

[Coco's Disciples]

I honestly think our next closer is on our system in the person of Mark Melancon. He's filthy and he's healthy. And he will likely be a stalwart in our pen at some point this season. We have two yrs to groom a Mariano replacement. I think Melancon is that guy

Here's what Kevin Goldstein of BP says:


Year in Review: After missing nearly all of 2007 recovering from Tommy John surgery, the relief prospect made an impressive return, improved as the season wore on, and put himself on the cusp of the big leagues.
The Good: Melancon has a plus fastball that sits at 92-94 mph with excellent movement, while his somewhat awkward delivery creates deception. His hard curveball grades out as a 60-65 pitch on the 20-80 scouting scale and can make batters look foolish when it's working. He has a closer's mentality, and shows no fear on the mound.
The Bad: Melancon is a reliever only, though his stuff falls short of being closer-worthy. The Tommy John surgery in his past is still cause for concern, as there is still considerable effort in his violent delivery.
Fun Fact: Melancon retired all 17 batters he faced in the seventh inning for Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
Perfect World Projection: He should be a good set-up man.
Glass Half Empty: He could end up as a middle reliever hampered by arm troubles.
Path to the Big Leagues: The back of the Yankees' bullpen isn't exactly awe-inspiring.
Timetable: Like Coke, Melancon will get a long look this spring, but he could begin the year back in Triple-A to make sure he'll get in consistent innings until he's needed.

I'd expect to see him get a cup of coffee this year.

[BoSox21]

Paps, OTOH, is a high effort delivery pitcher who subluxed his shoulder throwing a pitch. Think about that.

Three seasons ago, I'd say his shoulder has held up considerably since then, no?

[Dipre]

we know the sox dont. That being said, I dont think we'll need to make that kind of acquisition if the farm continues to churn out good relievers. If Melancon can continue his dominance, then the top spot would remain filled. Its all about filling out the rest

The good relievers are just CHURNING out.

Quote of the year right here, everyone.......

Biased much, Jacko?

[TheKilo]

Rivera came up as a starter, Joba can't stay healthy, who am I missing?

[Gom]

If Jacko was on Noah's Ark, he would have called the flooding "a minor drizzle".

Jacko..have you ever SEEN him pitch? I haven't. I doubt you have either. Have you not realized that the Yankees PR machine hypes every potential prospect to inflate their value if they want to trade him later on. I'll reserve judgement on a player until I see him play. You don't...you believe what you read. This is why I'm right much, much often than you are. Stop believing everything you read.

Kid had TJ surgery. He has pitched under 50 IPs in AAA in his career. Appointing him as closer is premature...to say the least. As far as I'm concerned, he's a non-factor until he proves otherwise.

[diony]

Here's what Kevin Goldstein of BP says:


That's the same Kevin Goldstein that ranked Pedro Alvarez as the #4 prospect in baseball. Ahead of guys like Travis Snider, Rick Porcello and others. Pass.

[Coco's Disciples]

Well nevermind then! Melancon=Rivera.

[diony]

^ I never said that. Just look, he ranked Coke and Aceves ahead of Melancon, that's stupid.

Best case outcome: Closer (Not as good as Rivera, never)
More likely outcome: Set-up man
Worst case: Middle reliever.

[BSN07]

we know the sox dont. That being said, I dont think we'll need to make that kind of acquisition if the farm continues to churn out good relievers. If Melancon can continue his dominance, then the top spot would remain filled. Its all about filling out the rest


:lol::lol:

Continue? How about starting to churn out good RP. The best RP the team has brought along, is now in the starting rotation. I mean he will most likely end up in the Pen if he can't stay healthy, but he's a SP now. Besides him who the hell else have they brought in that's had consistent success?

I'm gonna have to agree with Gom on this one. If the Yankees PR machine was a porn star, you'd be the fluffer getting them ready before the big scene.

[Dojji]

^ I never said that. Just look, he ranked Coke and Aceves ahead of Melancon, that's stupid.

Best case outcome: Closer (Not as good as Rivera, never)
More likely outcome: Set-up man
Worst case: Middle reliever.

If Mark Melancon has a closer ceiling then so does, Richie Lentz

And you know as well as I do that no player EVER has a MLB roster spot worthy floor.

[jacksonianmarch]

:lol::lol:

Continue? How about starting to churn out good RP. The best RP the team has brought along, is now in the starting rotation. I mean he will most likely end up in the Pen if he can't stay healthy, but he's a SP now. Besides him who the hell else have they brought in that's had consistent success?

