The call on the squeeze play tagout

[Dojji]

ESPN is making a lot of hay about the fact that Varitek didn't hold onto the baseball after the tag when he hit the ground. Is this a legitimate issue to discuss or are they, as they do so often, just stirring the pot?

Personally, I'm kinda torn. If we'd been the one trying the squeeze, and the catcher dropped the ball after the tag, I don't think for one second we would have been happy if the out call wasn't reversed. On the other hand, the drop happened after Aybar had already been tagged out, so there's a gray area here.

Thoughts?

[Thumper]

He dropped the ball after the tag was made.

Varitek clearly made the take, slid, lost his balance once he hit third base and fell, only then did the ball come out the glove. But he made the play. Aybar was no doubtingly out.

[Dojji]

Do you think you would feel the same way if it had been Napoli making the tag and Pedroia had failed to lay down the squeeze bunt with Crisp at third?

Just curious.

I'm kinda surprised Willits didn't make a better run back to third base. Willits is not slow, and if he runs flat out he forces Tek to throw the ball through him to the third baseman and has a decent chance of getting back safely for another shot at the squeeze or even forcing a throwing error. Willits ran like it was a rundown between first and second, and that's the wrong play between third and home because Varitek isn't going to let you turn around anyway.

[BoSox21]

He had control of the ball when he made the tag and the camera caught it perfectly, what the fuck is the controversy? Varitek isn't a wide receiver in the NFL where you have to have control of the ball when you hit the ground

[Mr Crunchy]

as someone alluded to last evening
when a play at the plate involves the runner barrell assing into the catcher and the catcher gets knocked ass over bandbox but makes the tag and then the ball comes out when the catcher hits the ground on his back the runner is ruled safe...this play is similar but not entirely the same..willets didnt knock the ball out yet tek dropped the ball after the tag...well after the tag and willits didnt instigate the ball being seperated from tek...

[BoSox21]

anyone got the official rule handy?

[BosoxfaninSTL]

I would think the same thing if Napoli had done the same to Pedroia. The replay showed that he was out. The ground caused the ball to come out. Now if the ball came out while he was making the tag, it's not an out. I was just relieved that the squeeze didn't work...

[Thumper]

Had it been on us and Napoli did that, then it's still an out. I'd be pissed but I wouldn't argue it. Tek made a legit out.

[PATS12RULE]

the ground cannot cause a fumble

[Gom]

the ground cannot cause a fumble
Wrong sport, moron.

I used to umpire. He was out. The tag was made, and he had control. He dropped the ball after he fell to the ground.

I wish he was safe, but the right call was made. He was out.

[VA Sox Fan]

Out as a mother fucker. No ifs, ands or buts. Tek was chasing the base runner.

Different from a play at home plate, safe as a mother fucker. Don't usually have to chase too many runners at the plate when they're plowing you down.

OUT OUT OUT!

[Coco's Disciples]

Yep, he was out.

[redsoxrules]

I dont even know why this is an argument . it was clearly out

ESPN :rolleyes: all of their reporters had picked the angels to win this series

[Coco's Disciples]

Hell, Amalie Benjamin was the only Globe writer to pick the Sox.

[rician blast]

I went to MLB.com and looked at the rule book and can find nothing that discusses a dropped ball on a tag...however, they do define what a tag is:

"A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the
ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his
hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or
glove."

Not that we needed it, but by that definition, the mothafuka was out.

[BoSox21]

I went to MLB.com and looked at the rule book and can find nothing that discusses a dropped ball on a tag...however, they do define what a tag is:

"A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the
ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his
hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or
glove."

Not that we needed it, but by that definition, the mothafuka was out.

I would like to know then, like Mr Crunchy said, why a catcher needs to hold onto the ball after making the tag and getting knocked to the ground when a runner goes barelling into him.

[TheKilo]

Because there's a difference between tagging someone and protecting home plate. Home plate is the only base you can willingly block the basepath in.

[Dojji]

I would like to know then, like Mr Crunchy said, why a catcher needs to hold onto the ball after making the tag and getting knocked to the ground when a runner goes barelling into him.

Because the collission with the player is indistinguishable from the tag and is also the moment you no longer have the ball in your catcher's mitt.

If you go flying and hit the ground and only then drop the ball then there might be something to a complaint.

[BoSox21]

If you go flying and hit the ground and only then drop the ball then there might be something to a complaint.

Which is exactly what I'm wondering. If the catcher catches the ball and then it flies out upon collision, then obviously a valid tag wasn't made which is what I understood in Kilo's post about home plate being the only base that can be blocked and therefore invites a physical collision

[Dojji]

I think the difference here is that Varitek made the tag, and clearly pulled his hand away from Willits before he fell and lost control of the ball while trying to get his feet back under him. There was a separation between ball and runner. Willits did not in any sense cause Varitek to lose control of the baseball. In other words, Varitek did not lose control of the ball as a result of making the play, it happened after the actual play was over.

In a plate collision, losing the baseball by being knocked into the ground and having the ground knock it out of your glove is still losing it as a result or consequence of the actual tag play. It's because of the way you chose to make the tag (a head-on confrontation with the baserunner) that you were knocked down and lost control of the baseball. A bit different from making a lunging tag and then not being able to recover because you were wearing catcher's pads and trying not to trip over the baserunner.