I'm gonna have to agree with Gom on this one. If the Yankees PR machine was a porn star, you'd be the fluffer getting them ready before the big scene.

Brian Bruney was picked up off the scrap heap in 2006 and after being hot and cold for 2 yrs between AAA and MLB, he broke out with a dominant 2008
Edwar Ramirez came up in 2007 and was awful. He followed that up with a solid 2008 with a low WHIP and a very high K/9IP in 55IP
Jose Veras was picked up as a MiLB FA in 2006 and after being on the AAA/MLB shuttle for 06 and 07, he puts up a respectable 2008 with a very high K rate.

Those are 3 pitchers acquired or grown over the last 3 yrs who have gone from being depth to being dependable arms in the pen for at least one season. Thats a start, and considering whats coming down the line and the flashes we saw last yr, it is safe to say that the depth in our system at the pitching position is starting to be realized.

Dave Robertson and his 10+K/9IP as a rookie in the pen. High BB rate did him in, though
Phil Coke and his lights out late season performance
Jonathan Albaladejo's strong start before getting injured

I guess instead of saying churning out solid relievers I should have said, molded 3 relievers who had solid 2008 seasons and have plenty more coming down the line

[jacksonianmarch]

If Mark Melancon has a closer ceiling then so does, Richie Lentz

And you know as well as I do that no player EVER has a MLB roster spot worthy floor.

Why not? He's proven the minors to be absolutely below him. I agree with Diony on this one. Melancon's ceiling is closer. Not of Mo's caliber, but closer nonetheless. I do think that even if the wheels come off, he could safely be a middle reliever in the majors. Thats not saying much.

[Dojji]

One thing going for Melcancon is that he matches his power with good command. That does bode well for his future.

One thing going against Melancon, is that like Joba, his health is always going to be a big issue for him. It's not gonna be like Mo Rivera was in his prime -- he's always going to have to be kept healthy.

[diony]

One thing going for Melcancon is that he matches his power with good command. That does bode well for his future.

One thing going against Melancon, is that like Joba, his health is always going to be a big issue for him. It's not gonna be like Mo Rivera was in his prime -- he's always going to have to be kept healthy.

He already had TJ, came back last year a tossed 95 IPs dominating three levels. They worked with him the entire year cleaning his mechanics. He's also a good athlete with a tremendous work ethic. It's unfair to compare him with Joba.

[ORS]

What has me skeptical is the 95 innings over 3 different leagues. I'll become more of a believer when he can achieve the same success over a workload in AAA where he'll be seen multiple times by hitters. You've seen a lot of this with recent Yankee pitching prospects, particulary IPK. Where guys who didn't get big touting from scouts are rushed up, which utilizes the advantage a pitcher has in first time matchups.

And then you have the whole issue of whether or not when a reliever dominates the IL if it means anything. Mmm'bop (Hansen) was stellar in AAA last year.

[jacksonianmarch]

What has me skeptical is the 95 innings over 3 different leagues. I'll become more of a believer when he can achieve the same success over a workload in AAA where he'll be seen multiple times by hitters. You've seen a lot of this with recent Yankee pitching prospects, particulary IPK. Where guys who didn't get big touting from scouts are rushed up, which utilizes the advantage a pitcher has in first time matchups.

And then you have the whole issue of whether or not when a reliever dominates the IL if it means anything. Mmm'bop (Hansen) was stellar in AAA last year.

Melancon got his due coming out of college. He was considered a first round talent but slipped due to injury issues. Also, the intention was not to have Melancon get above 90IP out of the pen. The intention was for him to be on a pitch count. Thing is, he dispatched batters so rapidly that he wouldnt hit his 30-45 pitch count until innings 3 or 4. He was not being groomed as a closer with the way they treated him. He was almost being groomed as a long man. Every 3rd day he'd throw multiple innings. I guess they wanted to breed endurance which seemed to have been successful for one yr. Also, Melancon's stuff tops IPK rather easily. IPK, on a good day, tops off in the 92 range while Melancon sits there and has a ton of movement.

[diony]

IPK is an ace in AAA.

[Dojji]

And Melancon is a relief ace in AAA.

[ORS]

Again, I don't care how his stuff relates to the massively overrated IPK. I don't care how he got to his inning total because no hitter saw him enough for familiarity. I'm not saying he's not going to be any good, because I haven't seen him pitch, but his stats need to be taken with a truckload of salt at this point.

[diony]

And Melancon is a relief ace in AAA.

Exactly. :)